1. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Archie,

    What are the five things that make this false?
    06-24-2007 10:14 AM
  2. braj's Avatar
    Archie,

    What are the five things that make this false?
    Give him a day and he can make them up. He's a bit slow, ya know.
    06-24-2007 02:09 PM
  3. Kupe#WP's Avatar
    Give him a day and he can make them up. He's a bit slow, ya know.
    C'mon - he's never used/seen a QWERTY keyboard before - it'll take some time.
    06-24-2007 02:49 PM
  4. MacUser's Avatar
    Archie - here's some new information from people who have already seen, touched, and used an iPhone - check out this article where they post:
    Tactile feedback is simple a must for anything but the most casual finger-pointing form of typing. Sounds like the iPhone keyboard may not be the miracle machine you've been describing here, does it?
    Why do all the haters take this accounting as gospel? Isn't Endagadget notorious for Apple bashing? You should always consider the source.

    I guess some of us will know by Friday.
    06-24-2007 07:13 PM
  5. bruckwine's Avatar
    Why do all the haters take this accounting as gospel? Isn't Endagadget notorious for Apple bashing? You should always consider the source.

    I guess some of us will know by Friday.
    Not sure myself..actually i find engadget and gizmodo promote apple..at least users there seem to think so to the point they've created a no iPhone version

    I DID post it originally but simply as it gives more details..whetherr they are true, correct or off the chart will be for users to confirm come Friday evening onwards.

    I have been knocking SOME of the iPhone's features, but not because it'll be crap but because, objectively it has several limitations that in my mind make the claims Jobs & co have been making misleading and downright deceptive at times. I hope whoever gets it enjoys it as they'll certainly be paying plenty for it!

    More so I hope they and the other more experienced phone cos take ALL the criticism I'm sure they've been reading online (they're techies too) into consideration for future models of their products.
    06-24-2007 07:19 PM
  6. oalvarez's Avatar
    why is price such a point of contention for some? i mean hec, how much is Treo?

    i suppose you pay for what you get.
    06-24-2007 07:21 PM
  7. bruckwine's Avatar
    why is price such a point of contention for some? i mean hec, how much is Treo?

    i suppose you pay for what you get.
    Well personally I took a looong time before I bought my treo..simply because I went and researched EXACTLY what it could do and its limitations. Given that it did more f what I wanted than say the w900 music phone which iwas also looking at, and a BB 8300 (?) which was out too it won because

    1. it was cheaper
    2. it had dmore 3rd party apps
    3. had larger support community
    4. had nice form factor (imo)

    Money is def. not an issue for some ppl , but for others like me it is. As a matter of fact i was originally going to upgrade my iPod to a video one (80 GB) and then thought...how much movies do I really want to watch on a 2.5" screen?! A smartphone was just the smarter option (and get rid of my nokia).
    06-24-2007 07:28 PM
  8. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Macuser,

    Engadget is not a Apple bashing site...far from it. You should actually read the site sometime.

    Why is it when any criticism of the iPhone is made, it's derided as Apple bashing?

    It's like the fanboys play the race card everytime.
    06-24-2007 07:47 PM
  9. bruckwine's Avatar
    Macuser,

    Engadget is not a Apple bashing site...far from it. You should actually read the site sometime.

    Why is it when any criticism of the iPhone is made, it's derided as Apple bashing?

    It's like the fanboys play the race card everytime.
    Well it's not abnormal..I find ppl who use solely Macs feel they are regularly picked on. Whether that's true I don't know (I doubt)..as I use both i regularly see the plus and minus on both sides.

    I remember when the treo 680 came out: some ppl (like me) loved it...but many others critiqued and/or bashed it (you'd think i bought Ford Model T) - but they did point out some useful limitations/observations in between the arguments! And voila..latest Palm has wifi 9criticism noted)...
    06-24-2007 08:06 PM
  10. mikec#IM's Avatar
    bruckwine,

    Mac people aren't "attacked" anymore than Windows users are "attacked" anout security and virus concerns.

    I've seen a little to much kneejerk from the Apple camp (and I own and like many Apple products).

    Every product has it's plus and minuses. But denying the faults is just ostrich behavior.
    06-24-2007 08:38 PM
  11. Kupe#WP's Avatar
    why is price such a point of contention for some? i mean hec, how much is Treo?

    i suppose you pay for what you get.
    I can get a full-price Treo, with no contract, for $600. Why does Cingular think they can ding me for $175 dollars if I cancel my "full price" iPhone contract in under 2 years?

    Well it's not abnormal..I find ppl who use solely Macs feel they are regularly picked on.
    Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't using an inferior product.
    06-24-2007 08:41 PM
  12. bruckwine's Avatar
    bruckwine,

    Mac people aren't "attacked" anymore than Windows users are "attacked" anout security and virus concerns.

    I've seen a little to much kneejerk from the Apple camp (and I own and like many Apple products).

    Every product has it's plus and minuses. But denying the faults is just ostrich behavior.
    Like I said I dunno..but THEY certainly FEEL they are lol! It may be because Apple is the small guy on the block and MSFT is the big bad guy (and they are aren't they) but they do play the defensive card in general (not specifically pointing any fingers). as a guy who rides the fence it matter not to me. I use products from anyone once they're good - i don't "stick" to a company just because.

    What makes ME so critical of the iPhone is, apart from its obvious limitations as a smartphone, is the "fanboys" christening this the "jesus phone" - gimme a break! There's a good reason ppl don't overly critic phones from companies like Sony to death - it's because they don't push it in your face as the saviour of you soul to death either!

    For EVERY reaction there is an equal and opposite one, and a lot of ppl are sick and tired of the iPhone behemoth now. can't wait until June 30th!
    06-24-2007 08:44 PM
  13. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Because they can...AT&T wants to charge you their minimum profit margin and customer acquisition cost.

    Month to month is the way to go...eff contracts and customer lock...compete on service, fools.
    06-24-2007 08:48 PM
  14. Kupe#WP's Avatar
    Month to month is the way to go...eff contracts and customer lock...compete on service, fools.
    Exactly.
    06-24-2007 08:55 PM
  15. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Bruckwine,

    It is the Jesus Phone...as in "JFC, this EDGE is slow!"
    06-24-2007 09:11 PM
  16. dutchtrumpet's Avatar
    What a silly thread. I'm excited to get my iPhone I think it will be cool. Will it be a source of inner peace for me? No.

    Somehow I must look for happiness and peace somewhere beyond my phone cool though it may be.
    06-24-2007 09:15 PM
  17. bruckwine's Avatar
    What a silly thread. I'm excited to get my iPhone I think it will be cool. Will it be a source of inner peace for me? No.

    Somehow I must look for happiness and peace somewhere beyond my phone cool though it may be.
    you are one of the saners ones dutchtrumpet...i've seen posts of ppl having org@sims over getting one!
    06-24-2007 09:38 PM
  18. dutchtrumpet's Avatar
    you are one of the saners ones dutchtrumpet...i've seen posts of ppl having org@sims over getting one!
    Don't get me wrong, I'm excited (very) I expect the tough screen typing to be annoying, but hopefully only at first.

    I have unanswered questions like document handling. Will I have to email a pdf to myself to be able to read it out will there be some kind of document sync.

    Also, I haven't see any sort of memo app. I don't know if the to do list is built into the calendar like it is on a mac desktop. Also, the calendar was skipped completely in the video tour.

    Those are the things that I can think of that may dampen the experience. I hope not. We'll see. Not much point speculating when I'll have two on Friday to play with
    06-24-2007 09:53 PM
  19. archie's Avatar
    Give him a day and he can make them up. He's a bit slow, ya know.
    Sorry for not patrolling this forum with the fierce dedication that nay-sayers and haters have.

    Anyway, I have cut and paste those points from Engadget below with my response included.

    • The keyboard was simply described as "disappointing". Keyboarding with two thumbs often registers multiple key presses (two or three at a time) resulting in a lot of mistakes. The best way to type is with a single finger (as shown in most of Apple's demos), but two thumbs is supposedly very difficult. After trying it for a number of days our source gave up using their thumbs.
    • The text auto-correction only works well for simple words, but doesn't work for proper names. We can only assume this bit will get better with time as Apple fills out its predictive text dictionary.

    Ridiculous. First off, other phones don't have auto-correction for proper names so you can stop right there. Regardless, I am told the iPhone actually does have auto-correction for proper names which it has access to in the address book.

    • "It won't replace a BlackBerry. It's not good for text input. It's just not a business product."

    It IS a good business product. It has a highly capable phone with never-before seen features. For example, with the iPhone, unlike ANY other phone, when the ear is farther from the speaker, the degraded bass response that occurs due to sound leaking and distance, is improved upon by equalization which adjusts the bass relative to the rest of the output signal in response to the distance as measured by the proximity sensor.
    It is good for text input. You can fly through typing after getting used to the phone apparently, because you only need to tap/touch the keys, not press/depress/punch like other phones.


    • The touchscreen was said to, in general, require somewhat hard presses to register input, and needs some getting used to.

    This is odd especially since the phone registers the input as you let up off the screen. Even so, its a glass screen... this complaint makes no since.

    • In addition to its dock, the iPhone comes packaged with a polishing cloth (the thing's supposedly a fingerprint magnet, no surprise) and the usual smallish power adapter.

    I don't believe it will come with a dock. I may be mistaken but this does not seem likely. Why didn't they list the other accessories that actually come with it? Did they just want to project some idea like "even Apple is admitting the screen choice is a bad idea by including a polishing cloth" or some such non-sense.

    • The Bluetooth headset will debut in the $120 range, and will come with its own dock for charging both the phone and the headset. The headset will feature a miniature magnetic charging interface la MagSafe.

    • The Bluetooth headset has a hidden LED and is supposedly a very small and elegant device. Sound quality is said to be "typical". There is no clip; like many headsets you're expected to just let it hang out of your ear, as previously shown.
    • The browser "worked well" but page load speeds on EDGE were just as slow as expected. It sounds like 3G users will have a tough run with this.

    What was expected? 3G? T1? Browsing speeds are faster than the Treo 680 or the Motorola, which is good considering they all have access to the same data speed.

    • Users must scroll through the address book (or use the alphabet-drag on the side) -- one cannot bring up the keyboard and type in a name, as many of us are used to.
    • Shocker: YouTube over EDGE didn't work well at all, and will basically necessitate use of WiFi.
    06-24-2007 10:06 PM
  20. Kupe#WP's Avatar
    Sorry for not patrolling this forum with the fierce dedication that nay-sayers and haters have.
    What a sad, poorly formed, non-informational post that was. Your (having never seen an iPhone) opinions versus the opinions of an official tester are truly found wanting. If you weren't so clueless, you might be mortified. :thumbsdn:
    06-24-2007 10:12 PM
  21. bruckwine's Avatar

    It IS a good business product. It has a highly capable phone with never-before seen features. For example, with the iPhone, unlike ANY other phone, when the ear is farther from the speaker, the degraded bass response that occurs due to sound leaking and distance, is improved upon by equalization which adjusts the bass relative to the rest of the output signal in response to the distance as measured by the proximity sensor.
    It is good for text input. You can fly through typing after getting used to the phone apparently, because you only need to tap/touch the keys, not press/depress/punch like other phones.

    how does that make it a good BUSINESS product? Maybe that can make it a good phone, but I think for it to be categorised as a business product you need more compelling examples.

    • In addition to its dock, the iPhone comes packaged with a polishing cloth (the thing's supposedly a fingerprint magnet, no surprise) and the usual smallish power adapter.

    I don't believe it will come with a dock. I may be mistaken but this does not seem likely. So this is bogus too. Why didn't they list the other accessories that actually come with it? Did they just want to project some idea like "even Apple is admitting the screen choice is a bad idea by including a polishing cloth" or some such non-sense.

    Apple iPhone in dock

    • Users must scroll through the address book (or use the alphabet-drag on the side) -- one cannot bring up the keyboard and type in a name, as many of us are used to.
    That sounds as if it's a bit of a hindrance if you have over 200 contacts esp if you use the device for business I'd think
    06-24-2007 10:58 PM
  22. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Archie,

    Your response makes little sense, and it glat wrong.

    There is a dock with the iPhone, just like the 2nd gen Shuffles.

    As for optimum listening distance and form, that was poppycock, plain and simple.

    A business device? GMAFB. It's clear it is not.

    Yes, there will be a polishing cloth too.

    As for the speed of typing, you have never used it - how can you say it will "fly"?
    06-24-2007 11:32 PM
  23. marcol's Avatar
    Even so, its a glass screen... this complaint makes no since.
    Good point. It does seem rather improbable that pushing harder on a glass screen would make a difference. It's also pretty obvious from the keynotes that neither Jobs nor Forstall were pushing the screen very hard (quite the opposite in fact).

    The 'need to push hard' thing seems just like the sort of mistake a faker that had only used a resistive screen would make, and I'm tending to the view the Engadget's 'very trusted inside source' is full of it.
    06-25-2007 05:36 AM
  24. MacUser's Avatar
    The 'need to push hard' thing seems just like the sort of mistake a faker that had only used a resistive screen would make, and I'm tending to the view the Engadget's 'very trusted inside source' is full of it.
    I tend to agree. That was the line that totally stuck out for me. Again, some of us will KNOW Friday.
    06-25-2007 07:49 AM
  25. Insertion's Avatar
    Totally OT, but MacUser you need to upgrade your avatar. (Not that there's anything wrong with a 12" PB...)
    06-25-2007 07:58 AM
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