the iPhone is not a Smartphone - my first reaction to the keynote

[newtonjack]

As somebody that has done some web development, my opinion is that ajax stinks, nobody uses it. Do not expect 3rd party apps that are like what you see on the palm os. I have no idea what apple is thinking.

Jobs is thinking 2 things, $$ and controll.

 

[TomUps]

I think you will see alot of apps like the one shown today in the keynote. The app was kind of like a telephone directory front-end connecting to a back-end ldap directory. There will probably be little or no local storage of anytype of databases or data. Dont expect to see financial apps, password keeping programs, 3rd party calenders, or anything else where data needs to be stored locally.

 

[KStewart]

I already have what I need in an iphone without the fancy screen, email and voice capabilities...its my ipod. My Treo with my ipod make it more than comparible.

 

[TheDot]

Hey Antoine, there are tons of apps; that as far as I know you will not be able to run through a web app without giving it control to local APIs(which would defeat the whole purpose of sandoxing)
Things like radio control apps, volume hacks, etc. Anything that would require access to hardware API's you just won't get.
Also; I'm not aware of this being spoke of or resolved; what happens when you go offline? will you lose connectivity to all your apps? Does this built in browser use something along the lines of Google's Gears? Sorry if I didn't catch the answer to this one.
I may be asking too much, but I subscribe to Make mags motto.. "If you can't open it, you don't own it." Or something like that.

What I'm really wishing for is an larger version of the IPhone that is open and not connected to a wireless carrier.
Maybe the next IPod will be what I'm looking for.

 

[cavingjan#IM]

Will you be able to run any of those web apps while on the phone? AKA Can they be completely cached on the phone so data access is not required to launch them?

 

[beachtrader]

Will you be able to run any of those web apps while on the phone? AKA Can they be completely cached on the phone so data access is not required to launch them?

Yeah, you should. Just like you could have html files and a web site on your local computer and browse it you should be able to do this with Safari.

A web browser is just a conduit to the programs/files on a server. In this case Safari will be the conduit to the programs/files on your iPhone instead.

As for the person who says they develop web development and doesn't know anyone who uses AJAX...well I guess they have never used google or google maps then. Gmail, google maps and a lot of other prominent sites use it and it runs very well.

 

[TomUps]

As for the person who says they develop web development and doesn't know anyone who uses AJAX...well I guess they have never used google or google maps then. Gmail, google maps and a lot of other prominent sites use it and it runs very well.

I stand by my statements. I invite anybody that works in a company that has web developers to ask them what they think about ajax. I bet you get very few positive comments.

 

[samkim]

Hey Antoine, there are tons of apps; that as far as I know you will not be able to run through a web app without giving it control to local APIs(which would defeat the whole purpose of sandoxing)
Things like radio control apps, volume hacks, etc. Anything that would require access to hardware API's you just won't get.
Also; I'm not aware of this being spoke of or resolved; what happens when you go offline? will you lose connectivity to all your apps? Does this built in browser use something along the lines of Google's Gears? Sorry if I didn't catch the answer to this one.
I may be asking too much, but I subscribe to Make mags motto.. "If you can't open it, you don't own it." Or something like that.

What I'm really wishing for is an larger version of the IPhone that is open and not connected to a wireless carrier.
Maybe the next IPod will be what I'm looking for.

But Steve said that these apps will be able to make calls and access emails. I'm not sure how that's consistent with not getting access to hardware APIs.

 

[Antoine of MMM#IM]

Can they be completely cached on the phone so data access is not required to launch them?

I wanna play with Safari 3 as I think there are answers there as to where Apple is thinking.

I know people on both sides of the AJAX coin. I like it when it is done well and is not just eyecandy. When rich application interaction means more than a long download time I get excited.

 

[surur]

Some-one said it very simply - will you be able to download a power point via Yahoo mail and then open it via Google office - in most cases this would completely violate any sandbox approach.

Surur

 

[marcol]

Not just possible, but easier to get wholesale approval from all the IM biggies since technically one could sign into all of them, and then have a wrapper screen that shows the state of the respective IMs.

Jolly good. Thanks.

 

[Antoine of MMM#IM]

Some-one said it very simply - will you be able to download a power point via Yahoo mail and then open it via Google office - in most cases this would completely violate any sandbox approach.

At this point Google wouldn't let you do that. However, Google Gear's makes me think that at some point one could have instances of Google Office (or any web office client) in a browser tab/window and then it would be for the respective client to have the appropriate controls (APIs) to enable this functionality.

But like it was stated above, this all depends on how much of the underlying APIs are exposed to the browser. Too much exposed and Safari becomes as security negligent as IE and Windows and people will again complain on having to download this and that security patch for the respective holes.

 

[Dieter Bohn]

From the WMExperts article:


I take total offense at this. There are a whole lot more people doing some element of web development than there are doing mobile device development. The fact that the the iPhone just took the focus away from the native app side of things and thrust it on the web app sides of things means that if new developers want to jump in, the barrier to entry is lowered.

Those of you basing what is and is not a smartphone on the ability to develop therefore need to modify your definition (2.0 if you will) to include web apps. The iPhone might not change the flow completly, but because it will trumpet mobile web apps, the consumers that use the iPhone just might end up wanting basic web app-like services for their device. From there, the browser is the OS to develop on, and native apps become background concerns.

Lastly, this is an excellent move for carriers. Mobile apps that rely on teh browser mean a data connection, meaning more unlimited plans that need to be had. Good for them, good for Apple since the platform is essentially closed but open in one area.

I certainly didn't mean to offend! If Apple would:

1) provide some sort of framework where you could run these webapps locally and
2) provide a way to have some sort of "browser window but not safari" available to developers (i.e. so you could have a safari webapp open the background)

...that would go a long way towards helping. I *still* think it's not enough, though.

btw: I'm a bit of a WM Evangelist though much of it is honest as I really have drank the kool aid. I like to think I maintain a bit of objectivity. Mike's initial thoughts are also worth a read over at phone different.

Mike and I actually had a long, very drawn out IM exchange yesterday afternoon and it's likely that'll result in an article similar to the one that Ducker and I did with the iPhone way back.

 

[Iceman6]

I think it is hilarious that Apple is proposing a web app solution for the iPhone, with only EDGE and WiFi for connecting client and server. IMO web apps will only work when Wifi is available.

 

[newtonjack]

So was Colligan right after all

when he said this about the iPhone:

The move comes just weeks after Palm's CEO politely called Apple's new iPhone "a highly developed media player, which happens to include a phone." Judging by the new hire, the remark came from a bit of jealousy - we'll see whether the magic of Mercer can help Palm feel a little better, though. It's been a while since Palm has produced anything notable - or at all, in fact. The PDA maker hasn't updated that part of its business since fall of 2005, over a year ago.


http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/03/10/Palm_hires_iPod_designer/

 

[Antoine of MMM#IM]

I certainly didn't mean to offend!

Sorry, it was an inital reaction at the statement "real developers." The OS apps versus web apps argument is one where neither side ever looks realistically at the other, and its largely an older MS-hewn view.

1) provide some sort of framework where you could run these webapps locally and
2) provide a way to have some sort of "browser window but not safari" available to developers (i.e. so you could have a safari webapp open the background)

...that would go a long way towards helping. I *still* think it's not enough, though.

As soon as Safari 3 is gold, I think we'd have a better idea of what could work. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Adobe AIR (Apollo) is a part of this. Though AIR is a runtime and doesn't need a browser to function.

Mike and I actually had a long, very drawn out IM exchange yesterday afternoon and it's likely that'll result in an article similar to the one that Ducker and I did with the iPhone way back.

Looking forward to this. I liked that previous article format.

I think it is hilarious that Apple is proposing a web app solution for the iPhone, with only EDGE and WiFi for connecting client and server. IMO web apps will only work when Wifi is available.

Web apps will work no matter what kind of internet connection is available. If it is written with EDGE users in mind, then it will work just fine. Many developers are lazy and write unoptimized code, and so wifi might be the best bet for best performance, but will not be only recourse.

(Man I like this topic)

 

[MacUser]

Web apps will work no matter what kind of internet connection is available. If it is written with EDGE users in mind, then it will work just fine. Many developers are lazy and write unoptimized code, and so wifi might be the best bet for best performance, but will not be only recourse.

So, let's say you load a web app, leave a WiFi area and have no EDGE connectivity, will the app still work? Will it only work until you quit Safari? Any additional clarification how these web apps truly work/function?

TY

 

[Pearl_Diva]

:evil: For Archie

http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=3741436&postcount=38

Antoine, whats good for the carriers is bad for the consumers. Why should one be happy to depend on network access to read their Bible on the IPhone? You better not think of driving through the desert using Google maps, do you. And no third party apps for you if you dont buy a data plan..

This sucks (for Archie of course :evil: )

Surur

So you're unable to read Ebooks on the iPhone, with that huge screen??? Another strike if true.

 

[archie]

As somebody that has done some web development, my opinion is that ajax stinks, nobody uses it. Do not expect 3rd party apps that are like what you see on the palm os. I have no idea what apple is thinking.

What exactly do you use? XML, XHTML, CSS and JavaScript are the most used technologies on the web. Show me a web page that DOESN'T use these.

This announcement that Apple made earlier this week about using these to develop on Safari has nothing to do with the iPhone by the way. They are simply leveraging the iPhone's guaranteed success to gain marketshare in the browser arena. I don't expect everyone to see this I guess but you will see why in a few more months. Safari will wield a great amount of power.

 

[surur]

What exactly do you use? XML, XHTML, CSS and JavaScript are the most used technologies on the web. Show me a web page that DOESN'T use these.

This announcement that Apple made earlier this week about using these to develop on Safari has nothing to do with the iPhone by the way. They are simply leveraging the iPhone's guaranteed success to gain marketshare in the browser arena. I don't expect everyone to see this I guess but you will see why in a few more months. Safari will wield a great amount of power.

A great amount of power to compromise our windows boxes I guess. It occurs to me the IPhone is going to be even more vulnerable to exploits than if they used native code, due to all the holes in Safari.

Surur