1. CountBuggula's Avatar
    If only the whole world could forget Youtube..."what a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful world it would be..."
    Haha, yeah I know what you mean. I'm just saying Archie tried to say it was one of those "only in iPhone" things and it's not.

    MikeC, I was meaning that you pointed out all the logical fallacies in Archie's response. I'd say that probably a good 90% of all internet forum debates/arguments (especially the ugly ones about religion and politics that get people so inflamed) consist of nothing but logical fallacies on one or both sides.
    06-29-2007 02:36 PM
  2. bruckwine's Avatar
    I took $h!t for my sarcasm lets hear it for this one people!

    My nephew suffer from Downs syndrome. :thumbsdn:
    I agree..no need to get personal braj! if you want keep throwing that jab, but no need to go the otehr way. As to the rest of the thread..no comment, this is a repeat and repeats are a bit boring! I thought all teh threads were shunted to this site? Why not go back to the original thred and edit that post archie?!?!
    06-29-2007 02:54 PM
  3. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Haha, yeah I know what you mean. I'm just saying Archie tried to say it was one of those "only in iPhone" things and it's not.

    MikeC, I was meaning that you pointed out all the logical fallacies in Archie's response. I'd say that probably a good 90% of all internet forum debates/arguments (especially the ugly ones about religion and politics that get people so inflamed) consist of nothing but logical fallacies on one or both sides.
    Gotcha. Thanks.
    06-29-2007 02:55 PM
  4. braj's Avatar
    I took $h!t for my sarcasm lets hear it for this one people!

    My nephew suffer from Downs syndrome. :thumbsdn:
    I worked with people from the Hope foundation and I'm not trying to be callous. Sure, Downs doesn't apply but Archie has some problems beyond lying. I don't think calling him a liar is fair to his condition. If could help himself then ok, but I don't think he can.
    06-29-2007 03:39 PM
  5. vw2002's Avatar
    I used to throw a jab at Archie once in a while myself, but it's pretty clear to me he has autism, Downs, or something. We should all try and be nicer to him, I don't think he can help himself.
    You appear to be pretty liberal with your insults as well...
    06-29-2007 04:03 PM
  6. braj's Avatar
    You appear to be pretty liberal with your insults as well...
    Yep, sorry I should have left out any references to the mentally impaired.
    06-29-2007 04:40 PM
  7. cmaier's Avatar
    Look, I should start out by saying i'm ordering two iphones on-line tonight, but your list is pretty bad.

    Only phone that's completely Mac friendly. In todays market, this probably should be considered revolutionary (only feature to be read with a snide remark).

    Can you be more specific? How does the mac interface with iphone differently than with other phones? There are no other phones that can sync to a mac?

    First and only phone to provide a revolutionary multi-touch interface
    1. Two-finger stretching gesture
    2. Two-finger tap-to-zoom out gesture
    3. Two-finger pinching gesture
    4. One-finger double-tap-to-zoom in gesture
    5. One-finger scrolling gesture
    6. One-finger flicking gesture
    7. One-finger swiping/sweeping (depends on the context) gesture


    Several of the one-finger gestures you mention above exist in some programs on my treo 650. True, they are not all supported system-wide, however.

    Revolutionary fingertip editing lets you touch and hold the screen to get a zoomed in area of text for precise cursor placement with your finger.

    True, but that's only needed because there is no physical keypad. So it's more like compensation for lack of a feature than it is a feature in its own right.

    Revolutionary keyboard - I know a little bit about what they are doing to make this unique keyboard a success. Every little space on that screen is tracking and measuring and relating to every other little space. There is a great deal of processing power required JUST for the simple act of typing. And reading how your finger hits the screen and what part of your finger hits first and the total amount of space that it hits all in an effort to account for inaccuracies. There is a lot of research that has been done here. They even take into account a person's inability to accurately predict what part of their finger actually hits the screen. It seems that we fail to take into account the curve of our finger and how it actually hits the screen based on the overhead view we have in watching the screen as we type. Then of course there is the software based auto-correcting type of feature that analyzes which keys you MIGHT have meant to hit and figures out the word you wanted. And then of course word prediction. To this end, word prediction itself is also used in conjunction with a process of dynamically enlarging tap zones behind the scenes for virtually larger keys.

    Ditto. If it had a physical keypad it wouldn't need all this stuff. Also, it would be nice if the "revolutionary keyboard" had period, comma (at the very least) on the main keyboard, or if it worked in all applications when rotated.

    Revolutionary visual and user interface cues serve most appropriately.

    Is that an English sentence? Yes, the interface is cool (is that what you are trying to say?)

    Only phone to have a revolutionary one-button design - that lone button on the bottom of the phone will take you back to the home screen, provide quick accessibility to the iPhone's list of applications, provide a quick escape from the depths of any application or settings screen and act as a clean up/clean start tool - all with one quick press.

    It actually has more than one button (sleep, etc.) But why is "one-button" so great? Would a tv remote with one button be good? Is the mac mouse with one button great? I'd rather have TWO buttons, at least - with one dedicated to answering/hanging up the phone.

    Only phone to employ context sensitive scroll bars that only appear when needed. No valuable screen real-estate is taken away and it is cleanly implemented.

    Not even a little bit true. Palm has had this for years. The scroll arrows appear only when needed.

    Only phone to have a large 3.5 inch screen which utilizes every pixel for the camera view screen.

    I believe that. Though i'd rather have better picture quality than a nice viewfinder.

    In a revolutionary move, Apple incorporates a high resolution, 160 pixel per inch screen that provides the most readable text (fonts) of any handheld device ever made. To explain, Apple uses a sub-pixel display technology algorithm that preserves the design of the typeface. Other OSes force the letter shapes into pixel boundaries to prevent blur and improve readability, but at high resolutions like 160 pixels per inch, this methodology suffers; and as a result, the true typeface character is lost. This results in two strikes against the other's methodology, which is designed for the lower resolution screens. Thank you resolution independence.

    1) where'd you get this info?
    2) how is "sub-pixel display technology" different than ClearType (which is a "sub-pixel display technology").
    3) "most readable...of any handheld device ever made" - I assume you mean just phones. And how do you know it is more readable than a palm *p with 320x320 resolution on a smaller screen?

    Thinnest "smartphone" available anywhere (and no big protrusions).

    Doubt it, but whatever.

    Only phone manufacturer to write and support the revolutionary software for provisioning AND revocation. In fact, they have their own provisioning servers. The benefits are many but it quite obviously saves time and allows the consumer to activate without hassle from Sales people.

    Don't know if it will save time (on my previous sprint phones, i provisioned over the air by phone within minutes of calling), but I'm all for this change.

    Apple provides the quickest method available to accomplish phone number transfers. Only server software to accomplish phone number transfers in 3 minutes rather than 3 days. This too can be accomplished in the privacy of your own home.

    Even apple says it can take "hours" on their web site, not "minutes." Which is how long it generally takes for everyone else too (nightmare stories notwithstanding.)

    Only phone to employ Oracle's open standard, OMA and IETF based "Push-IMAP" email.

    This is simply not true, and you know it.

    1) Oracle has nothing to do with it
    2) "push-imap" is just imap idle, and i've been doing that on my palm for years with chatter. There is NOTHING different about apple's "push-imap" (as you call it.) It's just supporting the IDLE feature in the IMAP standard.


    Only phone (mobile device) made that gives access to streaming and scalable content from YouTube

    Other than any other phone with a web browser.

    Only phone to support open source, standards-based CalDAV calendaring solution for workgroups.

    Also not true.

    Subscription accounting for a phone to account for upgrades and additions over the course of 2 years. A promise and dedication.

    Perhaps you could rephrase this in English?

    First phone to not be subsidized through carrier. No rebate crap or distracting hand waving to save money in voice and data plans. No game or hoops to jump through. Just straight business.

    Heh heh. You have to be kidding. You think it's GOOD that you have to pay full price, and then have to pay $175 if you return it? That's funny.

    Only phone that doesn't have carrier logos plastered all over it.

    No it's not. Just buy any unlocked phone. Palm has been selling them that way for years.

    First company to actually sell a phone based on a subscription model and not a subsidy model. They don't leave the customer with an iPhone that grows progressively more obsolete over two years. Instead, they will release updates and applications that users can download to customize and enhance their phone. No fake promises like other phone manufacturers. They have no reason to upgrade the phone and the software because it is already sold, and they rarely do. When they do offer a firmware upgrade, it proves to be so difficult to perform that many never do it. And many never realize they can. Apple's unique approach assures its availability to all.

    I hope so, but history is not on your side. I have an ipod photo, and as soon as the next generation came out, no more updates (of note).

    Apple is the only company that has designed a mobile smartphone for service provider but catering to the customer rather than the provider.

    Gibberish.

    Only phone to provide seamless switching between EDGE and Wi-Fi. Continual surveying of wi-fi availability. Previously joined networks can be set up to quietly, seamless and automatically connected to.

    Maybe true. Anyone know if it supports wpa/tkip? Leap?

    Only phone manufacturer ever to influence a carrier to expand time slots available to data services network.

    I suppose.

    The stability and reliability and security that comes with OS X and LLVM.

    Um. A complicated operating system is going to be a lot less secure and reliable than a special-purpose operating system, dude. And i've written an OS or two, so I'd know.

    Incredible scrolling with rubber band effects mirroring real physics effects provide for easy recognition and virtual orientation (eh, its easy to follow and understand what is going on).

    I believe you are repeating your previous user interface argument.

    Revolutionary web interface helps to provide THE BEST overall smartphone browsing experience.

    Arguably.

    Easiest conference call management I have ever seen.

    I don't know what you "have ever seen" but I get your point.

    Revolutionary conference call management provides the most flexibility of any smartphone available. Connect up to 6 people easily. Even set up sub-conferencing.

    ditto

    Coolest implementation of Google Maps I have ever seen.

    on a phone, i assume? I'd trade the prettyness for the gps of the blackberry, though.

    Only phone available that has a context sensitive keyboard that pops up only when needed and adapts functionality based on situation; no need to request the keyboard. This is extremely useful and really well done.

    Not true. My old windows mobile device popped up softkeyboards (or handwriting boxes) when needed, based on the situation.

    Only mobile phone to incorporate revolutionary concepts like "touching your music" and "Visual Voicemail" (random access). Greatly improves usability.

    Yeah, again with the user interface.

    Only phone to have voice mail scrubbing. Lets you scrub through the voice mail timeline to quickly get to where you want.

    You are restating what you just said.

    Revolutionary method of having voice mail sent to you - like push e-mail. You can listen to and review your voice mail on a train or on a plane, without the need of carrier reception.

    Is that true?

    Revolutionary "Coverflow" browsing of music and media. Plus, you can flick an album and it spins around to reveal the song list to choose from on the back... just like physical albums.

    Yes, very cool. But, again, "user interface."

    Revolutionary, context sensitive, smoothly transforming control surfaces provide an intuitive user interface.

    How many ways are you going to say "user interface?"

    Only phone to support such a wide variety of media formats out of the box: AAC, Protected AAC, MP3, VBR, Audible (formats 1, 2, and 3), Apple Lossless, AIFF, WAV, H.264 video, multiple levels of LC H.264 Baseline, MPEG-4 video and of course .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats.

    Audio: nice selection
    Video: crap selection

    Only smartphone to have antenna located in the back part of the phone at the very bottom. Very considerate for those with radiation concerns. Never understood why manufacturers continue placing the antenna as close to your head as possible.

    As an electrical engineer, and as someone who's brain actually fills his entire head, I can assure you this makes little difference.

    Only phone to have entire screen faade flat so that it can be quickly and simply wiped clean with its unique edgeless, no-bezel design. This is to say nothing of the specially selected glass finish chosen to reduce finger prints.

    Prada? Also, it needs to have special glass because most other phones are not designed to be touched with fingers. I don't give them credit for fixing a problem they introduced in the first place.

    Only phone to have a glass screen encompassing the entire front surface for higher scratch resistance as well as improved optical clarity.

    Repeat

    Revolutionary battery technology will provide up to 6 hours of internet use, 7 hours of video playback, 8 hours of talk time, 24 hours of audio playback, 250 hours of standby time This is unbelievable performance.

    My current phone will go longer than that, except for audio playback.

    Revolutionary approach in attracting developers based on AJAX has proven to attract the largest developer crowd ever for a single device.

    I believe palm, symbian, and windows mobile all have larger "developer crowds" at this juncture, dude. And from an engineering and use perspective, having to do everything over the network is horrible. I can't even play solitaire on the thing unless i write an application to deal with every move over the network? ridiculous.

    Only smartphone to ever incorporate such a high number of great ideas and processes assembled into one device. It has proven to make the iPhone into what many critics, writers, analysts and consumers consider high-tech jewelry that holds an incredible allure.

    But missing:

    -video record
    - bluetooth stereo
    - 3G
    - edit office docs (and is there even a way to put docs on the phone to view without mailing them to yourself?)
    - games
    - flash, java
    - exchange protocol (maybe coming)

    [/QUOTE]


    Here's my list:

    -visual voicemail
    -UI details
    -browser
    06-29-2007 05:46 PM
  8. bruckwine's Avatar
    Look, I should start out by saying i'm ordering two iphones on-line tonight, but your list is pretty bad.

    Only phone that's completely Mac friendly. In todays market, this probably should be considered revolutionary (only feature to be read with a snide remark).

    Can you be more specific? How does the mac interface with iphone differently than with other phones? There are no other phones that can sync to a mac?

    First and only phone to provide a revolutionary multi-touch interface
    1. Two-finger stretching gesture
    2. Two-finger tap-to-zoom out gesture
    3. Two-finger pinching gesture
    4. One-finger double-tap-to-zoom in gesture
    5. One-finger scrolling gesture
    6. One-finger flicking gesture
    7. One-finger swiping/sweeping (depends on the context) gesture


    Several of the one-finger gestures you mention above exist in some programs on my treo 650. True, they are not all supported system-wide, however.

    Revolutionary fingertip editing lets you touch and hold the screen to get a zoomed in area of text for precise cursor placement with your finger.

    True, but that's only needed because there is no physical keypad. So it's more like compensation for lack of a feature than it is a feature in its own right.

    Revolutionary keyboard - I know a little bit about what they are doing to make this unique keyboard a success. Every little space on that screen is tracking and measuring and relating to every other little space. There is a great deal of processing power required JUST for the simple act of typing. And reading how your finger hits the screen and what part of your finger hits first and the total amount of space that it hits all in an effort to account for inaccuracies. There is a lot of research that has been done here. They even take into account a person's inability to accurately predict what part of their finger actually hits the screen. It seems that we fail to take into account the curve of our finger and how it actually hits the screen based on the overhead view we have in watching the screen as we type. Then of course there is the software based auto-correcting type of feature that analyzes which keys you MIGHT have meant to hit and figures out the word you wanted. And then of course word prediction. To this end, word prediction itself is also used in conjunction with a process of dynamically enlarging tap zones behind the scenes for virtually larger keys.

    Ditto. If it had a physical keypad it wouldn't need all this stuff. Also, it would be nice if the "revolutionary keyboard" had period, comma (at the very least) on the main keyboard, or if it worked in all applications when rotated.

    Revolutionary visual and user interface cues serve most appropriately.

    Is that an English sentence? Yes, the interface is cool (is that what you are trying to say?)

    Only phone to have a revolutionary one-button design - that lone button on the bottom of the phone will take you back to the home screen, provide quick accessibility to the iPhone's list of applications, provide a quick escape from the depths of any application or settings screen and act as a clean up/clean start tool - all with one quick press.

    It actually has more than one button (sleep, etc.) But why is "one-button" so great? Would a tv remote with one button be good? Is the mac mouse with one button great? I'd rather have TWO buttons, at least - with one dedicated to answering/hanging up the phone.

    Only phone to employ context sensitive scroll bars that only appear when needed. No valuable screen real-estate is taken away and it is cleanly implemented.

    Not even a little bit true. Palm has had this for years. The scroll arrows appear only when needed.

    Only phone to have a large 3.5 inch screen which utilizes every pixel for the camera view screen.

    I believe that. Though i'd rather have better picture quality than a nice viewfinder.

    In a revolutionary move, Apple incorporates a high resolution, 160 pixel per inch screen that provides the most readable text (fonts) of any handheld device ever made. To explain, Apple uses a sub-pixel display technology algorithm that preserves the design of the typeface. Other OSes force the letter shapes into pixel boundaries to prevent blur and improve readability, but at high resolutions like 160 pixels per inch, this methodology suffers; and as a result, the true typeface character is lost. This results in two strikes against the other's methodology, which is designed for the lower resolution screens. Thank you resolution independence.

    1) where'd you get this info?
    2) how is "sub-pixel display technology" different than ClearType (which is a "sub-pixel display technology").
    3) "most readable...of any handheld device ever made" - I assume you mean just phones. And how do you know it is more readable than a palm *p with 320x320 resolution on a smaller screen?

    Thinnest "smartphone" available anywhere (and no big protrusions).

    Doubt it, but whatever.

    Only phone manufacturer to write and support the revolutionary software for provisioning AND revocation. In fact, they have their own provisioning servers. The benefits are many but it quite obviously saves time and allows the consumer to activate without hassle from Sales people.

    Don't know if it will save time (on my previous sprint phones, i provisioned over the air by phone within minutes of calling), but I'm all for this change.

    Apple provides the quickest method available to accomplish phone number transfers. Only server software to accomplish phone number transfers in 3 minutes rather than 3 days. This too can be accomplished in the privacy of your own home.

    Even apple says it can take "hours" on their web site, not "minutes." Which is how long it generally takes for everyone else too (nightmare stories notwithstanding.)

    Only phone to employ Oracle's open standard, OMA and IETF based "Push-IMAP" email.

    This is simply not true, and you know it.

    1) Oracle has nothing to do with it
    2) "push-imap" is just imap idle, and i've been doing that on my palm for years with chatter. There is NOTHING different about apple's "push-imap" (as you call it.) It's just supporting the IDLE feature in the IMAP standard.


    Only phone (mobile device) made that gives access to streaming and scalable content from YouTube

    Other than any other phone with a web browser.

    Only phone to support open source, standards-based CalDAV calendaring solution for workgroups.

    Also not true.

    Subscription accounting for a phone to account for upgrades and additions over the course of 2 years. A promise and dedication.

    Perhaps you could rephrase this in English?

    First phone to not be subsidized through carrier. No rebate crap or distracting hand waving to save money in voice and data plans. No game or hoops to jump through. Just straight business.

    Heh heh. You have to be kidding. You think it's GOOD that you have to pay full price, and then have to pay $175 if you return it? That's funny.

    Only phone that doesn't have carrier logos plastered all over it.

    No it's not. Just buy any unlocked phone. Palm has been selling them that way for years.

    First company to actually sell a phone based on a subscription model and not a subsidy model. They don't leave the customer with an iPhone that grows progressively more obsolete over two years. Instead, they will release updates and applications that users can download to customize and enhance their phone. No fake promises like other phone manufacturers. They have no reason to upgrade the phone and the software because it is already sold, and they rarely do. When they do offer a firmware upgrade, it proves to be so difficult to perform that many never do it. And many never realize they can. Apple's unique approach assures its availability to all.

    I hope so, but history is not on your side. I have an ipod photo, and as soon as the next generation came out, no more updates (of note).

    Apple is the only company that has designed a mobile smartphone for service provider but catering to the customer rather than the provider.

    Gibberish.

    Only phone to provide seamless switching between EDGE and Wi-Fi. Continual surveying of wi-fi availability. Previously joined networks can be set up to quietly, seamless and automatically connected to.

    Maybe true. Anyone know if it supports wpa/tkip? Leap?

    Only phone manufacturer ever to influence a carrier to expand time slots available to data services network.

    I suppose.

    The stability and reliability and security that comes with OS X and LLVM.

    Um. A complicated operating system is going to be a lot less secure and reliable than a special-purpose operating system, dude. And i've written an OS or two, so I'd know.

    Incredible scrolling with rubber band effects mirroring real physics effects provide for easy recognition and virtual orientation (eh, its easy to follow and understand what is going on).

    I believe you are repeating your previous user interface argument.

    Revolutionary web interface helps to provide THE BEST overall smartphone browsing experience.

    Arguably.

    Easiest conference call management I have ever seen.

    I don't know what you "have ever seen" but I get your point.

    Revolutionary conference call management provides the most flexibility of any smartphone available. Connect up to 6 people easily. Even set up sub-conferencing.

    ditto

    Coolest implementation of Google Maps I have ever seen.

    on a phone, i assume? I'd trade the prettyness for the gps of the blackberry, though.

    Only phone available that has a context sensitive keyboard that pops up only when needed and adapts functionality based on situation; no need to request the keyboard. This is extremely useful and really well done.

    Not true. My old windows mobile device popped up softkeyboards (or handwriting boxes) when needed, based on the situation.

    Only mobile phone to incorporate revolutionary concepts like "touching your music" and "Visual Voicemail" (random access). Greatly improves usability.

    Yeah, again with the user interface.

    Only phone to have voice mail scrubbing. Lets you scrub through the voice mail timeline to quickly get to where you want.

    You are restating what you just said.

    Revolutionary method of having voice mail sent to you - like push e-mail. You can listen to and review your voice mail on a train or on a plane, without the need of carrier reception.

    Is that true?

    Revolutionary "Coverflow" browsing of music and media. Plus, you can flick an album and it spins around to reveal the song list to choose from on the back... just like physical albums.

    Yes, very cool. But, again, "user interface."

    Revolutionary, context sensitive, smoothly transforming control surfaces provide an intuitive user interface.

    How many ways are you going to say "user interface?"

    Only phone to support such a wide variety of media formats out of the box: AAC, Protected AAC, MP3, VBR, Audible (formats 1, 2, and 3), Apple Lossless, AIFF, WAV, H.264 video, multiple levels of LC H.264 Baseline, MPEG-4 video and of course .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats.

    Audio: nice selection
    Video: crap selection

    Only smartphone to have antenna located in the back part of the phone at the very bottom. Very considerate for those with radiation concerns. Never understood why manufacturers continue placing the antenna as close to your head as possible.

    As an electrical engineer, and as someone who's brain actually fills his entire head, I can assure you this makes little difference.

    Only phone to have entire screen faade flat so that it can be quickly and simply wiped clean with its unique edgeless, no-bezel design. This is to say nothing of the specially selected glass finish chosen to reduce finger prints.

    Prada? Also, it needs to have special glass because most other phones are not designed to be touched with fingers. I don't give them credit for fixing a problem they introduced in the first place.

    Only phone to have a glass screen encompassing the entire front surface for higher scratch resistance as well as improved optical clarity.

    Repeat

    Revolutionary battery technology will provide up to 6 hours of internet use, 7 hours of video playback, 8 hours of talk time, 24 hours of audio playback, 250 hours of standby time This is unbelievable performance.

    My current phone will go longer than that, except for audio playback.

    Revolutionary approach in attracting developers based on AJAX has proven to attract the largest developer crowd ever for a single device.

    I believe palm, symbian, and windows mobile all have larger "developer crowds" at this juncture, dude. And from an engineering and use perspective, having to do everything over the network is horrible. I can't even play solitaire on the thing unless i write an application to deal with every move over the network? ridiculous.

    Only smartphone to ever incorporate such a high number of great ideas and processes assembled into one device. It has proven to make the iPhone into what many critics, writers, analysts and consumers consider high-tech jewelry that holds an incredible allure.

    But missing:

    -video record
    - bluetooth stereo
    - 3G
    - edit office docs (and is there even a way to put docs on the phone to view without mailing them to yourself?)
    - games
    - flash, java
    - exchange protocol (maybe coming)

    Here's my list:

    -visual voicemail
    -UI details
    -browser[/QUOTE]

    All I have to say is you need to read the original thread cmaier...doesn't matter what you type he'll not agree with you. I think that forum beachtrader put up (everythingiphone.com) will be perfect for archie...they all love the iPhone there so he shouldn't have the intelligent objections on false acts that we put forward here.
    06-29-2007 07:49 PM
  9. JustLeft's Avatar
    Well I got my IPhone today at the AT&T store. I have owned a BB8720, Treo 650, Motorola Q, Treo 700P, 6700, and the Blackberry 8830. Feel I have had a pretty good base for comparison. Been playing with the iphone for about 2 hours. It is the most beautiful interface that I have used on a handheld. Also, it is very intuitive. Easy to operate. I never cracked a manual, yet was able to get all of may email accounts set up and porting my addressbook was easy. I am disappointed with the speaker phone volume - it is too low. Hopefully this can be fixed in the future. The GPRS seems to be very slow. It flies when it is connected to my network.

    Things that are missing that I would like to see:
    - an RSS reader, client not web based
    - make the phone LOUDER - for ringtones, calls, etc...
    - Having the ability to pull up a weather map from the weather icon - the temperature is nice, but if there are storms you can"t track their movement.
    - ability to customize the main screen.
    06-30-2007 12:57 AM
  10. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Thanks for the actual review Justleft! :thumbsup:

    I'd like a louder phone too.
    06-30-2007 01:23 AM
  11. surfasb#IM's Avatar
    Only phone to have a revolutionary one-button design - that lone button on the bottom of the phone will take you back to the home screen, provide quick accessibility to the iPhone's list of applications, provide a quick escape from the depths of any application or settings screen and act as a clean up/clean start tool - all with one quick press.

    It actually has more than one button (sleep, etc.) But why is "one-button" so great? Would a tv remote with one button be good? Is the mac mouse with one button great? I'd rather have TWO buttons, at least - with one dedicated to answering/hanging up the phone.



    The one button design reminded me of the Mac mouse. I think Apple made a good move by eliminating buttons to make the screen as big as possible. But their best move was the simple and ***** proof interface they created. I'm currently living with my cousins and their two kids and I often forget how technologically challenged the average computer user can be. Too many options, too many menu choices, too many ways to change the interface is too too much for anyone else besides a computer geek like me.

    I'm very happy with my treo as I have turned it into a lean, GPSing, gaming and internet machine.
    06-30-2007 01:47 AM
  12. Kupe#WP's Avatar
    More "revolutionary" iPhone features listed over at HoFo in this thread:
    Here's the short list:

    1. Bluetooth is ONLY good for connecting a headset. That's it.
    2. There is no file browser on the device at all. Data must be organized (if at all) in the appropriate application.
    3. The camera is a simple application that has ONE button: the shutter. Pictures come out okay on the device, but nothing too fancy on a monitor, especially if it was an attempt at a macro shot.
    4. SIM card is damn near impossible to open, if at all. I didn't look into it extensively.
    5. Web browser is slow, even over WLAN. Even the simple OneList web app that was created takes around 20 seconds to load over WLAN. You can not highlight, cut, copy, or paste and text from a website, and you can not save any images you find from a website either. The only nice thing about it is the tabbed browsing, which crashed on me when I went to Engadget and YouTube on two tabs. This is the only application that allows you to use the keyboard in landscape mode.
    6. The keyboard sucks. It gets slightly better after the iPhone "learns" you, as the employees said, but even then, it's not a device you can use with one hand comfortably, much less without looking.
    7. You can only send one picture at a time in an email.
    8. No custom ringtones (yet, as we were being told) and the alert tones can not be changed whatsoever.
    9. The default ringtones are incredibly lame.
    10. The only form of customization outside of a lame default ringtone is the wallpaper, which you'll only see when you need to unlock the device or when you get a phone call.
    11. "Picture pinching" or using two fingers to zoom on any content is certainly fun to play with, but not practical whatsoever. This operation depends solely on using the device with two hands.
    12. No document editor or native viewer. You can not store documents on the device to be viewed, they can only be viewed as attachments when they're sent to your in an email.
    13. Visual voicemail is laggy and reacts about the same way as pushing the fast forward and rewind buttons on traditional voicemail systems. The only advantage is for those that get that many voicemail messages a day that they need to sort them according to priority.
    14. NO games. None.
    15. No voice dialing.
    16. No speed dialing (which can be made up by the "quick list", but getting to that quick list isn't as fast as holding a single key on a real keypad).
    17. No video.
    18. No MMS.
    19. It's still <4GB for $500 and <8GB for $600
    20. It only takes around 2 hours to explore every menu without any options for expandability except to scrounge around for new web apps that will load slowly and nowhere near as smoothly as the native apps.
    I was thinking of picking one up to play with, but with ony 2 hours of entertaining exploration value, I think I'll wait until Apple comes out with a good model.
    06-30-2007 08:44 AM
  13. west3man's Avatar




    Archie, lying makes Steve Jobs sad...

    Surur
    I swear, I thought that was a priest.

    I wonder if that was deliberate on his part.
    06-30-2007 08:44 AM
  14. dgoodisi's Avatar
    Just to address some of the items in these rediculous claims not touched upon by others.

    Only phone that's completely Mac friendly. In todays market, this probably should be considered revolutionary (only feature to be read with a snide remark).
    [COLOR="Red"]Translation,with only 4% of the computers out there being a Mac there is no real market for supporting the Mac/COLOR]

    First and only phone to provide a revolutionary multi-touch interface
    1. Two-finger stretching gesture
    2. Two-finger tap-to-zoom out gesture
    3. Two-finger pinching gesture
    4. One-finger double-tap-to-zoom in gesture
    5. One-finger scrolling gesture
    6. One-finger flicking gesture
    7. One-finger swiping/sweeping (depends on the context) gesture

    HTC Touch launched first, admittedly in Canada and Europe, and has a similar "Touch" interface. In fact the demo videos for the iPhone are almost interchangable with the videos for the Touch

    Revolutionary fingertip editing lets you touch and hold the screen to get a zoomed in area of text for precise cursor placement with your finger.

    This whole idea of displaying the site scaled down to a small display is a joke. Cool yes, usable no. Why bother with a rendering that you can't read

    Revolutionary keyboard - ...

    Predictive text and adaptive keyboards have been around for years


    In a revolutionary move, Apple incorporates a high resolution, 160 pixel per inch screen that provides the most readable text (fonts) of any handheld device ever made.

    This one is laughable. PocketPC 2003 supported 196 DPI. The PalmOS has supported 150 DPI for years (so close to 160), the MotoQ exceeds 160

    ...


    Only phone manufacturer to write and support the revolutionary software for provisioning AND revocation. In fact, they have their own provisioning servers. The benefits are many but it quite obviously saves time and allows the consumer to activate without hassle from Sales people.

    Doubtful. Why "build your own" when you can just write a web interface into the existing servers. Which is exactly what they have done. This guy has never heard about "Service Oriented Architecture" or even APIs.

    Apple provides the quickest method available to accomplish phone number transfers. Only server software to accomplish phone number transfers in 3 minutes rather than 3 days. This too can be accomplished in the privacy of your own home.

    Nope, they don't. They are only advertising the fastest the current system can accomplish it. In a perfect scenario the current system will port a number in 3 minutes.

    ...

    Only phone (mobile device) made that gives access to streaming and scalable content from YouTube

    Already addressed, but bears repeating. BS Youtube is already available to all phones at http://m.youtube.com.

    Only phone to support open source, standards-based CalDAV calendaring solution for workgroups.

    Is this that Mac only ICAL or similar? Again 5% PC share equals no market. However there are free and not-so-free solutions for syncing PalmOS and windows Mobile with ICAL servers.

    Subscription accounting for a phone to account for upgrades and additions over the course of 2 years. A promise and dedication.

    Vs. Microsofts automatic updating provided with Windows Mobile 6

    ...

    Apple is the only company that has designed a mobile smartphone for service provider but catering to the customer rather than the provider.

    Nearly all the HTC phones fall under this category. For example, the PPC 6700 was the only phone from Sprint that provided Bluetooth and USB tethering without needing a specific data plan.

    ...

    Only phone manufacturer ever to influence a carrier to expand time slots available to data services network.

    What does this even mean?

    The stability and reliability and security that comes with OS X and LLVM.

    I always love reading this crap. It's like the arguement over which motorcycle is better, Kawasaki or Suzuki when everyone knows Hondas are the best. Bottom line, Windows with 95% market share is a target, Mac with 4% is not. Enough said.

    ...

    Revolutionary web interface helps to provide THE BEST overall smartphone browsing experience.

    Let's see, displaying a website using text so small I can't read it is "the best". Also, if you are going to do a comparison then compare the iPhone browser to the NEW browsers. IE in Windows Mobile 6 is the most standards compliant mobile browser available RIGHT NOW, PERIOD. This is coming from a web developer creating sites targeting mobile phones. (Don't even get me started on Safari issues, Why can't mac users stick with Firefox?)

    Easiest conference call management I have ever seen.

    I can only hope someone has finally gotten this right.

    ...

    Coolest implementation of Google Maps I have ever seen.

    Have you seen the Google Maps application available for Windows Mobile or Palm OS? Or are you driving an interface thing again?

    ...

    Only phone to support such a wide variety of media formats out of the box: AAC, Protected AAC, MP3, VBR, Audible (formats 1, 2, and 3), Apple Lossless, AIFF, WAV, H.264 video, multiple levels of LC H.264 Baseline, MPEG-4 video and of course .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats.

    Call me crazy, but doesn't the free TCPMP support the same and more formats?

    ...

    Only phone to have a glass screen encompassing the entire front surface for higher scratch resistance as well as improved optical clarity.

    Maybe this is for a reason? Say weight and durability.

    Revolutionary battery technology will provide up to 6 hours of internet use, 7 hours of video playback, 8 hours of talk time, 24 hours of audio playback, 250 hours of standby time This is unbelievable performance.

    It's a fricken lithium ion battery, same thing that exists in ANY OTHER PHONE

    Revolutionary approach in attracting developers based on AJAX has proven to attract the largest developer crowd ever for a single device.

    Ok, I'm a developer, THIS IS A JOKE. Browser based apps only succeed if a fast network is available. So no WiFi your SOL. Also, browser based apps have no access to the device for security reasons. So no games, no applications that extend features.
    Examples:
    TomTom
    my choice in email apps, web browsers, chat applications
    Heck, even a basic IM client.
    Those cool shopping list apps.
    An app to keep track of all my password, credit cards, and the like
    The list goes on...


    Only smartphone to ever incorporate such a high number of great ideas and processes assembled into one device. It has proven to make the iPhone into what many critics, writers, analysts and consumers consider high-tech jewelry that holds an incredible allure.

    There is NOT ONE ORIGINAL idea to be found in the iPhone. Everything mentioned can be found in an existing product. Apple has produced an attractively packaged product; they have doen what they are good at, taking existing features and putting a cool software interface on it.
    06-30-2007 03:22 PM
  15. JustLeft's Avatar
    I am not interested in getting into discussions about who was first, second, third, etc... I would sum the iphone up by saying it is dramatically different than anything that I have used. One thing that has been a big surprise to me is the visual voicemail. It is great! I can see a list of who left vm and by just touching their name it starts playing the message immediately. There is no delay. No waiting for your phone to dial, connect, then enter a password.

    I am not a fan of web based applications. Hopefully, there will be other apps added to the device, or if there are web based apps, that there is an easy way to store them locally - although that defeats the purpose. The GPRS system is slow. I would not want to be running apps through that connection.

    Also I have noticed that sometimes my AT&T signal seems to disappear, without moving the phone. Is that something that is an AT&T issue, or could it be the phone?
    06-30-2007 04:56 PM
  16. Kupe#WP's Avatar
    II would sum the iphone up by saying it is dramatically different than anything that I have used.
    Out of curiosity, what else have you used?
    06-30-2007 08:37 PM
  17. JustLeft's Avatar
    Here goes:

    Treo 650 - 1 1/2 years
    Treo 700P - 1 year
    Motorola Q - 2 weeks
    PPC 6700 - 1 month
    Blackberry 7250 - 2 year
    Blackberry 8830 - 1 month

    There is the list. Also I currently have a Palm TX and a Dell Axim x51v.

    Out of curiosity, what else have you used?
    06-30-2007 09:11 PM
  18. specimen38's Avatar
    Mike,

    I see your points. But what Archie is saying -- is that there has never been anything like this in one phone containing so many different technologies and causing such a shifting in the tide of mobile phones, and carrier relationships. Presumeably, your rebuttals are legit, but you'd have a whole list of phones to cite each example to refute Archie's list.

    Sorry to burst bubble.

    Tap to zoom-in/zoom-out, tap to scroll and gestures are not unique or new to iPhone.

    "One button" is a red herring. Anywhere you have to tap for a control, that's a button. One "hard" button, sure, but I see a lot of "soft" button in the iPhone (not to be confused with soft keys, which are a variant on hard buttons"

    As for best font, again, not true...not even the highest resolution.

    Please define "smartphone", because again, it's not the thinnest.

    Now it's Oracle's IMAP/POP? How about just plain old POP/IMAP, which is just fine.

    "A promise and dedication" - you mean like all the Apple porducts in the past that were abandoned. Does that extend to the battery, once it des after 366 days?

    "First phone to not be subsidized through carrier." Not true. Phone are sold every day without subsidies.

    "Only phone that doesn't have carrier logos plastered all over it." Again, not true.

    "First company to actually sell a phone based on a subscription model and not a subsidy model." Again, not true; see above.

    "Only phone to provide seamless switching between EDGE and Wi-Fi." Please define seamless, because I doubt it will do midstream.

    "Revolutionary web interface helps to provide THE BEST overall smartphone browsing experience." I think you mean "best wi-fi browsing experience on a PMP that has phone functionality"

    "Only phone to support such a wide variety of media formats out of the box", again not true.

    "Only smartphone to have antenna located in the back part of the phone at the very bottom". Again, define smartphone, and not true.

    Like I said before, repeated false statements do not make them true. Starting a new thread to repeat them does not make them true either.
    06-30-2007 09:29 PM
  19. Kupe#WP's Avatar
    But what Archie is saying -- is that there has never been anything like this in one phone containing so many different technologies and causing such a shifting in the tide of mobile phones, and carrier relationships.
    The same could be said for RIM and the Blackberry.
    06-30-2007 10:33 PM
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