1. surur's Avatar
    While the Dash does a good job at emulating a Blackberry's form factor, it still isn't exactly advanced in its OS, connectivity [Edge-only], video calling, etc. If it has sold well enough in its initial form, it may get a version-2 which puts it a bit more on the bleeding edge. Using it in the US in an unlocked form doesn't help either since TMo piggybacks onto at&t/Cingular where they lack their own towers. Appreciate the thought though.
    The Dash is more advanced than the IPhone.

    Surur
    06-18-2007 12:53 PM
  2. C201's Avatar
    The Dash is more advanced than the IPhone.

    Surur
    Presumably, this is a qualified statement intended to be read as 'for my needs/desires'. The Dash is no more advanced, technically, than any other WM-Smartphone Edition with wifi. WiFi has become a point of delineation between the US and EU, whereas data plans in the US are much less expensive than their EU counterparts, reducing the need (or presumed desire) for wifi. The opposite scenario is true in the EU, so we end up having conflicting needs by default. Therefore, any device will be judged from differing points of view, even when all personal biases are set aside.
    06-18-2007 01:11 PM
  3. dstrauss#IM's Avatar
    ...Why do all of these phones have such dreadful audio playback times? A major plus for the iPhone (if Apple's numbers are reasonably accurate) is that you can listen to fair bit of music before you need to start worrying about the effect on the battery.
    One has to ask if Apple did its music test with all wireless radios on or off. My bet is they turned off all the radios and ran the test for that length of time. Makes a heck of a difference to make it a single dimension device.
    06-18-2007 01:22 PM
  4. braj's Avatar
    Wifi isn't just useful for your net connection, syncing your music or video collection seems a more appropriate use than internet connectivity, so being off by default makes the most sense. I don't see how it would be necessary for email and phone-based web surfing. While edge isn't perfect I think it is adequate.

    It is nice to see that something in at least one area will be greater than predicted. I wish Palm would do that.
    06-18-2007 01:25 PM
  5. surur's Avatar
    How the tests were done:

    http://www.apple.com/iphone/technology/specs.html

    Check the extensive notes section at the bottom of the page.

    # Talk Time: Testing conducted by Apple in May and June 2007 using preproduction iPhones and software. All talk time testing was done connected to a 1900MHz network. All settings were default except: Call Forwarding was turned on; the WiFi feature Ask to Join Networks was turned off. Battery life depends on the cellular network, location, signal strength, feature configuration, usage, and many other factors. Battery tests are conducted using specific iPhone units; actual results may vary.

    # Standby: Testing conducted by Apple in May and June 2007 using preproduction iPhones and software. All settings were default except: Call Forwarding was turned on; the WiFi feature Ask to Join Networks was turned off. Battery life depends on the cellular network, location, signal strength, feature configuration, usage, and many other factors. Battery tests are conducted using specific iPhone units; actual results may vary.

    # Internet over WiFi: Testing conducted by Apple in May and June 2007 using preproduction iPhones and software. Internet over WiFi testing conducted using a closed network and dedicated web and mail server, simulating browsing to 20 popular URLs and checking mail once an hour. All settings were default except: Call Forwarding was turned on; the WiFi feature Ask to Join Networks and Auto-Brightness were turned off; WPA2 encryption was enabled. Battery life depends on the cellular network, location, signal strength, WiFi connectivity, feature configuration, usage, and many other factors. Battery tests are conducted using specific iPhone units; actual results may vary.

    # Internet over EDGE: Testing conducted by Apple in May and June 2007 using preproduction iPhones and software. Internet over EDGE testing conducted over a 1900 MHz EDGE, using a dedicated web and mail server, simulating browsing to 20 popular URLs and checking mail once an hour. All settings were default except: Call Forwarding was turned on; the WiFi feature Ask to Join Networks and Auto-Brightness were turned off. Battery life depends on the cellular network, location, signal strength, EDGE connectivity, feature configuration, usage, and many other factors. Battery tests are conducted using specific iPhone units; actual results may vary.

    # Video Playback: Testing conducted by Apple in May and June 2007 using preproduction iPhones and software. Video content was a repeated 2 hour 23 minute movie purchased from the iTunes Store. All settings were default except: Call Forwarding was turned on; the WiFi feature Ask to Join Networks and Auto-Brightness were turned off. Battery life depends on the cellular network, location, signal strength, feature configuration, usage, and many other factors. Battery tests are conducted using specific iPhone units; actual results may vary.

    # Audio Playback: Testing conducted by Apple in May and June 2007 using preproduction iPhones and software. The playlist consisted of 358 unique audio tracks, a combination of content imported from CDs using iTunes (128-Kbps AAC encoding) and content purchased from the iTunes Store (128-Kbps AAC encoding). All settings were default except: Call Forwarding was turned on; the WiFi feature Ask to Join Networks was turned off. Battery life depends on the cellular network, location, signal strength, feature configuration, usage, and many other factors. Battery tests are conducted using specific iPhone units; actual results may vary.
    So not exactly how they are planning to ship the device, are they?

    Surur
    06-18-2007 01:25 PM
  6. braj's Avatar
    Oh, NOOOO! archie is wrong, wrong, wrong.

    The iPhone can't possibly have better battery life than initially posted.
    Apple doesn't have the ability archie thinks it does to design software to provide superior battery life.
    blah, blah, blah



    Eat it!


    You know, its funny how I seem crazy, uninformed, naive or stupid until time passes and it reveals that I am correct; don't you think?

    Yet it happens continuosly and no one is willing to believe that I know what I am talking about.
    Posts like this are exactly why you get the level of respect you do. Think about it a bit.
    06-18-2007 01:26 PM
  7. C201's Avatar
    Makes a heck of a difference to make it a single dimension device.
    Yep! Just ask all those who put their Treo into Flight Mode while using GPS.
    06-18-2007 01:29 PM
  8. surur's Avatar
    Presumably, this is a qualified statement intended to be read as 'for my needs/desires'. The Dash is no more advanced, technically, than any other WM-Smartphone Edition with wifi. WiFi has become a point of delineation between the US and EU, whereas data plans in the US are much less expensive than their EU counterparts, reducing the need (or presumed desire) for wifi. The opposite scenario is true in the EU, so we end up having conflicting needs by default. Therefore, any device will be judged from differing points of view, even when all personal biases are set aside.
    Sorry, but objectively speaking things like DirectPush and 3rd party apps makes the Dash more advanced that the IPhone. The Phone's only advantage is its touch screen technology. Even the Helio Ocean is much more advanced than the IPhone.

    Surur
    06-18-2007 01:33 PM
  9. treobk214's Avatar
    Probably slower CPU, or they are switching off wifi by default, or they will suddenly announce the Iphone is double the thickness :evil:

    Surur

    Wow, you really have a vendetta against this gadget. Its only a phone! This is becoming very amusing to watch.
    06-18-2007 01:35 PM
  10. archie's Avatar
    Posts like this are exactly why you get the level of respect you do. Think about it a bit.
    Yes, you are right.

    But when people do not believe what I say, they ask for evidence or proof or links or whatever. Then I give it to them. Then they still doubt me. Granted this is human nature, but still...

    So then I am forced to ask them to review my history — or depending on the day, I take the opportunity to gloat. I know gloating isn't necessary, especially since I am faceless and nobody here knows who I am.
    06-18-2007 01:36 PM
  11. braj's Avatar
    Yes, you are right.

    But when people do not believe what I say, they ask for evidence or proof or links or whatever. Then I give it to them. Then they still doubt me. Granted this is human nature, but still...

    So then I am forced to ask them to review my history or depending on the day, I take the opportunity to gloat. I know gloating isn't necessary, especially since I am faceless and nobody here knows who I am.
    It shouldn't be about you. You make it about you.
    06-18-2007 01:42 PM
  12. C201's Avatar
    Even the Helio Ocean is much more advanced than the IPhone.

    Surur
    By the criteria you find compelling.
    06-18-2007 01:42 PM
  13. braj's Avatar
    The fact is the iPhone isn't 5 years ahead of any other phone like Jobs claimed. In some ways it is ahead (but not by 5 years) like visual voicemail, the UI graphics, the sensors, and the web browser. And in at least one way it is behind: the network speed. 3rd party apps is more a business decision and not a technical limitation. Not having bundled apps that people would expect isn't a technical limitation either, I'm sure those will show up.
    06-18-2007 01:48 PM
  14. archie's Avatar
    It shouldn't be about you. You make it about you.
    It has to be about "archie" when people don't believe what I say.

    Do you see other way?
    06-18-2007 01:48 PM
  15. surur's Avatar
    By the criteria you find compelling.
    How is the IPhone more advanced (by your criteria of course)?

    Surur
    06-18-2007 01:54 PM
  16. braj's Avatar
    It has to be about "archie" when people don't believe what I say.

    Do you see other way?
    It should be about the facts, not about you. If you present some facts with some way to prove your sources, people will give you more respect. If you are repeating what you hear from some rumor site, accurate or not, and don't present it as such, you won't get many believers. Don't present speculation or innuendo as facts, leave the possibility that you may be incorrect. If you have inside info then you (or your friends) are under an NDA and shouldn't be posting it anyway.
    06-18-2007 01:55 PM
  17. archie's Avatar
    The fact is the iPhone isn't 5 years ahead of any other phone like Jobs claimed. In some ways it is ahead (but not by 5 years) like visual voicemail, the UI graphics, the sensors, and the web browser.
    These things you mention have only progressed since the introduction of the iPhone. They probably would not have been approaching or attempting to look like the iPhone had the iPhone not actually been announced. So the mere announcement of the iPhone has propelled the market forward a good number of years.


    And in at least one way it is behind: the network speed.
    And how is Apple behind here? They cannot install 3G for everybody out there. This is not about Apple.
    With only 20% market being served 3G, it is hardly worth catering to. And now, with the ban of 3G chip sales that would have been devastating.... it is almost as if Apple had seen this coming.

    Hmmm... didn't Apple put up funding for Broadcom a couple years back.
    06-18-2007 02:04 PM
  18. C201's Avatar
    If you have inside info then you (or your friends) are under an NDA and shouldn't be posting it anyway.
    I'm sure you're just all over BGR for all the illegal leaks.
    06-18-2007 02:05 PM
  19. surur's Avatar
    These things you mention have only progressed since the introduction of the iPhone. They probably would not have been approaching or attempting to look like the iPhone had the iPhone not actually been announced. So the mere announcement of the iPhone has propelled the market forward a good number of years.

    And how is Apple behind here? They cannot install 3G for everybody out there. This is not about Apple.
    With only 20% market being served 3G, it is hardly worth catering to. And now, with the ban of 3G chip sales that would have been devastating.... it is almost as if Apple had seen this coming.

    Hmmm... didn't Apple put up funding for Broadcom a couple years back.

    Archie, you always make me laugh.

    Surur
    06-18-2007 02:10 PM
  20. braj's Avatar
    I'm sure you're just all over BGR for all the illegal leaks.
    Leave me alone.
    06-18-2007 02:11 PM
  21. marcol's Avatar
    How is the IPhone more advanced (by your criteria of course)?
    How about the UI for starters? WM UI vs iPhone UI is like Windows 95 vs OS X 10.4. The iPhone UI is elegant, simple, intuitive, fluid. It looks modern and makes WM look old, cluttered and clunky.
    06-18-2007 02:15 PM
  22. surur's Avatar
    How about the UI for starters? WM UI vs iPhone UI is like Windows 95 vs OS X 10.4. The iPhone UI is elegant, simple, intuitive, fluid. It looks modern and makes WM look old, cluttered and clunky.
    The utility remains to be seen. Lets give you 1 point for that. Score another 2 points for storage. -2 for no 3G, -3 for no 3rd party apps, -1 for no removable battery etc.

    Objectively its far from more advanced.

    Surur
    06-18-2007 02:17 PM
  23. archie's Avatar
    Anyway; THIS THREAD doesn't need to be about "archie".

    It is about the iPhone and Apple announcing it is giving us a full weekend of use out its one charge.

    Or in the case of Lady Treo, a "full day" of listening to music and also having enough power for phone calls for her sister.

    Should serve to allay people's fears of not making it through a day of heavy usage - unless you are mikec, or malaster or surur or any of the other haglers on witch hunt.
    06-18-2007 02:19 PM
  24. braj's Avatar
    How about the UI for starters? WM UI vs iPhone UI is like Windows 95 vs OS X 10.4. The iPhone UI is elegant, simple, intuitive, fluid. It looks modern and makes WM look old, cluttered and clunky.
    Not just the looks either, I assume it uses Quartz as opposed to bitmapped graphics. That's what it looks like anyway.
    06-18-2007 02:20 PM
  25. braj's Avatar
    The utility remains to be seen. Lets give you 1 point for that. Score another 2 points for storage. -2 for no 3G, -3 for no 3rd party apps, -1 for no removable battery etc.

    Objectively its far from more advanced.

    Surur
    But you can add points for the web browser, the sensors, and the voicemail.
    06-18-2007 02:22 PM
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