1. marcol's Avatar
    This device is not for power users. They will be selling it on the high street in phone stores to normal people who have no idea what 3G is, and only want a cool looking phone. Its for information retrieval and multimedia, not data input.
    I sort of agree except that most phone users need to input data, if only to write text messages. One point deduction on the cool scale for having to use a stylus for SMS?

    EDIT. Actually, forget that. I guess you could use T9 on the vitual 12-key keypad for SMS. Not great, but add the point back on
    06-06-2007 11:25 AM
  2. surur's Avatar
    I can definitely see them using this screen type on their smartphone devices (WM Standard) as an alternative to the JOGGR and scroll wheel etc.

    Surur
    06-06-2007 11:51 AM
  3. CGK#IM's Avatar
    I can definitely see them using this screen type on their smartphone devices (WM Standard) as an alternative to the JOGGR and scroll wheel etc.

    Surur

    Yeah - give it a couple of years and I can see this becoming pretty standard.
    06-06-2007 11:54 AM
  4. Iceman6's Avatar
    The average consumer will see this phone as a cheap knock-off, not a competitive phone. It has the usual 2.8" QVGA screen, which means fewer pixels to form the icons for your fat fingers. It is a tri-band phone designed for Europe and Asia. It only has a 200 MHz CPU fer chryssakes. This is a Jam with a different Today screen and case.

    As for usability, the multitouch "UI" is not integrated with WM6. This means you'll be pulling out your stylus in order to use the tiny WM6 pop-up keyboard. I predict that the people who buy this thing will end up throwing it against the wall.
    06-06-2007 12:12 PM
  5. tirk's Avatar
    Yep, you fall all the way back to stylus input. Some third party software might help, e.g. SPB fullscreen keyboard, but thats obviously not ideal.

    This device is not for power users. They will be selling it on the high street in phone stores to normal people who have no idea what 3G is, and only want a cool looking phone. Its for information retrieval and multimedia, not data input.
    So you're saying I'd need to get a Foleo too?

    :evil: DARFC!
    06-06-2007 01:35 PM
  6. surur's Avatar
    So you're saying I'd need to get a Foleo too?

    :evil: DARFC!
    Hahahaha

    Surur
    06-06-2007 02:11 PM
  7. archie's Avatar
    Yes Archie, no-one said this is an IPhone, just HTC's response to the IPhone. Of course it will have numerous advantageous over the IPhone, one of them being that it will be subsidized by the carriers, and probably be free on a contract.
    Do you really expect me to believe the carrier will willingly hand over a $610 (+tax) phone to all of its customers free of charge?

    OK... whatever.

    BTW, unlike the Iphone commercials these vids actually demonstrate one-handed usage.
    Oh, then it must not be possible with the iPhone since they didn't show it on the commercial. Your probably right, I forgot about that large protrusion on the iPhone that doesn't allow for anybody's thumb to move around the screen like you can with HTC's Touch... or whatever it's called.

    As usual you made many mistakes in your post. You are often so wrong, wrong, wrong. Tell me if you want me to correct you point by point.

    Surur
    Ummm... OK, I'll bite. Correct me.
    06-06-2007 04:29 PM
  8. archie's Avatar
    Ive been listening to some interviews on the device, and it appears they have put in a lot more thought than first appears. Apparently when touched by finger the OK area is enlarged, so even an inaccurate stab with a finger will close an app.
    That can't be good. Unless your a fanboy.:evil:

    No evidence of THAT though is there!?
    06-06-2007 04:34 PM
  9. surur's Avatar
    Ummm... OK, I'll bite. Correct me.
    Famous last words.

    $610 It costs too much!

    Do you really expect me to believe the carrier will willingly hand over a $610 (+tax) phone to all of its customers free of charge?

    OK... whatever.
    Orange sells the HTC Vox as the SPV E650 for free on a normal contract, The same phone at Expansys is 315, thats $625. Orange is a launch partner for the HTC Touch.

    http://shop.orange.co.uk/shop/show/h...il/pay_monthly
    http://www.expansys.com/htc-s710-uk-qwerty-145682/

    The battery is not user-replaceable!

    Why would you think this? Only Apple in recent times has been so stupid.

    You can't use it with only one hand!
    Well, all the videos demonstrate you are patently wrong. In addition, most people say it actually works better with one hand than two, being designed to be used with a swipe of the thumb.

    the iPhone's lower price tag
    You only need to pay those prices if you want it unlocked. It should be free or close to free on contract. Does the IPhone even have that option without paying an extra $1000 service fees?

    the iPhone's ability to use AT&T's "Fine EDGE" for data
    This is hilarious You do know Fine EDGE is about back-end changes, and all EDGE devices, including this device, will benefit.

    the iPhone's thinner body.
    The Touch is of smaller volume than the IPhone, which makes the whole device accessible to only one hand. The IPhone is clearly a two-handed device.


    Archie, Archie, Archie... So wrong so often. I am nearly embarrassed for you...

    Surur
    06-06-2007 05:18 PM
  10. archie's Avatar
    Since you screwed it up by misquoting me and leaving out points, I have taken the initiative to quote myself.

    $610 It costs too much!
    You can get an iPhone for $499

    Your link is to a different phone. I did a search on Expansys and it didn't return anything. Good try though. You have done that twice in the past in hopes that somebody would blindly believe you I guess.

    Camera only has 2 megapickels!
    I just checked again, still 2 megapickels

    The battery is not user-replaceable!
    If you are fine with disassembling your phone to switch batteries while driving down the road, that's fine with me. Most would consider "user-replaceable" an easily swappable battery. Besides, I appreciate Apple's decision to forego the user-replacable option in favor of engineering a larger capacity battery instead.

    It is only GPRS/EDGE!
    Still only GPRS/EDGE, even in Europe.

    It doesn't have a keyboard with physical buttons!
    Apple's keyboard is way better.

    The screen is too small!
    Apples screen is physically larger and also has twice the number of pixels

    Only has 5 hours of talk time!
    How much talk time does the Touch REALLY have. I suspect the iPhone wins here too.

    You can't use it with only one hand!
    I was being facetious. You insistently say that you CANNOT use the iPhone with one hand but other phones like this HTC Touch CAN be used with one hand. So what gives? Where is the difference? Don't be a hypocrite. You have to explain to me why it is not possible with the iPhone.
    06-06-2007 06:17 PM
  11. surur's Avatar
    Since you screwed it up by misquoting me and leaving out points, I have taken the initiative to quote myself.

    You can get an iPhone for $1700.

    Your link is to a different phone. I did a search on Expansys and it didn't return anything. Good try though. You have done that twice in the past in hopes that somebody would blindly believe you I guess.
    Archie, I know you can be a bit slow, so I shall try and explain again.

    The phone is not out on the carriers yet - understand?

    Orange sells other HTC products - understand?

    They sell smartphones of equivalent cost for free - understand?

    This means they will also sell the HTC Touch for free also - understand?

    Tell me if there is any step you can not follow, and I will try and break it down again.

    Re your other points - I did not say everything you said is wrong, only that you made many many mistakes, which I corrected. Its only in 1 in 3 of your posts that you dont say a single thing which is right. Keep up the good work.

    Surur
    06-06-2007 06:26 PM
  12. surur's Avatar
    BTW Archie, I thought you might find this amusing, to kit out my free phone.


    http://www.onlinememory.co.uk/sandis...ash-p-745.html

    I understand 8GB is on the way soon too...
    http://www.engadget.com/2007/05/16/s...-microsd-card/

    Surur
    06-06-2007 06:52 PM
  13. marcol's Avatar
    I can definitely see them using this screen type on their smartphone devices (WM Standard) as an alternative to the JOGGR and scroll wheel etc.
    But that would require the next gen OS wouldn't it? Hopefully Microsoft are already on the case and will provide an fully integrated and complete solution with the next release, and this partial solution on the HTC device won't be needed anymore.
    06-07-2007 08:42 AM
  14. surur's Avatar
    But that would require the next gen OS wouldn't it? Hopefully Microsoft are already on the case and will provide an fully integrated and complete solution with the next release, and this partial solution on the HTC device won't be needed anymore.
    I don't believe necessarily so, as long as the actions are confined to scrolling. It would integrate in the same way as a scroll wheel, which should not need new code.

    Surur
    06-07-2007 08:48 AM
  15. marcol's Avatar
    I don't believe necessarily so, as long as the actions are confined to scrolling. It would integrate in the same way as a scroll wheel, which should not need new code.
    Ah, I see your point now, although to be honest I have doubts that it would be cost effective to add a touchscreen just for scrolling.
    06-07-2007 09:12 AM
  16. marcol's Avatar
    Also, that would add a fourth usage model for WM phones:

    WM Professional
    WM Professional plus TouchFLO
    WM Standard
    WM Standard plus touchscreen scrolling

    It's too many!
    06-07-2007 09:30 AM
  17. surur's Avatar
    I think of it more as a two dimensional JOGGR, which can scroll up and down, and also side to side.

    Alternatively they could add a JOGGR to the edges of the screen, on the top and to the side, to the same effect. I think it would enhance the usage model, but I see your point regarding raising expectations and causing confusion.

    Remember though that touch is rapidly becoming a selling point to consumers, so it could be a nice gimmick to raise sales.

    Surur
    06-07-2007 10:38 AM
  18. archie's Avatar
    Remember though that touch is rapidly becoming a selling point to consumers, so it could be a nice gimmick to raise sales.

    Surur
    For other companies, YES, it is a gimmick.

    For Apple... its incorporated to make it easy to use and intuitive. A SUCCESFUL and APPROPRIATE implementation. May not be evident to many now (who am I kidding, this is TreoCentral... DEFINiTELY NOT evident), but it will be given time and exposure.
    06-07-2007 07:28 PM
  19. Malatesta's Avatar
    For other companies, YES, it is a gimmick.

    For Apple... its incorporated to make it easy to use and intuitive. A SUCCESFUL and APPROPRIATE implementation. May not be evident to many now (who am I kidding, this is TreoCentral... DEFINiTELY NOT evident), but it will be given time and exposure.
    Yeah, sounds real evident....
    06-08-2007 02:58 AM
  20. Kupe#WP's Avatar
    Yeah, sounds real evident....
    we did consult a trusted and well connected source who, as it turns out, has heard the very same thing from multiple iPhone users, and who further noted that an accessory keyboard to go with the device may become necessary if the touchscreen keyboard doesn't cut the mustard.
    Oh boy - a keyboard attachment - how cool would THAT look! Maybe they'll add an external 3G adapter too.
    06-08-2007 05:29 AM
  21. marcol's Avatar
    Oh boy - a keyboard attachment - how cool would THAT look!
    Haven't you heard? They're all the rage:

    http://www.palm.com/us/products/mobilecompanion/foleo/
    06-08-2007 05:47 AM
  22. backbeat's Avatar
    Yeah, sounds real evident....
    If anyone should know about colossal keyboard failures, it's Dvorak!

    06-08-2007 09:06 AM
  23. archie's Avatar
    06-20-2007 09:14 PM
  24. Kenundrum's Avatar
    2 years ago i broke my dominant (left) hand and shredded muscle and tendons... i was unable to write for about 2 or 3 months and i could type with only one hand and maybe finger pecking on the other one...a Dvorak keyboard layout really helped me out after i spent the week or two getting used to it... don't knock it until you try it...
    Dvorak keeps all the most commonly used keys near each other in an effort to speed up typing and reduce finger travel- qwerty is designed to increase finger travel and reduce speed... however on second thought... is a mainstream/commercial failure... but like so many other things, people find uses for it.
    Thankfully i've gotten past the muscle atrophy and i'm now able to type at ~100 words per minute- not something you could do on a virtual softkey board...

    However- none of us can tell what the keyboard would be like until we handle it ourselves... i've used full screen keyboard and it was good, but since you could only use one key at a time it was a little slow going... maybe multi-touch is what is needed as the next step for onscreen keyboards...
    for me... you need the tactile feedback... i'm beginning to like the feedback you get when surfing the web on a wii- it vibrates as you go to buttons or over links or when you type... i've always wanted a hack to make the device vibrate just a bit when you touch the screen or something to give you the feedback you want to know you're doing it... oh well

    back on topic- as far as a response to the iphone... i think the greatest irony is that all of us using relatively open standards phones will be pointing and laughing at iphones because with software updates and hacks, we can make our phone behave like iphones and have so much more functionality... i've got the slide to unlock thingy working and the icontact finger flicking contact manager is fun, if not yet totally useful in an integration sense...
    06-20-2007 09:37 PM
  25. Hellenek's Avatar
    This is really tiring. Let it go already.

    It's like getting a PC to emulate a Mac using loads of software and laughing at those who actually have a Mac. If you like the iphone features enough - get the real thing with the right 'engine' running the whole show.

    Do iPhone users get the last laugh when your nearly-iPhone apps conflict with each other and your almost-iPhone keeps crashing?
    06-22-2007 10:43 AM
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