1. surur's Avatar
    I think he is being sarcastic. He's implying AT&T wants to prevent VOIP in what they believe will be their most popular smartphone ever with WIFI.

    Surur
    06-08-2007 01:24 PM
  2. dstrauss#IM's Avatar
    ...I'm sure they just want to make sure that poorly designed 3rd party apps won't crash, lag or ruin the iPhone experience.
    Amen. How many posts were there around here right after the Treo 600 release warning everyone about serious instability problems after loading up with Palm software...there is NO WAY to know how a poorly written app (or even one well written but using undocumented hooks) can trash the cell phone side. Also, how often do we hear around here that it "is a cell phone first" So, although I'm far from an Apple fanboy, I'd cut them a lot of slack on this one.

    Just think about it...as a cell phone, how much more stable is your Razr than your Treo?
    06-08-2007 01:28 PM
  3. surur's Avatar
    Amen. How many posts were there around here right after the Treo 600 release warning everyone about serious instability problems after loading up with Palm software...there is NO WAY to know how a poorly written app (or even one well written but using undocumented hooks) can trash the cell phone side. Also, how often do we hear around here that it "is a cell phone first" So, although I'm far from an Apple fanboy, I'd cut them a lot of slack on this one.

    Just think about it...as a cell phone, how much more stable is your Razr than your Treo?
    Every time some-one installs a 3rd party app its to meet a need not catered for by the OEM, be it for better wallpaper or to record expenses. By stopping owners from doing this you deliberately leave them limited and unsatisfied.

    This whole thing just confirms what many people have always said - when it comes to security and stability, Apple is no better than anyone else, they are just not being targeted.

    Surur
    06-08-2007 02:00 PM
  4. lschiedel's Avatar
    Given the lack of any emoticon I can only assume you meant that in seriousness. VOIP cellphones have been around for at least 3 years (Windows Mobile - heard of it?) with Verizon and it hasn't caused so much as a dent in their business.

    LOL - so your only point is you feel the most unique/new thing the iPhone brings to the world of wireless communication is significantly increased vulnerability to malicious software? Are you as clueless as Steve Jobs on this topic?
    And how did i imply that is the only unique/new thing the iPhone brings to the world of wireless communication? I was talking only about the 3rd party software situation.

    All i said was that AT&T might be worried about VOIP (again not that they deserve to) and about VIRUSES (again not that thats the big point of the IPHONE).

    You think maybe some clueless execs at AT&T may have put pressure on Apple because they have heard about VOIP and don't want Apple to put it on the phone?

    Or that Jobs is worried his reputation may get tarnished by the first virus passed by bad 3rd party software that makes people think its a vunerability in OS X (which he still insists is the OS of the IPHONE).
    06-08-2007 04:15 PM
  5. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Amen. How many posts were there around here right after the Treo 600 release warning everyone about serious instability problems after loading up with Palm software...there is NO WAY to know how a poorly written app (or even one well written but using undocumented hooks) can trash the cell phone side. Also, how often do we hear around here that it "is a cell phone first" So, although I'm far from an Apple fanboy, I'd cut them a lot of slack on this one.

    Just think about it...as a cell phone, how much more stable is your Razr than your Treo?
    But how much less usable was my RAZR than the Treo?
    However, I only loaded well-reviewed apps on my Treo. People here like to do beta testing and that's why apps messed up the Treo.

    Allowing 3rd party apps is a chance you have to take if you want to infiltrate the smartphone market(assuming this is one thing Apple wants to do. I still think it's more a multimedia phone). OR create powerful enough apps so no one wants to look anywhere else. But even then, some developer will come up with something you didn't think of.
    06-08-2007 05:41 PM
  6. bclinger#IM's Avatar
    Someone was saying he had heard that Apple was releasing a SDK kit. A search of today's posts might find the guy. Ben
    06-09-2007 01:39 PM
  7. archie's Avatar
    Now how can Apple possibly develop an SDK if they are still developing there own initial applications (AND changing primary elements of the OS) for the phone? You will notice a great deal of updating occurring for the first few months after the iPhone's release. Why would they develop (try to develop) an SDK if software is changing so much at this stage?

    I said it 2 weeks ago and I'll say it again: "Apple is not ready with an SDK yet".
    06-16-2007 02:40 AM
  8. braj's Avatar
    Now how can Apple possibly develop an SDK if they are still developing there own initial applications (AND changing primary elements of the OS) for the phone? You will notice a great deal of updating occurring for the first few months after the iPhone's release. Why would they develop (try to develop) an SDK if software is changing so much at this stage?

    I said it 2 weeks ago and I'll say it again: "Apple is not ready with an SDK yet".
    That is total BS. Changing primary elements of the OS right now would mean they are in Alpha, not even beta (feature complete). They aren't going to be in Alpha for the 'first few months' after release. Where do you get your info?
    06-16-2007 04:09 AM
  9. surur's Avatar
    That is total BS. ... Where do you get your info?
    He makes it up as he goes along. Its all fantasy and wish fulfillment.

    Surur
    06-16-2007 04:17 AM
  10. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Maybe Archie means since the iPhone is missing apps to make it more business friendly, they'll add them as needed when they look at public reception? Just wondering if that's what he meant.

    They need to add IM ASAP!!
    06-16-2007 05:20 AM
  11. surur's Avatar
    According to Archie it has been added already, viana web app. Im sure you dont mind giving the website your username, password and the content of your IM messaging. I also hope you dont mind the inevitable cross-site scripting hacks that will take place.

    The brave new world is going to be so much fun.

    Surur
    06-16-2007 06:20 AM
  12. mikec#IM's Avatar
    Having the OS done and having the SDK done are 2 different things.

    Actually, the sdk comes before the OS is released (well before).

    Apple has one, but has decided against the BREW route and basically is saying Safari is the the only presentation layer for app dev (of course, inless you are Apple internal, in which case you get the rich experience client apps all to yourself.
    06-16-2007 09:51 AM
  13. archie's Avatar

    Actually, the sdk comes before the OS is released (well before).
    Think about what you just said. That does not make any sense. Just isn't possible.
    06-16-2007 12:41 PM
  14. surur's Avatar
    Think about what you just said. That does not make any sense. Just isn't possible.
    Actually, Archie, he's right (and you are wrong of course, but thats given). Usually no-one released an OS without 3rd party software to go with it. The SDK gets released to developers well before the OS goes gold.

    Apple of course thinks an OS without 3rd party software is juuust fine....

    Surur
    06-16-2007 12:50 PM
  15. archie's Avatar
    That is total BS. Changing primary elements of the OS right now would mean they are in Alpha, not even beta (feature complete). They aren't going to be in Alpha for the 'first few months' after release. Where do you get your info?
    So you think they have APIs to work with that will remain fixed for the next 6 months?

    I'm not talking about "application binary interfaces", I'm talking about "application programming interfaces".
    06-16-2007 12:53 PM
  16. archie's Avatar
    Actually, Archie, he's right (and you are wrong of course, but thats given). Usually no-one released an OS without 3rd party software to go with it. The SDK gets released to developers well before the OS goes gold.

    Apple of course thinks an OS without 3rd party software is juuust fine....

    Surur
    see my post above
    06-16-2007 12:54 PM
  17. surur's Avatar
    So you think they have APIs to work with that will remain fixed for the next 6 months?

    I'm not talking about "application binary interfaces", I'm talking about "application programming interfaces".
    Yes Archie, this explains why they released the carbon sdk in 2000, nearly a year before they released OS X. Its impossible, but Jobs can do the impossible, so thats OK.

    PS: You should really stay away from industry jargon. Your art background is showing.

    Apple Releases Mac OS X Developer Preview 4 with Final API Specs
    Preview Comes Bundled with Microsoft Internet Explorer 5 and Supports the Java 2 Platform
    WWDC, SAN JOSE, CaliforniaMay 15, 2000Apple today released its fourth developer preview of Mac OS X to the 4,000 developers attending its annual Worldwide Developer Conference. This preview version of Apples next generation operating system includes the final API specifications required by developers to complete upgrades of their applications to take full advantage of Mac OS Xs new capabilities. Mac OS X Developer Preview 4 also includes a version of Microsofts Internet Explorer 5 specifically for Mac OS X, and support for the Java 2 Platform.

    With this Preview release, developers now have everything they need to make killer applications for Mac OS X, said Steve Jobs, Apples CEO. We are incredibly pleased at the support we are getting from many of the worlds best software developers for Mac OS X, the future of the Mac platform.
    http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2000/may/15macosx.html

    Mac OS X Gold Master Released To Manufacturing
    Worlds Most Advanced Operating System Ready to Ship on March 24
    CUPERTINO, CAMarch 7, 2001Apple today announced that Mac OS X, the next generation Macintosh operating system, is complete and the gold master has been released to manufacturing for production. Mac OS X will ship on March 24, 2001, for a suggested retail price of $129 (US). Mac OS X is the worlds most advanced operating system, combining the power and openness of UNIX with the legendary ease of use and broad applications base of Macintosh.
    http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2001...macosx_gm.html

    Surur
    06-16-2007 01:14 PM
  18. braj's Avatar
    So you think they have APIs to work with that will remain fixed for the next 6 months?

    I'm not talking about "application binary interfaces", I'm talking about "application programming interfaces".
    Do you even know what an API is or did you read that on Wikipedia?

    What you have said previously shows you have no idea about the hardware/software development process and I won't waste my time in a back and forth with you. Don't make stuff up about things that you don't understand. It makes you look bad.
    06-16-2007 01:22 PM
  19. archie's Avatar
    Yes Archie, this explains why they released the carbon sdk in 2000, nearly a year before they released OS X. Its impossible, but Jobs can do the impossible, so thats OK.

    PS: You should really stay away from industry jargon. Your art background is showing.



    http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2000/may/15macosx.html


    http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2001...macosx_gm.html

    Surur
    Carbon was what OS 9 was based on. They then brought that capability to OS X. Check your history
    06-16-2007 01:34 PM
  20. archie's Avatar
    Do you even know what an API is or did you read that on Wikipedia?

    What you have said previously shows you have no idea about the hardware/software development process and I won't waste my time in a back and forth with you. Don't make stuff up about things that you don't understand. It makes you look bad.
    Well, I have Apple Developer status. Do you?

    OK, then. Shut it.
    06-16-2007 01:36 PM
  21. surur's Avatar
    Carbon was what OS 9 was based on. They then brought that capability to OS X. Check your history
    Not quite.

    Well, I have Apple Developer status. Do you?

    OK, then. Shut it.
    So this is why Jobs is so scared that third party devs will mess up the IPhone. If all Apple devs knew as little as you about computers I would lock up the IPhone too.

    Surur
    06-16-2007 01:41 PM
  22. Malatesta's Avatar
    Think about what you just said. That does not make any sense. Just isn't possible.
    Archie, your credibility (what's left of it) is sinking fast:

    ACCESS Releases ACCESS Linux Platform PDK and SDK to Licensees and Developers (2/12/07)

    ...and as everyone knows, ALP is far from being ready for release yet.

    And furthermore, SDK's typically come out months before any device comes out with it, for obvious reasons: 3rd party development.

    WM6's SDK was released in March, well ahead of official WM6 device roll-outs.

    WM5's SDK was released in 5/2005. The 6700 was released here in the States in October 2005.
    06-16-2007 01:41 PM
  23. surur's Avatar
    Archie, your credibility (what's left of it) is sinking fast
    Archie is into negative credibility - when he says something it makes the opposite sound more true.

    Surur
    06-16-2007 01:52 PM
  24. braj's Avatar
    Well, I have Apple Developer status. Do you?

    OK, then. Shut it.
    I have ADC through my work. But ADC membership doesn't mean you know anything. What apps have you created for the Apple platform?

    All I know from my years in the industry is that everyone publishes their SDK to their platforms ASAP to allow developers to code for it so there are apps available for the platform at release. A year early in a lot of cases. This is my first hand experience and I have worked with OS development. Now Apple may not have made this external but internally their own developers need this. I find it extremely unlikely that this is not the case. But guess what, a former colleague of mine is a QA manager on the iPhone group, so I can probably find out soon. Probably not until after release though.
    06-16-2007 02:02 PM
  25. braj's Avatar
    Carbon was an Apple cross-platform language to support legacy apps so developers who had OS 9 apps could easily make them cross-platform during the transition to OS X. It was not what OS 9 was based on. It only allowed you to have the same binary that could be used on OS 9 and OS X.

    Archie, again you prove you don't know what you are talking about.
    06-16-2007 02:09 PM
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