1. surur's Avatar
    FCC approval is based on hardware. Carrier testing? That has been done over the course of the last year.
    I thought Cingular only saw the phone a week or two ago? Which one is it? Carriers do carrier testing, not Apple,and it usually FOLLOWS FCC clearance.

    Carrier testing certainly involves software.

    Surur
    01-17-2007 06:04 PM
  2. cjdaniel's Avatar
    I think it is hilarious that people keep saying "People said the Mac was going to be a failure and they were wrong"

    I am not saying the iphone won't be successful but Steve Jobs was fired from Apple for his failures, I know some of you aren't old enought to remember...
    20th Anniversary Macintosh

    A/UX Operating system 1988
    Mac Classic
    Apple Hockey puck mouse
    The Mac Cube
    Powerbook 5300
    Mac TV
    Lisa
    15.1 Macintosh Portable $6,500
    Newton
    Rokr
    01-17-2007 06:08 PM
  3. MarkY's Avatar
    As far as I can tell, almost everyone thinks

    a) the phone is built very well
    b) it will influence the industry as far as design/expectations
    c) it will do very well

    What a lot of us disagree on is that it will

    1) replace or compete with the Treo or even PDA line of smartphones
    2) it can do more than current technology
    That's a pretty good summary of popular opinion from what I've heard and read. :thumbsup:
    01-17-2007 06:09 PM
  4. cjdaniel's Avatar
    That's a pretty good summary of popular opinion from what I've heard and read. :thumbsup:
    I agree too.
    01-17-2007 06:11 PM
  5. Tastypeppers's Avatar
    Following up on the Michael Mace comment I threw in from my Treo...

    Yes it's a phone. Yes it will have a huge impact on the phone world. (Probably for the good, I'd say).

    But I think his perspective of looking at it through Playstation glasses is much more instructive than looking at the iPhone through Treo (or TyTN or whatever phone you like) glasses. Apple is simply coming at the phone market from a completely different angle. And from their angle "lock out 3rd party developers" is a Good Thing.

    Kinda like pick-up trucks and cars. Coming at the same market--boxes of steel on wheels--from two different angles. Stands to reason you'd think differently about the basic configuration of both.

    So if I complain that my Honda Accord doesn't have a truck bed and can't tow a big speedboat, you're going to look at me funny. Kinda like the way Steve Jobs will look at me when I whine about not having Expense Diary (www.adarian.com) installed on my iPhone.

    In the Honda Accord market, you don't need that stuff. In the newly-defined market that the iPhone is creating, you don't need/get 3rd party software.
    01-17-2007 06:28 PM
  6. bcaslis#IM's Avatar
    Apple has certainly had failures. But several you listed below were done when Jobs was not there, it's hard to believe he would have released those. Those were:

    20th Anniversary Macintosh
    A/UX Operating system 1988
    Powerbook 5300
    15.1 Macintosh Portable $6,500
    Newton

    As far as the ROKR, that was a Motorola product, Apple only supplied iTunes software for it. I can't believe anyone thought it would sell. It was a very clunky looking phone with crippled iTunes capability. Of course the fact that the iPod Nano was released the same day didn't help it.

    I think it is hilarious that people keep saying "People said the Mac was going to be a failure and they were wrong"

    I am not saying the iphone won't be successful but Steve Jobs was fired from Apple for his failures, I know some of you aren't old enought to remember...
    20th Anniversary Macintosh

    A/UX Operating system 1988
    Mac Classic
    Apple Hockey puck mouse
    The Mac Cube
    Powerbook 5300
    Mac TV
    Lisa
    15.1 Macintosh Portable $6,500
    Newton
    Rokr
    01-17-2007 07:05 PM
  7. cjdaniel's Avatar
    Rokr may have been made by motorola but Steve was on stage.
    01-17-2007 07:10 PM
  8. samkim's Avatar
    I thought Cingular only saw the phone a week or two ago? Which one is it? Carriers do carrier testing, not Apple,and it usually FOLLOWS FCC clearance.

    Carrier testing certainly involves software.

    Surur
    Actually, I read that Apple gave Cingular dummy handsets so as not to reveal the iPhone design. I would assume the purpose of those handsets was testing. In theory, they could begin testing the phone hardware and software without the flashy UI.
    01-17-2007 08:36 PM
  9. GreenHex's Avatar
    The man-who-can-do-no-wrong has said in different interviews that badly written phone applications can take down the phone network, and that is bad. Hence no 3rd party apps for the iPhone.
    01-17-2007 08:54 PM
  10. ScandaLeX's Avatar
    I'm not bashin it just stating the facts. iPhone will be in a league of its own with out 3rd party support, like the Nokia N series. Hugly popular. but try runnin more than "fun " apps and u will quickly find out that there aren't too many places to go. Photos, Movies and Music.
    Financially speaking, of course it would make more sense to buch apple stock than Palms. That's a no brainer. but that's not the topic here.
    What facts? smiley, luv ya ta def; but like everyone else, seems to me that the only thing you are doing is speculating on a product that hasnt hit the shelves yet.

    On another note - who cares if you cant add 3rd party stuff to it. There's a device out there for everyone; depending on your needs. If you're happy with the Treo, thats great, but why bash something all to hell that many of you, who even sit here and say wont buy it, will be one of the 1st maxing out your cards to do so.

    Do I need an iPhone, nope....just like I didnt need all the other gadgets that I have. I've said before in other post that for me, gadgets are just a "want" factor.

    Knowing before hand that the iPhone wont do what the Treo does, I wouldnt get it with the thought in mind that it would; I mean, thats just plain ridiculous.

    I just wanna know why some of ya'll aint happy unless you can compare everything on the market to a Treo?!?
    01-17-2007 09:11 PM
  11. KMeloney's Avatar
    What facts? smiley, luv ya ta def; but like everyone else, seems to me that the only thing you are doing is speculating on a product that hasnt hit the shelves yet.

    On another note - who cares if you cant add 3rd party stuff to it. There's a device out there for everyone; depending on your needs. If you're happy with the Treo, thats great, but why bash something all to hell that many of you, who even sit here and say wont buy it, will be one of the 1st maxing out your cards to do so.

    Do I need an iPhone, nope....just like I didnt need all the other gadgets that I have. I've said before in other post that for me, gadgets are just a "want" factor.

    Knowing before hand that the iPhone wont do what the Treo does, I wouldnt get it with the thought in mind that it would; I mean, thats just plain ridiculous.

    I just wanna know why some of ya'll aint happy unless you can compare everything on the market to a Treo?!?
    ^ What she said. ^

    Lighten up, nay-sayers!

    /< / /2 /<
    01-17-2007 10:56 PM
  12. smileyboy's Avatar
    Well, everything is compared to a Treo. Well, cuz its Treocentral and the Treo is the best.
    I had a Nokia E61 I loved it. but not much software, no threaded messaging. A very nice phone but missin a few things.
    To be fair the Treos are missing a few things too, wifi and A2DP. This is what happens when a new product is released, it is talked about.
    Speculating is fun though, even when u don't know much about the product.
    01-17-2007 11:04 PM
  13. kmrivers's Avatar
    Well, everything is compared to a Treo. Well, cuz its Treocentral and the Treo is the best.
    I had a Nokia E61 I loved it. but not much software, no threaded messaging. A very nice phone but missin a few things.
    To be fair the Treos are missing a few things too, wifi and A2DP. This is what happens when a new product is released, it is talked about.
    Speculating is fun though, even when u don't know much about the product.
    A few questions. I just read your blog post on the iPhone. A few questions for you.

    1. Why do you think you can't listen to iTunes content?
    2. Why would you need Agendus with the sychronization the iPhone offers with the Mac?
    3. At the end you say, Apple has no iTunes support. What exactly do you mean? You do know it syncs all your content, not just media, through iTunes right?

    Sorry, it just seems that you failed to read up on how this thing worked.
    01-18-2007 02:17 AM
  14. surur's Avatar
    I just wanna know why some of ya'll aint happy unless you can compare everything on the market to a Treo?!?

    I guess thats why Jobs said everyone was doing the phone wrong and showed the Treo on his slides. I guess only the great turtle-necked god can compare one phone to another, and declare his the best. Woe befall us to criticize his IPhone.

    Surur
    01-18-2007 02:33 AM
  15. oalvarez's Avatar

    Knowing before hand that the iPhone wont do what the Treo does, I wouldnt get it with the thought in mind that it would; I mean, thats just plain ridiculous.

    I just wanna know why some of ya'll aint happy unless you can compare everything on the market to a Treo?!?
    a voice of reason. thank you.
    01-18-2007 07:55 AM
  16. mobileman's Avatar
    The man-who-can-do-no-wrong has said in different interviews that badly written phone applications can take down the phone network, and that is bad. Hence no 3rd party apps for the iPhone.
    A crazy comment. I would love to see a badly written app take down a carriers network. Thousands of apps (some bad) have been written for both the palm and windows OS that Cingular allows on their network. I have yet to turn on the news and find one of them caused a "downed network".

    If you dont want to support 3rd party apps, then thats fine, but dont come up with crazy excuses to as why.
    01-18-2007 08:29 AM
  17. stroths's Avatar
    Its amazing that anyone would try to compare an iPhone to a Treo on TREOcentral
    01-18-2007 09:37 AM
  18. smileyboy's Avatar
    A few questions. I just read your blog post on the iPhone. A few questions for you.

    1. Why do you think you can't listen to iTunes content?
    2. Why would you need Agendus with the sychronization the iPhone offers with the Mac?
    3. At the end you say, Apple has no iTunes support. What exactly do you mean? You do know it syncs all your content, not just media, through iTunes right?

    Sorry, it just seems that you failed to read up on how this thing worked.
    1. i said that the phone is built for MEDIA. So, logically that would include music. But it doesnt come with a iTunes app.
    2.U don't NEED Adendus on a Treo either. But, it sure is nice
    3.I know it syncs most of the content. But what good is a ipod with a GSM radio built in and no OTA support.....? Doesn't make much sense to me.
    01-18-2007 10:11 AM
  19. cellmatrix's Avatar
    These are devices that need to work, and you cant do that if you load any software on them, he said. That doesnt mean theres not going to be software to buy that you can load on them coming from us. It doesnt mean we have to write it all, but it means it has to be more of a controlled environment.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/12/te...prod=permalink

    This quote from Jobs seems to contradict the prevailing view here and suggests that we will be able to install third party software on the iphone, after it is control tested by apple. Jobs is a perfectionist and I believe has learned enough from the palm example and does not want to repeat it. Look at when the 650 was released, the OS was really buggy, and look at all of the buggy programs we run today, most of this forum in fact is devoted to trying to deal with these bugs.

    There is a lot of good software on the palm that I am a big fan of, but you have to admit there are a lot of crappy buggy palm programs which are misrepresented as finished products which waste people's time and money. It would be nice to have a mechanism to sift through these two categories of programs IMO and I believe that is what Jobs is proposing, we will see.

    Also another misconception brought forward by many here is that the iphone will be mainly a music phone. Its not, the internet and browsing capabilities of the iphone appear to be far beyond what anyone else has especially given the full screen mode.
    01-18-2007 10:49 AM
  20. mobileman's Avatar
    There is a lot of good software on the palm that I am a big fan of, but you have to admit there are a lot of crappy buggy palm programs which are misrepresented as finished products which waste people's time and money. It would be nice to have a mechanism to sift through these two categories of programs IMO and I believe that is what Jobs is proposing, we will see.
    Heres an idea, dont load the bad software. Load the software that works.
    01-18-2007 11:00 AM
  21. smileyboy's Avatar
    LOL isn't that what we try on our treos.
    01-18-2007 11:47 AM
  22. cellmatrix's Avatar
    Heres an idea, dont load the bad software. Load the software that works.
    OK, so how do I know what is bad software and how do I avoid it? Lets look at the current ways:

    1)Look for the software that advertises itself as buggy and avoid it. ha ha, that's a joke of course.

    2) Spend a lot of time browsing thru MTDN or here trying to figure out from the arguments what software is buggy and what is not, and never getting a final answer (I love this software, I hate it, this other software is way better - etc...) until you have to resort to method 3.

    3) trial and error, spend time loading crappy software, having my palm or data screwed up and then deleting the program. Then buying another program to clean up the remnants of the deleted crappy program.

    I do admit I like the idea of the freedom of the Palm system and the concept of open source software development but you have to have a bit of an inner geekness to put up with having to spend time testing programs out yourself. If you like tweaking a lot, then Palm is fine, but if the iphone translates into less time spent tweaking - this will be an appeal to many, including me.
    01-18-2007 01:40 PM
  23. surur's Avatar
    Isn't it rediculous that this is called OSX, when Jobs is so scared of third party apps. Is the OS so fragile then? I would be embarrased if my OS needs to be treated so carefully. The excuses people come up with is just rediculous.

    Surur
    01-18-2007 01:40 PM
  24. cellmatrix's Avatar
    I am not a software developer, but I can sympathize with someone being uncertain how they might capitalize on a new market that is opening up. It must be frustrating. I can also understand that if someone feels excluded from this new market, or sees it as a competitive threat to their current business, that one would want to fight back and do everything they can to try to discredit this new threat. As an outside observer and not a developer myself, its interesting to look at these battles and the strategies that are used - like the way that Microsoft and Apple have competed for these many years.
    01-18-2007 02:14 PM
  25. mobileman's Avatar
    OK, so how do I know what is bad software and how do I avoid it? Lets look at the current ways:

    1)Look for the software that advertises itself as buggy and avoid it. ha ha, that's a joke of course.

    2) Spend a lot of time browsing thru MTDN or here trying to figure out from the arguments what software is buggy and what is not, and never getting a final answer (I love this software, I hate it, this other software is way better - etc...) until you have to resort to method 3.

    3) trial and error, spend time loading crappy software, having my palm or data screwed up and then deleting the program. Then buying another program to clean up the remnants of the deleted crappy program.

    I do admit I like the idea of the freedom of the Palm system and the concept of open source software development but you have to have a bit of an inner geekness to put up with having to spend time testing programs out yourself. If you like tweaking a lot, then Palm is fine, but if the iphone translates into less time spent tweaking - this will be an appeal to many, including me.

    Bottom line though, not one "bad" app that you will load on your palm, will cause the cingular network to go down, as Jobs suggested.
    01-18-2007 02:16 PM
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