1. surur's Avatar
    Sarcasm aside, I know it is tough for you but try big guy, do you really think the majority of people who buy GSM phones buy them not because the phone has great features but because they can always swap out chips?
    Being able to swap out the SIM is a great feature.

    Surur
    06-28-2007 11:36 AM
  2. dstrauss#IM's Avatar
    Being able to swap out the SIM is a great feature.

    Surur
    AGREED! :thumbsup:

    If Apple and AT&T are trying to reverse that advantage, a pox on both their houses.:thumbsdn:
    06-28-2007 11:45 AM
  3. taroliw's Avatar
    Why is it either or?
    Exactly. The ability to change providers, change phones, move between countries and temporarily use local service instead of paying international rates from your usual carrier... there are lots of reasons GSM's use of a SIM is better than a fixed device identity of CDMA. But this is just one factor in the choice of a device or service.

    For some, speed will be most important... so some will go to EVDO since HSDPA isn't widespread in the U.S. But, for me, I'd rather retain the functionality and flexibility GSM offers, even if it does mean I have to live with EDGE speeds. YMMV

    And, by the way, this would also be a reason for me not to buy the iPhone... no accessible SIM slot.
    06-28-2007 12:33 PM
  4. sxtg's Avatar
    Swapping sims would be the ONLY factor I would consider switching to GSM for.
    06-28-2007 12:40 PM
  5. marcol's Avatar
    However, I would like to know if once activated then can you swap SIMs?
    From David Pogue's recent FAQ:

    Can I use a SIM card from another phone? The iPhone comes with an installed SIM card, the tiny circuit board that stores your account information and phone number. Apple says that you should be able to replace it with any recent AT&T card, once you activate it in iTunes. No other companys SIM card works in the iPhone.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/28/te...rssnyt&emc=rss

    Sounds like there's nothing extraordinary here, no special SIM or anything. It's just locked.
    06-28-2007 02:26 PM
  6. dstrauss#IM's Avatar
    Well, since all SIM cards have the same dimensions and specs (other than availalble ROM size), then someone's eventually going to unlock it...
    06-28-2007 02:40 PM
  7. marcol's Avatar
    Other then Jason Bourne who really swaps SIM chips between devices?
    That's a good question. I really can't think of any other movies at all, which is strange because in real life people do it rather a lot.
    06-28-2007 02:46 PM
  8. robbrick's Avatar
    Until then, I'm still going to try one out. You can always return it.
    Just remember that there is a 10% restocking fee if you open the box. Also, the return period is 14 days. No being able to try this out for 30 days like any other ATT phone and return it with no fee if you don't like it.
    06-28-2007 02:46 PM
  9. llarson's Avatar
    That's a good question. I really can't think of any other movies at all, which is strange because in real life people do it rather a lot.
    and by most people I mean the silent majority not the phone aficionado here, only switch out a SIM when the store clerk does it for them when they might buy a new phone.

    Not saying switching chips isn't a nice feature but I think a majority of people will not care if they can switch SIMs in the iPHONE.

    My opinion as I have no data to back it up but as with most things discussed here we are usually outside the mainstream.
    06-28-2007 02:54 PM
  10. surur's Avatar
    In UK things are different.

    Surur
    06-28-2007 02:57 PM
  11. dstrauss#IM's Avatar
    Just remember that there is a 10% restocking fee if you open the box. Also, the return period is 14 days. No being able to try this out for 30 days like any other ATT phone and return it with no fee if you don't like it.
    Gee, I'll just wait two weeks for the discounted refurbs...
    06-28-2007 03:01 PM
  12. archie's Avatar
    Sarcasm aside, I know it is tough for you but try big guy, do you really think the majority of people who buy GSM phones buy them not because the phone has great features but because they can always swap out chips?
    Don't care whether it allows me to swap the chip or not.
    I just use GSM because I can use it anywhere in the world (mostly). Except for Japan.

    I was looking at one of theose recent AT&T page updates and I see taht they will let you use the iPhones SIM card in other phones and they specifically mention that you have full use of IM and MMS should any phone use it (along with the unlimited data). THAT is encouraging.

    I must admit, I had my doubts about these arriving on the iPhone because of AT&T restrictions, but this doesn't sound like a restriction at all.
    06-28-2007 03:56 PM
  13. Malatesta's Avatar
    Don't care whether it allows me to swap the chip or not.
    I just use GSM because I can use it anywhere in the world (mostly). Except for Japan.
    The downside is now you have to pay AT&T international roaming charges, vs. picking up a local or pre-paid SIM card. That might get expesnive, which is a shame for those who want this as a "world phone". I suppose though that is not important to you either.
    06-28-2007 03:58 PM
  14. archie's Avatar
    The downside is now you have to pay AT&T international roaming charges, vs. picking up a local or pre-paid SIM card. That might get expesnive, which is a shame for those who want this as a "world phone". I suppose though that is not important to you either.
    Not when I can charge it.
    06-28-2007 04:01 PM
  15. surur's Avatar
    I just use GSM because I can use it anywhere in the world (mostly). Except for Japan. .
    Now just think, if the iPhone had 3G you could use it in Japan too.

    Surur
    06-28-2007 04:02 PM
  16. glenada's Avatar
    "But then again, our country loves to go into debt for instant gratification..." So true!
    06-28-2007 04:13 PM
  17. archie's Avatar
    The downside is now you have to pay AT&T international roaming charges, vs. picking up a local or pre-paid SIM card. That might get expesnive, which is a shame for those who want this as a "world phone". I suppose though that is not important to you either.
    You know, alot of these things you harp on and continually bring up and just burn into the gound, over and over, like there is no stopping because you can't let it go, time and time again, around the clock, day and night, incessantly, ceaselessly, endlessly,repeating yourself... a lot of them are not real issues (at the very least are negligible and certainly worth sacrificing). But like this cutting and pasting issue, the iPhone has it but it just works differently. For example, you can send text from app to app like say "Notes" to "Mail" with a click of a button - its just not called cutting and pasting and reduces the number of clicks from 4 to just 1. So instead of complaining and making an issue out of it without warrant, try realizing what the facts are before you scream "the sky is falling, the sky is falling, the sky is falling, the sky is falling, the sky is falling, the sky is falling, the sky is falling, the sky is falling, the sky is falling..."


    Now having said that, I agree that no Flash support is dumb and I wish I knew for certain that there would be interoperability with .Mac and maybe even Leopard's "Back To Mac".

    The lack of OTA syncing is kind of a luxury sore spot but I can certainly make due. The only other thing that might be kind of nice is MMS; BUT, as I mentioned above, I have to believe Apple will bring this soon given this newly discovered info fro AT&T.

    I also wish there would be games released for it. You know these are coming though, there will be an SDK too!
    06-28-2007 04:16 PM
  18. archie's Avatar
    Now just think, if the iPhone had 3G you could use it in Japan too.

    Surur
    No you couldn't. It would still be GSM.
    06-28-2007 04:17 PM
  19. glenada's Avatar
    I chip switch, not only to protect my Blackjack (it was still expensive when I bought it) but it has allowed me to try lots of different phones over the last few years (and keep my grandfathered unlimited Medianet) unlike my Sprint days when you nearly had to beg SPrint to let you change phones.
    I switch my SIM card sometimes from my 680 to my Blackjack or my Motorola V3x. I love trying new phones -- most likely the main reason I stay with GSM.
    06-28-2007 04:19 PM
  20. archie's Avatar
    Here's my list of positives that no other phone has which is justification for me in sacrificing a couple of features.


    1. It's Mac friendly.
    2. Revolutionary touch interface
    3. Two-finger stretching gesture
    4. Two-finger tap-to-zoom out gesture
    5. Two-finger pinching gesture
    6. One-finger double-tap-to-zoom in gesture
    7. One-finger scrolling gesture
    8. One-finger flicking gesture
    9. One-finger swiping/sweeping (depends on the context) gesture
    10. One button design - that lone button on the bottom of the phone will take you back to the home screen, provide quick accessibility to the iPhone's list of applications, provide a quick escape from the depths of any application or settings screen and act as a clean up/clean start tool - all with one quick press.
    11. Large 3.5 inch screen. Biggest camera view screen ever made.
    12. Thinnest phone available anywhere.
    13. High resolution screen provides 160 pixels per inch
    14. The most readable text (fonts) of any handheld device ever made.
    15. Largest dialing keypad available on any mobile phone for easy number entry
    16. The stability and reliability and security that comes with OS X and LLVM.
    17. That incredible scrolling with rubber band effects mirroring real physics effects
    18. THE BEST mobile browsing experience... period.
    19. Easiest conference call management I have ever seen.
    20. A true web applications platform for a mobile phone. With Safari, now apps can be developed for any desktop computer and the iPhone.
    21. Internet content is not determined by the carrier (who wants to sell the user something), as is the case with every other phone that can utilize the internet.
    22. Coolest implementation of Google Maps I have ever seen.
    23. Access to YouTube videos with no extra charge. This is unlike other offerings where carries have mobile video plans that use the walled garden approach: accessible only with a monthly charge and giving only short clips.
    24. Widgets and applications that provide quick, good-looking and easy to use net based services.
    25. Push-IMAP support like a Blackberry, not that fake pushing either.
    26. Continual surveying of wi-fi availability with automatic switching. Previously joined networks are quietly and seamless connected to.
    27. Appropriate and usable visual cues within the slickest user interface I have ever seen.
    28. It doesn't have carrier logos plastered all over it.
    29. It uses a quad-band GSM radio which allows it to be used in every country except Japan.
    30. Context sensitive keyboard that pops up when needed. This is extremely useful and really well done.
    31. Bizarre and unheard of concepts like "touching your music" and "Visual Voicemail" (random access) actually make sense in using the iPhone.
    32. Voice mail scrubbing. Lets you scrub through the voice mail timeline to quickly get to where you want.
    33. Voice mail is sent to you - like push e-mail. You can listen to and review your voice mail on a train or on a plane, without the need of carrier reception.
    34. Coverflow browsing of music and media. Plus, you can flick an album and it spins around to reveal the song list to choose from on the back... just like physical albums.
    35. The iPhone screen faade can actually be quickly and simply wiped clean with its unique edgeless, no-bezel design. This is to say nothing of the specially selected screen material chosen for use with grimy, greasy fingers.
    36. An external speaker (for speakerphone functionality AND iPod use) that doesn't get covered up when you lay it down like every other phone on the market. Thank you.
    37. iPhone's antenna is located in the back part of the phone at the very bottom. Very considerate for those with radiation concerns. Never understood why manufacturers continue placing the antenna as close to your head as possible.
    38. Fully charged battery will provide up to 6 hours of internet use, 7 hours of video playback, 8 hours of talk time, 24 hours of audio playback, 250 hours of standby time This is unbelievable performance.
    39. Context sensitive, smoothly transforming control surfaces provide an intuitive user interface.
    40. Big bubble editing lets you touch and hold the screen to get a zoomed in area of text for precise cursor placement with your finger.
    41. The keyboard - I know a little bit about what they are doing to make this unique keyboard a success. Every little space on that screen is tracking and measuring and relating to every other little space. There is a great deal of processing power required JUST for the simple act of typing. And reading how your finger hits the screen and what part of your finger hits first and the total amount of space that it hits all in an effort to account for inaccuracies. There is a lot of research that has been done here. They even take into account a person's inability to accurately predict what part of their finger actually hits the screen. It seems that we fail to take into account the curve of our finger and how it actually hits the screen based on the overhead view we have in watching the screen as we type. Then of course there is the software based auto-correcting type of feature that analyzes which keys you MIGHT have meant to hit and figures out the word you wanted. And then of course word prediction. To this end, word prediction itself is also used in conjunction with a process of dynamically enlarging tap zones behind the scenes for virtually larger keys.
    06-28-2007 04:19 PM
  21. surur's Avatar
    No you couldn't. It would still be GSM.
    3G UMTS phones (like the Treo 750) work in Japan.

    Surur
    06-28-2007 04:19 PM
  22. bruckwine's Avatar
    Other then Jason Bourne who really swaps SIM chips between devices? Remember the people on this board are in the minority so I was wondering what percentage of people who buy GSM phones really buy them with the selling point that they can just switch chips?

    As an aside, since the chip switch is a no go with the iPHONE I was told you will be able to migrate your contacts and such to the iPHONE through a program some how?

    Of course it is an extra $15 bucks!!!


    Always the dollars!
    That's a good question. I really can't think of any other movies at all, which is strange because in real life people do it rather a lot.
    ROTFLMAO!
    06-28-2007 04:22 PM
  23. surur's Avatar

    11. Large 3.5 inch screen. Biggest camera view screen ever made.

    12. Thinnest phone available anywhere.

    14. The most readable text (fonts) of any handheld device ever made.

    15. Largest dialing keypad available on any mobile phone for easy number entry

    18. THE BEST mobile browsing experience... period.

    21. Internet content is not determined by the carrier (who wants to sell the user something), as is the case with every other phone that can utilize the internet.

    23. Access to YouTube videos with no extra charge. This is unlike other offerings where carries have mobile video plans that use the walled garden approach: accessible only with a monthly charge and giving only short clips.
    25. Push-IMAP support like a Blackberry, not that fake pushing

    35. The iPhone screen faade can actually be quickly and simply wiped clean with its unique edgeless, no-bezel design. This is to say nothing of the specially selected screen material chosen for use with grimy, greasy fingers.

    36. An external speaker (for speakerphone functionality AND iPod use) that doesn't get covered up when you lay it down like every other phone on the market.

    Thank you.
    You are wrong in all of the above. If you are going to use superlatives you better be very sure you are right.

    Surur
    06-28-2007 04:27 PM
  24. archie's Avatar
    You are wrong in all of the above.

    Surur
    What are you talking about? You just randomly picked those out.



    I am giving you a chance to tell me why they are wrong.
    06-28-2007 04:30 PM
  25. duanedude1's Avatar
    I understand that Palm gives us one-finger gestures as well!


    The middle finger, that is!
    06-28-2007 04:33 PM
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