1. marcol's Avatar
    Thats Exchange IMAP, just like any other IMAP.
    For sure. But as far as I can see the only functional difference is the absence of push. Apple Mail polls at (user) defined intervals so you do have to wait a bit (5 min is what I have it set to so I guess the average wait is about 2.5 ). Is push better? Definitely. Can you get your exchange mail with Apple Mail. Absolutely.
    06-11-2007 07:16 PM
  2. surur's Avatar
    For sure. But as far as I can see the only functional difference is the absence of push. Apple Mail polls at (user) defined intervals so you do have to wait a bit (5 min is what I have it set to so I guess the average wait is about 2.5 ). Is push better? Definitely. Can you get your exchange mail with Apple Mail. Absolutely.
    There's a lot more to Exchange than e-mail. The calendering part is very important in the business world, and of course there are things like notes and tasks which are useful to individuals.

    Surur
    06-11-2007 07:43 PM
  3. Antoine of MMM#IM's Avatar
    The iPhone will be a phone for business users. It will serve as a second phone to their work-issued BBs. Just like many who have BBs do, the iPhone will be a good second phone, and one they are willing to carry to say that they are cool
    06-11-2007 07:50 PM
  4. surur's Avatar
    Antoine, admit it, you have a mac, dont you?

    Surur
    06-11-2007 09:09 PM
  5. Antoine of MMM#IM's Avatar
    Antoine, admit it, you have a mac, dont you?
    sorry i don't. I use them much. only when i did a/v @ church and for few other tasks. I prefered BeOS for a while and then relented to windows because the Linux world is still a mess to me. lately its been all Treo and therefore i am digging the Foleo a bit more.

    At the moment i am on the n800. Web apps are an attractive thought. OS platforms... eh
    06-12-2007 12:28 AM
  6. dstrauss#IM's Avatar
    Talking about Exchange support is pretty irrelevant without attachment viewing support. Now, give me at least a Word/Excel/Powerpoint viewer AND Exchange push connectivity, then this IS a business user's alternative.
    06-12-2007 01:27 PM
  7. archie's Avatar
    There's a lot more to Exchange than e-mail.
    Yah, like an incredible amount of overhead. CalDAV is the way to go. More capable and efficient.
    06-16-2007 02:57 AM
  8. surur's Avatar
    Yah, like an incredible amount of overhead. CalDAV is the way to go. More capable and efficient.
    Yes, have fun trying to send a meeting invitation to your non-caldav pals.

    Surur
    06-16-2007 03:51 AM
  9. ScandaLeX's Avatar
    Wow, those Microsoft guys are real masters of the obvious. Of course the iPhone won't be for business people. It doesn't do Exchange or BB. I love it when Microsoft idiots say stuff like that. It just makes them looks like real tools.

    Joe
    Real tools? If M$ didnt have something to say, you'd probably still refer to them in the same way. IMO, all types of ppl are going to buy an iPhone; even business users.... and for many reasons.

    I dont know how many times I've read on these forums that a lot of ppl have more than one phone. Sometimes, especially weekends, you may not want to be connected to "business." Or you dont want to carry your brick to the club...
    06-16-2007 06:59 AM
  10. oalvarez's Avatar
    I dont know how many times I've read on these forums that a lot of ppl have more than one phone. Sometimes, especially weekends, you may not want to be connected to "business." Or you dont want to carry your brick to the club...
    if it doesn't handle high-volume email in a real time manner, the iphone will not replace a blackberry for that type of business user. i was originally contemplating it as a second phone but i think it's somewhat silly to have two different phones that do almost the same.

    will the iphone be a great device for someone who is a first time phone and ipod user, yes. will it be a great device for the glam weekender? absolutely. it's got cool written all over it and if you're an itunes person, it's ever better for you. but without exchange, BES, or some sort of real-time push email program, it will not be replacing the blackberry on much of wall street anytime soon. at least that's my take.

    p.s. i love the "brick" reference
    06-16-2007 09:14 AM
  11. surur's Avatar
    will the iphone be a great device for someone who is a first time phone and ipod user, yes. will it be a great device for the glam weekender? absolutely. it's got cool written all over it and if you're an itunes person, it's ever better for you. but without exchange, BES, or some sort of real-time push email program, it will not be replacing the blackberry on much of wall street anytime soon. at least that's my take.
    Let me just add I completely agree with this. The IPhone will be very cool.

    Surur
    06-16-2007 09:23 AM
  12. oalvarez's Avatar
    Let me just add I completely agree with this. The IPhone will be very cool.

    Surur
    see, we do agree on many things....i think this is now the second time!?
    06-16-2007 09:58 AM
  13. mikec#IM's Avatar
    I have to agree with some earlier comments.

    Blackberries are overrated. POP is good enough for most.

    The only benefit of BB is syncing of inbox and calendar using BES. But that only works if you put everything in your compnay email and calendar, which I would never do.

    I have multiple inboxes (work, personal), but only ONE calendar and to-do list.

    POP/IMAP is the only way to handle this (and I prefer POP).

    Sure there are some limitations, but they are very minor compared to the functionality.

    I used to have a BB, and it email great, but I need more than just email.

    So as far as email goes, the iPhone is fine with POP (or SPOP).
    06-16-2007 10:31 AM
  14. oalvarez's Avatar
    how is a blackberry overrated? most owners are business professionals whose workplace (finance industry especially as it is extremely email/data dependent) use a BES specifically for email purposes (as you state). and for those users (many on the go) a Blackberry with its more slim and portable design fits them perfectly. have you ever witnessed how long a Blackberry's battery's charge lasts?

    i'd hardly say that they're overrated unless you equate overrated with success. now, a Treo on the other hand.....
    06-16-2007 10:54 AM
  15. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Overated in that everyone thinks that BB email is the be-all-end-all. It's not.

    The BB was great 5 years ago when there weren't any options. Today, it's a just one a several options.

    Yes, I've seen how long BB batteries last, and yes, they are good devices.

    But companies overpay for them and the service.

    Financial services always by the most expensive stuff anyway - after all, it's not their money they are spending ;-).

    I know a global firm (40,000+ employees) who purged BB and went to Treos.

    Saved over $20M, and had happier employees. (No one picks a BB when they can have a Treo.
    06-16-2007 02:18 PM
  16. oalvarez's Avatar
    Wrong. But please think that if you wish. If you don't believe it just read throughout the other devices forums. They're dumping their bricks by the truckload.

    By the way, I still yet to see wall street personnel armed with treos. I wonder why?


    See ya
    06-16-2007 03:29 PM
  17. MerQ's Avatar
    Wow, those Microsoft guys are real masters of the obvious. Of course the iPhone won't be for business people. It doesn't do Exchange or BB. I love it when Microsoft idiots say stuff like that. It just makes them looks like real tools.

    Joe
    Add to the fact that the iPhone has a hard drive that will eventually be hacked and it also has a camera which more businesses aren't allowing to be had in the workplace anymore.
    06-16-2007 04:07 PM
  18. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    I think it's a flash drive.
    06-16-2007 05:14 PM
  19. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Overated in that everyone thinks that BB email is the be-all-end-all. It's not.

    (No one picks a BB when they can have a Treo.
    I'll agree that BB email isn't the only option.

    BUT read my sig. :evil:
    When that 3G and wifi BB come out later this year, I'll be looking at it.
    06-16-2007 05:20 PM
  20. taroliw's Avatar
    Microsofts Asia-Pacific head of smartphone strategy Chris Sorenson said that If youre an enterprise and want to roll out line of business applications, its just not an option. Even using it as a heavy messaging device will be a challenge.
    I'm sorry... is the implication that if you don't support Office attachments then messaging in the enterprise becomes pointless? That's a really funny assertion since I am a very heavy email, SMS, and IM user on my phone and I can't remember the last time within a year that I just couldn't survive without opening an Office attachment. And, yes, we do have DocsToGo... I just find little need to ever use it, except maybe to open the occasional PDF.

    That said, I tend to agree the iPhone will flop for business... but only because it's not a true smartphone. I reject the notion that if you're not in bed with Microsoft then you aren't serious about business. That's just a foolish as Apple selling us the idea that Web 2.0 and Ajax is a realistic third part application option for iPhone.
    06-16-2007 06:13 PM
  21. taroliw's Avatar
    Not to me, I use my blackberry for email, and IM far more than making phone calls. Im sorry, but with IMAP, and pop access only, the iPhone will never be a successful business device.
    My usage pattern on my Treo is very similar. I can go a week without realizing i have voicemail because I'm almost never in the phone. And I agree that without a realistic means of supporting third party app development -- no, a new-fangled J2ME/MIDP solution doesn't count -- then it will just a be fancy, overpriced feature phone.
    06-16-2007 06:18 PM
  22. taroliw's Avatar
    I still yet to see wall street personnel armed with treos. I wonder why?
    That's easy... these people are not technical and rely upon whatever corporate tells them to use. And most of these large institutions bought into Blackberry a long time ago. Getting them to change that now would be a Herculean effort. So a lot of what /keeps/ them on BB is inertia.

    These days, there are fully functional alternatives to the basic wireless email, IM, PIM functionality... that don't require a central server or huge licensing and service fees. By the way, the same goes for GoodLink. These services do have ways of adding other value, such as remotely managed device security, deployment of centralized applications, etc. But if you're not doing any of those things, then their relevance in today's market for a new entrant is seriously reduced from what it was 4 or 5 years ago.

    Having made that point, though, does the iPhone offer functional alternatives to such a serivce? No. It doesn't have OTA PIM sync, it's not particularly clear if it's going to have IM. About the only area where it seems to do OK -- and only if you can live with the on-screen keyboard, which is still a wildcard for me until I actually get to try one -- is email. Yeah, people seem to pan IMAP in preference to ActiveSync and DirectPush... but guess what? It works. Before Chatter supported EX directpush, I used IMAP quite successfully with Exchange to do push email.

    So, overall, I'd say iPhone will be a no-go for me. It won't include the things I personally need in a device and it absolutely will not allow me to add antyhing optional and fun. I'm sure there will be some people who will find it useful and adore it. In fact, Palm has acknowledged there is such a market by trying to sell *downward* into the market. But it is becoming painfully obvious of late that trying to make the case that iPhone will compete with smartphones is just not going to fly.
    06-16-2007 06:32 PM
  23. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Bingo...perfectly stated taroliw
    06-16-2007 08:27 PM
  24. oalvarez's Avatar
    not sure what mikec is pointing to. regardless, successful companies decide what is best for their needs. blackberries and bes (maybe goodlink) seem to provide the best, secure, real-time email application for them. finance industry types (and i'm really speaking about wall street professionals) depend on SECURE email, phone and data....that's really it, especially when out of the office (they carry laptops if doing presentations and the like)....so like you said Taroliw, that's what these people do, and that's what these people need, and that's why Blackberry's are so popular in that universe. like 'em, hate 'em, it doesn't matter.....they do what is required, best. if they didn't, they wouldn't exist.....as in the Treo or iPhone for that matter. but you're not going to tell me that Blackberry devices don't have a purpose or place in the marketplace.
    06-16-2007 08:36 PM
  25. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Overrated and "not having a place in the market" are two completely different things.

    Even my old Compaq Aero has a place in the market. ;-)

    Like I said, BB are, just not the BAEA.

    As for security in financial services, I have a goo story on that.

    Turns out a major bank misprogrammed their call center for online banking to transfer escalation calls to my phone.

    It got annoying to get dozens of calls per day from dissatisfied customers.

    I tried to tell the bank, and they said it wasn't possible and wouldn't fix it. Really annoying to get all the calls (I get business calls from all over US, so it was hard to tell who was a client and who was from the bank.)


    So I had a little fun.

    At first, I just listened empathetically, and offered a $1,000 credit to their account. That got some wonderful responses.

    Other calls I decided to go down the "what are you wearing route", which was fun.

    Finally, I did the ID thief move and asked for their name, address, account numbers, credit card numbers, SSN, mother's maiden name, passwords and PINs. The customers, thinking they were internally transferred, glady gave up the info. (Esp. when I offered the $1,000 credit).

    I compiled a list of about 50 customers, and Fedexed it to every officer and board member of the bank, as well as their security folks with a little love note about security, identity theft, and the going rate for choice IDs in Estonia.


    I got a call a couple days later from a vampire (lawyer) with an threatening attitude...I told him if another lawyer calls me back, my next Fedex would be to every national daily newspaper and TV station.

    The next call was from some Veep, who was actually pretty cool and let me explain the story.

    They fix their phone, and compensated me $200 in overage changes on my cell phone.

    Not much to do with BB, but the point is that mobile device security is a small piece of the puzzle.
    06-16-2007 10:39 PM
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