1. HowardH's Avatar
    http://www.sonyericsson.com/spg.jsp?...e=pp&pid=10391

    SE has a whole line of walkman phones, above is what I was considering recently.

    Not to mention any Palm or WM, Nokia has 4GB music phones, Cingular lists 34 different MP3 phones on their website alone.

    Not to say that they all are as good as an iPod but it is not as if music players haven't made it into cell phones yet (just like the internet). Because it isn't an iPod branded player doesn't mean anything.
    Those are some nice phones. I don't know enough about them to know where they sit in terms of functionality between the iPod style experience and the "drag and drop your MP3 files onto the phone" experience of the old days, but that's my point about granularity. At some point between those two extremes, a phone becomes a "good" music player.
    06-23-2007 11:10 PM
  2. Kupe#WP's Avatar
    Ask your mother what the difference is between the Internet and the World Wide Web.

    Broadband proliferation does not (thankfully) require the layman to understand the Internet.
    So what might your definition be? How to effectively use the internet or how to build it?

    My mother (rest her soul) didn't need to know how to assign an IP address to a corporate user - but she could, as a 75-year-old, surf the web, search (quite proficiently) her interest areas, manage email mailing lists, shop like a demon , etc - you know, the same kinds of things incompetent (your word, I believe) iPhone users will do with their (abysmal) EDGE-limited devices - only mom was able to do it faster 7 years ago than iPhone users will be able to this year!
    06-23-2007 11:15 PM
  3. HowardH's Avatar
    So what might your definition be? How to effectively use the internet or how to build it?

    My mother (rest her soul) didn't need to know how to assign an IP address to a corporate user - but she could, as a 75-year-old, surf the web, search (quite proficiently) her interest areas, manage email mailing lists, shop like a demon , etc - you know, the same kinds of things incompetent (your word, I believe) iPhone users will do with their (abysmal) EDGE-limited devices - only mom was able to do it faster 7 years ago than iPhone users will be able to this year!
    The Internet really refers to the underlying transport and the Web is the application layer on top. So from that perspective, Steve would be a dumbass to say he literally has the Internet in his pocket and we'd be dumbasses for thinking that he meant it literally (regardless of whether it was intended as literal or not).

    We're all incompetent in some areas. I have never changed the oil in my car. Just like I'm mechanically incompetent (even though I spend more time than on the road than the average person) there are plenty of people (including my mother) who are equally incompetent when it comes to the Internet, yet they are able to do day to day stuff ok. Nothing to be ashamed about.

    The irony of forums like this is that most of us ARE in the expert category and therefore are often NOT the target market for the devices that we love. By definition we're not the "mass" part of our market.
    06-23-2007 11:28 PM
  4. Kupe#WP's Avatar
    So from that perspective, Steve would be a dumbass to say he literally has the Internet in his pocket and we'd be dumbasses for thinking that he meant it literally (regardless of whether it was intended as literal or not).
    Yet there were a significant number of dumbasses he was aiming that comment at - a lot of them applauding with great vigor at the statement - so I think it's safe to say that while Steve may know he doesn't personally have the internet in his pocket, he was hoping to convince a bunch of dumbasses that it had never been done before he did it - and it appears he's succeeded at the dumbass level. After all, those same dumbasses probably sing "He's Got the Whole World in His Hand" about Steve during quiet times, so why wouldn't he have the measly whole internet in his pocket?
    06-23-2007 11:46 PM
  5. tirk's Avatar
    ....a comparable music experience to the iPhone?
    That's the problem. It's meaningless marketing BS, that can be interpreted to mean "are exactly like the iPhone".

    Functionally, pTunes on my 680 does all that the iPhone does and more (eg., plays .OGG files, of which I have several GB). I have no idea if that's a "comparable music experience", I just know it's better, end of.
    06-24-2007 05:46 AM
  6. marcol's Avatar
    Functionally, pTunes on my 680 does all that the iPhone does and more (eg., plays .OGG files, of which I have several GB). I have no idea if that's a "comparable music experience", I just know it's better, end of.
    How's the audio quality on the 680? I found the 650 to be fairly poor, better than the 600 (which was unlistenable) but still a fairly unpleasant experience. For all the plusses and minuses (OGG, iTunes integration, ease and speed of sync etc, etc) the most important thing is what ends up in your ears. Apple know this and iPods sound pretty decent. If Palm have learned this lesson with the latest devices that's great, but it certainly wasn't apparent with the Treo 600 and 650.
    06-24-2007 06:15 AM
  7. tirk's Avatar
    How's the audio quality on the 680? I found the 650 to be fairly poor, better than the 600 (which was unlistenable) but still a fairly unpleasant experience.
    The trouble is that's so subjective. It's fine to my ears, but then again, so was the 600.
    06-24-2007 06:35 AM
  8. marcol's Avatar
    The trouble is that's so subjective.
    I agree but not in the way you might prefer something to be blue and I might prefer it in red. Although I'd struggle to define them, I do think there's objective aspects to audio quality. One measure at least might be fidelity - does a piano sound like a piano etc.

    Anyway, if a 680 sounds no better than a 600 it's not for me, but if an iPhone sounds as good as any of the current iPods, that would be fine.
    06-24-2007 07:34 AM
  9. tirk's Avatar
    I agree but not in the way you might prefer something to be blue and I might prefer it in red. Although I'd struggle to define them, I do think there's objective aspects to audio quality. One measure at least might be fidelity - does a piano sound like a piano etc.
    "Sound like" is subjective though.

    Anyway, I used to be a true audiophile; spent loads on equipment. Then one day I learnt to ignore the sound and enjoy the music, like I used to when I listened to John Peel, or Radio 3 on a crappy old valve radio in the 70s. I've not looked back since, and get far more fun from music (talking of which, Iron Maiden in Brixton tonight!)

    Anyway, if a 680 sounds no better than a 600 it's not for me....
    You know that's not what I said, right?
    06-24-2007 08:06 AM
  10. marcol's Avatar
    "Sound like" is subjective though.
    I just knew this would end up all Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

    Not a believer in pre-intellectual Quality then, huh? That's fighting talk.
    06-24-2007 08:44 AM
  11. tirk's Avatar
    I just knew this would end up all Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance
    How did we get from iPhone to I Ching?
    06-24-2007 10:24 AM
  12. marcol's Avatar
    iChing?
    06-24-2007 11:11 AM
  13. zeze22's Avatar
    So we already know there is no flash on the Iphone, and no java either. Now comes even more confidential news about how crippled the Iphone browser really is.


    http://forums.figma.com/showthread.php?p=31

    So forget about visiting Worth1000 or any FARK photoshop thread, or opening that large word document with pictures in Google docs.

    The Iphone is a nice mobile browser, but there are better ones, such as the one on the Nokia N95 that also uses webkit, but actually supports Java and Flash.

    Iphone however does not have the Real Internet. What a laugh.

    Surur

    Sometimes there's only one way to put it; You sound like a damn quixotic fool.
    06-24-2007 12:07 PM
  14. surur's Avatar
    Sometimes there's only one way to put it; You sound like a damn quixotic fool.
    Bit late in the thread, arnt you?

    Surur
    06-24-2007 12:08 PM
  15. bruckwine's Avatar
    Yet there were a significant number of dumbasses he was aiming that comment at - a lot of them applauding with great vigor at the statement - so I think it's safe to say that while Steve may know he doesn't personally have the internet in his pocket, he was hoping to convince a bunch of dumbasses that it had never been done before he did it - and it appears he's succeeded at the dumbass level. After all, those same dumbasses probably sing "He's Got the Whole World in His Hand" about Steve during quiet times, so why wouldn't he have the measly whole internet in his pocket?
    How's the audio quality on the 680? I found the 650 to be fairly poor, better than the 600 (which was unlistenable) but still a fairly unpleasant experience. For all the plusses and minuses (OGG, iTunes integration, ease and speed of sync etc, etc) the most important thing is what ends up in your ears. Apple know this and iPods sound pretty decent. If Palm have learned this lesson with the latest devices that's great, but it certainly wasn't apparent with the Treo 600 and 650.
    I have a 3rd gen iPod and a treo 680 - they sound the same to me tbh! Actually I stopped carrying around my iPod cuz apart from music that's it..I got bored (they DO take up space you know - rather have a phone in my pocket than a music player) so I use it mainly as my storage port where I can keep all my music (rather than use DVDs)... the plus of the treo in my book is the speakerphone...playing music via pTunes on that is fun in a quiet office..

    Btw does the iPhone have speakers separate from the earpiece? No one has mentioned that yet....
    06-24-2007 02:04 PM
  16. surur's Avatar
    Btw does the iPhone have speakers separate from the earpiece? No one has mentioned that yet....
    It has what looks like a small mono speaker.

    Surur
    06-24-2007 02:33 PM
  17. Kupe#WP's Avatar
    It has what looks like a small mono speaker.
    Correct - on the bottom edge, opposite the sync socket from the microphone.
    06-24-2007 02:48 PM
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