1. surur's Avatar
    The training manual for IPhone help desk operators has been leaked, and it reveals a variety of deficiencies in the device compared to most high-end phones, things Apple would rather have kept secret until you have already locked yourself into a 2 year contract.

    The manual indicates there is no Instant Messaging client, no Multimedia messaging, no built-in GPS (a rumour going around a few weeks ago), and the fanboys are mad.

    funny,
    i was all set to buy the iphone. i even have one set aside at an at&t store but unless apple truly impresses me at launch i may have to cancel. yea! i can browse the internet while chatting with a mate. very useful indeed. oh but wait, i can't send a pic or vid of my daughter doing something super funny because… why? who knows? i am getting kind of sick of the Apple, what we don't tell you is good for you. as is with any popular trend i think the novelty of apple secrecy may be wearing off. seriously. if you want me to spend $600 on a f'ing phone you better give me all the bullets i can relay to the wifey on why that money needs to be expensed. i am not rich and not poor but a huge apple fan. to tell you the truth these specs do not impress me at all. and if they wait until launch to expose some (not earth shattering) but current features that most high end phones have, that are lacking from this leaked skill set, i will be more than unimpressed but insulted. they have a huge hurdle to overcome from just this manual. you need to make it useful not just easier. and if this document is any indication Apple is betting on their marketing more than their engineering.
    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=312037

    It seems like every over-hyped device, the truth is always much less than the fictions fans spin for themselves.

    Surur
    06-09-2007 05:48 AM
  2. fgkay's Avatar
    ...there is no Instant Messaging client, no Multimedia messaging, no built-in GPS ...
    Sounds like the Treo 700wx
    06-09-2007 06:55 AM
  3. surur's Avatar
    Sounds like the Treo 700wx
    Ha, too true. The difference is a) expectations are lower, and b) you can at least add an IM app if you wanted to, whereas the IPhone you can add an IM app if Apple wants you to.

    Surur
    06-09-2007 06:57 AM
  4. marcol's Avatar
    Given the exposure the iPhone has had so far, and will certainly have over the next few weeks, if you buy it and it doesn't have a feature you were expecting, I'd say that frankly you have only yourself to blame.
    06-09-2007 07:28 AM
  5. surur's Avatar
    Given the exposure the iPhone has had so far, and will certainly have over the next few weeks, if you buy it and it doesn't have a feature you were expecting, I'd say that frankly you have only yourself to blame.
    I disagree. Apple has done as much as possible to keep details on this device secret. Archie thinks it has a Zirconium shell for example. Those 3 million people who are already sitting in queues outside of AT&T stores have no idea whats going on, except that the phone is 5 years ahead of everyone else. MMS became pass then obviously.

    Surur
    06-09-2007 07:40 AM
  6. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Not everyone gets on these boards though, Marcol. The ads look cool, people will go buy one.

    No IM and no MMS for a $500 or more phone? Even the lowly BB has capability for that!
    06-09-2007 07:41 AM
  7. marcol's Avatar
    Not everyone gets on these boards though, Marcol. The ads look cool, people will go buy one.
    Yeah, I guess you're probably right although it's a bit depressing to believe it. I'd still say they only have themselves to blame though.
    06-09-2007 07:50 AM
  8. Christinac130's Avatar
    I agree. Not everyone frequents techie forums as often as we do. Some people are going to run out and buy the iPhone assuming such a technologically advanced device would have the basic features a "dumb phone" would have...
    06-09-2007 07:50 AM
  9. marcol's Avatar
    I disagree. Apple has done as much as possible to keep details on this device secret.
    Some aspects of it yes, but that's not really true of the three things you mention in the first post of this thread. They've never suggested (a far as I'm aware) that there was GPS, it's obvious from the apple.com/iphone site that there's no IM client and the demo of SMS gives no indication of MMS.
    06-09-2007 07:56 AM
  10. marcol's Avatar
    Some people are going to run out and buy the iPhone assuming such a technologically advanced device would have the basic features a "dumb phone" would have...
    OK! I'll give you that for MMS but not IM and GPS (which aren't basic features of "dumb phones"). Leaving out MMS is rather odd. I suppose they think email will substitute (which isn't quite true).
    06-09-2007 08:01 AM
  11. surur's Avatar
    Many dumb phones have GPS now, and having the "most advanced Google maps ever made" will certainly give people the impression that they have too.

    A further issue is that they are advertising being able to talk to some-one and browse the internet at the same time, but only in a footnote mention that this is only with a wifi connection. This is unlike devices such as the Treo 750 where you can do this without wifi.

    In the end, when some fanboy has a geek-off with a Cingular 8525 owner they are going to come of pretty badly, despite having a phone "5 years ahead of everyone else".

    Surur
    06-09-2007 08:23 AM
  12. marcol's Avatar
    In the end, when some fanboy has a geek-off with a Cingular 8525 owner they are going to come of pretty badly, despite having a phone "5 years ahead of everyone else".
    As we've discussed before, I had an HTC TyTN variant (though not an 8525) and it was really very poor. Sure on paper it looked great, and had tons of features, but the hardware was cheap and nasty and some of it, particularly the Wifi, keyboard and 5-way, functioned so badly that I'd describe them as unfit for purpose. I don't know what happens at a geek-off but I imagine in any sensible comparison that quality as well as quantity of features is a consideration. With that in mind, if anything like my TyTN, the 8525 is a sure-fire loser. One advantage to the TyTN though: you can always spot the owner at a geek-off - he's the one who has to stand closest to the Wifi router

    PS Sorry. You just had to pick the one phone I've owned that has been truly awful!
    06-09-2007 08:51 AM
  13. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Yeah, I guess you're probably right although it's a bit depressing to believe it. I'd still say they only have themselves to blame though.
    Well a smart buyer should ask questions about features in the store if they're spending that much, even if they didn't research online. But then sometimes you get ***** salespeople who say anything to make a sale. That's why I hope they have these on display first, so people can test them. ATT sometimes gets sneaky, no display but people still buy because they hear the phone is out. They did that for a while with some smartphones.

    You sometimes have the "eager to spend money, no questions asked" buyers, they don't care as long as it's cool. Those people are the ones who probably shouldn't complain. But honestly, those people are few in the US cell market. Most want cool but cheaper, LOL! But the iPhone might change that. However, people won't be happy to learn they payed $500 for a less equipped phone.
    06-09-2007 08:51 AM
  14. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    As we've discussed before, I had an HTC TyTN variant (though not an 8525) and it was really very poor. Sure on paper it looked great, and had tons of features, but the hardware was cheap and nasty and some of it, particularly the Wifi, keyboard and 5-way, functioned so badly that I'd describe them as unfit for purpose. I don't know what happens at a geek-off but I imagine in any sensible comparison that quality as well as quantity of features is a consideration. With that in mind, if anything like my TyTN, the 8525 is a sure-fire loser. One advantage to the TyTN though: you can always spot the owner at a geek-off - he's the one who has to stand closest to the Wifi router

    PS Sorry. You just had to pick the one phone I've owned that has been truly awful!
    The 8525 seems sturdy enough. It seems ATT might have demanded HTC tweak it. The sliding mechanism is a concern though.
    06-09-2007 08:59 AM
  15. surur's Avatar
    As we've discussed before, I had an HTC TyTN variant (though not an 8525) and it was really very poor. Sure on paper it looked great, and had tons of features, but the hardware was cheap and nasty and some of it, particularly the Wifi, keyboard and 5-way, functioned so badly that I'd describe them as unfit for purpose. I don't know what happens at a geek-off but I imagine in any sensible comparison that quality as well as quantity of features is a consideration. With that in mind, if anything like my TyTN, the 8525 is a sure-fire loser. One advantage to the TyTN though: you can always spot the owner at a geek-off - he's the one who has to stand closest to the Wifi router

    PS Sorry. You just had to pick the one phone I've owned that has been truly awful!
    Hardware quality is an intangible, and never features very high in a geek-off

    A new IPhone owner will go over to the guy with the last latest greatest phone, and the main refrain will be "but can it do this." The IPhone will sadly run out of cool features pretty fast, especially compared to a device like the HTC Kaiser or Nokia N95.

    The loser of a geek-off invariable slinks back to his cubicle with his tail in-between his legs. I suggest IPhone owners prepare for this eventuality by keeping a picture of Steve Jobs close at hand :evil:

    Surur
    06-09-2007 09:04 AM
  16. marcol's Avatar
    The loser of a geek-off invariable slinks back to his cubicle with his tail in-between his legs. I suggest IPhone owners prepare for this eventuality by keeping a picture of Steve Jobs close at hand :evil:
    Just keep multiple pics on your iPhone. Enjoy them in 480 x 320 glory, flip between them with a flick of the finger, and use the reverse pinch muliti-touch thing to expand the bits if Steve you really like All things you can't do of course on your Kaiser or N95.
    06-09-2007 09:18 AM
  17. mikec#IM's Avatar
    No Instant Messaging equals no sale.

    I think this either a big oversight, or just the first $40 app that Apple will sell.

    Oh well...get ready for the thud.
    06-09-2007 10:08 AM
  18. scottymomo's Avatar
    Quote:
    funny,
    i was all set to buy the iphone. i even have one set aside at an at&t store but unless apple truly impresses me at launch i may have to cancel. yea! i can browse the internet while chatting with a mate. very useful indeed.
    How are they going to do that? Not supported with EDGE...
    06-09-2007 10:38 AM
  19. archie's Avatar
    The training manual for IPhone help desk operators has been leaked, and it reveals a variety of deficiencies in the device compared to most high-end phones, things Apple would rather have kept secret until you have already locked yourself into a 2 year contract.

    The manual indicates there is no Instant Messaging client, no Multimedia messaging, no built-in GPS (a rumour going around a few weeks ago), and the fanboys are mad.


    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=312037

    It seems like every over-hyped device, the truth is always much less than the fictions fans spin for themselves.

    Surur
    Macrumors is a forum full of 15 year olds waiting to spend their dads money.



    Steve said from day one there was no GPS on the iPhone (though triangulation was something that was a possibility) and we also new that the only messaging client to be initially bundled with the phone was SMS texting.

    This is the truth.

    To say you have been bamboozle is unbelievable, especially since you yourself do not intend on getting one.

    Oh, by the way. There are hundreds of stores for people to try the phone before they buy so Apple is not trying to trick anyone into buying the iPhone. In fact; as I have said before, they are underpromising and over-delivering as should be evidenced by their upgrading and feature adding procedures throughout the life of the product.

    Oh... and for the record, YES, I do think Apple has used Zirconia in the iPhone body. Why is this an issue?
    06-09-2007 10:44 AM
  20. surur's Avatar
    Only by having a simultaneous wifi connection. Thats in small print of course.

    Surur
    06-09-2007 10:44 AM
  21. surur's Avatar
    Macrumors is a forum full of 15 year olds waiting to spend their dads money.

    Steve said from day one there was no GPS on the iPhone (though triangulation was something that was a possibility) and we also new that the only messaging client to be initially bundled with the phone was SMS texting.

    This is the truth.

    To say you have been bamboozle is unbelievable, especially since you yourself do not intend on getting one.

    Oh, by the way. There are hundreds of stores for people to try the phone before they buy so Apple is not trying to trick anyone into buying the iPhone. In fact; as I have said before, they are underpromising and over-delivering as should be evidenced by their upgrading and feature adding procedures throughout the life of the product.
    Archie, its no me who's bamboozled. Its your fellow i-fanboys.

    Why dont you go and calm them down by telling them to lower their expectations. I'm sure that will go down well...

    Lets see...

    "Dont worry about MMS. All we need is the spirit of Jobs..."

    Oh... and for the record, YES, I do think Apple has used Zirconia in the iPhone body. Why is this an issue?
    It shows the extent of your unrealistic expectations. Has it occurred to you that plastic is also radio-lucent?

    Surur
    06-09-2007 10:48 AM
  22. treobk214's Avatar
    Look folks, its the palm fanboys vs the iphone fanboys!!! fanboys, fanboys, fanboys. Everything's gotta have fanboys!
    06-09-2007 02:32 PM
  23. Malatesta's Avatar
    Whatever the expectations are/were for people, the fact is had the iPhone come with IM built in (iChat) and had GPS to use with that sweet Google Maps, it would have been very nice and an added selling point to differentiate themselves from the competition.

    Everyone here can rationalize why they don't have those features, how they "don't really need them" or "maybe later" but no one is going to turn down those features had they included them.

    I mean, come on--you don't think GPS would have been awesome on here? No one is disappointed?
    06-09-2007 03:04 PM
  24. backbeat's Avatar
    Look folks, its the palm fanboys vs the iphone fanboys!!! fanboys, fanboys, fanboys. Everything's gotta have fanboys!
    The thing is ... they both hit like girls.
    06-09-2007 03:04 PM
  25. treobk214's Avatar
    lol.
    06-09-2007 03:11 PM
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