1. robbrick's Avatar
    I don't need GPS on a handheld device either. Last year I was in San Francisco (I live in Los Angeles). I wanted to find a nice place to eat, so I whipped out my BB Pearl (my device at the time) and opened Google Maps and viola! I found a Houston's restaurant. In my opinion, I don't want to carry around another device (GPS puck) and I just know how to read a map and get around. All that was needed to find this restaurant was to figure out where I was and which direction the restaurant was. I found it without a problem in a city that I am unfamiliar with. Plus for driving, I have it already in my Acura.
    06-25-2007 11:14 AM
  2. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Advantages of handheld GPS:

    1) You can use it when not in your car. The prospect of never being lost and always being able to find a destination provided you have some basic address information is quite nice.

    2) AFAIK the handheld software is much more flexible. I'm thinking in particular of the ability to add POI and specifically the speed camera database from these guys:

    http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/modules.php?name=Cameras#

    Pretty much an essential for me. If you're not in the UK, your mileage (and the chance of being snapped doing it) may vary.
    I have in car navigation, which is great.

    But I never use a mobile GPS, unless I am in the great outdoors.

    The Treo 700WX with MS Live and/or Google Maps works just fine when I am in a new city.

    True, it might not be as flexbile as mobile GPS, but the added bulk is not worth it to me.
    06-25-2007 11:35 AM
  3. Dim-Ize's Avatar
    I don't need GPS on a handheld device either...I don't want to carry around another device (GPS puck) and I just know how to read a map and get around.
    I agree, Dimens. I don't want to carry around another device (GPS puck).

    But, that's the point. If it were integrated into the phone, you wouldn't have to.
    06-25-2007 11:45 AM
  4. robbrick's Avatar
    True. But I have never owned a phone that had it built in, so I don't really know the impact of how it would suit me or not. Right now, I just use Google Maps to get phone numbers and addresses instead of calling 411.
    06-25-2007 11:54 AM
  5. littlewaywelt's Avatar
    I was going to pick this up for my wife, but I think I've finally seen my deal killer, but will wait for sure. She'd use it for simple contact use, calendar, email and web. She doesn't need an 1/8th of what a treo will do and would have benefited from the likely very user friendly interface and probably 99% increase in reliability over a treo,
    BUT
    You can only scroll through contacts and can't search by typing a name or company name? I have 750 contacts many ppl have a couple thousand in their treos. That's rediculous. If you can't easily make a call from your contacts, what's the point. I guess you could watch a movie while it scrolls through?
    06-25-2007 11:55 AM
  6. mikec#IM's Avatar
    I was going to pick this up for my wife, but I think I've finally seen my deal killer, but will wait for sure. She'd use it for simple contact use, calendar, email and web. She doesn't need an 1/8th of what a treo will do and would have benefited from the likely very user friendly interface and probably 99% increase in reliability over a treo,
    BUT
    You can only scroll through contacts and can't search by typing a name or company name? I have 750 contacts many ppl have a couple thousand in their treos. That's rediculous. If you can't easily make a call from your contacts, what's the point. I guess you could watch a movie while it scrolls through?
    Typing the first few letters of a contact name is critical...this is one thing MS got right in WM5.

    If iPhone doesn't allow this, it be a pain for those that have hundreds of contracts. I have to believe they would have this option...
    06-25-2007 12:03 PM
  7. Gee-Man's Avatar
    This is one area in which I genuinely hope the iPhone will do really well - change the corporate mobile email game with push email. From what I've read, iPhone will support an open standard for push IMAP email, so if it's successful, it may open the door a crack and start to weaken the Exchange and Blackberry dominance.

    Blackberrys are very nice devices, but I don't like the fact that I have such limited choices in mobile phones when it comes to push email because the server end is proprietary. It would be far better for the industry if everybody used the same standard just like good ol' IMAP, and I'm not forced to choose a specific smartphone vendor for something that seems so basic as getting emails as soon as they arrive.

    I don't have 100% faith this will actually happen, but I'm hoping all those corporate CEO's who buy iPhones by the handful will actually do the market some good for a change by inadvertently forcing IT departments to use open standards. Or, if push IMAP becomes a consumer email standard where anybody can get their push email without having a company setting it up for them, then corporate IT will have that much more pressure to use the open standard.
    06-25-2007 12:57 PM
  8. llarson's Avatar
    IT depts will do whatwver their business wants, and if hooking up $600 PMP's to their network is what the execs want, so be it. I just thing when they have to sign off on the costs and risks, many will pause.

    The iPhone is an entertainment device/toy. It is not a "productivity" enhancer.

    GMAFB
    It is amazing how many people consider the way they do business as the end all be all of how a person MUST work to get ahead.

    For those of you who type hundreds of 8 word emails from; Call me later, The price is $xxxxx, and Check out my Slingbox! this might not be the phone for you.

    If you get your email through exchange and have to have your latest calendar appointment of "stop and get milk" updated that second to your phone and computer the iPHONE isn't for you.

    If you are part of a small business not running EXCHANGE and you get all your email via POP or IMAP and you don't need, still wonder how many people actually edit that 500 column excel spreadsheet on their phones in real life anyways, to edit attachments but just want to review them and you send 40 to 50 emails a day of the 8 word type above or longer the iPHONE should work fine.

    You can't make an assumption on how the keyboard works until you have it your hand. Who the hell knows who they had offer their opinion for the article. Could have been Surur and his faithful side-kick Kupe for all we know.

    Everyone does business differently. Just because the iPHONE doesn't fit in your little box of what a business phone needs or should do doesn't mean it won't work perfect for others.

    The EDGE speed is a big issue for everyone I feel.
    06-25-2007 01:37 PM
  9. llarson's Avatar
    The iPhone is a device, Microsoft is a software company. This is like asking someone to show you what computer Microsoft has built that trumps the iMac. I only write this because you seem to be a bit naive on the subject.

    However, WM devices trump the iPhone all to pieces. Push email (and calendar) from corporate servers is a clear trump. One-handed use is a clear trump. removable battery is a clear trump. One-handed keyboarding by feel (rather than two-handed typing by visual confirmation) is a clear trump. User memory expandability is a clear trump. On the entertainment side, a lack of broadband by the iPhone pretty well eliminates music streaming and video playback (a la slingbox or the like) - yet another clear trump. The sheer volume of third party software is a clear trump. Trump after trump after trump.

    To be fair, iPhone gets a clear trump on prettiness - it a very pretty device. Call it the "Blonde Bombshell" of mobile devices - very nice to look at - very smooth interface (if you don't mind two-handed interfaces). Just don't try to engage it intellectually.

    Playing music, taking pictures, calling people, reading email, all pretty much a wash.


    http://www.salagram.net/end1.jpg
    06-25-2007 01:41 PM
  10. Dim-Ize's Avatar
    It is amazing how many people consider the way they do business as the end all be all of how a person MUST work to get ahead....

    Everyone does business differently. Just because the iPHONE doesn't fit in your little box of what a business phone needs or should do doesn't mean it won't work perfect for others.

    The EDGE speed is a big issue for everyone I feel.
    I think this sums it up nicely. It isn't for everyone since we all have different / specific needs. I think some of the animosity comes from the fact that the GUI and form factor are elegant. Many of us wish those two items alone were present on our handhelds to enhance our experience and enjoyment of the device which we depend on.

    I for one will not be getting the phone for the specific reasons you mention - EDGE and EAS. But, I greatly admire the design and engineering of the iPhone and I believe it will push the other manufacturers to step up their form factor design and GUI's - as well as the fact that there will be a second, third and fourth + version of the iPhone which will incorporate these other advantages. So, it is a win - win on both sides for us in terms of a move forward upgrade path.

    That's why, IMHO, the launch of this device is great for us whether we buy one or not. Because it will force the manufacturers to change in order to compete. I welcome this product launch even though it doesn't meet my current requirements.
    06-25-2007 01:47 PM
  11. llarson's Avatar
    Of course the battery is removable. Its not made by Apple, is it.

    Surur


    In protest of the hype of the iPHONE Surur lights himself on fire and attempts to rush inside an APPLE store to stop the "INSANITY".
    06-25-2007 01:49 PM
  12. surur's Avatar
    Who the hell knows who they had offer their opinion for the article. Could have been Surur and his faithful side-kick Kupe for all we know.
    Ive been elevated to an Engadget trusted source, have I?

    You know, I could construct all my comments from comments cut and pasted from Macrumours, where many Apple users are also severely underwhelmed by how limited the IPhone is.

    Surur
    06-25-2007 01:52 PM
  13. llarson's Avatar
    What was the take on that phone which didn't have a keyboard?

    Anyone have some info?

    Very different phones but was the fact the I330 didn't have a keyboard a problem?
    06-25-2007 01:58 PM
  14. mikec#IM's Avatar
    It is amazing how many people consider the way they do business as the end all be all of how a person MUST work to get ahead.

    For those of you who type hundreds of 8 word emails from; Call me later, The price is $xxxxx, and Check out my Slingbox! this might not be the phone for you.

    If you get your email through exchange and have to have your latest calendar appointment of "stop and get milk" updated that second to your phone and computer the iPHONE isn't for you.

    If you are part of a small business not running EXCHANGE and you get all your email via POP or IMAP and you don't need, still wonder how many people actually edit that 500 column excel spreadsheet on their phones in real life anyways, to edit attachments but just want to review them and you send 40 to 50 emails a day of the 8 word type above or longer the iPHONE should work fine.

    You can't make an assumption on how the keyboard works until you have it your hand. Who the hell knows who they had offer their opinion for the article. Could have been Surur and his faithful side-kick Kupe for all we know.

    Everyone does business differently. Just because the iPHONE doesn't fit in your little box of what a business phone needs or should do doesn't mean it won't work perfect for others.

    The EDGE speed is a big issue for everyone I feel.
    At least we agree on EDGE.

    As for what is "business", I think people tend to use that in reference to large companies with IT depts, etc. True, small and medium businesses are a huge factor, but that not what people are mainly aiming for when they use the term "business user".

    It's still primarily a toy - come on, how is listening to music or videos related to business? (unless you are in the industry). Let's face it - it's a way for people to eff off and avoid work.

    I'm not saying it's not good to have toys....but let's not get carried away.
    06-25-2007 02:17 PM
  15. llarson's Avatar
    At least we agree on EDGE.

    As for what is "business", I think people tend to use that in reference to large companies with IT depts, etc. True, small and medium businesses are a huge factor, but that not what people are mainly aiming for when they use the term "business user".

    It's still primarily a toy - come on, how is listening to music or videos related to business? (unless you are in the industry). Let's face it - it's a way for people to eff off and avoid work.

    I'm not saying it's not good to have toys....but let's not get carried away.
    Shame on all those who do and on a phone more then likely thier company paid for.

    SHAME
    06-25-2007 02:30 PM
  16. surur's Avatar
    Shame on all those who do and on a phone more then likely thier company paid for.

    SHAME
    Yes, I heard those blackberries are great media devices...

    Surur
    06-25-2007 02:35 PM
  17. oalvarez's Avatar
    i know this doesn't matter but i still do not think that EDGE is as bad as some make it out to be. i carry a blackberry pearl these days and when it comes time to having to view some headlines, use google, or access a website, the experience seems to be more than adequate. yes, i have used both EVDO and 3G products so i do know what that experience feels like as well. i will say that i don't download large apps or the like.

    having said that, if internet browsing and watching video is your thing then yes, i can understand the need for that kind of bandwidth/speed. my issue is that so many current devices don't offer such (Treos would be one) and people seem to get along without it. would it be a nice feature to have? yes. could the iPhone internet browsing experience actually feel faster than that of a Treo or Blackberry holding all else (edge) constant? i suppose we'll know the answer to that question in soon time.
    06-25-2007 03:28 PM
  18. Dim-Ize's Avatar
    I just left T-MO and EDGE.

    I can't go back - anymore than I can go back to using dial-up on my home PC.
    06-25-2007 03:37 PM
  19. braj's Avatar
    The point is the iPhone will likely feel slower on the same network because it won't default to a mobile page, if available, and it doesn't use a proxy like Opera to optimize content for mobile devices. So while Edge is ok on my Treo where I look for mobile sites, often get mobile sites without looking, and don't try to do multimedia much at all, on the iPhone these are the features that sell the device (the whole internet, remember?) and when people try and use them over Edge it will perform poorly. Smart iPhone users will know better than to try accessing the whole NYT over Edge but the people who believe the hype and expect the best mobile experience ever will likely be a bit upset about it.

    Saying this isn't important would be like expecting people to but a Mac desktop that can only use dialup access. When consumers understand this difference en masse it will likely end up hurting sales as people start waiting for 3G. I would expect a 3G device soon but the fact there isn't one now has to be seen as disappointing. Early adopters will suffer from crippled devices.
    06-25-2007 03:38 PM
  20. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Yes, I heard those blackberries are great media devices...

    Surur
    Ka-pow!
    06-25-2007 03:45 PM
  21. MacUser's Avatar
    I would expect a 3G device soon but the fact there isn't one now has to be seen as disappointing. Early adopters will suffer from crippled devices.
    If you had to guess, how long would you estimate a 2nd Gen iPhone with 3G capability?
    06-25-2007 04:58 PM
  22. dstrauss#IM's Avatar
    If you had to guess, how long would you estimate a 2nd Gen iPhone with 3G capability?
    I still say Christmas 2007 for the iPhone Ultra (3G) and iPhone Nano (small narrow screen).
    06-25-2007 05:05 PM
  23. llarson's Avatar
    Ka-pow!
    ZING-BAM-ZOOM Mikec,

    Your argument that the iPHONE is to much geared towards entertainment and is more like a XBOX and will hinder people from being productive is unfounded.

    What do you base it on your work habits? Then you should avoid it at all cost if having the ability to listen to music and watch videos will keep you from getting your work done.

    Again most of the iPHONE haters who say it can not be used as a business tool make this statement based on their own work environment.

    The iPHONE will be used by many as a business tool and they will love it, IMHO. We will have to wait several months to see if I am right though.

    By the way Mikec do you have Sling Box on your 700WX and does it make you less productive. We won't tell your boss HONEST!
    06-25-2007 05:45 PM
  24. mikec#IM's Avatar
    ZING-BAM-ZOOM Mikec,

    Your argument that the iPHONE is to much geared towards entertainment and is more like a XBOX and will hinder people from being productive is unfounded.

    What do you base it on your work habits? Then you should avoid it at all cost if having the ability to listen to music and watch videos will keep you from getting your work done.

    Again most of the iPHONE haters who say it can not be used as a business tool make this statement based on their own work environment.

    The iPHONE will be used by many as a business tool and they will love it, IMHO. We will have to wait several months to see if I am right though.

    By the way Mikec do you have Sling Box on your 700WX and does it make you less productive. We won't tell your boss HONEST!
    Not an iPhone hater, just a realist.

    I pay for my Treo with Sling, so I can do whatever the heck I want.

    And no, I don't watch at work...just a wee bit too busy.
    06-25-2007 05:52 PM
  25. MacUser's Avatar
    I still say Christmas 2007 for the iPhone Ultra (3G) and iPhone Nano (small narrow screen).
    It's that type of prediction that makes me pause and wonder if I should try to pick one up Friday. It would be really tough to rationalize spending another six bills six months later.... :hmm:
    06-25-2007 07:48 PM
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