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  1. surur's Avatar
    I'm looking now. They do not have too many patents, and the only relevant one seems to be some kind of dual measuring resistive screen. Of course they could have licensed some-one else's patent. Of interest is that AOL seems to own a patent on a self-correcting virtual keyboard like the Iphone has.

    Surur
    06-13-2007 10:43 AM
  2. surur's Avatar
    That's what apple is banking on, and I will not judge until I use it, but I am a little pessimistic about it. "Multi-touch" also means TWO HANDS, which I'm sure some people won't mind but I know some will. Even at the keynote, Jobs was holding the device with one hand and interacting w/the phone with the other. I like one-handed use myself (as do most treo users), so we'll see how conducive that is on the iPhone.
    Thats what's nice about the HTC Touch. They seemed to have designed the device to be used with the thumb of the hand holding it. Pretty sensible.


    Surur
    06-13-2007 10:45 AM
  3. whmurray's Avatar
    That's what apple is banking on, and I will not judge until I use it, but I am a little pessimistic about it. "Multi-touch" also means TWO HANDS, which I'm sure some people won't mind but I know some will. Even at the keynote, Jobs was holding the device with one hand and interacting w/the phone with the other. I like one-handed use myself (as do most treo users), so we'll see how conducive that is on the iPhone.
    Good point. While I do use the Treo in one-hand mode, there are many operations that require two hands, for example, browsing. I think that I often switch from one mode to the other without noticing.
    06-13-2007 10:45 AM
  4. marcol's Avatar
    I think that the capacitive screen and "multi-touch" are closely related
    Certainly the only multi-touch I've used is the (capacitive) touchpad on my MacBook: drag two fingers to scroll, tap two fingers to 'right click' etc.
    06-13-2007 10:46 AM
  5. marcol's Avatar
    Thats what's nice about the HTC Touch. They seemed to have designed the device to be used with the thumb of the hand holding it. Pretty sensible.
    While that's true and I agree it's sensible, TouchFLO has a more limited set of functions and I think most (all?) of those could probably be done one-handed on the iPhone (I'd certainly guess that launching apps and scrolling would be doable one handed).
    06-13-2007 10:57 AM
  6. surur's Avatar
    While that's true and I agree it's sensible, TouchFLO has a more limited set of functions and I think most (all?) of those could probably be done one-handed on the iPhone (I'd certainly guess that launching apps and scrolling would be doable one handed).
    I think the Iphone is actually too large to be used solely with one hand, and still have a secure grip on the device. Also small thumbs would not be able to reach all the way across the screen, and Iphone icons are also pretty small.

    Surur
    06-13-2007 11:00 AM
  7. mdavis's Avatar
    I think the debate was not over whether touch controls are real but whether they are touch controls or not. I'll bet yours are touch controls. If you really shook it hard, is there any danger they would fall off? That would be one sign they are real and not virutal.
    06-13-2007 11:59 AM
  8. whmurray's Avatar
    I think the debate was not over whether touch controls are real but whether they are touch controls or not. I'll bet yours are touch controls. If you really shook it hard, is there any danger they would fall off? That would be one sign they are real and not virutal.
    You've got your teeth in it and you cannot let go, can you?
    06-13-2007 12:24 PM
  9. marcol's Avatar
    I think the Iphone is actually too large to be used solely with one hand, and still have a secure grip on the device. Also small thumbs would not be able to reach all the way across the screen, and Iphone icons are also pretty small.
    The iPhone and Touch are actually quite similar sizes:

    iPhone: 115 x 61 x 11.6 mm, 81.4 cm3

    Touch: 99.9 x 58 x 13.9 mm, 80.5 cm3

    You may be right about small hands but I'm guessing I'd have no problems reaching any part with the thumb of the hand I'd hold it with. I can reach any part of my E61 and it's bigger in all dimensions. I think tapping the main app icons should be fine too, but as with most things iPhone it's a matter of waiting and seeing before you can be sure. That said, I do suspect that many people would use it two-handed much of the time and it might well feel more natural that way.
    06-13-2007 12:44 PM
  10. marcol's Avatar
    I think the debate was not over whether touch controls are real but whether they are touch controls or not.
    I think they are
    06-13-2007 12:47 PM
  11. surur's Avatar
    The iPhone and Touch are actually quite similar sizes:

    iPhone: 115 x 61 x 11.6 mm, 81.4 cm3

    Touch: 99.9 x 58 x 13.9 mm, 80.5 cm3

    You may be right about small hands but I'm guessing I'd have no problems reaching any part with the thumb of the hand I'd hold it with. I can reach any part of my E61 and it's bigger in all dimensions. I think tapping the main app icons should be fine too, but as with most things iPhone it's a matter of waiting and seeing before you can be sure. That said, I do suspect that many people would use it two-handed much of the time and it might well feel more natural that way.
    When it comes to that size small differences look quite dramatic. Notice despite being smaller size the icons are actually larger, and require less precision to activate.


    Surur
    06-13-2007 01:30 PM
  12. Certs's Avatar
    As far as size goes, I'm willing to sacrifice some if it means a larger, higher res screen. But I can't speak for everyone
    06-13-2007 01:35 PM
  13. marcol's Avatar
    When it comes to that size small differences look quite dramatic.
    That's true, but notice that the max distance your thumb has to reach isn't really very different. Also, of course, your picture doesn't show that the Touch is 17% thicker, which is why the iPhone, despite its larger footprint, is only 1% or so larger in volume terms. I'd say the iPhone has the nod here. Who wants thickness when you can have a big screen instead?
    06-13-2007 01:52 PM
  14. surur's Avatar
    That's true, but notice that the max distance your thumb has to reach isn't really very different. Also, of course, your picture doesn't show that the Touch is 17% thicker, which is why the iPhone, despite its larger footprint, is only 1% or so larger in volume terms. I'd say the iPhone has the nod here. Who wants thickness when you can have a big screen instead?
    In terms of usability (specifically thumb reach) the small thickness difference does not make much difference.


    Its not that thick either. The Razr is actually thicker.



    Surur
    06-13-2007 02:01 PM
  15. whmurray's Avatar
    As far as size goes, I'm willing to sacrifice some if it means a larger, higher res screen. But I can't speak for everyone
    I am too. I hope HTC gets a lot of battery life for that ugly (b&w?) screen.
    06-13-2007 02:32 PM
  16. surur's Avatar
    I am too. I hope HTC gets a lot of battery life for that ugly (b&W?) screen.
    Ouch! Have you seen the LG Prada screens? Black is always in fashion

    Of course, so is Fisher Price...

    Surur
    06-13-2007 02:34 PM
  17. JackisBack#IM's Avatar
    So is it really a treo killer or pretender?
    06-17-2007 09:52 AM
  18. oalvarez's Avatar
    less than two weeks away, we'll know soooooooooooooooooooooon!
    06-17-2007 10:59 AM
  19. surur's Avatar
    So is it really a treo killer or pretender?
    Feature-wise its clearly not a Treo killer, but the question is if it will cost Palm as much market share as to kill the company.

    Surur
    06-17-2007 11:12 AM
  20. mikec#IM's Avatar
    The iPhone will likely not steal away Treo users.

    But it will entice five camps:

    1.) Apple Fanboys/girls.

    2.) People with money to burn.

    3.) People who want the latest gadget.

    4.) People who might consider a Treo, but are more drawn to the iPhone.

    5.) People looking for a converged iPod/phone.

    I think we need to wait a year and see where things are.

    But I will say, the hype and excitement is fun.
    06-17-2007 11:50 AM
  21. bruckwine's Avatar
    the iphone is Angelina Jolie.....the treo is Helen Hunt....are you looking for a one night stand or a long term relationship with your phone??????
    Classic but I'd say iPhone = Beyonce (young and hot but not ready for a long temr thing) while treo = Halle Berry (older also hot but not fresh and ready to have a baby or two)??

    iPhone will be the new razr in terms of sales etc...but two difft types of phones in 2 difft markets. Most ppl in the business world (or ppl who like to be organised) will have a smartphone and then maybe (if they can afford it and all) a regular phone (iPhone or some competitor from Sony/Motorola)...have no fear the treo is going nowhere (unless BB comes out with a real killer)
    06-17-2007 12:47 PM
  22. bruckwine's Avatar
    Btw both the HTC touch and the iPhone will def suck for one-handed usage I reckon! I rarely even use my treo touchscreen....
    06-17-2007 12:49 PM
  23. surur's Avatar
    Btw both the HTC touch and the iPhone will def suck for one-handed usage I reckon! I rarely even use my treo touchscreen....
    For reading info (vs inputting stuff) the HTC Touch should work pretty well one-handed. I just bought one, so I shall find out soon enough.

    Surur
    06-17-2007 12:59 PM
  24. braj's Avatar
    The reviews of the Touch I've seen say the new touch features are limited to the launcher, so I'm thinking you'll have the same experience otherwise that you have with any WM device. I haven't used WM so I don't know if that is good or bad.

    That said it is a nice little device but doing real work on it may be limited with not 'real' keyboard. That's also the thing abut the Treo (or BB etc) over the iPhone: IMO a real keyboard gives much more flecibility. I just switched from a TX where I used myKBD which was very fast for text entry really, but now having a keyboard I find there are lots of other advantages to the hard keys. And the 5 way seems more efficient to me than having to use two hands to move through applications. I just don't know how functional a keyless device really will be. (HTC Touch does still have a 5 way which I think is a big advantage).
    06-17-2007 01:27 PM
  25. bruckwine's Avatar
    IMO the iPhone should've at least have a nav button - the home button doesn't APPEAR to be a 5-way but who knows?? If not it would've made it that much easier to use. Btw why have a home button at all? They could've had more screen real estate and had a virtual home button too!
    06-17-2007 01:50 PM
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