1. mikec#IM's Avatar
    First of all tough guy, it was longer than 5 years ago. I have been at my current job for over 5 years. I had the jornada at the job before this. So its over 5 years. Anyway, genius, I had a Casio (I think it was an e-100), before that. Guess what, it had a 320x240 screen.

    Maybe MS has moved to "a more accomodating video model" (whatever the heck that means), but most of their devices still have the same old, tired resolution.


    EDIT * Just checked it out, I got my Casio e-100 in 1999. And I remember I had my Jornada with me on 9/11/01. So that atleast 6 years ago on the jornada, and 8 years on the Casio. Still same old resolution though.
    Maybe you should check Wiki...the 560, which you referenced, was 10/2001, so it may be closer to 6 years, but still not 8.

    You may have had a different Jornada version. I can only respond to your (generally false) assertions.
    08-06-2007 12:57 PM
  2. mobileman's Avatar
    You pays your money, you takes your choices. I have been VGA since 2004, and will go 800x480 by the end of the year. Half-VGA is a yawn.

    Surur

    What device are you getting? Is it the size of a small laptop like your Universal? Not very practical.
    08-06-2007 12:57 PM
  3. mobileman's Avatar
    Maybe you should check Wiki...the 560, which you referenced, was 10/2001, so it may be closer to 6 years, but still not 8.

    You may have had a different Jordana version. I can only respond to your (generally false) assertions.

    I know, wiki is always incredible accurate. I will look for the receipt later (I bet I still have it). I bought it and J&R music world in downtown NYC. If you want, I will email you a scan of the receipt and you can admit you were wrong.


    Speaking of false assertions, you claim you have spent extensive time with the iPhone, which has enabled you to deduct the iPhone is limited in its features and abilities. How much time have you spent with a device outside of the apple store?

    You claim that you have visited websites that don't format well with the double tap method I mentioned. Can you please tell me the address of just one of these websites, I would very much like to try it out?
    08-06-2007 01:05 PM
  4. surur's Avatar
    What device are you getting? Is it the size of a small laptop like your Universal? Not very practical.
    In fact it is.



    And look, it finally has an external screen. And GPS of course. And VGA out. And HSDPA. And a 4 inch screen. And a 1/4 inch thinner than my Universal. Did I mention the 3.2 Megapixel camera? I understand they can record video these days...

    Surur
    08-06-2007 01:08 PM
  5. mobileman's Avatar
    In fact it is.



    And look, it finally has an external screen. And GPS of course. And VGA out. And HSDPA. And a 4 inch screen. And a 1/4 inch thinner than my Universal.

    Surur
    Another Clamshell? How big is this thing? Do have any real pictures, not an artist mockup?
    08-06-2007 01:10 PM
  6. mikec#IM's Avatar
    What device are you getting? Is it the size of a small laptop like your Universal? Not very practical.
    While the HTC Universal is large (and two years old), it's not a small laptop.

    What's not practical is no cut and paste, MMS, and replaceable battery. :-)
    08-06-2007 01:11 PM
  7. mobileman's Avatar
    While the HTC Universal is large (and two years old), it's not a small laptop.

    What's not practical is no cut and paste, MMS, and replaceable battery. :-)
    Nice way to avoid the question. However, it was for Surur who actually owns a Universal and admits (unlike you, who has clearly lied) about never using an iPhone extensively or at all.
    08-06-2007 01:15 PM
  8. surur's Avatar
    Another Clamshell? How big is this thing? Do have any real pictures, not an artist mockup?
    Clamshells are good. They dont need cases. They give you a big screen AND a real keyboard. No real pictures, yet, but they should leak soon. Estimated to be released in the next 3 months.

    Its exactly the same size as my Universal, but a 1/3 thinner. The screen is however bigger, and higher resolution.
    http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/04/h...nd-vga-tv-out/

    Surur
    08-06-2007 01:20 PM
  9. mobileman's Avatar
    Clamshells are good. They dont need cases. They give you a big screen AND a real keyboard. No real pictures, yet, but they should leak soon. Estimated to be released in the next 3 months.

    Its exactly the same size as my Universal, but a 1/3 thinner. The screen is however bigger, and higher resolution.
    http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/04/h...nd-vga-tv-out/

    Surur
    While the hardware looks interesting, since its the same size as the Universal, its still way to big to be an everyday cellphone.
    08-06-2007 01:26 PM
  10. surur's Avatar
    Enough about the competition - this thread is about why the iPhone sucks - and it seems customer service is another reason. Could it be the 'geniuses' are being stressed by people returning the jPhone?

    - - Terrible Apple Service on the iPhone

    juxel 08-06-2007 11:54 AM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Terrible Apple Service on the iPhone

    I just wrote this to the "Submit your iPhone story" for Apple to read and thought I'd share it with the rest of you.

    I'm sure this isn't the type of iPhone stories you are looking for, but the iPhone has changed my last few weeks for the worse. I purchased the iPhone on the day it was released and absolutely loved it until the fateful day that my speaker died. The phone no longer rang when someone called, you could not use the speakerphone, or play music from the iPod without headphones.

    Immediately, I ran to the computer and made an appointment at the Genius Bar in the Mall of America (MoA). My girlfriend and I let the dogs out and then zipped on our way to the MoA. When we got there we grabbed some Caribou Coffee and waited about 3 hours for my name to be called. The genius looked at the phone and saw the exact problem I was describing so he started filling out the paperwork for a repair.

    The day my phone was supposed to be done I waited ever so patiently for the phone call that said it had arrived back at the store. I waited, and waited, and waited, but it didn't come. At 4pm I called and asked the gentleman who answered the phone to check to see if my iPhone had returned from service. He was extremely rude and short telling me that I would receive a call when they got it back. Very politely I explained to him that I was heading to the airport to catch a 6:30 flight out of town for work (if you are not familiar with Minneapolis/St. Paul, the airport is literally across the street from the MoA) and I wanted my phone for the trip. He put me on hold and a few minutes later I was speaking to another gentleman who was very polite who told me that the iPhone had arrived at 10am that morning but he hadn't had time to call me yet, but I could stop by anytime to get it.

    I got to MoA to pick up the phone and the genius who helped me told me they replaced the phone unit with a new one. I was very excited to hear that as I hoped it would alleviate any other problems. He popped the SIM card in for me and I was off rushing to the airport to catch my flight. While on the plane I opened my laptop and restored the iPhone, and started using it in airplane mode to listen to some tunes.

    About 30 minutes later I started to notice something not quite right with the screen. After looking at it more closely there are a yellow blemish on the screen that varied in intensity. Sometimes you could barely see it and other times it was very obvious. The liquid crystals in the area around this blemish were behaving very oddly. From what I know about LCD warranty issues, I know the vendors always like to blame "physical abuse" on it if there is any sign of damage at all so I immediately bundled up the iPhone and kept it same from any potential damage.

    When I arrived home I went straight to the Apple store at the MoA again. Explained to the genius what had happened (I actually was working with the same genius who had sent the previous iPhone in for the speaker issue), and he took it in back to let some other people see it. At the time I brought it to the Apple Store the yellow blemish was in its recessed and barely noticeable state. The genius said he could see it, but from the sounds of it nobody in back could. There is a way to reproduce without fail an issue with the crystals that I showed them too. If you press in the area of the blemish with just a little more force than necessary to use the phone the area turns white and then the crystals slowly fade back into the colors they should be.

    I was informed that this was "within spec" and not a warrantable issue, and if I wanted any other option I had to talk to Sam, the manager on the floor. I tracked down Sam and showed him the phone, explained the issue, and showed him the white fade-in. He initially was very rude to me telling me that over half the phones on the display table did the same thing, but then when I told him to take me over there and show me one that did it and I would shutup and leave he suddenly backtracked. He took the phone in back again, came out about 10 minutes later and told me that this was the best he could offer right now:

    Keep using the phone, if it gets worse, as it probably will you have a warranty for another 11 months, 23 months if you buy the Applecare, and then when it is worse we'll service it for you.

    This infuriated me. It was a completely unacceptable answer for 3 reasons.
    1. This was supposedly a BRAND new phone that I just got after already having a problem with a different phone. There is not even so much as a scratch in the silver or any other sign of "use" on this phone shy of maybe a fingerprint. Also, if I continue to use the phone it's going to get some scratches on it, it might even slip out of my hand and fall to the cement sidewalk and have some nice "battle wounds", but when I bring it back in for repair because the LCD problem has gotten worse the genius is going to tell me it's not under warranty because there are signs of physical damage to the phone.

    2. I was 1 day away from being past the limit with AT&T to cancel my TWO YEAR contract. If I would have went home and slept on it I would be stuck in a 2 year contract. This would have cost me at least $1400 with a $500 phone that has something wrong with it.

    3. I should not get a phone in worse condition back from repair than I sent in. In my opinion a damaged LCD screen is MUCH worse than a broken speaker. I bet the speaker costs mere pennies whereas the LCD is one of the major costs in the phone. This is completely unacceptable.

    Even after telling Sam why this was an entirely unacceptable solution he stood by it. In doing so he, and Apple, have lost a customer for life. I have been using, and advocating friends and family use Macs for years. In high school I was the reason my school switched from a PC school to an all Apple school. Hundreds of thousands of dollars were spent because of my advocation for the change, but now you have lost me.

    It's sad that a company cares so little about a long time customer. I told Sam he had two options from where I stood.

    1. Warranty the phone and fix the LCD issue, keeping a long-time customer.
    2. Allow me to return the phone without the restocking fee because it's entirely unacceptable as is, also keeping a long-time customer.

    He chose option 3. Allowing me to return the phone but still assessing me the restocking fee. I told him that this was unacceptable and immediately called American Express (a company that actually cares about their customers) to contest the charge. I explained to the lady what had happened and that they wouldn't service the phone or allow me to return it without the restocking fee and American Express immediately took it off my bill and opened their investigation.

    I'm glad there is still at least one company out there that realizes that THE CUSTOMER COMES FIRST.
    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=337965

    Surur
    08-06-2007 01:31 PM
  11. marcol's Avatar
    While the hardware looks interesting, since its the same size as the Universal, its still way to big to be an everyday cellphone.
    Agreed. It's a little more than twice the volume of an iPhone or a Touch.
    08-06-2007 01:32 PM
  12. mikec#IM's Avatar
    I know, wiki is always incredible accurate. I will look for the receipt later (I bet I still have it). I bought it and J&R music world in downtown NYC. If you want, I will email you a scan of the receipt and you can admit you were wrong.


    Speaking of false assertions, you claim you have spent extensive time with the iPhone, which has enabled you to deduct the iPhone is limited in its features and abilities. How much time have you spent with a device outside of the apple store?

    You claim that you have visited websites that don't format well with the double tap method I mentioned. Can you please tell me the address of just one of these websites, I would very much like to try it out?
    If Wiki don't work for ya, how about HP's own press releases?

    http://forums.imore.com/e?link=http%...token=MSFgJeSS

    Oh, I can't hear it now...it's conspiracy by HP to discredit you...JFC, you can't even admit when you are wrong.

    Please dig up your photoshopped receipt so we can all have a laugh.

    Re: the iPhone time outside an Apple Store, that would be 39+ hours. Quite a fair amount of time to get to know a device.

    Not sure the relevance...they are quite happy to let people use them for as long as they like and test out the features (and lack thereof).

    Re: website that are issues; I'm not sure that I said "don't format well" (I could be wrong), but the rendering lends itself to a _lot_ of gesturing, doubletapping, and so forth. Amazon for one.

    The sites look good, but the navigation less something to be desired.

    Again, it's not so much the web site, but the interface/rendering. It's nice, but still makes browsing a very active exercise (compared to other smartphones).

    It does look pretty, but I sure get tired of finger-flick scrolling when d-pad taps are a lot faster and more efficient.
    08-06-2007 01:32 PM
  13. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Nice way to avoid the question. However, it was for Surur who actually owns a Universal and admits (unlike you, who has clearly lied) about never using an iPhone extensively or at all.
    You claim I lie, but you have no proof.

    You lied about 1.) how long the Jornada 560 has been out, and 2.)purchasing a Jornada 560 before they were released. You have been proven a liar by HP's own press releases.

    You subscribe to ollie logic that you have to own a device to comment on it.

    I don't think I avoided any questions. Practicality, like "needs", is in the eye of the beholder.
    08-06-2007 01:36 PM
  14. vinman's Avatar
    You haters are funny. I've had my iPhone for 3 weeks now, and I haven't even once missed the Treo line, the 8125, or the 8525. It does everything I need it to do and quite well, too. As far as it being "smart", the fact that the software runs (on mine, anyway) bug and reset free makes it a fair bit smarter than the aforementioned devices.
    08-06-2007 01:39 PM
  15. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Enough about the competition - this thread is about why the iPhone sucks - and it seems customer service is another reason. Could it be the 'geniuses' are being stressed by people returning the jPhone?


    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=337965

    Surur
    That's right, Amex to the rescue.

    I think those "geniuses" (can you think of a more arrogrant label for your staff?) are feeling the heat from people that didn't like paying $600 for the beta iPhone. And the "masses" this appeals to are maybe a bit too unwashed for Apple Customer Care (in some areas; some people are having zero issues with Apple Support.)
    08-06-2007 01:42 PM
  16. mobileman's Avatar
    If Wiki don't work for ya, how about HP's own press releases?

    http://forums.imore.com/e?link=http%...token=BXZ7UeiY

    Oh, I can't hear it now...it's conspiracy by HP to discredit you...JFC, you can't even admit when you are wrong.

    Please dig up your photoshopped receipt so we can all have a laugh.

    Re: the iPhone time outside an Apple Store, that would be 39+ hours. Quite a fair amount of time to get to know a device.

    Not sure the relevance...they are quite happy to let people use them for as long as they like and test out the features (and lack thereof).

    Re: website that are issues; I'm not sure that I said "don't format well" (I could be wrong), but the rendering lends itself to a _lot_ of gesturing, doubletapping, and so forth. Amazon for one.

    The sites look good, but the navigation less something to be desired.

    Again, it's not so much the web site, but the interface/rendering. It's nice, but still makes browsing a very active exercise (compared to other smartphones).

    It does look pretty, but I sure get tired of finger-flick scrolling when d-pad taps are a lot faster and more efficient.
    Now I know you have barely used an iPhone. Amazon looks and works great on the iPhone. It fits to the page almost perfectly. You might need to scroll a little up or down, but thats it. It is far from a "very active excercise" and is alot better than any other browser at showing the true amazon website. I invite everybody to go to an apple store an try it out themselves. Now you can all see what I have been saying all along, MikeC has never used an iPhone for more than maybe a few moments in the apple store. Its sad when people like Mike need to resort to lying to try to further their opinions.
    08-06-2007 01:43 PM
  17. mobileman's Avatar
    That's right, Amex to the rescue.

    And the "masses" this appeals to are maybe a bit too unwashed for Apple Customer Care (in some areas; some people are having zero issues with Apple Support.)

    Can somebody please decipher what this means. MikeC, just because something sounds logical in your head while you are typing it, doesn't mean the rest of the world will understand.
    08-06-2007 01:45 PM
  18. mikec#IM's Avatar
    You haters are funny. I've had my iPhone for 3 weeks now, and I haven't even once missed the Treo line, the 8125, or the 8525. It does everything I need it to do and quite well, too. As far as it being "smart", the fact that the software runs (on mine, anyway) bug and reset free makes it a fair bit smarter than the aforementioned devices.
    Glad it's working for you.

    Wait...did you say you don't miss one handed use? This implies you ned two hand to use it...wait a sec, mobileman was saying it works perfectly well one-handedly....hmmm. I believe you are stating the trvth, as MM has a poor track record in that area....

    For me, one handed operation is a must have; that is why, regardless of how pretty and cool those clamshells are, I will have to pass on them.
    08-06-2007 01:46 PM
  19. marcol's Avatar
    Looking at this some more:



    and comparing to the Universal:



    does the Omini lack the swivelling screen? So no tablet mode? That would probably account for the lack of a D-pad on the screen half. Also seems to lack a speaker on that bit? Can you even use this as a phone without a headset?
    08-06-2007 01:49 PM
  20. mobileman's Avatar
    Glad it's working for you.

    Wait...did you say you don't miss one handed use? This implies you ned two hand to use it...wait a sec, mobileman was saying it works perfectly well one-handedly....hmmm. I believe you are stating the trvth, as MM has a poor track record in that area....

    For me, one handed operation is a must have; that is why, regardless of how pretty and cool those clamshells are, I will have to pass on them.

    I said what? Its hard to type with one hand.
    08-06-2007 01:51 PM
  21. surur's Avatar
    For me, one handed operation is a must have; that is why, regardless of how pretty and cool those clamshells are, I will have to pass on them.
    I have a pretty sedentary job. Having my PDA open on my desk is pretty useful to me.

    Surur
    08-06-2007 01:52 PM
  22. mobileman's Avatar
    Looking at this some more:



    and comparing to the Universal:



    does the Omini lack the swivelling screen? So no tablet mode? That would probably account for the lack of a D-pad on the screen half. Also seems to lack a speaker on that bit? Can you even use this as a phone without a headset?
    Thats fine for Surur, he needed his bluetooth headset anyway to tell him who the incoming call was from.
    08-06-2007 01:53 PM
  23. surur's Avatar
    Looking at this some more:



    and comparing to the Universal:



    does the Omini lack the swivelling screen? So no tablet mode? That would probably account for the lack of a D-pad on the screen half. Also seems to lack a speaker on that bit? Can you even use this as a phone without a headset?
    I'm relatively sure it swivels, and insiders who saw it say the same. I think it has a trackball below the screen (that red dot) and probably uses the touchflo-type screen of the HTC Touch.

    Surur
    08-06-2007 01:55 PM
  24. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Now I know you have barely used an iPhone. Amazon looks and works great on the iPhone. It fits to the page almost perfectly. You might need to scroll a little up or down, but thats it. It is far from a "very active excercise" and is alot better than any other browser at showing the true amazon website. I invite everybody to go to an apple store an try it out themselves. Now you can all see what I have been saying all along, MikeC has never used an iPhone for more than maybe a few moments in the apple store. Its sad when people like Mike need to resort to lying to try to further their opinions.
    Your definition of "almost" or "a little" must be "plus or minus two standard deviations" ;-)

    The site looks good, but again, the navigation is gesture intensive (for me). I'm not saying it's horrible, just more work.

    I would agree (as I said in the other posts), the site itself looks good, and mobile Safari renders the "normal" pages better than any other device. (i.e. more accurate to what I see on a PC screen).

    MM, you continue to call me a liar, when in fact you the only only who has lied. I offer opinions, which are not lies. You make impossible claims (like the Jornada 560 being 8 years old and buying one before it was released, which are lies.) You can continue to be a tool in your posts, but it will not make you correct.

    I'm sure people can decide on their own with the iPhone.

    I'm not sure if the iPhone sucks, but I certainly can tell some iPhoniacs do.
    08-06-2007 01:56 PM
  25. mobileman's Avatar
    You claim I lie, but you have no proof.

    You lied about 1.) how long the Jornada 560 has been out, and 2.)purchasing a Jornada 560 before they were released. You have been proven a liar by HP's own press releases.

    You subscribe to ollie logic that you have to own a device to comment on it.

    I don't think I avoided any questions. Practicality, like "needs", is in the eye of the beholder.

    You lied about the iPhone not being able to display amazons website well. You lied about other browsers being able to do it better. Im very sure you lied about using an iPhone extensively. Maybe in your next 39 hour mega iPhone testing, you can check amazons website again, and you will see you are clearly mistaken. Any other websites you can think of, that I can test?
    08-06-2007 01:56 PM
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