1. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Why does eberyone say the phone is $600?

    It's really $2,600 for the phone and 2 years service.

    Not a price compliant, just an observation.
    06-24-2007 11:42 PM
  2. braj's Avatar
    Why does eberyone say the phone is $600?

    It's really $2,600 for the phone and 2 years service.

    Not a price compliant, just an observation.
    I think the assumption is that you would have service anyway.

    One other thing that makes me reluctant to get an iPhone when it develops more to my liking is that you can't get it unlocked. I bought my Treo unlocked so I could use a $20 a month unlimited data/200 SMS plan. It would have been $40 per month with the plan ATT steers you to to receive a discount. $240 more per year and I'd have to sign a 2 year contract. $480 for 2 years for data alone. I like having the freedom to switch carriers if I find something lacking and still use my old phones.

    I actually went through hell with ATT when they were acquired by Cingular: we couldn't get new replacement phones for our family plan (stuck with way outdated choices), we couldn't get converted to Cingular members, and had to wait until our contract was up with ATT to switch to Cingular officially, though it was part of the same company. Now Cingular just became AT, I'm just glad we didn't go through that nonsense again. Thsi all happened just in the last few years. You can never tell what telecoms will do and who the best will be in the next year, so why lock yourself into anything?
    06-24-2007 11:53 PM
  3. archie's Avatar
    Why does eberyone say the phone is $600?

    It's really $2,600 for the phone and 2 years service.

    Not a price compliant, just an observation.
    Another of mikec 's great pronouncements based on knowledge no doubt. "The iPhone will cost $2,600", says mikec.

    We'll see about that.

    Anyway; assuming your guess here is actually the case, how does this differ from others. You have to pay for data service if you want it. You have to pay for voice service if you want it. This is not a negative of the iPhone. It is like this with every phone made by these manufacturers.

    BUT, what if you purchased an iphone and then got a voice plan and a data plan. Maybe this voice plan is $39.99 a month and data is $19.99 a month?

    That's $1220 total with the iPhone included. You could be really far off here mikec. Even given a voice plan of say $49.99 a month and data plan of $29.99 a month, your still way over by more than $1000.

    But I guess we'll just have to see who is correct, blah, blah, blah...


    Can't be me who is correct though because I obviously have no idea what I am talking about.
    06-25-2007 04:55 PM
  4. MacUser's Avatar
    I think the assumption is that you would have service anyway.
    Agreed. Friday we'll know if AT&T is going to try to gouge the iPhone customers with data plans....
    06-25-2007 05:02 PM
  5. Malatesta's Avatar
    Another of mikec 's great pronouncements based on knowledge no doubt. "The iPhone will cost $2,600", says mikec.

    We'll see about that.
    Well, if BGR is to be believed, this is the most detail as of right now:

    The Boy Genius may have found some details on the iPhone data plan, purportedly dubbed the "iPlan." The word is that this unlimited data plan -- unlimited at EDGE speeds is, of course, by definition a bit limiting -- will squeeze your wallet for between $34 and $44 dollars and may include 2,000 or unlimited text message
    + Voice plan = ?

    My only contention is that Sprint (and only Sprint) has really the only bargain prices for data, imo: $15 unlimited 3g.

    Paying anymore than that and getting less speed is just an automatic turn off for myself but I'm sure if you are willing to drop $600 on the phone, paying $80+ a month for basic cell service is not an issue.

    I highly, highly doubt we'll see $19.95 unlimited data plans though. The plans are supposed to be announced before Friday, according to AT&T.
    06-25-2007 05:26 PM
  6. Certs's Avatar
    I would agree with Mal and guess 40-50 bucks, to coincide with their pda plan.

    Archie saying 19.99 is way too optimistic. not that I'm surprised
    06-25-2007 05:42 PM
  7. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Another of mikec 's great pronouncements based on knowledge no doubt. "The iPhone will cost $2,600", says mikec.

    We'll see about that.

    Anyway; assuming your guess here is actually the case, how does this differ from others. You have to pay for data service if you want it. You have to pay for voice service if you want it. This is not a negative of the iPhone. It is like this with every phone made by these manufacturers.

    BUT, what if you purchased an iphone and then got a voice plan and a data plan. Maybe this voice plan is $39.99 a month and data is $19.99 a month?

    That's $1220 total with the iPhone included. You could be really far off here mikec. Even given a voice plan of say $49.99 a month and data plan of $29.99 a month, your still way over by more than $1000.

    But I guess we'll just have to see who is correct, blah, blah, blah...


    Can't be me who is correct though because I obviously have no idea what I am talking about.
    I am estimating a good usable number of minutes (1,000 or so) and unlimited data at $100 a month (inc taxes).

    That is not outlandish and probably very close to reality. So that's 2,400+600.

    My bad...it's actually $3,000.
    06-25-2007 05:57 PM
  8. mikec#IM's Avatar
    that's my point; the lack of 3G does not diminish or reduce demand, that is unless you think 15-20mm in unit sales is a small number. many posters around here require it, consumer america doesn't necessarily need it.

    yes it's nice but it isn't a requirement.

    and how many Treos have 3G capability? and how long have they been being sold for?
    Several Treos that have been sold for over a year have had 3G.
    06-25-2007 05:59 PM
  9. Malatesta's Avatar
    consumer america doesn't necessarily need it.

    yes it's nice but it isn't a requirement.

    and how many Treos have 3G capability? and how long have they been being sold for?
    That just seems to be an odd statement regarding a device who does nearly everything via the internet: email, YouTube, stocks, full Safari web browser, web-based applications, weather, Google Maps etc. to just sort of write-off 3g data as a non-issue.

    If anything, this device is more reliant on data than any other device so far (weather, google maps, youtube are all 3rd party addons for other devices, not their main selling point).

    As far as Treos go, the fact is that things like Blazer and PIE are optimized for mobile internet sites, so they consume less data and make browsing quicker. It's not that no one has ever thought of putting a full browser on a device, just that it is impractical for everyday use (and inefficient, since you are downloading and processing lots of irrelevant data).

    That's the odd thing with the iPhone: full web browser at dial up speeds. It's sort of the opposite that you would expect for that evolution in web based applications.
    06-25-2007 06:13 PM
  10. oalvarez's Avatar
    again, it works adequately when using my T-Mo Pearl. i too check the weather, google, but do honestly do not view you-tube on my device. but when i do access the internet or even use the device as a modem it functions adequately. so, for me it works. it sounds like the counter arguement is that it won't work fast enough for what the iPhone is said to offer. out of curiousity, has it been tested or reported on by some outside source at this point? it simply doesn't make sense that they would produce a device that touts an internet experience but which doesn't deliver. for me it's pretty simple; i'll give it a try, if i find it to be too slow for what i use it for then i'll have a reason to return it. one thing it won't do is replace my Pearl for business use.
    06-25-2007 06:42 PM
  11. Malatesta's Avatar
    it sounds like the counter arguement is that it won't work fast enough for what the iPhone is said to offer. out of curiousity, has it been tested or reported on by some outside source at this point? it simply doesn't make sense that they would produce a device that touts an internet experience but which doesn't deliver.
    Well, it does...just via Wifi.

    That's what Job's used during the presentation and that's what they show the device using in videos. So they are not lying just qualifying the experience. (Remember it took 20 secs for the NY Times website via wifi in January...maybe that's improved a bit, but it gives you a ballpark estimate over wifi)

    Fact is, 80kbps is still 80kbps no matter which way you cut it. When you add lots of graphics and full websites to download, it's not too hard to predict what to expect.

    Maybe they're using the Apple servers as a proxy (one more argument against unlocked devices) and it'll help, but even Sidekicks are poky for surfing the net.

    The only out-side reports are from Engadget which gave it a thumbs down. The other was the wine-expert who ran into a tester using it, he said it was faster than he expected/not that bad.
    06-25-2007 06:51 PM
  12. oalvarez's Avatar
    so it would seem like having the Wi-Fi capability is a feature, just like the one that many ask for in their Treos and other devices that don't come with it built in. my opinion is that EDGE works satisfactorily for my needs and i also think it does suffice for many others. come this fri/sat i'll be able to see how different the Pearl internet browsing experience is to that of the iPhone.

    regards
    06-25-2007 07:01 PM
  13. Scott R's Avatar
    The phone is not being subsidized by AT&T, but any new plan will require a 2-year contract. Instead of subsidizing the phone, Apple has worked with AT&T to pass along the savings (that they would normally do via a subsidy) by way of a better rate plan. So this rumored $35-45 plan will not just be the price for unlimited data, it will be the entire plan cost (voice minutes plus unlimited data). That's my prediction and I'm sticking to it.

    Think about it...
    - The phone costs between $500 and $600 (fact).
    - Most agree that signing up with AT&T will require a 2-year commitment, based on the fact that: a) A 2-year commitment was mentioned in early ads, and b) All current plans on the AT&T website require a 2-year commitment (so I'll call this one somewhere between a fact and a very strong possibility).
    - AT&T has hired 2000 new people just to handle this product release (fact).

    Do you really believe that there are *that* many people who commit to a 2-year contract with an expensive monthly rate for an already expensive phone? Do you believe that Jobs and AT&T are completely out of touch with this reality? So the only possibility that remains is that there is yet another surprise awaiting people which will help to push people to buy an expensive phone and commit to a 2-year contract. That surprise is a very attractive phone/data plan price.
    06-25-2007 08:24 PM
  14. bruckwine's Avatar
    The phone is not being subsidized by AT&T, but any new plan will require a 2-year contract. Instead of subsidizing the phone, Apple has worked with AT&T to pass along the savings (that they would normally do via a subsidy) by way of a better rate plan. So this rumored $35-45 plan will not just be the price for unlimited data, it will be the entire plan cost (voice minutes plus unlimited data). That's my prediction and I'm sticking to it.

    Think about it...
    - The phone costs between $500 and $600 (fact).
    - Most agree that signing up with AT&T will require a 2-year commitment, based on the fact that: a) A 2-year commitment was mentioned in early ads, and b) All current plans on the AT&T website require a 2-year commitment (so I'll call this one somewhere between a fact and a very strong possibility).
    - AT&T has hired 2000 new people just to handle this product release (fact).

    Do you really believe that there are *that* many people who commit to a 2-year contract with an expensive monthly rate for an already expensive phone? Do you believe that Jobs and AT&T are completely out of touch with this reality? So the only possibility that remains is that there is yet another surprise awaiting people which will help to push people to buy an expensive phone and commit to a 2-year contract. That surprise is a very attractive phone/data plan price.
    Wow...voice, data AND unlimited text for $40?! They might as well give them away free (*hoping*)
    06-25-2007 08:34 PM
  15. surur's Avatar
    Do you really believe that there are *that* many people who commit to a 2-year contract with an expensive monthly rate for an already expensive phone? Do you believe that Jobs and AT&T are completely out of touch with this reality?
    Be that as it may but:

    The phone is not being subsidized by AT&T, but any new plan will require a 2-year contract. Instead of subsidizing the phone, Apple has worked with AT&T to pass along the savings (that they would normally do via a subsidy) by way of a better rate plan.

    Think about it...
    - The phone costs between $500 and $600 (fact).
    - Most agree that signing up with AT&T will require a 2-year commitment, based on the fact that: a) A 2-year commitment was mentioned in early ads, and b) All current plans on the AT&T website require a 2-year commitment (so I'll call this one somewhere between a fact and a very strong possibility).
    - AT&T has hired 2000 new people just to handle this product release (fact).
    This argument rests upon AT&T saving money by not subsidizing the IPhone. In fact, they are making much less money than usual on the IPhone, with Apple even taking a share of the monthly revenue of the IPhone, and the phone itself leading to huge start up costs (2000 new employees, tweaking edge, stanchions etc).

    That $200 that AT&T will have saved in not subsidizing the IPhone will probably go nicely into Apple's pocket over a two year period. AT&T has no incentive to decrease their revenue further.

    Surur
    06-25-2007 08:36 PM
  16. oalvarez's Avatar
    curious to know how much they'll pay these 2000 employees and how long they'll be employed for
    06-25-2007 08:59 PM
  17. Scott R's Avatar
    Wow...voice, data AND unlimited text for $40?! They might as well give them away free (*hoping*)
    I pay less than $40/month with my Sprint SERO plan. That gives me unlimited EVDO and unlimited mobile-to-mobile. So it really shouldn't be considered so shocking that AT&T could sell a similar plan.
    06-25-2007 09:07 PM
  18. Scott R's Avatar
    This argument rests upon AT&T saving money by not subsidizing the IPhone. In fact, they are making much less money than usual on the IPhone, with Apple even taking a share of the monthly revenue of the IPhone, and the phone itself leading to huge start up costs (2000 new employees, tweaking edge, stanchions etc).

    That $200 that AT&T will have saved in not subsidizing the IPhone will probably go nicely into Apple's pocket over a two year period. AT&T has no incentive to decrease their revenue further.
    Are there any definitive facts you can link to regarding Apple taking a share of AT&T's revenue? I've heard that mentioned before, but haven't see any solid evidence/quotes on that yet. If true, I would tend to agree that it wouldn't be in AT&T's interest to offer a better plan to iPhone users.

    But I'm not sure where you're coming from when you suggest that AT&T is in essence "losing money" as compared to their other phones. I'm sure you would agree that they will still be making money on iPhone users via the monthly plan. If they're "making less" money from iPhone users as compared to buyers of other phones they sell, one needs only counter with: Yes, but the iPhone has the sex appeal and marketing muscle to bring in a lot of new customers. All of the phone companies want subscribers. They want them locked in and they want them to remain customers (low churn).
    06-25-2007 09:15 PM
  19. MacUser's Avatar
    But I'm not sure where you're coming from when you suggest that AT&T is in essence "losing money" as compared to their other phones. I'm sure you would agree that they will still be making money on iPhone users via the monthly plan. If they're "making less" money from iPhone users as compared to buyers of other phones they sell, one needs only counter with: Yes, but the iPhone has the sex appeal and marketing muscle to bring in a lot of new customers. All of the phone companies want subscribers. They want them locked in and they want them to remain customers (low churn).
    Makes sense to me.

    I already have an expired contract. So, I'll either just buy the phone and pop in the card saving my rollover minutes, or get an Apple low cost <hopefully> data/voice plan.
    06-25-2007 10:38 PM
  20. braj's Avatar
    "Apple" and "low cost" have never gone together, I doubt we'll be seeing that with the iPhone. Part of the allure of Apple products is that they are exclusive. Some people will happily pay $75+ a month to be seen with an iPhone, in the same way they spend the money on a Benz or a Fendi purse. Upscale consumers don't see value in the same way as the general public. And some 'uppity' poor folks want to have that 'bling' too, and would starve themselves to afford it.
    06-25-2007 10:49 PM
  21. MacUser's Avatar
    Some people will happily pay $75+ a month to be seen with an iPhone, in the same way they spend the money on a Benz or a Fendi purse. Upscale consumers don't see value in the same way as the general public. And some 'uppity' poor folks want to have that 'bling' too, and would starve themselves to afford it.
    I'm not happy paying $100 a month for my Treo with a data plan and a family talk voice plan. But, for me, I need a phone/organizer for my work and meetings. I schedule my own appointments and meetings, not my secretary, so I'm not big on the Outlook.

    Still, I totally know what you're saying about poorer people spending more than they can afford for the status symbol. It's sad, but somewhat understandable. There's a really good book by Ruby Payne: Framework for Understanding Poverty that gets into the culture and values of those living in poverty.
    06-25-2007 11:03 PM
  22. Certs's Avatar
    so it would seem like having the Wi-Fi capability is a feature, just like the one that many ask for in their Treos and other devices that don't come with it built in. my opinion is that EDGE works satisfactorily for my needs and i also think it does suffice for many others. come this fri/sat i'll be able to see how different the Pearl internet browsing experience is to that of the iPhone.

    regards
    I use edge mostly myself, for battery sake, but I have to disagree with you here. You really think surfing the web will be satisfactory over EDGE viewing full hmtl web pages? I mean, I HOPE it is, but I highly doubt it...
    06-25-2007 11:18 PM
  23. oalvarez's Avatar
    i'm only giving you my opinion of my own usage. does my Pearl download TreoCentral as fast as my desktop? no, it doesn't. does it bother me that it doesn't? no, it doesn't. would i pay more for faster service if it were available with my service provider, yes, sure, why not, i can afford to. but truthfully it's not a requirement for me. i can live without those desktop speeds and i'm pretty sure others out there can and do themselves. how long have i been using my Pearl for? even when i had a 3G device it wasn't always receiving that signal. i will repeat, 3G is fast, it is a nice feature to have, but for myself and some others i don't think it's a necessity.

    remember, the iPhone does offer integrated wi-fi capability. it's not as though it only offers EDGE.
    06-25-2007 11:40 PM
  24. surur's Avatar
    Are there any definitive facts you can link to regarding Apple taking a share of AT&T's revenue? I've heard that mentioned before, but haven't see any solid evidence/quotes on that yet. If true, I would tend to agree that it wouldn't be in AT&T's interest to offer a better plan to iPhone users.

    But I'm not sure where you're coming from when you suggest that AT&T is in essence "losing money" as compared to their other phones. I'm sure you would agree that they will still be making money on iPhone users via the monthly plan. If they're "making less" money from iPhone users as compared to buyers of other phones they sell, one needs only counter with: Yes, but the iPhone has the sex appeal and marketing muscle to bring in a lot of new customers. All of the phone companies want subscribers. They want them locked in and they want them to remain customers (low churn).
    As I said, less in comparison to another phone, as you said they make it up on new subscribers, but still there is no incentive to subsidize them further when Apple already takes a cut.

    Surur
    06-26-2007 02:31 AM
  25. surur's Avatar
    Well, the details of the price plans are out.

    Apple has released details of the service plans that will be available for the iPhone. Three special monthly plans are available:

    - $59.99 for 450 voice minutes
    - $79.99 for 900 voice minutes
    - $99.99 for 1,350 voice minutes
    All three plans include unlimited data (email & web), Visual Voicemail, 200 SMS text messages, roll over minutes and unlimited mobile to mobile calling. Plans have a $36 one-time activation fee and are two year contracts. Family plans will also be available, but were not disclosed at this time. In addition, any standard AT&T service plan may be chosen.
    http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2007/06/26plans.html

    In some ways I think ScottR was right, as $60 is a lot closer to $45 than $80, but on the other hand 450 minutes is a bit low, I think forcing most people to go for the $80 plan. The 200 texts are a bit low too.

    Surur
    06-26-2007 09:30 AM
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