1. oalvarez's Avatar
    I have seen people make this type of statement many times as to Archie, don't drink the bong water and such, and have yet to see you or anyone else stand up and say stop these personal attacks on Archie.
    well, as embarrassing as it may seem, i have. the analogy i keep making is to that of Rambo, First Blood. I remember Archie's first posts on the iPhone subject matter and i also remember what followed (direct insults and the such); Archie was immediately put on the defensive. then the defensive was taken as an offensive and as true to form a vicious circle was what ensued. i'm not suggesting that one was right and the other bad, only stating what i remember and how i know it to be. the thing is that there are so many around here that simply hate all things iPhone (and i pretty much all things Treo) that it has become easy for them to group, band, gang against anything the individual has to say. remember, this is TreoCentral and anti-Palm is pretty much the minority. i'm not smart enough to follow along with all of the technological dialogue but the individual has had his fair share of criticism and the like. again, think about the movie First Blood, it's up to you to determine who was wrong to begin with.

    spirited debate is fun, it's great exercise to take a side and defend one's own thought, but in this case it really has turned beyond silly.

    regards
    06-28-2007 10:50 PM
  2. llarson's Avatar
    Do you need some sleep? when did I post anything about Palm and WM? I don't even use WM!

    And here we go with personal insults when you don't have it your way! Yep some ppl do personally insult archie with comments but none involved derogatory taunts about suicide or drug use..they were more like "can you read" and " get real facts next time"...and I personally wasn't one of them (except a reference to dunning kruger syndrome ). The things I have seen you posted aimed at persons here have been a first for me on THIS forum .

    Next this specific thread is about NOT getting the iPhone, so if you want to talk about "getting the iPhone" then it's YOU who need a new thread But of course i wouldn't tell you to do that as forums have free speech to a certain extent. As you may or may not notice when I want to start a thread I just click the "next thread' button.

    Finally your "insight" into my posts is irrelevant to me, as you are obviously very insecure (on the web at that). Ppl like you who actually have to resort to making derogatory remarks about others during a discussion amuse me. Why would I care about what you say unless you say it logically? If my comments don't contribute to YOUR experience there is an ignore button if you don't know!


    And wash taht potty mouth :P
    The comments you took offense to and a few others did as well were sarcasm.

    Maybe in poor taste but did you miss the Whitney Houston reference in the "Crack" comment?

    I am sorry if they offended you but please look back at some of your own recent posts and see if the tone in them isn't just a little abrasive to those you are responding to and demeaning.

    I will take your comments to heart and refrain from future use of my poor use of sarcasm.
    06-28-2007 10:50 PM
  3. bruckwine's Avatar
    The comments you took offense to and a few others did as well were sarcasm.

    Maybe in poor taste but did you miss the Whitney Houston reference in the "Crack" comment?

    I am sorry if they offended you but please look back at some of your own recent posts and see if the tone in them isn't just a little abrasive to those you are responding to and demeaning.

    I will take your comments to heart and refrain from future use of my poor use of sarcasm.
    Well tbh as long as you get that. Bante ris somethign I don't mind but when it does get personal it's a no-no (and i missed that Whitney thing). As to abrasive, I have been abrasive with regards to the iPhone - but then it IS a vicious cycle. I critque iPhone, some poster critiques ME for my critique then I go and respond. . .Apart from that I may have been abrasive when faced with illogical arguments (imo) but have never insulted anyone on a personal nature (though I admit implying that dunning kruger thing a few days back about archie due to him implying all us iPhone critics didn't have a clue).

    I have already taken it upon myself to ignore such things from now on and thus there will be no cycle - a win-win situation. I think I have already given what I think are the positives (GUI, screen, forcing others to innovate etc) and negatives (no removabe battery, no unlocked models, no keys, tethering to iTunes etc) so it may be that I can now sit back and simply browse witht he occasional post on a new fact!
    06-28-2007 11:00 PM
  4. volwrath's Avatar
    The comments you took offense to and a few others did as well were sarcasm.

    Maybe in poor taste but did you miss the Whitney Houston reference in the "Crack" comment?

    I am sorry if they offended you but please look back at some of your own recent posts and see if the tone in them isn't just a little abrasive to those you are responding to and demeaning.

    I will take your comments to heart and refrain from future use of my poor use of sarcasm.
    You attacked me and my poor Vols football team... I demand an apology.
    06-28-2007 11:33 PM
  5. PalmFive's Avatar
    Only 5 reasons? Here's 15 reasons why I won't buy one.

    1) No removeable battery

    2) No support for Office docs

    3) Can't install third party apps
    a) No Remote Desktop

    4) No keyboard

    5) Doesn't sync with Exchange

    6) AT&T network sucks

    7) No video camera

    8) Can't use it as modem

    9) No SIM card support, except from AT&T

    10) Can't use songs as ring tones, you have to use the 20 ring tones it comes with.

    11) No IM

    12) No Java support (even though I don't find much use for Java).

    13) Requires a 2 year contract with a has been (never was?) company

    14) 600 bucks is way too much to pay for a phone. I got my Treo for half of that.

    15) No real BT support; can't beam stuff back and forth to my PC, can't beam to a printer.

    The only positive I see is that'll push the market, push other companies to out do it.

    But out do what? In Palm's case, the Treo is already way ahead.

    If I was Palm, the most compelling thing I see is the way the screen changes landscape.

    The iPhone will be popular with poseurs, or people who's only use for it is recreation, not, business. Sorry, my Treo buries the iPhone.

    iPhone? iHype.
    06-29-2007 12:01 AM
  6. Malatesta's Avatar
    I though they had RSS (inside the safari browser)?
    Nope. At least Pogue, if I remember, pointed out that is no RSS capability.

    I'm 100% sure it'll be added later, even Engadget hinted that it might have it now, but Pogue suggests otherwise.
    06-29-2007 12:53 AM
  7. braj's Avatar
    Google's Reader may get upsold by Apple. It is a good alternative IMO.
    06-29-2007 01:33 AM
  8. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Other then Jason Bourne who really swaps SIM chips between devices? Remember the people on this board are in the minority so I was wondering what percentage of people who buy GSM phones really buy them with the selling point that they can just switch chips?

    As an aside, since the chip switch is a no go with the iPHONE I was told you will be able to migrate your contacts and such to the iPHONE through a program some how?

    Of course it is an extra $15 bucks!!!


    Always the dollars!
    I do ALL THE TIME! Others I know do too. Also look on Howard Forums for all the GSM users who swap SIMs. This is one BIG convenience of GSM.
    06-29-2007 01:44 AM
  9. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Sarcasm aside, I know it is tough for you but try big guy, do you really think the majority of people who buy GSM phones buy them not because the phone has great features but because they can always swap out chips?
    In the case of unlocked phones, yes! But even with locked phones, sometimes you just want or need to use another phone.
    06-29-2007 01:48 AM
  10. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Just remember that there is a 10% restocking fee if you open the box. Also, the return period is 14 days. No being able to try this out for 30 days like any other ATT phone and return it with no fee if you don't like it.
    Another strike if you can't use the usual ATT return policy! They're making things really NON-consumer friendly for the iPhone if all these things turn out to be true!
    06-29-2007 01:54 AM
  11. taylorh's Avatar
    I still think a non-swappable SIM is a bad idea. It would be different if I could switch devices online like you can on Verizon without calling them, but you can't do that on AT&T. Swapping your account/line to another SIM is not a terribly trivial process like it is with CDMA phones.
    06-29-2007 02:05 AM
  12. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    and by most people I mean the silent majority not the phone aficionado here, only switch out a SIM when the store clerk does it for them when they might buy a new phone.

    Not saying switching chips isn't a nice feature but I think a majority of people will not care if they can switch SIMs in the iPHONE.

    My opinion as I have no data to back it up but as with most things discussed here we are usually outside the mainstream.
    So you think people are going to carry their expensive iPhones everywhere? In some places, it really would be best to switch SIMs, unless you'll be staying in clean, safe urban areas most of the time. But that's not always the case for some.

    How about these examples:

    1. This isn't good work phone for blue collar workers(and yes some CAN afford an iPhone, some make decent money), since they are doing physical stuff a lot. But if they can switch SIMs, they can use the iPhone on their off hours if they want. You can see why blue collar workers use clunky Moto Nextels most of the time on the job, you drop those and they're still good to go! Drop an iPhone, start crying!

    2. And even if you're a white collar worker, suppose you're required to use a PDA on the job but still want to use the iPhone after hours? No SIM switching sucks.

    3. I suspect some parents will spoil their kids and send them to school with an iPhone, but that is such a BAD idea. If you do get your kid an iPhone, you really should have them switch to a cheaper phone for school to prevent theft and they can use the iPhone after school. I know it's not cool, but iPods get stolen at school a lot so what's going to happen when iPhones show up?

    4. What if you do end up having to go to less than comfortable areas, of whatever type? You need a phone but the iPhone could get easily damaged, stolen, confiscated or whatever. Time to switch SIMs. Unable to do so, then you'll have to leave the iPhone home or risk losing it.

    Just some of the reasons people would NEED to switch SIMs.
    06-29-2007 02:16 AM
  13. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    I have a question.

    Has it been confirmed what will happen if you don't choose a plan through iTunes? Does the activation get rejected entirely?
    06-29-2007 02:36 AM
  14. marcol's Avatar
    So you think people are going to carry their expensive iPhones everywhere? In some places, it really would be best to switch SIMs, unless you'll be staying in clean, safe urban areas most of the time. But that's not always the case for some.

    How about these examples:

    1. This isn't good work phone for blue collar workers(and yes some CAN afford an iPhone, some make decent money), since they are doing physical stuff a lot. But if they can switch SIMs, they can use the iPhone on their off hours if they want. You can see why blue collar workers use clunky Moto Nextels most of the time on the job, you drop those and they're still good to go! Drop an iPhone, start crying!

    2. And even if you're a white collar worker, suppose you're required to use a PDA on the job but still want to use the iPhone after hours? No SIM switching sucks.

    3. I suspect some parents will spoil their kids and send them to school with an iPhone, but that is such a BAD idea. If you do get your kid an iPhone, you really should have them switch to a cheaper phone for school to prevent theft and they can use the iPhone after school. I know it's not cool, but iPods get stolen at school a lot so what's going to happen when iPhones show up?

    4. What if you do end up having to go to less than comfortable areas, of whatever type? You need a phone but the iPhone could get easily damaged, stolen, confiscated or whatever. Time to switch SIMs. Unable to do so, then you'll have to leave the iPhone home or risk losing it.

    Just some of the reasons people would NEED to switch SIMs.
    Apologies to those who read this the first two times I posted it yesterday. This is what David Pogue has to say about switching SIMS:

    Can I use a SIM card from another phone? The iPhone comes with an installed SIM card, the tiny circuit board that stores your account information and phone number. Apple says that you should be able to replace it with any recent AT&T card, once you activate it in iTunes. No other company’s SIM card works in the iPhone.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/28/te...OGol4W8fkzYw8Q

    Looks like the iPhone uses a regular SIM. The phone is locked but you will able to put other modern AT&T SIMs and I'd imagine you'd be able switch the SIM that comes with it into other AT&T-locked or unlocked phones. Anyway, this should be confirmed (or not) very soon.
    06-29-2007 03:09 AM
  15. marcol's Avatar
    Nope. At least Pogue, if I remember, pointed out that is no RSS capability.

    I'm 100% sure it'll be added later, even Engadget hinted that it might have it now, but Pogue suggests otherwise.
    Apple apparently have an RSS reader web app:

    http://www.macrumors.com/2007/06/27/...er-for-iphone/
    06-29-2007 03:19 AM
  16. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Apologies to those who read this the first two times I posted it yesterday. This is what David Pogue has to say about switching SIMS:

    Can I use a SIM card from another phone? The iPhone comes with an installed SIM card, the tiny circuit board that stores your account information and phone number. Apple says that you should be able to replace it with any recent AT&T card, once you activate it in iTunes. No other companys SIM card works in the iPhone.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/28/te...OGol4W8fkzYw8Q

    Looks like the iPhone uses a regular SIM. The phone is locked but you will able to put other modern AT&T SIMs and I'd imagine you'd be able switch the SIM that comes with it into other AT&T-locked or unlocked phones. Anyway, this should be confirmed (or not) very soon.
    I saw that, but I was just responding to the poster who said many people probably didn't care about SIM switching. I'm not so sure that everyone with an iPhone will want to carry it in EVERY situation.

    Another thing I forgot. What about those who exercise or walk the dog with their phones in hand? I've seen that and you may want to be careful doing those with an iPhone.
    06-29-2007 03:28 AM
  17. taroliw's Avatar
    The downside is now you have to pay AT&T international roaming charges, vs. picking up a local or pre-paid SIM card. That might get expesnive, which is a shame for those who want this as a "world phone". I suppose though that is not important to you either.
    Generally speaking, a carrier will submit to unlocking a device if you're travelling somewhere like this. You just have to put up some fuss about it. But now that it would seem the news is out regarding the removable SIM in the iPhone, one can't imagine leaks of soon-to-be customers reporting they got AT&T to unlock their iPhone are too far behind.
    06-29-2007 03:44 AM
  18. taroliw's Avatar
    I want to know which phone is thinner.
    omg... are you kidding? Just do a quick search on "treo iphone comparison" and you will find an article comparing the dimensions of several devices. You will also find that the thickness of the iPhone and MotoQ are within a tenth of a millimeter of each other. I give kudos iPhone for being thin... but thinnest? Please.
    06-29-2007 03:54 AM
  19. marcol's Avatar
    I saw that, but I was just responding to the poster who said many people probably didn't care about SIM switching. I'm not so sure that everyone with an iPhone will want to carry it in EVERY situation.
    I agree with you completely. I was just noting that iPhone users will be able to switch out their SIMs just like anyone else (probably). Your blue-collar worker, school kid etc should all be fine
    06-29-2007 04:43 AM
  20. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    OK, I think I have the answer from the horse's mouth, which is better than hearsay. Looks like all you need to do is get an iPhone data plan and you can use the phone if you already have a contract.

    http://www.apple.com/iphone/easysetup/rateplans.html

    So I guess you can move your existing SIM over after the phone is activated, since they claim you can pop open the SIM door with a pin.
    06-29-2007 04:46 AM
  21. marcol's Avatar
    But now that it would seem the news is out regarding the removable SIM in the iPhone, one can't imagine leaks of soon-to-be customers reporting they got AT&T to unlock their iPhone are too far behind.
    I'm not sure it's the most unexpected of news to be honest. I seem to recall that removable and interchangeable SIMs is a long-standing part of the GSM standard. Can anyone confirm?
    06-29-2007 04:47 AM
  22. marcol's Avatar
    Pic of SIM removal:

    06-29-2007 05:12 AM
  23. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    From that article Marcol posted, some things make me wonder what they were thinking. Just basic stuff is missing that you don't expect from a $600 phone.
    06-29-2007 05:14 AM
  24. bruckwine's Avatar
    Generally speaking, a carrier will submit to unlocking a device if you're travelling somewhere like this. You just have to put up some fuss about it. But now that it would seem the news is out regarding the removable SIM in the iPhone, one can't imagine leaks of soon-to-be customers reporting they got AT&T to unlock their iPhone are too far behind.
    Well i hope you're right taroliw and that they WILL unlock it for ppl who have to go to Burma etc on work trips for months - but if they don't and require work fees then that'd be a real bummer...cuz then we won't see any unlocked versions on sale - that's how I plan to get version 2.0/3.0 if it doesn't come to the Caribbean thru local company like Cable & Wireless by 2008/9
    06-29-2007 05:58 AM
  25. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    That article claims they'll just make you pay international roaming rates. I hope that isn't true.
    06-29-2007 06:09 AM
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