1. braj's Avatar
    For all the apple haters, show me something microsoft has done which trumps the iphone.
    Even my old dumbphone trumps the iPhone at least in three areas - chat, MMS and 3rd party apps. It actually even has a movie-editing app (when will iMovie make it to the iPhone?)

    I'm not an Apple hater by a long shot, just not in illusion that the iPhone is the best mobile device with the most features ever created. It is just another phone with it's own benefits and drawbacks. It could be best for some people and terrible for others. Apple's hype and the fanboy's rantings say otherwise so here we are discussing it.
    06-24-2007 04:16 PM
  2. Munir's Avatar
    In 5 years, we will also have more advanced versions of the iPhone. I have been looking forward to this device, and appreciate how it has shaken things up. There have been a lot of criticisms about this phone that assume it will not be evolving or new features won't continue to be unveiled even for the 1st gen. model. Apple is playing it safe so that things don't get all mucked up, but we can be sure that (unlike Palm) they will respond to market demands from a technology and user-experience standpoint.

    Open carrier temporary? I thought AT&T had a 5 year lock. In 5 years, we will have smartphones that are far more advanced/functional.
    06-24-2007 04:29 PM
  3. bruckwine's Avatar
    For all the apple haters, show me something microsoft has done which trumps the iphone.
    And what do you mean by "trump"? If it takes functionality to trump something I'd say any phone that came out in the past year or two. if you mean oooh-aaaah coolness factor then as it IS the latest thing not many..for now. But then again i don't buy things for coolness myself - fads pass away.

    For my money I like function, e.g. an XBox 360 or a Wii are in the same range as a desktop PC yet you can play as many if not more games on the PC plus be much more productive (though if you get the formers you can go down the block and say "ooh-aah! I have a Wii")- if I had none and someone gave me $600 I'll go for a PC every time.

    Why is MICROSOFT the focus of your question? This isn't a PC debate so to speak and there are other (and bigger maybe) players e.g. Symbian OS. And note I use both macs and pcs..done so for nigh on 6 yrs now.
    06-24-2007 04:34 PM
  4. treobk214's Avatar

    is that a phone? does it do email? web? does it have a virtual keyboard? sms?
    06-24-2007 04:36 PM
  5. treobk214's Avatar
    Even my old dumbphone trumps the iPhone at least in three areas - chat, MMS and 3rd party apps. It actually even has a movie-editing app (when will iMovie make it to the iPhone?)

    I'm not an Apple hater by a long shot, just not in illusion that the iPhone is the best mobile device with the most features ever created. It is just another phone with it's own benefits and drawbacks. It could be best for some people and terrible for others. Apple's hype and the fanboy's rantings say otherwise so here we are discussing it.
    Youve just described every type of phone. EVERY phone has its own benefits and drawbacks.. whether it runs windows 6 or anything else. For all the anti-apple ranting here, you might as well categorize that as microsoft hype and fanboy rantings, right? please.
    06-24-2007 04:39 PM
  6. treobk214's Avatar
    And what do you mean by "trump"? If it takes functionality to trump something I'd say any phone that came out in the past year or two. if you mean oooh-aaaah coolness factor then as it IS the latest thing not many..for now. But then again i don't buy things for coolness myself - fads pass away.

    For my money I like function, e.g. an XBox 360 or a Wii are in the same range as a desktop PC yet you can play as many if not more games on the PC plus be much more productive (though if you get the formers you can go down the block and say "ooh-aah! I have a Wii")- if I had none and someone gave me $600 I'll go for a PC every time.

    Why is MICROSOFT the focus of your question? This isn't a PC debate so to speak and there are other (and bigger maybe) players e.g. Symbian OS. And note I use both macs and pcs..done so for nigh on 6 yrs now.
    Fads pass away, but innovation leads to enhancement and improved designs. Look at the treo. People said the same about that, but would you consider it a fad? How do you know this is just a fad, and that it wont lead to better more capable devices down the road? Do you have a crystal ball?
    06-24-2007 04:41 PM
  7. surur's Avatar
    Treobk214 - what are the great features of the IPhone?

    Surur
    06-24-2007 04:42 PM
  8. treobk214's Avatar
    Treobk214 - what are the great features of the IPhone?

    Surur
    ah, so quick to divert attention away from the questions at hand, eh surur?
    thats curious.
    06-24-2007 04:44 PM
  9. surur's Avatar
    ah, so quick to divert attention away from the questions at hand, eh surur?
    thats curious.
    Ive already answered your question (to which you did not actually respond). I am wondering what about the IPhone impresses you so much.

    Surur
    06-24-2007 04:45 PM
  10. treobk214's Avatar
    Sorry, but WM6 trumps the IPhone already.

    Surur
    Tell me, how does WM6 trump the iphone? To answer your question, I think the iphone is a very innovative new device. The multitouch technology is interesting. I think there is room for improvement, but i feel it`s the start of something very successful down the line for apple. EV-DO, availability with other carriers after the 2 year exclusivity contract, among other things. Its a cool device. Whats wrong with finding it to be an interesting product, surur?
    06-24-2007 04:45 PM
  11. oalvarez's Avatar
    i don't hate apple nor microsoft, but please show me anything interesting that Palm has done recently....
    06-24-2007 04:51 PM
  12. surur's Avatar
    tell me, how does WM6 trump the iphone?
    1) support 3rd party apps.
    2) supports 3G
    3) Exchange integration
    4) remote device management - remote wipe, remote policy enforcement
    5) You can search your contacts instead of having to scroll.
    6) support a wide variety of hardware.

    There's more but thats enough for now. Please now tell me
    a) why these do not trump the IPhone
    and
    b) how the IPhone trumps WM6.

    Surur
    06-24-2007 04:52 PM
  13. bruckwine's Avatar
    Fads pass away, but innovation leads to enhancement and improved designs. Look at the treo. People said the same about that, but would you consider it a fad? How do you know this is just a fad, and that it wont lead to better more capable devices down the road? Do you have a crystal ball?
    But what exactly is the innovation? Is it taking existing technologies (touchscreen,PMP, phone and putting it into a phone but not increasing the functionality (by exlcuding even more already-existing techonology - 3G, replaceable power units, hard keys)?

    Not in my book - it's a new gadget but not evolutionary or even revolutionary yet to me.

    The only thing I consider "new" is the multitouch and in my case it doesn't add ANY functionality (keys, scrollers and d-pads do the same thing), but it IS cool (I think I'd rather have that on my 20" apple monitor than a 3 " phone screen if you see what I mean) and a new way to do the same things on a phone. When they add in the total voice domination feature where I can stop using my hands to do stuff THEN I'll be impressed! Perhaps the OS is prettier and faster(?) but that is aesthetics really and things are slowly converging to that form.


    Looking at the iPhone there is nothing on it that would make me think..add that to my treo (or my TV, radio, fridge, monitor etc) and it will be more capable. It's like saying I can be more productive with multitouch.

    What Tom Cruise did in Minority report was nice (with the images and the orchestra movements of them) but it also looked like a pretty tiring way to look through 5-7 images on a screen!
    06-24-2007 04:54 PM
  14. oalvarez's Avatar
    hey, i got one....the iPhone's sleek design (lots less thin than the Treo). it's even less heavy. oops, that would be two.

    forgot, we're debating operating systems which consumer america really cares about.
    06-24-2007 04:55 PM
  15. surur's Avatar
    The multitouch technology is interesting. I think there is room for improvement,
    So this is the only feature, and this trumps everything MS has ever done? Your list is very short.

    Surur
    06-24-2007 04:55 PM
  16. treobk214's Avatar
    1) support 3rd party apps.
    2) supports 3G
    3) Exchange integration
    4) remote device management - remote wipe, remote policy enforcement
    5) You can search your contacts instead of having to scroll.
    6) support a wide variety of hardware.

    There's more but thats enough for now. Please now tell me
    a) why these do not trump the IPhone
    and
    b) how the IPhone trumps WM6.

    Surur
    Youve given me the capabilities of wm6, but what DEVICE with wm6 out there has the ability to blow the iphone out of the water?
    06-24-2007 04:55 PM
  17. treobk214's Avatar
    So this is the only feature, and this trumps everything MS has ever done? Your list is very short.

    Surur
    So is your list of devices which trump the iphone.
    06-24-2007 04:57 PM
  18. surur's Avatar
    So is your list of devices which trump the iphone.
    That wasn't the question, was it? MS does not make phones. There are plenty pretty nice WM phones with much better specs than the IPhone.

    Surur
    06-24-2007 04:58 PM
  19. treobk214's Avatar
    But what exactly is the innovation? Is it taking existing technologies (touchscreen,PMP, phone and putting it into a phone but not increasing the functionality (by exlcuding even more already-existing techonology - 3G, replaceable power units, hard keys)?

    Not in my book - it's a new gadget but not evolutionary or even revolutionary yet to me.

    The only thing I consider "new" is the multitouch and in my case it doesn't add ANY functionality (keys, scrollers and d-pads do the same thing), but it IS cool (I think I'd rather have that on my 20" apple monitor than a 3 " phone screen if you see what I mean) and a new way to do the same things on a phone. When they add in the total voice domination feature where I can stop using my hands to do stuff THEN I'll be impressed! Perhaps the OS is prettier and faster(?) but that is aesthetics really and things are slowly converging to that form.


    Looking at the iPhone there is nothing on it that would make me think..add that to my treo (or my TV, radio, fridge, monitor etc) and it will be more capable. It's like saying I can be more productive with multitouch.

    What Tom Cruise did in Minority report was nice (with the images and the orchestra movements of them) but it also looked like a pretty tiring way to look through 5-7 images on a screen!

    You could say the same thing about a device with a tiny little keyboard - a tiring way of typing out messages.
    06-24-2007 04:59 PM
  20. treobk214's Avatar
    That wasn't the question, was it? MS does not make phones. There are plenty pretty nice WM phones with much better specs than the IPhone.

    Surur

    That WAS the quesition. Go back and read. Show me something microsoft has done which trumps the iphone. I also asked for a list of devices with better specs AND form factor while we are at it, than the iphone.
    06-24-2007 05:00 PM
  21. surur's Avatar
    Youve given me the capabilities of wm6, but what DEVICE with wm6 out there has the ability to blow the iphone out of the water?
    The HTC Advantage has a bigger, higher resolution screen, built-in GPS, HSDPA and a 8GB HDD. Thats just one example.

    The HTC Kaiser has HSDPA, GPS, a nice keyboard, and an innovative tilt screen.

    etc etc.

    Surur
    06-24-2007 05:02 PM
  22. surur's Avatar
    That WAS the quesition. Go back and read. Show me something microsoft has done which trumps the iphone. I also asked for a list of devices with better specs AND form factor while we are at it, than the iphone.
    You keep moving the goal posts, dont you. My HTC Touch is smaller than the IPhone, takes 4GB transflash cards, and has all the management functions inherent in WM6.

    Surur
    06-24-2007 05:04 PM
  23. treobk214's Avatar
    You keep moving the goal posts, dont you.

    Surur
    Oh wow, I REALLY pulled a fast one on you there, didnt I? You folks are priceless.

    Form factor IS what helps make smartphones or cellphones in general for that matter more appealing is it not? In the iphone`s case, it seems to possess that at this point. It appears to be much thinner than most devices out there, no? This is one way in which the iphone is more attractive in some ways than the thicker, bulkier bricks that many phones with wm6 onboard. For the general public, it is reasonable to say that form factor is one of the critical features which will make or break the success of a phone.

    If you dont care about form factor, than buying a brick is really not a problem is it? But if form factor is high on the list of desires, than the iphone does appear to have an edge on many windows mobile devices at least in this category. There is room for improvement on the specs of the iphone, but my stance on it is that it is not a bad first phone for apple. I am looking forward to 2nd and 3rd generations.
    06-24-2007 05:05 PM
  24. braj's Avatar
    Youve just described every type of phone. EVERY phone has its own benefits and drawbacks.. whether it runs windows 6 or anything else. For all the anti-apple ranting here, you might as well categorize that as microsoft hype and fanboy rantings, right? please.
    No, I just showed you how nearly every phone trumps the iPhone in three ways. You aren't that dumb, are you? You ask to show how iPhone is trumped by WM and I showed you how it is trumped by nearly everything in three ways. Admit it.
    06-24-2007 05:16 PM
  25. bruckwine's Avatar
    Oh wow, I REALLY pulled a fast one on you there, didnt I? You folks are priceless.

    Form factor IS what helps make smartphones or cellphones in general for that matter more appealing is it not? In the iphone`s case, it seems to possess that at this point. It appears to be much thinner than most devices out there, no? Well than this is just another factor which makes the iphone more attractive in some ways than the thicker, bulkier bricks that many phones with wm6 onboard. For the general public, it is reasonable to say that form factor is one of the critical features which will make or break the success of a phone.

    If you dont care about form factor, than buying a brick is really not a problem is it? But if form factor is high on the list of desires, than the iphone does appear to have an edge on many windows mobile devices at least in this category.
    Is it? So once it fits your hand it's the best is it? ?I think you're confusing the improvements ppl demand on good products with appeal...for most ppl a device that has good form will not appeal if it stinks (see the fall of the razr). Also (imo) the form factor of the iPhone ( square adn brick itself) isn't that hot..it weight is on par with BBs, treos and such so it isn't much lighter and it's longer in the face. TBH if I wanted form the BB Curve loks the most hand-suitable phone out there (imo) but that is minor compared to function.

    Smartphones have never had superior form factor (due to what they need to be "smart") so I'm not sure where you're heading with that.

    I think you'd be better arguing that the increased screen real estate and multitouch will be it's most appealing features vs other phones!
    06-24-2007 05:18 PM
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