1. blocktek's Avatar
    I've had 3 Treo's now: the 600, 650, and 680. All GSM, all on Cingular/ATT's network. I use a Mac.

    I'm amazed at the treatment the Iphone is getting in the press. While I won't say I'll NEVER buy an Iphone (at least not for 2-3 product revisions), I'm stumped by the media's coverage of it. You'd think that a phone product has never been invented that could check email, web-browse, take and view photos, view movies, etc. Granted, Apple's product is all about the interface, but I think the press is giving them way too much credit for its features.

    With my Treo, I can chat (using versachat, or equivalent), send photos via SMS, use GPS (TomTom), change my battery, and increase data capacity via SD card. All features absent on the Iphone. Sure, its not as pretty, and Lord knows I've had my complaints about Palm in the past, but it WORKS, and it has for years.

    My feeling is that the majority of those clamoring for, and getting in line for, the Iphone will be first-time smartphone buyers. They're still using their basic Nokias and flip-phones. And there is going to be a hell of a backlash against Apple/ATT when those users face the basic learning curve that comes with the technology. Those of us that have been using and living with the technology for years now know to wait and see how Apple's product truly innovates.

    Of course, I reserve the right to change my tune completely once I've actually held one of these gadgets in my hand.
    06-28-2007 12:01 PM
  2. stroths's Avatar
    I just hope they have large hands so the phone looks smaller.
    06-28-2007 12:06 PM
  3. cardfan's Avatar
    the media is just feeding the ignorant masses. Treo users are not apple's target.

    The iphone is kinda like the new AOL. It's meant for the tech dummies.
    06-28-2007 12:12 PM
  4. ktm97's Avatar
    I think the way they announced it and the advertising is light years ahead of Palm, all we get are a few leaked photos on here regarding a new device.
    06-28-2007 12:15 PM
  5. theog's Avatar
    My feeling is that the majority of those clamoring for, and getting in line for, the Iphone will be first-time smartphone buyers. They're still using their basic Nokias and flip-phones. And there is going to be a hell of a backlash against Apple/ATT when those users face the basic learning curve that comes with the technology. Those of us that have been using and living with the technology for years now know to wait and see how Apple's product truly innovates.
    Your "feeling" is off. It is a device and people will learn it... it will work for them... the things will have little issues, but most will not know... there will be little things but most won't care... Those that do care, will find ways around the issue....

    sounds almost like all those people who like about the 700p and says it has no issues... well, they do not lie, the phone has no issues for "them." People do not use all the features of any given product... I don't use all the features on my 700wx.

    Apple is a marketing machine... no doubt about that... no way to doubt that....
    06-28-2007 12:15 PM
  6. mikec#IM's Avatar
    I've had 3 Treo's now: the 600, 650, and 680. All GSM, all on Cingular/ATT's network. I use a Mac.

    I'm amazed at the treatment the Iphone is getting in the press. While I won't say I'll NEVER buy an Iphone (at least not for 2-3 product revisions), I'm stumped by the media's coverage of it. You'd think that a phone product has never been invented that could check email, web-browse, take and view photos, view movies, etc. Granted, Apple's product is all about the interface, but I think the press is giving them way too much credit for its features.

    With my Treo, I can chat (using versachat, or equivalent), send photos via SMS, use GPS (TomTom), change my battery, and increase data capacity via SD card. All features absent on the Iphone. Sure, its not as pretty, and Lord knows I've had my complaints about Palm in the past, but it WORKS, and it has for years.

    My feeling is that the majority of those clamoring for, and getting in line for, the Iphone will be first-time smartphone buyers. They're still using their basic Nokias and flip-phones. And there is going to be a hell of a backlash against Apple/ATT when those users face the basic learning curve that comes with the technology. Those of us that have been using and living with the technology for years now know to wait and see how Apple's product truly innovates.

    Of course, I reserve the right to change my tune completely once I've actually held one of these gadgets in my hand.
    The media is a big consumer or Mac products...hence the loving coverage.
    Also, they view Apple as an "underdog", and always champion it.

    And of course, they have to hype something...and Apple is happy to oblige.

    The media has never been about reality, just perceptions.
    06-28-2007 12:20 PM
  7. car_designer's Avatar
    The iphone is kinda like the new AOL. It's meant for the tech dummies.
    Smart move, since there is probably alot of money to be made off of "tech dummies"
    06-28-2007 12:28 PM
  8. dstrauss#IM's Avatar
    the media is just feeding the ignorant masses. Treo users are not apple's target.

    The iphone is kinda like the new AOL. It's meant for the tech dummies.
    That may be true (I don't persoanlly think so), but you sure don't see those "tech dummies" racing towards Treo or even Samsung devices. So what's really wrong with that? The company makes unreal amounts of money; AT&T steal droves of Verizon and Sprint customers; and maybe Appe tosses us geeks a few bones in the iPhone Ia or II.

    If it expands overall acceptance of converged devices, then those newbies begin to demand the "fill-ins" for the tech holes, and we all begin to benefit...including demanding that AT&T and the others get off their collective duffs and give us ubiquitous 3G data connectivity.
    06-28-2007 12:35 PM
  9. taroliw's Avatar
    I just hope they have large hands so the phone looks smaller.
    Well, considering it's already on par with most "thin" WM smartphones and is smaller overall than a Treo... what's the point here? I'm not rush out to buy one, but you might want to check out the dimension comparions first... http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/a...to-q-and-bb-p/

    The iPhone may be a couple of mm wider and taller, but it's HALF as thick, and that's with a 3.5" touch screen. IIRC, it's the touch screen and removable battery that so often get accused of contributing to Treo's thickness.
    06-28-2007 12:42 PM
  10. taroliw's Avatar
    Well, I tend not to think of this as a Treo vs iPhone discussion, really. There is no real comparison functionality wise -- though that would change if you could actually put third party apps on iPhone.

    This is all about target market. Palm has been trying to shuffle itself to take advantage of the less savvy user who can benefit from smartphone features. Wasn't that the expressed intent of the 680? Take the former flagship 650, give it the RAM it should have had in the first place, give it a nicer shell, cut the price, and market to a new group of people. They say this is the same sort of thing they're doing with Foleo, only on the higher end.

    The problem as I see it is that Palm /isn't/ successfully marketing to these markets. Their biggest volume increases seem to be from more overseas expansion. So, Apple knows how to market... big surprise there. And if people respond to that and find the iPhone useful, then so be it. Is the iPhone revolutionary or market driving? I tend not to think so... but marketing is what it is. If calling it "revolutionary" gets the bodies in the door, then go for it.
    06-28-2007 12:48 PM
  11. dstrauss#IM's Avatar
    ...it's the touch screen and removable battery that so often get accused of contributing to Treo's thickness.
    I've seen that too, but the 600 had a sealed battery as well, and the 650 didn't add thickness to the Treo...
    06-28-2007 01:10 PM
  12. nyc_rock's Avatar
    I've had 3 Treo's now: the 600, 650, and 680. All GSM, all on Cingular/ATT's network. I use a Mac.

    I'm amazed at the treatment the Iphone is getting in the press. While I won't say I'll NEVER buy an Iphone (at least not for 2-3 product revisions), I'm stumped by the media's coverage of it. You'd think that a phone product has never been invented that could check email, web-browse, take and view photos, view movies, etc. Granted, Apple's product is all about the interface, but I think the press is giving them way too much credit for its features.

    With my Treo, I can chat (using versachat, or equivalent), send photos via SMS, use GPS (TomTom), change my battery, and increase data capacity via SD card. All features absent on the Iphone. Sure, its not as pretty, and Lord knows I've had my complaints about Palm in the past, but it WORKS, and it has for years.

    My feeling is that the majority of those clamoring for, and getting in line for, the Iphone will be first-time smartphone buyers. They're still using their basic Nokias and flip-phones. And there is going to be a hell of a backlash against Apple/ATT when those users face the basic learning curve that comes with the technology. Those of us that have been using and living with the technology for years now know to wait and see how Apple's product truly innovates.

    Of course, I reserve the right to change my tune completely once I've actually held one of these gadgets in my hand.


    I agee with you 100%. this device it totally greared to people using basic cell phones that also use Ipods. Anybody who has been in the smartphone market for a while knows the Iphone brings nothing new to the game. Ok, the interface is cool, but as far as functionality, its not new at all. Add to that the fact it only uses edge, the lack of a removable battery, no a2dp support (a crime) and no voice dialing, in many ways this is a step back.
    06-28-2007 01:49 PM
  13. bruckwine's Avatar
    Well, I tend not to think of this as a Treo vs iPhone discussion, really. There is no real comparison functionality wise -- though that would change if you could actually put third party apps on iPhone.

    This is all about target market. Palm has been trying to shuffle itself to take advantage of the less savvy user who can benefit from smartphone features. Wasn't that the expressed intent of the 680? Take the former flagship 650, give it the RAM it should have had in the first place, give it a nicer shell, cut the price, and market to a new group of people. They say this is the same sort of thing they're doing with Foleo, only on the higher end.

    The problem as I see it is that Palm /isn't/ successfully marketing to these markets. Their biggest volume increases seem to be from more overseas expansion. So, Apple knows how to market... big surprise there. And if people respond to that and find the iPhone useful, then so be it. Is the iPhone revolutionary or market driving? I tend not to think so... but marketing is what it is. If calling it "revolutionary" gets the bodies in the door, then go for it.
    Well mate I didn't want to tell you but the overseaas market is VERY big! I'm part of it and Palm hass alredy enticed customers with the 680 (good thing they got it out 6 months before the iPhone lmao).

    The real question is when will Apple try and expand? I don't see them doing anything until 2008 (after the launch of leopard and the figures arre in on the iPhone's first efforts). If it does take them say another year or two to reach Europe (def. think they will go there 2008) or other regions like developing countries (Caribbean, Asia) where companies like sony & nokia have been for over a decade, those companies and Palm may have just that little window to reassess themselves and come up with innovative ways to compete
    06-28-2007 02:03 PM
  14. ktm97's Avatar
    I believe vodaphone is already on target to get the next version of iphone with 3G
    06-28-2007 02:59 PM
  15. llarson's Avatar
    the media is just feeding the ignorant masses. Treo users are not apple's target.

    The iphone is kinda like the new AOL. It's meant for the tech dummies.
    Again a person who sees the iPHONE as something they don't like or wouldn't use so anyone who does have a use for it must be intellectually inferior.

    Do you guys walk around with your phones strapped to your crotch in hopes you will impress people?

    Many people will be new to smartphones but many will have used smartphones in the past and see the iPHONE as a good match for the business the do.
    06-28-2007 03:06 PM
  16. taroliw's Avatar
    Well mate I didn't want to tell you but the overseaas market is VERY big! I'm part of it and Palm hass alredy enticed customers with the 680 (good thing they got it out 6 months before the iPhone lmao).
    That really wasn't the point. I think they were idiots for not going overseas WAY earlier. The point was that they were supposedly targetting markets of unsophisticated device users -- unless you were suggesting Europeans have that market cornered too . In this regard, I don't think Palm really hit the mark at all. My mention of overseas markets was to point out that this was apparently their primary means of growing market share. I don't disagree it's a vastly bigger market than the U.S. alone, but that kind of growth isn't sustainable long-term... they need to actually innovate and market as well.
    06-28-2007 03:32 PM
  17. oalvarez's Avatar
    of course i agree with llarson's statement. i really don't understand the animosity, and it almost comes off as some sort of jealousy. i don't understand why everyone thinks that apple "had to" include their wants and the like and speak as though it is something that Apple just completely missed. Apple designed and manufactured what they think would work for the consumer and what was most profitable for them. i further don't understand why this level of disgust isn't shown to Palm for the absolute ineptitude that they have shown with their own product offerings over the years.

    people are going to have fun with their iphones. those people don't give a rat's *** whether or not it comes with a2d2 and c3p0, 3rd party software capability and the like. like i've said, walk up and down the street and ask people what they really do with their devices...ask them if they can "cut and paste" and see what they say.

    people around here have fun making their Treos and other devices do what they can't out of the box. to me, that's a deficient device. customizable? yes. content with how it works out of the box, no.

    regards
    06-28-2007 03:38 PM
  18. Malatesta's Avatar
    My feeling is that the majority of those clamoring for, and getting in line for, the Iphone will be first-time smartphone buyers. They're still using their basic Nokias and flip-phones. And there is going to be a hell of a backlash against Apple/ATT when those users face the basic learning curve that comes with the technology.
    I agree that the majority will be coming from "dumb" phones and this will be their first foray into "smart" devices.

    Re: your point about backlash

    In fairness to Apple, on Saturday they are offering free workshops on how to use the device at their stores for anyone.

    I imagine it'll be offered for awhile, much like how Home Depot has those little free shops too.
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    oalvarez, don't be so naive.

    The animosity comes from the grandiose and pompous claims by Apple to have "reinvented the phone" and basically insulted every other device out there. Look at all the coverage they got and you don't expect some people to react negatively? Should there be less scrutiny and no criticism for this device?

    The copy/paste thing is imporant when you use your computer for email and web browsing, why is that different on the iPhone? What's the difference in what you will be doing?

    And for all of us "attackers" how much better is it for all the defenders who spend as much breath talking up how great this unreleased device is? It's the same coin, different sides, don't act above it all.

    Had Plalm released a WM device today with no 3g, would people just say "eh, 3g isn't that great anyways, who needs it?" You sure wouldn't. You blame Palm for everything while giving the carriers a free pass for their lack of vision, they are afterall the people who commision devices to be made and approve them. Apple is tons strong, more powerful and richer than Palm and they strong-armed AT&T to do what they wanted, no restrictions. Good for them it worked, but other companies are not in that position and don't have that clout.

    Could Palm get Sprint to redo their network to accomdate them? Could anyone besides Apple? It's a risk though, Verizon said "no".
    06-28-2007 03:42 PM
  19. PalmHead's Avatar
    iPhone shiny, dark, pretty. Me want play with!!! Pictures flip flop - how they do?

    I know my Treo's the best and the iPhone is just a pretty face. But what a pretty face!! Me eat candy!
    06-28-2007 04:10 PM
  20. sxtg's Avatar
    of course i agree with llarson's statement. i really don't understand the animosity, and it almost comes off as some sort of jealousy. i don't understand why everyone thinks that apple "had to" include their wants and the like and speak as though it is something that Apple just completely missed. Apple designed and manufactured what they think would work for the consumer and what was most profitable for them. i further don't understand why this level of disgust isn't shown to Palm for the absolute ineptitude that they have shown with their own product offerings over the years.

    people are going to have fun with their iphones. those people don't give a rat's *** whether or not it comes with a2d2 and c3p0, 3rd party software capability and the like. like i've said, walk up and down the street and ask people what they really do with their devices...ask them if they can "cut and paste" and see what they say.

    people around here have fun making their Treos and other devices do what they can't out of the box. to me, that's a deficient device. customizable? yes. content with how it works out of the box, no.

    regards
    One man's PREROGATIVE is another's INEPTITUDE
    06-28-2007 04:34 PM
  21. dstrauss#IM's Avatar
    iPhone shiny, dark, pretty. Me want play with!!! Pictures flip flop - how they do?

    I know my Treo's the best and the iPhone is just a pretty face. But what a pretty face!! Me eat candy!
    Is PalmHead one of cardfan's intellectually superior Treo users? :stick:
    06-28-2007 04:35 PM
  22. nyc_rock's Avatar
    Again a person who sees the iPHONE as something they don't like or wouldn't use so anyone who does have a use for it must be intellectually inferior.

    Do you guys walk around with your phones strapped to your crotch in hopes you will impress people?

    Many people will be new to smartphones but many will have used smartphones in the past and see the iPHONE as a good match for the business the do.
    We know well enough that for 600 bucks the thing should be dam near perfect. And from the list of ommited features it is a far cry from that.
    06-28-2007 07:56 PM
  23. oalvarez's Avatar
    the price is what the market will bear. as for the features you wanted or expected, i don't think they purposely ommitted them to anger you or anyone else. maybe they think it will sell, at a profit, without them.
    06-28-2007 08:00 PM
  24. nyc_rock's Avatar
    the price is what the market will bear. as for the features you wanted or expected, i don't think they purposely ommitted them to anger you or anyone else. maybe they think it will sell, at a profit, without them.
    and Im sure it will, although I am very sceptical of ten million being sold in the first year, but betting against Steve Jobs is usually not a good idea. But I still think Apple made some mistakes.
    06-28-2007 08:15 PM
  25. surur's Avatar
    The PS3 is an interesting lesson in how past performance is not necessarily a guarantee of future results, and that the public is pretty price sensitive, and how arrogant managers can kill a product.

    Surur
    06-28-2007 08:20 PM
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