1. Certs's Avatar
    C'mon chaps, we could bicker back and forth like this for hours, but you know and I know that this product is absolutely not designed for the enterprise market.
    Bicker back and forth for hours? NO WAY!!!!
    06-24-2007 11:41 AM
  2. marcol's Avatar
    Yes Way!!!!


    EDIT: Sorry!
    06-24-2007 11:44 AM
  3. HowardH's Avatar
    Just thought I should go on record and say that I'm not "marcol".

    Glad to know I'm not the ONLY one that picked up on the "iPhone <> Enterprise" space.

    That's not me ramping my own opinion.
    06-24-2007 12:05 PM
  4. Certs's Avatar
    Apple has repeatedly (and repeatedly) said the they are "reinventing the smartphone." This is clearly a device in Apple's vision that will cater to a NEW market, taking people away from many different types of phones. They hope some of those people are Treo users, some have Razr's, etc. We can try and label it all day, but it's a different device. I think it is a great idea, because if they target only one market they can lose. Target the "dumb phone" user and you will have price issues for some. Target the business user and you will have performance issues for some. This way they get some of both. Great idea IMO, and I could give 2 shytes about Apple personally
    06-24-2007 12:07 PM
  5. surur's Avatar
    Target the "dumb phone" user and you will have price issues for some. Target the business user and you will have performance issues for some. This way they get some of both.
    IPhone - the Smartphone for Dumb people?

    Surur
    06-24-2007 12:10 PM
  6. HowardH's Avatar
    IPhone - the Smartphone for Dumb people?

    Surur
    I know you meant that in an almost offensive and antagonistic fashion, but it's really not that far from the truth.

    As I iterated in another post, most of us here ARE experts, whether we like it or not. Or at the very least we'd be ADVANCED users. We're not the mainstream.

    WM is still in many respects an ADVANCED device in terms of the knowledge required to operate it. But a feature rich device does not have to be difficult to use. Look at the iPod vs other music players. The gap has closed, but for years know the methodology for getting music onto my iPod has been "insert CD, dock iPod". That was it. Yet there is a flurry of devices out there that have much more complex systems for operation.

    WM has jumped ahead leaps and bounds. But just like we can compare the simplicity of the former Palm OS devices vs with complex WM based PDAs and see the learning curve differential quite easily, I think it'll be the same with the iPhone. A smart but limited device that is easy to use. Will it do everything the Treo does? No chance. But how many of the Treo's bread and butter users DO use the advanced features? Very few, however the perception is skewed on a forum like this.

    For those who work with Enterprise deployments of smartphones, it's quite clear that to the average user the Treo is being under-utilized in many areas. And the average user would not want to have to export contacts to an Excel spreadsheet etc. to be able to make LD calls. The average user would just want a device that works. And is pretty.


    And the common argument against this sort of thing (iPod like simplicity) is that it's for "dumb people", which is just a reflection on the source of the statement not understanding anything about user experience. Smart people can operate dumb devices.

    Why do so many North Americans buy cars with silly amounts of horsepower and then throw in an automatic transmission?? People want to pick and choose which battles they fight. Whether it's an manual transmission and clutch or having to manually encode, drag and drop.
    06-24-2007 12:24 PM
  7. mikec#IM's Avatar
    What would've made the iPhone more palatable (ignoring marketing hype for the moment)?

    My prioritized list:

    - Open Carrier
    - 3G
    - 3rd party apps/dev platform (true client app)
    - Replaceable battery

    To me, those are the biggies. I am sure I am missing a few things.

    Maybe this will change in version 2, 3, 4, 5.
    06-24-2007 12:26 PM
  8. surur's Avatar
    Even just adding 3rd party apps would have made it a platform, instead of just a device.

    Surur
    06-24-2007 12:29 PM
  9. HowardH's Avatar
    Welcome to this month Surur. iPhone will allow some 3rd party apps.
    06-24-2007 12:32 PM
  10. HowardH's Avatar
    What would've made the iPhone more palatable (ignoring marketing hype for the moment)?

    My prioritized list:

    - Open Carrier
    - 3G
    - 3rd party apps/dev platform (true client app)
    - Replaceable battery

    To me, those are the biggies. I am sure I am missing a few things.

    Maybe this will change in version 2, 3, 4, 5.
    Open Carrier is a temporary thing.
    3G - absolutely. Again, not Enterprise so not QUiTE so important, but this is June 07. They should have it.
    3rd party - there is some 3rd party support. Again, would have been more important in the Enterprise space.
    Replaceable battery. I don't use a second battery for my Treo (or IPod obviously). I tend to rarely be away from power, and when I AM near power I charge the Treo. A replaceable battery adds size to the device so there's always a trade off. I'd take space reduction, to be honest.
    06-24-2007 12:35 PM
  11. surur's Avatar
    Welcome to this month Surur. iPhone will allow some 3rd party apps.
    You are not talking about the laughable web pages again, are you?

    I was talking about apps like roadsync, which adds Exchange Activesync to a wide variety of device.

    Surur
    06-24-2007 12:41 PM
  12. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Open carrier temporary? I thought AT&T had a 5 year lock. In 5 years, we will have smartphones that are far more advanced/functional.

    I swap batteries all the time...it allows me to keep working...It I had to stop and charge the device, I am tethered to a desk, or unable to use it.

    If I can recharge the battery separately from the device, it is a big win. Swappable makes things truly mobile.
    06-24-2007 12:46 PM
  13. marcol's Avatar
    Just thought I should go on record and say that I'm not "marcol".
    This is true
    06-24-2007 01:04 PM
  14. marcol's Avatar
    OTOH, we do seem to agree on quite a lot.

    3G - absolutely. Again, not Enterprise so not QUiTE so important, but this is June 07. They should have it.
    3rd party - there is some 3rd party support. Again, would have been more important in the Enterprise space.
    Replaceable battery. I don't use a second battery for my Treo (or IPod obviously). I tend to rarely be away from power, and when I AM near power I charge the Treo. A replaceable battery adds size to the device so there's always a trade off. I'd take space reduction, to be honest.
    Not sure about the battery thing. It would depend on the nature of the trade-off. How much bigger would the device have to be or how much lower capacity would the battery have to be if it were replaceable? As I've said before (prior to the updated battery specs!) the main thing (for me) is battery life from a single charge. That now looks like it should be decent.
    06-24-2007 01:17 PM
  15. bruckwine's Avatar
    3rd party scheme is wack (yes the idea is like 1980s)... this ajax 2.0 thing is too limited in my opinion. Say you leave the country or for whatever reason have no internet access (or even a network is down) if an app you need to use asap is web dependent you are screwed...not to mention how data charges are roaming. Apps in the system aren't handicapped like that. I can see gen 1 iPhoners getting screwed as Jobs waits to see what come sout and then yes..puts a few in, lock his system againa dn the joyride continues..

    That experience is def for your average joe/jane who doesn't even use apps on their PC other than solitaire, paint and office. Such a phone would mainy be for fun (and limited at that..wonder how many games it will have??) and talk. Of course I guess they can always just listen to their 2000 iTune songs until they get back into wifi land!

    I guess for $500- $600 I just expect more functionality..i can get a laptop for that cost now (or mac mini).
    06-24-2007 01:33 PM
  16. Kupe#WP's Avatar
    Just thought I should go on record and say that I'm not "marcol".
    We already knew that - no way you could hide a crazy British accent when you're typing!! :cheers:
    06-24-2007 02:53 PM
  17. oalvarez's Avatar
    But how many of the Treo's bread and butter users DO use the advanced features? Very few, however the perception is skewed on a forum like this.

    For those who work with Enterprise deployments of smartphones, it's quite clear that to the average user the Treo is being under-utilized in many areas. And the average user would not want to have to export contacts to an Excel spreadsheet etc. to be able to make LD calls. The average user would just want a device that works. And is pretty.
    thanks for this....
    06-24-2007 03:36 PM
  18. oalvarez's Avatar
    But how many of the Treo's bread and butter users DO use the advanced features? Very few, however the perception is skewed on a forum like this.

    For those who work with Enterprise deployments of smartphones, it's quite clear that to the average user the Treo is being under-utilized in many areas. And the average user would not want to have to export contacts to an Excel spreadsheet etc. to be able to make LD calls. The average user would just want a device that works. And is pretty.
    thanks for this....some here tend to forget how the typical consumer thinks.
    06-24-2007 03:41 PM
  19. mikec#IM's Avatar
    You mean "advanced" features like instant messaging?
    06-24-2007 03:45 PM
  20. surur's Avatar
    You mean "advanced" features like instant messaging?
    Not to mention MMS. Thats magic for people without a MSc.

    Surur
    06-24-2007 03:53 PM
  21. marcol's Avatar
    We already knew that - no way you could hide a crazy British accent when you're typing!! :cheers:
    Knew I shouldn't have used the term 'chaps' this morning. The discussion of the meaning of the word 'ho' in US English and British English was probably a mistake too
    06-24-2007 03:55 PM
  22. marcol's Avatar
    But how many of the Treo's bread and butter users DO use the advanced features?
    Not to mention MMS. Thats magic for people without a MSc.
    I couldn't use MMS on my Treo 650 without manually switching network connection. Of course, if I did that there was no internet access without switching back. Features are good and all that, but better if they work.

    Just saying.
    06-24-2007 04:06 PM
  23. treobk214's Avatar
    For all the apple haters, show me something microsoft has done which trumps the iphone.
    06-24-2007 04:07 PM
  24. surur's Avatar
    For all the apple haters, show me something microsoft has done which trumps the iphone.
    Sorry, but WM6 trumps the IPhone already.

    Surur
    06-24-2007 04:09 PM
  25. marcol's Avatar
    For all the apple haters, show me something microsoft has done which trumps the iphone.

    06-24-2007 04:11 PM
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