Online retailer promises unlocked iPhones

[Malatesta]

it sounds like the counter arguement is that it won't work fast enough for what the iPhone is said to offer. out of curiousity, has it been tested or reported on by some outside source at this point? it simply doesn't make sense that they would produce a device that touts an internet experience but which doesn't deliver.

Well, it does...just via Wifi.

That's what Job's used during the presentation and that's what they show the device using in videos. So they are not lying just qualifying the experience. (Remember it took 20 secs for the NY Times website via wifi in January...maybe that's improved a bit, but it gives you a ballpark estimate over wifi)

Fact is, 80kbps is still 80kbps no matter which way you cut it. When you add lots of graphics and full websites to download, it's not too hard to predict what to expect.

Maybe they're using the Apple servers as a proxy (one more argument against unlocked devices) and it'll help, but even Sidekicks are poky for surfing the net.

The only out-side reports are from Engadget which gave it a thumbs down. The other was the wine-expert who ran into a tester using it, he said it was faster than he expected/not that bad.

 

[oalvarez]

so it would seem like having the Wi-Fi capability is a feature, just like the one that many ask for in their Treos and other devices that don't come with it built in. my opinion is that EDGE works satisfactorily for my needs and i also think it does suffice for many others. come this fri/sat i'll be able to see how different the Pearl internet browsing experience is to that of the iPhone.

regards

 

[Scott R]

The phone is not being subsidized by AT&T, but any new plan will require a 2-year contract. Instead of subsidizing the phone, Apple has worked with AT&T to pass along the savings (that they would normally do via a subsidy) by way of a better rate plan. So this rumored $35-45 plan will not just be the price for unlimited data, it will be the entire plan cost (voice minutes plus unlimited data). That's my prediction and I'm sticking to it.

Think about it...
- The phone costs between $500 and $600 (fact).
- Most agree that signing up with AT&T will require a 2-year commitment, based on the fact that: a) A 2-year commitment was mentioned in early ads, and b) All current plans on the AT&T website require a 2-year commitment (so I'll call this one somewhere between a fact and a very strong possibility).
- AT&T has hired 2000 new people just to handle this product release (fact).

Do you really believe that there are *that* many people who commit to a 2-year contract with an expensive monthly rate for an already expensive phone? Do you believe that Jobs and AT&T are completely out of touch with this reality? So the only possibility that remains is that there is yet another surprise awaiting people which will help to push people to buy an expensive phone and commit to a 2-year contract. That surprise is a very attractive phone/data plan price.

 

[bruckwine]

The phone is not being subsidized by AT&T, but any new plan will require a 2-year contract. Instead of subsidizing the phone, Apple has worked with AT&T to pass along the savings (that they would normally do via a subsidy) by way of a better rate plan. So this rumored $35-45 plan will not just be the price for unlimited data, it will be the entire plan cost (voice minutes plus unlimited data). That's my prediction and I'm sticking to it.

Think about it...
- The phone costs between $500 and $600 (fact).
- Most agree that signing up with AT&T will require a 2-year commitment, based on the fact that: a) A 2-year commitment was mentioned in early ads, and b) All current plans on the AT&T website require a 2-year commitment (so I'll call this one somewhere between a fact and a very strong possibility).
- AT&T has hired 2000 new people just to handle this product release (fact).

Do you really believe that there are *that* many people who commit to a 2-year contract with an expensive monthly rate for an already expensive phone? Do you believe that Jobs and AT&T are completely out of touch with this reality? So the only possibility that remains is that there is yet another surprise awaiting people which will help to push people to buy an expensive phone and commit to a 2-year contract. That surprise is a very attractive phone/data plan price.

Wow...voice, data AND unlimited text for $40?! They might as well give them away free (*hoping*)

 

[surur]

Do you really believe that there are *that* many people who commit to a 2-year contract with an expensive monthly rate for an already expensive phone? Do you believe that Jobs and AT&T are completely out of touch with this reality?

Be that as it may but:

The phone is not being subsidized by AT&T, but any new plan will require a 2-year contract. Instead of subsidizing the phone, Apple has worked with AT&T to pass along the savings (that they would normally do via a subsidy) by way of a better rate plan.

Think about it...
- The phone costs between $500 and $600 (fact).
- Most agree that signing up with AT&T will require a 2-year commitment, based on the fact that: a) A 2-year commitment was mentioned in early ads, and b) All current plans on the AT&T website require a 2-year commitment (so I'll call this one somewhere between a fact and a very strong possibility).
- AT&T has hired 2000 new people just to handle this product release (fact).

This argument rests upon AT&T saving money by not subsidizing the IPhone. In fact, they are making much less money than usual on the IPhone, with Apple even taking a share of the monthly revenue of the IPhone, and the phone itself leading to huge start up costs (2000 new employees, tweaking edge, stanchions etc).

That $200 that AT&T will have saved in not subsidizing the IPhone will probably go nicely into Apple's pocket over a two year period. AT&T has no incentive to decrease their revenue further.

Surur

 

[oalvarez]

curious to know how much they'll pay these 2000 employees and how long they'll be employed for

 

[Scott R]

Wow...voice, data AND unlimited text for $40?! They might as well give them away free (*hoping*)

I pay less than $40/month with my Sprint SERO plan. That gives me unlimited EVDO and unlimited mobile-to-mobile. So it really shouldn't be considered so shocking that AT&T could sell a similar plan.

 

[Scott R]

This argument rests upon AT&T saving money by not subsidizing the IPhone. In fact, they are making much less money than usual on the IPhone, with Apple even taking a share of the monthly revenue of the IPhone, and the phone itself leading to huge start up costs (2000 new employees, tweaking edge, stanchions etc).

That $200 that AT&T will have saved in not subsidizing the IPhone will probably go nicely into Apple's pocket over a two year period. AT&T has no incentive to decrease their revenue further.

Are there any definitive facts you can link to regarding Apple taking a share of AT&T's revenue? I've heard that mentioned before, but haven't see any solid evidence/quotes on that yet. If true, I would tend to agree that it wouldn't be in AT&T's interest to offer a better plan to iPhone users.

But I'm not sure where you're coming from when you suggest that AT&T is in essence "losing money" as compared to their other phones. I'm sure you would agree that they will still be making money on iPhone users via the monthly plan. If they're "making less" money from iPhone users as compared to buyers of other phones they sell, one needs only counter with: Yes, but the iPhone has the sex appeal and marketing muscle to bring in a lot of new customers. All of the phone companies want subscribers. They want them locked in and they want them to remain customers (low churn).

 

[MacUser]

But I'm not sure where you're coming from when you suggest that AT&T is in essence "losing money" as compared to their other phones. I'm sure you would agree that they will still be making money on iPhone users via the monthly plan. If they're "making less" money from iPhone users as compared to buyers of other phones they sell, one needs only counter with: Yes, but the iPhone has the sex appeal and marketing muscle to bring in a lot of new customers. All of the phone companies want subscribers. They want them locked in and they want them to remain customers (low churn).

Makes sense to me.

I already have an expired contract. So, I'll either just buy the phone and pop in the card saving my rollover minutes, or get an Apple low cost <hopefully> data/voice plan.

 

[braj]

"Apple" and "low cost" have never gone together, I doubt we'll be seeing that with the iPhone. Part of the allure of Apple products is that they are exclusive. Some people will happily pay $75+ a month to be seen with an iPhone, in the same way they spend the money on a Benz or a Fendi purse. Upscale consumers don't see value in the same way as the general public. And some 'uppity' poor folks want to have that 'bling' too, and would starve themselves to afford it.

 

[MacUser]

Status Symbol

Some people will happily pay $75+ a month to be seen with an iPhone, in the same way they spend the money on a Benz or a Fendi purse. Upscale consumers don't see value in the same way as the general public. And some 'uppity' poor folks want to have that 'bling' too, and would starve themselves to afford it.

I'm not happy paying $100 a month for my Treo with a data plan and a family talk voice plan. But, for me, I need a phone/organizer for my work and meetings. I schedule my own appointments and meetings, not my secretary, so I'm not big on the Outlook.

Still, I totally know what you're saying about poorer people spending more than they can afford for the status symbol. It's sad, but somewhat understandable. There's a really good book by Ruby Payne: Framework for Understanding Poverty that gets into the culture and values of those living in poverty.

 

[Certs]

so it would seem like having the Wi-Fi capability is a feature, just like the one that many ask for in their Treos and other devices that don't come with it built in. my opinion is that EDGE works satisfactorily for my needs and i also think it does suffice for many others. come this fri/sat i'll be able to see how different the Pearl internet browsing experience is to that of the iPhone.

regards

I use edge mostly myself, for battery sake, but I have to disagree with you here. You really think surfing the web will be satisfactory over EDGE viewing full hmtl web pages? I mean, I HOPE it is, but I highly doubt it...

 

[oalvarez]

i'm only giving you my opinion of my own usage. does my Pearl download TreoCentral as fast as my desktop? no, it doesn't. does it bother me that it doesn't? no, it doesn't. would i pay more for faster service if it were available with my service provider, yes, sure, why not, i can afford to. but truthfully it's not a requirement for me. i can live without those desktop speeds and i'm pretty sure others out there can and do themselves. how long have i been using my Pearl for? even when i had a 3G device it wasn't always receiving that signal. i will repeat, 3G is fast, it is a nice feature to have, but for myself and some others i don't think it's a necessity.

remember, the iPhone does offer integrated wi-fi capability. it's not as though it only offers EDGE.

 

[surur]

Are there any definitive facts you can link to regarding Apple taking a share of AT&T's revenue? I've heard that mentioned before, but haven't see any solid evidence/quotes on that yet. If true, I would tend to agree that it wouldn't be in AT&T's interest to offer a better plan to iPhone users.

But I'm not sure where you're coming from when you suggest that AT&T is in essence "losing money" as compared to their other phones. I'm sure you would agree that they will still be making money on iPhone users via the monthly plan. If they're "making less" money from iPhone users as compared to buyers of other phones they sell, one needs only counter with: Yes, but the iPhone has the sex appeal and marketing muscle to bring in a lot of new customers. All of the phone companies want subscribers. They want them locked in and they want them to remain customers (low churn).

As I said, less in comparison to another phone, as you said they make it up on new subscribers, but still there is no incentive to subsidize them further when Apple already takes a cut.

Surur

 

[surur]

Well, the details of the price plans are out.

Apple has released details of the service plans that will be available for the iPhone. Three special monthly plans are available:

- $59.99 for 450 voice minutes
- $79.99 for 900 voice minutes
- $99.99 for 1,350 voice minutes

All three plans include unlimited data (email & web), Visual Voicemail, 200 SMS text messages, roll over minutes and unlimited mobile to mobile calling. Plans have a $36 one-time activation fee and are two year contracts. Family plans will also be available, but were not disclosed at this time. In addition, any standard AT&T service plan may be chosen.

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/error.html#mn_p

In some ways I think ScottR was right, as $60 is a lot closer to $45 than $80, but on the other hand 450 minutes is a bit low, I think forcing most people to go for the $80 plan. The 200 texts are a bit low too.

Surur

 

[dstrauss#IM]

...Do you really believe that there are *that* many people who commit to a 2-year contract with an expensive monthly rate for an already expensive phone? Do you believe that Jobs and AT&T are completely out of touch with this reality? ....

Yes.

Yes.

Apple and AT&T see themselves as Lexus and Cadillac, not Toyota and Chevy. My bet is a $39.99 unlimited data plan ON TOP OF whatever minutes you can stand to pay for above that.:thumbsdn:

UPDATE: Oh well, Surur shot me down on this one. $20 more than the standard 900 minute voice plan. Man, I got to learn to type faster.

 

[bruckwine]

Unlocked phones get a blow as it seems activation ANd contract required for ALl features including the iPod function..unless some tech genius can crack it!

 

[archie]

Well, the details of the price plans are out.


In some ways I think ScottR was right, as $60 is a lot closer to $45 than $80, but on the other hand 450 minutes is a bit low...

Surur

And so it goes. surur chooses to ignore the fact that I was only off by a penny in saying 59.98 for the total.

 

[surur]

Archie, I would NEVER ignore you <3

Surur

 

[archie]

I would agree with Mal and guess 40-50 bucks, to coincide with their pda plan.

Archie saying 19.99 is way too optimistic. not that I'm surprised

You should have agreed with me.