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  1. mdavis's Avatar
    .... I don't understand.
    It's okay. I think you'll be very happy with the Iphone.
    06-07-2007 08:27 PM
  2. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    I understand perfectly, Mdavis!

    I prefer tactile keyboards too. I really don't like having to use a stylus(in this case your finger is the stylus) all the time. It's cool for video usage and surfing, but when you text as much as I do, it can get annoying constantly poking on the screen with a virtual keyboard.
    06-07-2007 09:03 PM
  3. MacUser's Avatar
    I understand perfectly, Mdavis!

    I prefer tactile keyboards too. I really don't like having to use a stylus(in this case your finger is the stylus) all the time. It's cool for video usage and surfing, but when you text as much as I do, it can get annoying constantly poking on the screen with a virtual keyboard.
    If you get the chance, are you at least going to try it? The poking that is...
    06-07-2007 09:10 PM
  4. archie's Avatar
    I understand perfectly, Mdavis!

    I prefer tactile keyboards too.
    So if I understand this then, it's a matter of preference?

    Or is it a matter of tactile feedback?

    Either way, it has a keyboard.
    06-07-2007 09:16 PM
  5. archie's Avatar
    It's okay. I think you'll be very happy with the Iphone.
    Thanks for patronizing me.
    06-07-2007 09:18 PM
  6. efudd's Avatar
    Sorry. I didn't see that from 10 posts back.


    I just read the part where you say it doesn't have a keyboard. And then even after dismissing symantics , you still say: "If it had a keyboard...it would have a keyboard. Perhaps I should say that more clearly: If it had a keyboard...it would have a keyboard."

    What do you mean exactly? I don't understand.
    I guess to "old school" folks it just isn't a keyboard.


    try dictionary.com

    there's about 4 entries for the noun keyboard- the definitions for what we are talking about all basically say

    a set of keys, usually arranged in tiers, for operating a typewriter, typesetting machine, computer terminal, or the like.
    there's no keys on a touchscreen- there are visual representations of keys but no actual keys. As my post above there is no tactile feedback and that's pretty much what makes a touchscreen picture of a screen different from a keyboard or "hard buttons"

    you can also look up touchscreen and see that they are not similar definitions.

    You can draw braille "dots" on the touchscreen and even have the screen respond to presses in those areas but it isn't going to help a blind person.

    We aren't having a pissing match about what the meaning of "is" is.

    I guess you are saying that it's semantics that a the graphical representation of a keyboard on a touchscreen is the same thing as a keyboard but some of us dont think that's semantics but rather a significant difference. (it might work as well- or even BETTER- but it's not a keyboard in our minds- maybe it's an age thing?)

    If i draw a picture of a quarter on the screen is it a quarter? Maybe apple hooks up with visa and comes up with one of those wireless payment systems that are always "right around the corner". And you can walk up to a vending machine and the phone will sense the machine and put pictures of coins ont he screen. You can hit the picture of the quarter and the phone will transfer 25 cents from your bank account to the vending machine. Would you say "i placed a quarter in the machine"? maybe you would. I and the "old timers" would probably say "I paid 25 cents" or "i transferred 25 cents to the machine" or something like that. A quarter never changed hands.

    Check out the remote control type forums- people there pretty much all agree that "hard buttons" on a remote are a differnt animal from "soft buttons" on a touch screen remote.
    06-07-2007 09:53 PM
  7. mdavis's Avatar
    Th-th-th-that's all folks!
    06-07-2007 10:01 PM
  8. marcol's Avatar
    Very strange discussion but I'll bite.

    try dictionary.com

    there's about 4 entries for the noun keyboard- the definitions for what we are talking about all basically say

    a set of keys, usually arranged in tiers, for operating a typewriter, typesetting machine, computer terminal, or the like.
    there's no keys on a touchscreen- there are visual representations of keys but no actual keys.
    You should have looked up 'key' while you were at dictionary.com

    "one of a set of marked parts, designated areas, or levers pressed in operating a typewriter, computer terminal, calculator, etc"

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/key

    The thing on the iPhone has to have a noun (otherwise we have to call it 'the thing on the iPhone' ) and 'keyboard' seems like the only sensible option. Preface it with 'virtual' to distinguish from a 'physical keyboard' and you're sorted. It is after all how these things have been described for many years (as, I suspect, every poster in this thread knows perfectly well! )
    06-08-2007 05:07 AM
  9. Kupe#WP's Avatar
    How about iKeyboard because it requires your "eye" to use it?
    06-08-2007 05:24 AM
  10. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    So if I understand this then, it's a matter of preference?

    Or is it a matter of tactile feedback?

    Either way, it has a keyboard.
    I like to press keys, not touch screens constantly. A virtual keyboard gets too annoying when you write a lot. Matter of preference, I suppose. People seem to love touchscreens on here. Not me as much.

    I may test one in the store(wonder when they'll go on display), but I don't know if I can use an iPhone every day due to having to touch the screen for everything.

    Oh yes, it does have a keyboard, but I think Mdavis doesn't view a virtual keyboard as a "real" one. I can see what he/she means.
    06-08-2007 10:34 AM
  11. mdavis's Avatar
    There is also the matter of available software of course which will take time to develop, if ever.
    06-08-2007 10:37 AM
  12. efudd's Avatar
    Very strange discussion but I'll bite.


    You should have looked up 'key' while you were at dictionary.com

    "one of a set of marked parts, designated areas, or levers pressed in operating a typewriter, computer terminal, calculator, etc"

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/key

    The thing on the iPhone has to have a noun (otherwise we have to call it 'the thing on the iPhone' ) and 'keyboard' seems like the only sensible option. Preface it with 'virtual' to distinguish from a 'physical keyboard' and you're sorted. It is after all how these things have been described for many years (as, I suspect, every poster in this thread knows perfectly well! )

    I think "virtual" vs "real"

    or

    "hard" vs "soft"

    or something like that is exactly correct.

    I see your point in how under common usage it will be morphed to just "keyboard". In 10 years maybe all "keyboards" with be the 'virtual' type.

    I'm sure that over the course of the past few year that's happened with such techology things. Sort of like we still "dial" the phone even though probably half a third of the population has never seen a dial on a phone first hand.
    06-08-2007 01:26 PM
  13. dstrauss#IM's Avatar
    If you get the chance, are you at least going to try it? The poking that is...
    Gus McCall said it best when accused of cheating at cards with Diane Lane...

    Well, I wouldn't say I did and I wouldn't say I didn't, but I will say this: A man who wouldn't cheat for a poke, don't want one bad enough.
    06-08-2007 01:31 PM
  14. whmurray's Avatar
    Wondering what folks think...
    It seems as though the question is no longer meaningful. Whatever was the case when the iPhone was announced, it is clear that there is not now a "Treo Franchise." While the iPhone may have had a little effect on that, Palm would have used it up all by themselves with no help from Apple.
    06-08-2007 01:53 PM
  15. oalvarez's Avatar
    it has a keyboard.

    06-09-2007 01:19 PM
  16. whmurray's Avatar
    it has a keyboard.

    It remains to be seen how this mechanism works. It is clear that one will not be able to "touch" type on it. On the other hand, one cannot touch type on a Treo either.
    06-09-2007 08:27 PM
  17. oalvarez's Avatar
    my post read "it has a keyboard."

    nothing else, nothing about how it works.

    it has a keyboard, get used to it.
    06-10-2007 12:12 AM
  18. Malatesta's Avatar

    I see your point in how under common usage it will be morphed to just "keyboard". In 10 years maybe all "keyboards" with be the 'virtual' type.
    I'm actually not convinced that it will happen even though one would expect it to.

    Between those "laser/ir" keyboards from a few years back which just seemed so awesome and obvious and other virtual keyboards like TenGo's (which I actually liked), none really ever seem to catch on. Mostly b/c they just don't feel right (whatever that means).

    Reinventing the keyboard just seems quite difficult. I don't even like today's keyboards, instead I'm hunting down one of those IBM M-series, which are still the best typing devices, imo (and seeing the prices they fetch, others agree).

    I think that's why so many of us are skeptical.

    As to the original topic: Palm is certainly down now and that's their own undoing, has nothing to do with Apple. But they are poised to make a big return if they don't screw it up. The next few months will be very critical for them.

    The iPhone for the cell market will further drive the market for "sleeker" devices, which really kicked off with the Razr but in the end, will have limited impact do to price and carrier restrictions. In 6 months hopefully we'll all be talking about the "next big thing", which I hope involves the word Wimax
    06-10-2007 03:48 PM
  19. sxtg's Avatar
    No
    06-10-2007 07:57 PM
  20. mdavis's Avatar
    ...

    it has a keyboard....
    No, wishing won't make it happen, neither will repetition, no matter how much. It has an image of a keyboard, not a keyboard.
    06-11-2007 05:12 AM
  21. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Can we leave it at "yes it's a VIRTUAL keyboard, but not a PHYSICAL keyboard", otherwise this will never end! LOL! From the horse's mouth:

    Intelligent Keyboard
    iPhone’s full QWERTY soft keyboard lets you easily send and receive SMS messages in multiple sessions. And the keyboard is predictive, so it prevents and corrects mistakes, making it easier and more efficient to use than the small plastic keyboards on many smartphones.

    So yes, Apple believes it qualifies as a keyboard, even if it is virtual.
    06-11-2007 08:02 AM
  22. mdavis's Avatar
    It's a virtual keyboard. Like virtual money, virtual reality, virtual virtue. Make believe.
    06-11-2007 11:08 AM
  23. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    OK how about "intangible"? I've used these types of keyboards before and they're certainly real, just not hard keys. I guess it's some kind of program they use, I really don't know.
    06-11-2007 11:13 AM
  24. mdavis's Avatar
    Definitely. It's a real image, a genuine image, just like great art, an actual tangible representation of something that's not really there. It's not a keyboard, but it's a really good representation of one. And the representation is really really real. Otherwise all those museums would be empty. There's real stuff in there. Representing stuff that's not there. Except for the stuff that is--like medieval armor, furniture, old instruments, old ruins, and canoes. And usually a nice cafe or restaurant.
    06-11-2007 11:19 AM
  25. oalvarez's Avatar
    taken from the iPhone site:

    Intelligent Keyboard
    iPhone’s full QWERTY soft keyboard lets you easily send and receive SMS messages in multiple sessions. And the keyboard is predictive, so it prevents and corrects mistakes, making it easier and more efficient to use than the small plastic keyboards on many smartphones.


    see, it has a keyboard.
    06-11-2007 11:24 AM
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