1. oalvarez's Avatar
    ^ a kodak moment
    06-23-2007 01:35 PM
  2. braj's Avatar
    lets say that he hasn't. does that go to dismiss his post above? i think it's a well written message that offers some good intuition and information. i enjoyed reading it and it made sense to me.

    what's wrong with that?

    maybe you're saying that nothing is wrong and you were simply hoping that he had so to learn even more about the iPhone, right? :shake:
    It was mental masturbation.
    06-23-2007 02:11 PM
  3. ronbo2000's Avatar
    You should live where AT&T is your BEST choice. That hurts to even write...
    And where's that? You missed the days when AT&T was your only choice.
    pretty much how i feel....was fun to watch, i'm back to wanting to try one out.

    i just don't like Sprint.
    Each telco have their own fans and detractors.

    I would like to the iPhone out but I need to make sure to hide this from my daughter or she will ask to get one for sure.

    I wonder how much more marketing presentations like this will they roll out before June 29. Each one shows more information, like a tease. For each one, more questions comes up as well. Call me a doubter but I have been burned so much already.
    06-23-2007 03:04 PM
  4. archie's Avatar
    I guess I should have been more clear - meaning, GPS with satellite and navigation software loaded on the handheld (allowing a Sirf III reciever in the handheld and running software like TomTom). I'm not interested in the feature of my carrier to triangulate me. Although, it is reported to assist with a better coverage signal and has some emergency 911 ability. Thanks big brother for the spin.

    I would like a GPS reciever built in that allows me to turn it on or off at my liesure and work with GPS software like TomTom. That's what I meant.
    Ahh, I see. The iPhone has Google Maps. This application gives you driving directions, a trip planner, traffic visuals and co-pilot functionality, much like a GPS. This application also keeps track of your locations and allows you to enter in new starting points. Google's back-end software enables it to poll a client to get starting point (location information) information. It is unknown at this time if Apple has tied this capability of Google in with their front-end together in conjunction with AT&T's service. It would require all 3 companies to operate together in order to function fully like a GPS unit.

    Apple does not look upon GPS units as being that popular and widely relied upon. This is probably unfortunate for those that like the geeky gadget; I do not seeing Apple incorporating this into the iPhone in the near future.

    Maybe third party solutions will be available.
    06-23-2007 03:44 PM
  5. archie's Avatar
    Now you have your answer - he's never touched nor seen one.
    Well, I'm not a reporter or Apple employee if that is what you are after; so I guess my information is null then, huh?
    06-23-2007 03:46 PM
  6. Kupe#WP's Avatar
    so I guess my information is null then, huh?
    I'm forced to agree with you on this one.
    06-23-2007 03:51 PM
  7. llarson's Avatar
    I'm forced to agree with you on this one.
    You where the one asking if you could set up your tent outside last night!
    06-23-2007 03:57 PM
  8. archie's Avatar
    By your own description you have just declared the Moto Q's keypad the best keyboard ever.
    You dismissing the other 5 issues that I wrote about.

    Its keyboard is not at the bottom, thumb doesn't cover 5 keys,
    That is not true. Your thumb most certainly does cover up and obscure your view of the keys as you type.

    small "nipples" on D(5) and J key (for tactile, non-visual orientation),
    Are you telling me you can rely on these "nipples" so that you can keep typing without being slowed down and without looking at the keyboard?

    This question is of course hypothetical. There is no way this is possible.


    tactile feedback, aural feedback (if desired), visual feedback (if needed).
    Can you elaborate on this visual feedback you speak of? I am quite aware of this Moto phone and it has no visual feedback that I have seen.

    I personally feel the Moto Q is far from the best keyboard around, but using your criteria I guess it is. That you somehow think the iPhone's "keyboard" is just proof you haven't used the Q's.
    These sorts of comment that are directed at me are exactly what causes me to think of TreoCentral users as completely disconnected from the real world and truly uninformed.
    06-23-2007 03:59 PM
  9. braj's Avatar
    These sorts of comment that are directed at me are exactly what causes me to think of TreoCentral users as completely disconnected from the real world and truly uninformed.
    :shake: Oh the irony!
    06-23-2007 04:03 PM
  10. archie's Avatar
    Braj - Hahahahhahaha

    Archie,

    Nice try, but no banana.

    Tactile feedback is important...it actually requires one sense. Visual requires two senses - tough and sight.

    Most prefer tactile response.
    You are ignoring one of my main points (others as well), you still have to look at the keyboard as you type. Tactile feedback is important but in the case of small keyboards as those we find on a small handheld, this visual feedback process that i described is MORE important. To sit at a desk and type on large keys is one thing (here you can type without looking at the keyboard because it is of a different design and scale - a human being can quickly gain orientation by position and touch), to hold a miniature keyboard in the palm of your hand is something else and this something else has other rules which have not been fully discovered yet - well, that is until Apple performed the research to discover what works.


    So you are saying not only will typing be better (more accurate) and faster, but one handed operation will be better as well?
    Yup!

    But we'll have to wait and see won't we. You ask as if to clarify to understand what you will believe, but in reality there is no way you will believe me, is there?
    06-23-2007 04:11 PM
  11. archie's Avatar

    Its not his fault he swallows everything which Jobs spews out.

    Surur
    There's more than one RDF here at TreoCentral. :evil:
    06-23-2007 04:14 PM
  12. Kupe#WP's Avatar
    You dismissing the other 5 issues that I wrote about.
    Why not - they are equally false.

    That is not true. Your thumb most certainly does cover up and obscure your view of the keys as you type.
    Are you daft? Of course it covers up the key I'm punching and the keys below it - like on your desktop's keyboard - like on your iPhone. It does not, however, obscure the key next to my thumb(s) or beyond that.

    Are you telling me you can rely on these "nipples" so that you can keep typing without being slowed down and without looking at the keyboard?
    Of course. It's how I dial, one-handed, without looking at the phone. Clearly you've never used something like this. Doesn't your desktop keyboard have a raised bit on your J and F keys? All 7 of the keyboards I just checked here in my house do - Even the crappy keyboard on my UX-380N and the Think Outside BT keyboard I use with it. Are you saying you can't figure out how to place your fingers on the home row of a keyboard without looking or are you saying you don't know how to type?

    Can you elaborate on this visual feedback you speak of? I am quite aware of this Moto phone and it has no visual feedback that I have seen.
    Umm - sure - it's really very complex: I look at the screen and observe the letters I'm typing on the keyboard are neatly flowing into the application I'm typing into. Is there some sort of better visual feedback than direct visual feedback? :shake: I'd like to modify my earlier comment - you've actually never used an electronic device before, have you? Is your mom reading and replying to these threads for you?

    These sorts of comment that are directed at me are exactly what causes me to think of TreoCentral users as completely disconnected from the real world and truly uninformed.
    Again, with a single statement, you impeach all other points you attempt to make. How does it feel to be on the baby seal end of the club?
    06-23-2007 04:21 PM
  13. Kupe#WP's Avatar
    Archie - here's some new information from people who have already seen, touched, and used an iPhone - check out this article where they post:
    - The keyboard was simply described as "disappointing". Keyboarding with two thumbs often registers multiple key presses (two or three at a time) resulting in a lot of mistakes. The best way to type is with a single finger (as shown in most of Apple's demos), but two thumbs is supposedly very difficult. After trying it for a number of days our source gave up using their thumbs.
    - The text auto-correction only works well for simple words, but doesn't work for proper names. We can only assume this bit will get better with time as Apple fills out its predictive text dictionary.
    - "It won't replace a BlackBerry. It's not good for text input. It's just not a business product."
    - The touchscreen was said to, in general, require somewhat hard presses to register input, and needs some getting used to.
    Tactile feedback is simple a must for anything but the most casual finger-pointing form of typing. Sounds like the iPhone keyboard may not be the miracle machine you've been describing here, does it?
    06-23-2007 04:46 PM
  14. Malatesta's Avatar
    ouch, just read that...it's only one opinion but it suggests what many of us have felt would be limitations.

    This surprised me:
    Users must scroll through the address book (or use the alphabet-drag on the side) -- one cannot bring up the keyboard and type in a name, as many of us are used to.
    It seems to contradict this statement from Archie, unless he meant just email, which I think he did:

    Here is a fact for you: you CAN "simply type a few characters of the name in the address box" on the iPhone. I am not sure why you say that a person cannot do this.
    06-23-2007 04:59 PM
  15. braj's Avatar
    Archie - here's some new information from people who have already seen, touched, and used an iPhone - check out this article where they post:
    Tactile feedback is simple a must for anything but the most casual finger-pointing form of typing. Sounds like the iPhone keyboard may not be the miracle machine you've been describing here, does it?
    Yep, and I'll take that first-hand account a lot more seriously than a rabid fanboy's speculations about it. If you rely on a lot of data entry and need to use it one0handed the iPhone probably isn't for you - yet. What all smartphones need is speech to text. I know these have a learning curve (the software as well as the user) and what would be best is some sort of long-tyerm user database that you can use across different platforms so you can use the same speech-recognition DB an Mac, Windows, on the phone, everywhere.
    06-23-2007 05:42 PM
  16. Malatesta's Avatar
    What all smartphones need is speech to text.
    Looks like MS thinks the same way...

    "Microsoft is internally dogfooding a beta version of voice-enabled Windows Live Search that allows users to speak into the mobile device using the inbuilt microphone and search categories, maps, driving directions, traffic or movies from the search application." (source)

    Too bad the DL links don't work :o Seems like a great idea though...especially when, you know...driving, lol.
    06-23-2007 05:47 PM
  17. surur's Avatar
    This surprised me:
    It seems to contradict this statement from Archie, unless he meant just email, which I think he did:
    Why are you surprised that something Archie says is not accurate. I would actually be surprised by the opposite.

    Surur
    06-23-2007 05:48 PM
  18. Malatesta's Avatar
    Why are you surprised that something Archie says is not accurate. I would actually be surprised by the opposite.

    Surur
    lol, I was surprised that Apple didn't implement the feature, not so much that Archie was wrong in assuming they of course, would
    06-23-2007 05:49 PM
  19. MacUser's Avatar
    Wow, I just saw that presentation demo and iPhone really looks great. Its a real upgrade for my iPod.

    I just don't like AT&T.
    It was a sweet video. I'm wondering how long till the full screen video iPod is out? Nov and Christmas?
    06-23-2007 10:07 PM
  20. bruckwine's Avatar
    You are ignoring one of my main points (others as well), you still have to look at the keyboard as you type. Tactile feedback is important but in the case of small keyboards as those we find on a small handheld, this visual feedback process that i described is MORE important. To sit at a desk and type on large keys is one thing (here you can type without looking at the keyboard because it is of a different design and scale - a human being can quickly gain orientation by position and touch), to hold a miniature keyboard in the palm of your hand is something else and this something else has other rules which have not been fully discovered yet - well, that is until Apple performed the research to discover what works.



    Have you EVER used a mobile QWERTY keyboard ?! When I use my treo 680 I rarely look..if I do I look for the first key and after that it's as easy as desktop typing..hence my ability to text and do other things with both my free hand and my eyes...
    06-23-2007 11:41 PM
  21. Kupe#WP's Avatar
    Have you EVER used a mobile QWERTY keyboard ?!
    My money's on no - Archie's never used a mobile QWERTY keyboard. He probably doesn't even know how to spell q w e r t y.
    06-23-2007 11:48 PM
  22. archie's Avatar
    Archie - here's some new information from people who have already seen, touched, and used an iPhone - check out this article where they post:
    - The keyboard was simply described as "disappointing". Keyboarding with two thumbs often registers multiple key presses (two or three at a time) resulting in a lot of mistakes. The best way to type is with a single finger (as shown in most of Apple's demos), but two thumbs is supposedly very difficult. After trying it for a number of days our source gave up using their thumbs.
    - The text auto-correction only works well for simple words, but doesn't work for proper names. We can only assume this bit will get better with time as Apple fills out its predictive text dictionary.
    - "It won't replace a BlackBerry. It's not good for text input. It's just not a business product."
    - The touchscreen was said to, in general, require somewhat hard presses to register input, and needs some getting used to.
    Tactile feedback is simple a must for anything but the most casual finger-pointing form of typing. Sounds like the iPhone keyboard may not be the miracle machine you've been describing here, does it?
    I can assure you this is a bogus report. these things are all false and I can point out 5 things in this list that are tell-tale signs this person has never used the phone.
    06-24-2007 12:10 AM
  23. tirk's Avatar
    ...quotes a list of 4 things
    I can assure you this is a bogus report. these things are all false and I can point out 5 things in this list that are tell-tale signs this person has never used the phone.
    06-24-2007 05:35 AM
  24. marcol's Avatar
    I can assure you this is a bogus report. these things are all false and I can point out 5 things in this list that are tell-tale signs this person has never used the phone.
    What are they?
    06-24-2007 05:37 AM
  25. Kupe#WP's Avatar
    I can assure you this is a bogus report. these things are all false and I can point out 5 things in this list that are tell-tale signs this person has never used the phone.
    Why is it I don't feel assured?
    06-24-2007 05:39 AM
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