1. braj's Avatar
    Please give credit where credit is due. He's trolling every new thread that involves iPhone.
    You obviously don't know what trolling is. I didn't say anything negative against the iPhone, and specifically said it didn't fit my needs, but would be great for others. I like the damn thing.

    Now I have a pretty balanced view on all of these devices, nothing is perfect and I don't consider myself an advocate of any of them. I bought a Palm OS Treo only because it is familiar, I have a ton of software invested in Palm OS, and it did all the things on my 'must do' list. Go with WM, Apple, Palm, Symbian, whatever. If it is valuable to you then that's what matters.
    06-17-2007 11:02 PM
  2. braj's Avatar
    And you know this how? Years of Market Research and/or Statistics?

    Why don't you just admit you won't buy the iPhone because it doesn't fit your needs and be done with it? Merely bashing something which isn't right for you has zero impact on everyone else. Why are you trolling the thread?
    It's called being rational. You don't know what the questions were on that survey, how sound the data is, the credibility of the polling organization, how the people were selected to participate etc. etc etc. You just know a bullet point in a news story about it. Without some insight into the methodology and context of a poll you shouldn't give it your trust, let alone profess it to be truth in the news or in an online forum. I see all these sorts of polls as anecdotal. They may indicate a trend but they may be BS. This is why good science requires peer review.

    What do you expect when you post a thread, no one will respond with alternate perspectives?
    06-17-2007 11:12 PM
  3. C201's Avatar
    If you have a problem with me, then don't read or respond to my posts!! I'm only telling the reasons why I'M going to think carefully before getting an iPhone!! Did I say YOU didn't have right to spend your money on it? Can't you figure out I'm speaking from MY perspective?

    BTW, does the "ignore poster" button work? If so, USE IT!! I'm FAR from puritanical and I don't appreciate your generalizations!!! You need to get over yourself, seriously!!
    I only directed a single question to you, in particular. The rest of that post was an obvious generalization.

    Originally Posted by C201 View Post
    Honestly, [if there's such a thing among internet forums], what effect do you believe regurgitating the same complaints has on a potential buying market?
    No need to get testy. No harm intended.
    06-17-2007 11:14 PM
  4. oalvarez's Avatar
    And you know this how? Years of Market Research and/or Statistics?

    Why don't you just admit you won't buy the iPhone because it doesn't fit your needs and be done with it? Merely bashing something which isn't right for you has zero impact on everyone else. Why are you trolling the thread?
    WAIT! Braj said : The '9% of people...' poll is meaningless. It's just like bad science, people don't scrutinize how many people were sampled, who analyzed the data, how the question was asked, where the question was asked.

    he is absolutely right! that is business marketing/stats 101....seriously.....c'mon folks, opinions are welcomed but facts are facts. Braj is nothing but right in this case, marketing questions and responses can be interpreted in so many ways...and when you have less than a controlled sample, good luck!!. as far as the car analogies go, that's another story
    06-17-2007 11:48 PM
  5. C201's Avatar
    You obviously don't know what trolling is. I didn't say anything negative against the iPhone, and specifically said it didn't fit my needs, but would be great for others. I like the damn thing.
    Given your 2 week tantrum, your record speaks for itself.

    Now I have a pretty balanced view on all of these devices, nothing is perfect and I don't consider myself an advocate of any of them. I bought a Palm OS Treo only because it is familiar, I have a ton of software invested in Palm OS, and it did all the things on my 'must do' list. Go with WM, Apple, Palm, Symbian, whatever. If it is valuable to you then that's what matters.
    Why don't you just give the iPhone to me? I promise to slowly torture it by running excessive amounts of data through it, I'll be rough on the screen, play it too loud, run it's batteries dry, and give it one or two drops onto the pavement over the next couple of years Make it suffer a little bit over a long time.
    Yeah .... That's 'balanced'. :shake:
    06-17-2007 11:54 PM
  6. oalvarez's Avatar
    eek

    oh well....so much for balanced
    06-17-2007 11:58 PM
  7. braj's Avatar
    Given your 2 week tantrum, your record speaks for itself.





    Yeah .... That's 'balanced'. :shake:
    you obviously didn't get the joke. That guy started a thread saying he wanted to smash the iPhone as soon as he could. I said 'give it to me instead and I'll torture it with extended use'. The 'give it one or two drops onto the pavement over the next couple of years ' in a couple of years reflects real-world situations we all do with a device. How many gadgets have you accidentally dropped? Notice everything I said is what a real user would do.

    If you didn't get the joke you are pretty darn dense. You can give up your personal crusade against me, it doesn't appear you are bright enough to win.
    06-18-2007 12:05 AM
  8. C201's Avatar
    So much for intellectual honesty.
    06-18-2007 12:19 AM
  9. braj's Avatar
    So much for intellectual honesty.
    So much for intellectual capacity.
    06-18-2007 12:23 AM
  10. C201's Avatar
    So much for intellectual capacity.
    Your 2 week history of posting regurgitated sideswiping potshots, ad nauseum, against all-things-iPhone are a simple matter of record.

    Given your lack of historical intellectual honesty, I'll take your your sideswiping potshots toward me as a compliment. :thumbsup:
    06-18-2007 12:32 AM
  11. braj's Avatar
    Your 2 week history of posting regurgitated sideswiping potshots, ad nauseum, against all-things-iPhone are a simple matter of record.

    Given your lack of historical intellectual honesty, I'll take your your sideswiping potshots toward me as a compliment. :thumbsup:
    Oh, you're a fanboy. I see. That explains everything.

    It's a bit disturbing to see that you have been paying so much close attention to me. I don't consider anything I have said about the iPhone to be particularly harsh; I'm hoping it gets the issues that exist with it that make it a dealbreaker for me resolved (3G, either more Apple apps or allow real 3rd party development) because I don't have much faith left that Palm knows how to improve their products further. I personally really like Apple products, regret my last Windows Vista laptop purchase immensely, and would have loved the iPhone to have worked well for me this time around. IMO the only people who may feel I was so hard on the iPhone are fanboys. Which is particularly lame because in this instance you haven't even touched the thing you are so defensive about. Not to mention you are acting like this on a Palm forum (where you should really expect more Treo defensiveness than anything).

    I don't want to hijack this thread any more than has already been done. Let's drop this, you can meet me somewhere real if you want to duke it out, that's up to you
    06-18-2007 12:52 AM
  12. C201's Avatar
    It's called being rational. You don't know what the questions were on that survey, how sound the data is, the credibility of the polling organization, how the people were selected to participate etc. etc etc. You just know a bullet point in a news story about it. Without some insight into the methodology and context of a poll you shouldn't give it your trust, let alone profess it to be truth in the news or in an online forum. I see all these sorts of polls as anecdotal. They may indicate a trend but they may be BS. This is why good science requires peer review.

    What do you expect when you post a thread, no one will respond with alternate perspectives?
    Rather than offering your own highly speculative anecdotes, why not deal directly with the source and their methods? You certainly have had ample time and opportunity, given your contributions(?) in this thread.

    06-18-2007 12:54 AM
  13. braj's Avatar
    Rather than offering your own highly speculative anecdotes, why not deal directly with the source and their methods? You certainly have had ample time and opportunity, given your contributions(?) in this thread.

    That doesn't describe the source of polling or the methodology, that doesn't answer anything really. But where did you get that table, because in fairness to me it wasn't part of the story the original posted linked to. If there is more information it would certainly be interesting.

    I never said the poll isn't valid but that you shouldn't blindly trust or use polls with out knowing the details behind them. We see polls used unwisely every day in the media, the market and politics to manipulate us by asking a question in a certain way to certain people and at a certain time. You can be a fool and believe anything you hear but I personally take a grain of salt with my news and look for validation to people's claims.
    06-18-2007 01:18 AM
  14. C201's Avatar
    If you're so curious, why not research for a factual basis to your opinion on this poll? You have the source and obviously plenty of free time to pursue it. Or, are doubt and fear the only tools in your bag?
    06-18-2007 01:25 AM
  15. braj's Avatar
    If you're so curious, why not research for a factual basis to your opinion on this poll? You have the source and obviously plenty of free time to pursue it. Or, are doubt and fear the only tools in your bag?
    Where is the link to the official poll results?
    06-18-2007 02:31 AM
  16. marcol's Avatar
    Where is the link to the official poll results?
    http://www.mmetrics.com/press/PressR...0070615-iphone
    06-18-2007 04:44 AM
  17. tirk's Avatar
    Can someone compare someone else to the Nazis so we can invoke Godwin's Law and close this thread please?

    06-18-2007 08:39 AM
  18. beachtrader's Avatar
    It's called being rational. You don't know what the questions were on that survey, how sound the data is, the credibility of the polling organization, how the people were selected to participate etc. etc etc. You just know a bullet point in a news story about it. Without some insight into the methodology and context of a poll you shouldn't give it your trust, let alone profess it to be truth in the news or in an online forum. I see all these sorts of polls as anecdotal. They may indicate a trend but they may be BS. This is why good science requires peer review.

    What do you expect when you post a thread, no one will respond with alternate perspectives?
    No, I assume people will take opposite views. But I also assume they will not make blanket statements saying the poll is meanlingness. Check out M:Metrics before you just say they are BS; they use very good science and are very well respected.
    06-18-2007 09:30 AM
  19. C201's Avatar
    No, I assume people will take opposite views. But I also assume they will not make blanket statements saying the poll is meanlingness. Check out M:Metrics before you just say they are BS; they use very good science and are very well respected.
    I'm certain braj will communicate directly and thoroughly with M:Metrics to determine if they use t-squared or another proven method of deduction, giving them a 95%+ p-value, given the random sampling of those polled. As for being 'peer reviewed', sorry braj, but you're on your own there as you're inappropriately flaunting a term you're not terribly familiar with. Scientific polling, while clearly using sound, peer reviewed methods, do not peer review polling results except possibly within the context of someone's meta-analysis.

    Braj hasn't given any reason to doubt his research integrity, has he?

    btw, braj ... I'm no apple-muppet fanboy. The last Apple product (desktop computer/40MB HD/cannot remember the model) I purchased was 18 years ago and haven't seen it in years. What were you doing 18 years ago?
    06-18-2007 09:56 AM
  20. braj's Avatar
    Thanks. That still doesn't give detailed info on who was polled, what questions asked etc. so how can you really understand what the poll means? And one thing I found gave me pause:

    Among the UK subscribers who were aware of the iPhone, 30 percent, or seven million, reported strong interest in buying one, even though a launch date in Europe has yet to be announced.
    But the thing is seven million people weren't polled.

    Anyhow, I'm just skeptical by nature, so I take everything with a grain of salt.
    06-18-2007 02:10 PM
  21. C201's Avatar
    Twisting in the wind over a poor choice of wording is a weak argument, at best, since the number of those polled is large @ 5,293 in the UK alone. The 7M signifies a very high confidence value.

    Extrapolation. Look into it ... As well as all the rest of your statistical research.
    06-18-2007 02:42 PM
  22. braj's Avatar
    Twisting in the wind over a poor choice of wording is a weak argument, at best, since the number of those polled is large @ 5,293 in the UK alone. The 7M signifies a very high confidence value.

    Extrapolation. Look into it ... As well as all the rest of your statistical research.
    If you don't know the question was or who was asked, how can you possibly find the answer helpful? And the statement that '7 million people reported' anything was at least improperly worded and that alone throws some doubt into their methods. If they aren't careful here where else aren't they careful?

    Any I'm not saying the numbers don't represent some reality, just exactly what that reality is is not properly defined in those study results or available for review on their website.

    Your condescending posts to me many others are getting mighty old. Go grind your ax somewhere else. I'm just going to ignore you from now on, ok? I hope you don't mind.
    06-18-2007 03:24 PM
  23. samkim's Avatar
    Can someone compare someone else to the Nazis so we can invoke Godwin's Law and close this thread please?

    You have to be a certain kind of person to want to shut down discussion just because you find the contents disagreeable!
    06-18-2007 03:47 PM
  24. braj's Avatar
    You have to be a certain kind of person to want to shut down discussion just because you find the contents disagreeable!
    Nazi!
    06-18-2007 03:50 PM
  25. C201's Avatar
    If you don't know the question was or who was asked, how can you possibly find the answer helpful? And the statement that '7 million people reported' anything was at least improperly worded and that alone throws some doubt into their methods. If they aren't careful here where else aren't they careful?

    Any I'm not saying the numbers don't represent some reality, just exactly what that reality is is not properly defined in those study results or available for review on their website.

    Your condescending posts to me many others are getting mighty old. Go grind your ax somewhere else. I'm just going to ignore you from now on, ok? I hope you don't mind.
    I'll just file this under unconcerned since it was your contention at your entry into this thread that the pollster meet your criteria for having a sound method of polling. You only know enough to speak in vague generalities, and even when all sources available are delivered to you on a silver platter, per your request, you bail out? That's what this is about to you? An internet pissing contest?

    Call them. Email them. Interview them. Send smoke-signals but justify your argument with all the criteria you've demanded of the pollster. Otherwise ...
    06-18-2007 03:52 PM
85 1234
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD