1. marcol's Avatar
    Doesn't help a Treo 750v with no wifi (without wifi card), does it, especially with Vodafone and their poor data plans.
    Vodafone have got better but it's true their prices still aren't great:

    http://online.vodafone.co.uk/dispatc...pageID=MI_0005

    OTOH, there are much better data deals from other carriers, and I'd imagine the number of phones with Wifi is only going to increase (who knows, perhaps even Treos will have Wifi built in one day...)

    Didn't the self-same Nokia have huge issues with bricked devices after allowing ROM updates at home for the first time
    Links?
    06-19-2007 04:47 AM
  2. surur's Avatar
    Links?
    Nokia has at last pushed out updates for its N73 and N93 handsets after users grew increasingly frustrated at its self service software program.

    A new version of Nokia Update was made available this morning, allowing N93 users to upgrade their software. This follows the release of new firmware for the mobile operator's N73 handsets on 1 February.

    Nokia launched its DIY firmware upgrade service in August last year, and while many users have benefited from ready-to-install upgrades, the service has been plagued by bugs.

    The inherent instability of the N93 handset led to the suspension of updates last November, a situation only rectified by today's release, though anyone visiting a Nokia Service Centre could get an update.

    Bugs in the N73 have also led many to seek replacement firmware, but in this instance divergent firmware versions from operators have confused customers.

    Network operators have their own firmware versions for each handset, which may feature additional icons or applications, as well as preconfiguration settings for GPRS, etc.

    This means that when a new version of firmware is created the manufacturer must make different versions of it available for each operator.

    Allowing users to upgrade their own firmware has opened up some frustrating inconsistencies - users of the Nokia N73 on the 3 network that wanted to use their handset with GPS equipment found that a Bluetooth bug made it impossible, and worse, they couldn't download a fix, while users of the same handset on other networks could.

    Hopefully, today's news will mean all those bugs will be ironed out. Well, you can always hope. Do let us know.

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/08..._firmware_diy/
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/02...pdate_updated/

    Surur
    06-19-2007 05:15 AM
  3. marcol's Avatar
    Thanks. All of that of course doesn't relate to OTA updates and is really an argument for better quality control. That said, even with good QC we have to expect that new things will sometimes have bugs, but I'd content that doesn't necessarily imply we shouldn't have them. I mean, if you don't have updates via a desktop (which is what the Register article is referring to) and don't have them OTA, aren't you left going to a service centre or sending your phone to the manufacturer, neither of which is very convenient?
    06-19-2007 05:31 AM
  4. surur's Avatar
    Thanks. All of that of course doesn't relate to OTA updates and is really an argument for better quality control. That said, even with good QC we have to expect that new things will sometimes have bugs, but I'd content that doesn't necessarily imply we shouldn't have them. I mean, if you don't have updates via a desktop (which is what the Register article is referring to) and don't have them OTA, aren't you left going to a service centre or sending your phone to the manufacturer, neither of which is very convenient?
    Ive got nothing against OTA updates, but if I was updating my ROM, and I had a choice, I would do it while safely cradled. Its already a pretty hazardous undertaking, and look how the SD based 700p ROM update crashed and burnt.

    I still don't get C201's obsession with OTA updates. Any idea what point he was trying to prove?

    Surur
    06-19-2007 08:45 AM
  5. C201's Avatar
    Its pretty stupid to expect ROM updates OTA. But you do expect ROM updates over the air. Thats pretty stupid.

    Surur
    Stupid is as stupid ... well, just get a mirror and RTFM that comes with it.
    06-19-2007 08:56 AM
  6. marcol's Avatar
    Ive got nothing against OTA updates, but if I was updating my ROM, and I had a choice, I would do it while safely cradled. Its already a pretty hazardous undertaking, and look how the SD based 700p ROM update crashed and burnt.
    I genuinely don't know which we might expect to be better. OOH, a PC based approach has more components in the equation (the PC and who knows what associated software) and in general it's probably true that increasing the number of things that can fail increases the chance of failure. OTOH, I can see that it could be easier to recover from a stalled/failed update if you've got a PC in there to do some recovery work.

    Obviously I have little expertise in this, that's why my first first thought on this was to see what's being done at the moment and what's planned. I'd still contend that it can't be too silly a notion if major players consider it viable. Anyway, the main thing seems to me to be that whatever the method it should be checked and validated as well as is reasonably possible.


    I still don't get C201's obsession with OTA updates. Any idea what point he was trying to prove?
    Perhaps you guys could make up and work it out between you?
    06-19-2007 09:29 AM
  7. tirk's Avatar
    Stupid is as stupid ... well, just get a mirror and RTFM that comes with it.
    Get her! (as they say in these parts) :evil:
    06-19-2007 09:29 AM
  8. marcol's Avatar
    Stopping calling each other stupid might be a start!
    06-19-2007 09:31 AM
  9. C201's Avatar
    I still don't get C201's obsession with OTA updates. Any idea what point he was trying to prove?
    No obsession, just an awareness of your lack of forthrightness on Pages 7-9 regarding this area as it relates to comparative device specs. No big whoop.
    06-19-2007 02:53 PM
  10. surur's Avatar
    What comparative specs? When did I say the iphone did not have OTA updates? In fact, as far as I know we dont know if it has or not.

    Surur
    06-19-2007 03:09 PM
  11. samkim's Avatar
    Including Flash?
    Apparently, maybe yes, maybe no for Version-1 out of the box. :hmm:

    http://blog.i2fly.com/?p=392
    Someone who went to a WWDC session says no Flash or Java. Not sure how that reconciles with the NYT webpage.
    http://www.macrumors.com/2007/06/19/...nt-guidelines/
    06-19-2007 03:40 PM
  12. C201's Avatar
    When did I say the iphone did not have OTA updates?
    Translation:
    < < Edit by Septimus : What c201 means here is that he suspects the question presents a false dichotomy. > >
    06-19-2007 03:51 PM
  13. Dieter Bohn's Avatar
    I don't want to close this thread. But I will if need be.
    06-19-2007 04:28 PM
  14. archie's Avatar
    oh, oh

    Did surur have to call on the moderators to stick up for him? Was it getting to much for you surur? Did your world start to crumble?
    06-19-2007 05:07 PM
  15. Kupe#WP's Avatar
    Did surur have to call on the moderators to stick up for him? Was it getting to much for you surur? Did your world start to crumble?
    Mods! :thumbsdn:
    06-19-2007 05:45 PM
  16. Certs's Avatar
    oh, oh

    Did surur have to call on the moderators to stick up for him? Was it getting to much for you surur? Did your world start to crumble?
    Umm, umm, umm, its quite obvious that the mod edited something someone else said, which I would venture to guess was quite inappropriate. And that comment of yours is pretty childish, even for you, apple man

    I was hoping to see a na, na, na-na, na.... after that
    06-19-2007 06:58 PM
  17. C201's Avatar
    'Quite inappropriate'? Hardly.

    http://www.carm.org/apologetics/fallacies.htm

    False Dilemma - Two choices are given when in actuality there could be more choices possible.

    1. Example: You either did knock the glass over or you did not. Which is it?
    2. Example: Do you still beat your wife?
    06-19-2007 07:10 PM
  18. oalvarez's Avatar
    june 07 posters are so yesterday.
    06-20-2007 12:13 AM
  19. tirk's Avatar
    june 07 posters are so yesterday.
    I wish! :shake:
    06-20-2007 03:50 AM
  20. archie's Avatar
    The utility remains to be seen.
    Surur
    How's this for utility:

    • Favorite apps along bottom edge

    • Home button

    • Flick up or down to scroll

    • Drag up or down right hand side to quickly jump to a particular letter

    • Visual Voice Mail

    • Another gesture I mentioned, but one in which no one believed, was Swiping to delete an item or depending on context, sliding in or out a new page.

    • The mere idea of context sensitivity is something else that is not thought of with other manufacturers — unless you count the mere requirement of hitting an OK button to do anything. This OK button that others use is in every context so that doesn't really count anyway because circumstances do not change the event.

    • Sheet/Page sliding into view in proper context


    • "Touch To Return" banners across top of screen to access other apps that are open.
      Another feature I mentioned in which no one believed or people seemed to discount.


    • Efficiency everywhere: like only two taps to add a name to Favorites, two taps to add a phone number to Contacts, one tap call swapping (impossible with phones like the Treo), one tap to merge/conference calls (difficult with phones like Treo and others)

    • Largest keypad of any phone available for easy manual dialing.

    • The epitome of utility can be seen in Visual Voicemail and voicemail scrubbing

    • And how's this for utility: tap album list/album cover icon for a physical representation of interacting with your music as people did with LPs

    • Or flipping through your LP collection errr... music collection using CoverFlow, just like we used to do in the old days. THAT is utility.

    • Easily change buttons that are shown along bottom by simply dragging and dropping, with your finger, a new icon over an existing button.

    • Squeezing headset mic when music is playing performs various actions in this context, squeezing headset mic when a call comes in performs other actions appropriate to THAT context. Again, very much centered around utility and appropriateness that no other phone offers.
      ANOTHER feature I mentioned in which no one believed or people seemed to discount.

    • Context sensitive menu bar that displays one, two or three buttons when appropriate. No hidden functionality anywhere that would cause confusion or difficulty. A truly effective interface.

    • Pinch to zoom out, stretch to zoom in. OR as an alternative, you can double tap to zoom in or single two-finger tap to zoom out. Intuitive and context sensitive.

    • Google Maps! Driving Directions/Trip Planner/Traffic/Co-Pilot! Utility!

    • Quick Airplane mode switching.

    • Vibrate mode.

    • Even settings are context sensitive. Say, for example, you add a new e-mail account; this will give an additional pane under Mail settings. Utilitarian in view!

    • PDF, Word and Excel documents.
      I said this before and gave evidence, BUT AGAIN, no one believed me. This of course adds utility.
    06-22-2007 04:04 PM
  21. surur's Avatar
    Actually, compared to WM6 on a keyboarded device, the UI is pretty inefficient. Pretty, but inefficient.

    Surur
    06-22-2007 04:08 PM
  22. archie's Avatar
    Bwahahahahaha!!!!!
    06-22-2007 04:09 PM
  23. archie's Avatar
    Anyway, typical tactic of yours, side stepping the fact that I was correct (about the iPhones effectiveness and it's utility, as well as the many other things I included just now in that bulleted list) by quickly changing the subject to WM6.
    06-22-2007 04:12 PM
  24. surur's Avatar
    Actually its pretty inefficient.

    E.g to make a call on a WM smartphone, I start dialing the name in T9 from the today screen, after 3 key presses its usually filtered to the right contact, and press the dial button. The IPhone UI involves a lot of scrolling, which I imagine would take 3 times longer to find what you want.

    BTW, I'm still waiting for the Zirconia to show.

    Surur
    06-22-2007 04:15 PM
  25. archie's Avatar
    Well that's nice.

    I personally would rather just click on the actual, instantly available, LETTER to filter the list down (no need to hunt and peck through T9 to press the appropriate key the correct number of times to get to the letter of the name) or I might just want to have fun flicking through my contacts.
    06-22-2007 04:31 PM
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