1. surur's Avatar
    Sure, I'll say it's just another mobile browser because Apple won't let it run a Flash plug-in (that is until Adobe recompiles it to take advantage of the new LLVM code providing for decreased processor cycles). Are you satisfied?

    But it will still be able to access FARK.

    And let you view web pages as originally constructed
    And it gives you full inline/offline PDF support
    And it gives you tabbed browsing instantly switching form site to site
    And it gives you contextual menus when pressing and holding on specific content
    And it gives you phone number and e-mail address integration...
    You know there are a number of browsers than can do this already don't you. Where's the 5 years ahead?

    All I am doing is deflating the Apple hype train, and only on this site. One could as well ask what's your mission to promote this underpowered feature phone?

    Surur
    06-21-2007 04:35 AM
  2. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    I still think he works for Apple or a business partner of Apple's. Not that it matters to me, I just always get that feeling. But that's just what I think.
    06-21-2007 06:59 AM
  3. Kupe#WP's Avatar
    I still think he works for Apple or a business partner of Apple's. Not that it matters to me, I just always get that feeling. But that's just what I think.
    In either case, he's not serving his employer particularly well. :thumbsdn:
    06-21-2007 07:14 AM
  4. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    That depends. On a tough forum like this it's hard, but if he were this excited over the iPhone on say a teen forum or something like that, it may sell phones. I've heard of this type of marketing before. Of course I don't know for sure that's what he's doing, but sometimes I do wonder.
    06-21-2007 07:50 AM
  5. oalvarez's Avatar
    MikeC, please explain to us those instances where one might be limited to 10mb......i'm sure many would love to know what it is that they're getting themselves into prior to purchasing the iphone.

    thanks!
    hi friends.....the list must be taking a long time to compile or perhaps those instances are truly hard to find.....sounds like a low risk situation given the silence.


    lets move the advisory system warning level back to green.....
    06-21-2007 07:51 AM
  6. tirk's Avatar
    That depends. On a tough forum like this....
    This place is a Sunday school compared to some of the football forums I know.

    (No, not the soft stuff you have in the US, I mean the game played with the foot!)
    06-21-2007 12:25 PM
  7. Certs's Avatar
    hi friends.....the list must be taking a long time to compile or perhaps those instances are truly hard to find.....sounds like a low risk situation given the silence.


    lets move the advisory system warning level back to green.....
    Are you allowed to quote yourself?

    I don't see 10MB as a big deal at all, BUT if you're running apps in safari, then it could be a problem. Everything is still so unclear, I can't wait to get one so I can REALLY push the thing!
    06-21-2007 12:59 PM
  8. mikec#IM's Avatar
    You know there are a number of browsers than can do this already don't you. Where's the 5 years ahead?

    All I am doing is deflating the Apple hype train, and only on this site. One could as well ask what's your mission to promote this underpowered feature phone?

    Surur
    Um, that would be an _overpriced_ underpowered feature phone...

    Actually, the iPhone is a PMP with portable web browsing - that is it's main purpose. The phone is secondary. When you look at it that way, it's takes on a different light.
    06-21-2007 01:08 PM
  9. Certs's Avatar
    Um, that would be an _overpriced_ underpowered feature phone...

    Actually, the iPhone is a PMP with portable web browsing - that is it's main purpose. The phone is secondary. When you look at it that way, it's takes on a different light.
    That's the issue...Apple wants you to believe it is a mini-OSX, combining the 4 elements. You're rationalizing it as a media player, with 3 other benefits. Big difference. That outlook justifies its shortcomings/disadvantages, but decreases its financial value.

    I happen to believe the apple view more than your PMP-first theory, but we won't know till we play with it.
    06-21-2007 01:13 PM
  10. surur's Avatar
    Value is a funny thing. An Ipod phone may very well be worth $600 (but of course cheaper with a subsidy) but thats not exactly a revolution, and would not have had all the hype.

    Surur
    06-21-2007 02:01 PM
  11. Certs's Avatar
    True, but not an 8GB ipod phone. Thats like an extra 400 bucks just for a phone no?
    06-21-2007 02:32 PM
  12. surur's Avatar
    True, but not an 8GB ipod phone. Thats like an extra 400 bucks just for a phone no?
    Phones are actually pretty expensive unlocked. Look at this LG PRADA phone, which has about the same hardware as the IPhone, except for WIFI and 8GB flash. Its 289 ($575) before tax. After subsidy its $60. The problem with the IPhone is not that its $600, but that Apple is refusing a subsidy.

    Surur
    06-21-2007 02:37 PM
  13. braj's Avatar
    True, but not an 8GB ipod phone. Thats like an extra 400 bucks just for a phone no?
    Well, also you get the web browser, email, big screen.

    But I think the memory should be much more if it is going to be an iPod. 8GB gets filled up very fast with music and videos. If you have an iPhone you probably will still want an iPod (but maybe Apple sees this as a good thing?).

    Hopefully v2 will have a 16GB or larger flash drive. I would love to see a micro SD slot too.
    06-21-2007 02:51 PM
  14. tirk's Avatar
    Well, also you get the web browser, email, big screen.
    Why not just use your existing phone with a Foleo then?

    Oh, hang on... :o
    06-21-2007 04:00 PM
  15. Certs's Avatar
    Well, also you get the web browser, email, big screen.
    I don't think its an ipod w/benefits, we were just talking about different philosophies. Read the upper portion of the page and you'll see what I mean. Surur and I were just going off on a tangent (getting off topic? NO WAY!)
    06-21-2007 04:06 PM
  16. braj's Avatar
    Why not just use your existing phone with a Foleo then?

    Oh, hang on... :o
    Actually I would rather have a Treo, 8 GB card and Foleo for $600 total than a iPhone v1. As much of a joke as it looks like, for the money it would be a more flexible office with some multimedia, which is what I personally need more than an iPod with an attached phone. Until the iPhone can be a mobile office I think it won't be the best choice for me.

    Maybe Palm should consider some bundled pricing for the Foleo and Treo combo. That may be the easiest way to get Foleos into people's hands.
    06-21-2007 04:12 PM
  17. Malatesta's Avatar
    I can't get MSFT Works out my ROM and it's taking up 200MB!Any suggestions?
    c'mon, you're kidding right?

    Without barely mentioning the idea of making your own, slippstreamed ROM (where you removed what you don't want, add what you do for auto installation) there is the "legal" and easy method:

    XP Lite

    I use this on all my machines. Rip out what you don't need, keep what you do. And I'm talking core components here...

    I'm thinking if this really bothered you, you never really asked for a solution since XP lite has been around since the late 90's and is very effective :thumbsup:

    (and is ROM the right words here? Or do you mean what your PC came with? Only mobile phones have ROM I thought, PCs have HDDs. You could also bypass this Works thing by buying from a different dealer who a) doesn't install XP/Vista and/or provides you with the install disk b) buying a PC with just the OS, no addons. It sounds like you bought a Dell, or Comaq or something. Try a different company, you'll save $$ and get what you want)
    06-21-2007 04:58 PM
  18. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    It DOES bother me, but I didn't know what XP Lite was. I'll look into it. Thanks!

    Yes, it's a bundled commercial laptop. It's fine except for the ingrained MSFT programs stuck in the ROM/HDD. I "uninstalled" but they're still there taking up space.
    06-21-2007 10:19 PM
  19. Gee-Man's Avatar
    So we already know there is no flash on the Iphone, and no java either. Now comes even more confidential news about how crippled the Iphone browser really is.


    http://forums.figma.com/showthread.php?p=31

    So forget about visiting Worth1000 or any FARK photoshop thread, or opening that large word document with pictures in Google docs.

    The Iphone is a nice mobile browser, but there are better ones, such as the one on the Nokia N95 that also uses webkit, but actually supports Java and Flash.

    Iphone however does not have the Real Internet. What a laugh.

    Surur
    Hi, I'm typically a lurker here. And for the record, I will NOT be getting an iPhone, I think the 1st release will probably have issues (as most tech products do) so I will wait to see whether it will be a good product before parting with my hard-earned money. I'm also quite happy with my Treo 650 and don't see the need to replace it at the moment.

    But as a web developer, this whole thread is based on pure misinformation. The specification you linked to is quite clear and unambiguous - 10 MB limit is the HTML code limit, NOT the size limit of the entire web page! 10 MB of actual HTML code would be one enormous web page, far bigger than anything I'd ever want to visit, even on my desktop computer. I doubt I've ever visited a 10 MB page ever, honestly. You'd be scrolling for what seems like days. A 10 MB page limit makes no sense - if that were the case, there would be no point to having QuickTime support in the iPhone(which it does), since QT movies are tend to be much larger than that.

    Let's put it this way, both pages you linked to as theoretically "unviewable" on the iPhone actually contain no more than 156K of HTML code.

    I know many people are trying really really hard to be contrarian about the iPhone, mainly because they're sick of hearing about it. I totally understand, believe me the hype feels like it's out of control. But please stick with the facts at hand rather than use whatever limited info we have to come to completely false conclusions. Maybe the iPhone will do what Apple says it will, and maybe it won't. I think it would be best to wait until a few unbiased people get the thing in their hands before coming to any conclusions either way.
    06-22-2007 02:36 AM
  20. braj's Avatar
    Hi, I'm typically a lurker here. And for the record, I will NOT be getting an iPhone, I think the 1st release will probably have issues (as most tech products do) so I will wait to see whether it will be a good product before parting with my hard-earned money. I'm also quite happy with my Treo 650 and don't see the need to replace it at the moment.

    But as a web developer, this whole thread is based on pure misinformation. The specification you linked to is quite clear and unambiguous - 10 MB limit is the HTML code limit, NOT the size limit of the entire web page! 10 MB of actual HTML code would be one enormous web page, far bigger than anything I'd ever want to visit, even on my desktop computer. I doubt I've ever visited a 10 MB page ever, honestly. You'd be scrolling for what seems like days. A 10 MB page limit makes no sense - if that were the case, there would be no point to having QuickTime support in the iPhone(which it does), since QT movies are tend to be much larger than that.

    Let's put it this way, both pages you linked to as theoretically "unviewable" on the iPhone actually contain no more than 156K of HTML code.

    I know many people are trying really really hard to be contrarian about the iPhone, mainly because they're sick of hearing about it. I totally understand, believe me the hype feels like it's out of control. But please stick with the facts at hand rather than use whatever limited info we have to come to completely false conclusions. Maybe the iPhone will do what Apple says it will, and maybe it won't. I think it would be best to wait until a few unbiased people get the thing in their hands before coming to any conclusions either way.
    I really think we need to wait and see what that 10MB limit really means. It could be as you say and that it is 10MB of HTML a (and Javascript) or it could include embedded media etc. I don't think it is entirely clear, even if it specifically says HTML. Does that mean HTML code on pages (only counting the HTML code itself) or HTML coded pages (counting all elements on the page). I don't know for sure. What is the point in the limit? Memory, correct? They don't allow all YouTube pages, only those formatted for compatability. So maybe something similar will end up being the case even for QT (can I load a 200MB QT movie in Safari, for example?).
    06-22-2007 03:16 AM
  21. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    10MB still sounds like they mean the whole page files to me, not just the HTML. But if they did truly mean only the HTML, we're safe!
    06-22-2007 03:46 AM
  22. surur's Avatar
    We don't know, but I am sure the device MUST be memory constrained. I think the 10 MB is HTML AND pictures.

    Surur
    06-22-2007 03:52 AM
  23. Treo Rat's Avatar
    But please stick with the facts at hand rather than use whatever limited info we have to come to completely false conclusions. Maybe the iPhone will do what Apple says it will, and maybe it won't. I think it would be best to wait until a few unbiased people get the thing in their hands before coming to any conclusions either way.
    AMEN!

    ...and I shall return when I get my own iPhone after June 29th like many other Treo users out there and I will give you the pros and cons even though I am a "Machead"

    I was at the Cingular store yesterday and heard this guy (with a Treo 650) berating the store employee for not giving him any info at all about the iPhone. I then asked him why he wanted to replace his Treo and he simply said that he wants an iPhone next week because he was sick and tired of 2-3 times his Treo resets daily. I suggested that maybe he should replace his Treo with the Blackberry Curve and his reply - "I want an iPhone!" And oh he was not even a Mac fanboy! He told me his laptop is a Dell
    06-22-2007 07:13 AM
  24. oalvarez's Avatar
    funny story TreoRat....."so sick and tired of his Treo's 2-3 daily resets".....shame that so many consider that normal operating procedure. let me guess, it doesn't happen to anyone's here.

    real life example? just yesterday my friend chucked his Treo in the can after it froze during trying to answer a call...that was the last straw for him too. got online and ordered a new Blackberry Curve.

    good stuff
    06-22-2007 08:17 AM
  25. Gee-Man's Avatar
    We don't know, but I am sure the device MUST be memory constrained. I think the 10 MB is HTML AND pictures.

    Surur
    It really can't mean that. Look at what the spec says:

    10MB max html size for web page
    Javascript limited to 5 seconds run time
    Javascript allocations limited to 10MB
    A page can include Javascript AND HTML, so the fact that they list both as separate line items immediately discounts the "total page limit" theory.

    Also, Safari on Mac, like most browsers, uses a progressive loading system - the HTML page is loaded first, then the images are filled in. You wouldn't be able to tell the entire page size until ALL images were fetched, which means that you'd see a completely blank page until everything "pops" on the screen. But it's obvious from looking at all the iPhone videos and demos and looking at Safari itself on a Mac that it uses the exact same progressive loading that it's always used.

    If you were right, the iPhone would have to start loading a page, displaying it as normally, then when it reaches the so-called "10MB limit" put up a message in the middle of loading that says "sorry, this page is too big" and blank out the screen.

    This makes no sense, Apple's engineers aren't complete idiots as people seem to think they are. Occam's razor and all that - which is more likely, that the spec means exactly what it says it means, which is a 10MB HTML limit (at a developer's conference, no less! Developers like specificity), or that it has a hidden meaning that would render a large number of pages useless on a device advertised as internet capable?
    06-22-2007 10:13 AM
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