1. oalvarez's Avatar
    The treo 680 is the around the same size as the iPhone (give or take a few mms in depth) and only ~ 0.5 ounces heavier with a replaceable battery...I'm sure plenty ppl wouldn't care if the iPhone was a few mm deeper if they coud save $50-80 US in battery replacement fees....
    to clarify: the iPhone is actually almost 1/2 the size in terms of depth (11.6mm iPhone vs 22mm Treo) and a measurable difference in weight when comparing it percentage terms.
    01-16-2007 09:25 PM
  2. Malatesta's Avatar
    By the way, I think its funny that you have to insinuate that Apple's products lose 20% of their battery life each year. This is a ridiculous claim and one that goes against Apple's pensiveness for quality control.
    Spoken like a true believer.

    I didn't say "Apple's products".

    I was referring to LiON batteries in general and if you had clicked the link I provided you would know that. :shake: Do they use some kind of "magic" battery? Did Dear Leader tell you that?

    I even used the qualifier "could" in there.

    Please try harder next time.

    I swear you Apple people are so sensitive. You need to make a "hater" our of everyone despite contrary evidence (like that I own an iPod and a Mac).
    01-16-2007 09:25 PM
  3. archie's Avatar
    well that's what innovation is about... you're assuming you KNOW why they made the battery non-removable i.e. it would cut the size and thus the charge drastically...i don't have the data to say either or, and I'd think no one outside of Apple Inc does either atm.
    I am not assuming. I know that its the reason why. It would be stupid to believe they chose to do this for any other reason. I do not work for Apple and have no inside knowledge.



    I also doubt that making the battery removable will halve its size..are you saying this from professional experience? Because that sounds rather drastic to me. The treo 680 is the around the same size as the iPhone (give or take a few mms in depth) and only ~ 0.5 ounces heavier with a replaceable battery...I'm sure plenty ppl wouldn't care if the iPhone was a few mm deeper if they coud save $50-80 US in battery replacement fees....
    I am not sure what else to say. It seems apparent that you did not read my previous post.
    01-16-2007 09:29 PM
  4. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    They have had this capability since the very first iPod. It has always been there.
    I started with some version of 6 and never noticed it before. Only in 7. Must be the new interface or something. Also my computer only seemed to start noticing the iPod as a drag and drop device after 7.
    01-16-2007 09:37 PM
  5. oalvarez's Avatar
    I usually by new batteries for my Treos/etc at least every 12-16 months.
    would be interesting (just for grins) to see how MANY people buy new batteries (an oem replacement, not an extended one) for their treos, let alone in a 12mo-16mo period. i'd put my money on "not a lot." given my workload none of my Treos ever have lasted beyond a 16 hour day which means a whole hec of a lot of usage and associated charging. maybe that's why mine have never needed a battery replacement. lucky me.
    01-16-2007 09:37 PM
  6. oalvarez's Avatar

    Please try harder next time.

    I swear you Apple people are so sensitive. You need to make a "hater" our of everyone despite contrary evidence (like that I own an iPod and a Mac).
    is this some sort of competition for you?

    looking forward to the release of the iPhone and for someone at Palm to figure out how to make a better device.
    01-16-2007 09:39 PM
  7. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    I was going to buy a new OEM battery(I never trust aftermarket batteries) for my 650 before I decided to stop using it.
    01-16-2007 09:39 PM
  8. kmrivers's Avatar
    Well since comparison was drawn on the 680, and it has a replaceable battery. I put this little thing together.



    It is pretty close to cutting it in half.

    .8 for the 680
    .46 for the iPhone

    ~43% reduction.

    Also note the 680 has:
    1. No Wifi,
    2. No 4 or 8GB of flash
    3. No bluetooth 2.0
    4. .3 MP camera, iPhone has a 2.0MP
    5. No 3.5in display
    6. 4hr battery life, iPhone 5hr
    7. .7 ounces heavier, 680 5.5 ounces, iPhone 4.8 ounces.

    Anyone else want to add to that?
    01-16-2007 09:41 PM
  9. Malatesta's Avatar
    is this some sort of competition for you?
    That post wasn't even addressed to you and yet you still respond! Are you obsessed with me?

    Competition? No, but when someone makes false accusations (I'm slamming all Apple products) how dare I defend and clarify my position b/c they cannot take the time to read?

    Nice. :shake:
    01-16-2007 09:45 PM
  10. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    why is there so much concern over "replacing" a battery? why would the user need to replace the battery? don't batteries last for years? the ones in all of the devices i have ever owned have worked flawlessly in terms of providing a charge over time. i will say this: motorola star-tacs that i owned moons ago did actually need a new battery after some time.

    don't misinterpret: i am speaking about the need to "replace" versus the need to "remove."
    Lithium ion batteries after a year have a shortened battery life.
    01-16-2007 09:46 PM
  11. bruckwine's Avatar
    Let me make myself even clearer...for Me personally the nonremovable battery is what ppl call a dealbreaker...I would NOT want to leave my phone with all my info with anybody, be it Apple ot otherwise - apart from cost it is an issue of security..

    also convenience and safety are real issues considering I will be out of touch with those I need to be unless I have/carry around a backup phone...it's sad that 10 yrs ago this was a nonissue as I didn't even have one, but times have changed lol!

    Anyway as the weight difference between the iPhone and treo 680 is only 0.7 ounces despite the difference in depths i would be willing to take a heavier iPhone if it mean a removable battery - after all they weren't and still aren't under any conviction to keep the phone at 4.8 ounces..it was a design choice not necessity - same with the type of battery.

    For that premium price it shouldn't be as limited as it is imo, and I'll wait on the next generations (like maybe the rumoured 3G version coming 6 months later)....
    01-16-2007 09:47 PM
  12. kmrivers's Avatar
    Let me make myself even clearer...for Me personally the nonremovable battery is what ppl call a dealbreaker...I would NOT want to leave my phone with all my info with anybody, be it Apple ot otherwise - apart from cost it is an issue of security..

    also convenience and safety are real issues considering I will be out of touch with those I need to be unless I have/carry around a backup phone...it's sad that 10 yrs ago this was a nonissue as I didn't even have one, but times have changed lol!

    Anyway as the weight difference between the iPhone and treo 680 is only 0.7 ounces despite the difference in depths i would be willing to take a heavier iPhone if it mean a removable battery - after all they weren't and still aren't under any conviction to keep the phone at 4.8 ounces..it was a design choice not necessity - same with the type of battery.

    For that premium price it shouldn't be as limited as it is imo, and I'll wait on the next generations (like maybe the rumoured 3G version coming 6 months later)....
    It wouldn't be a weight tradeoff, it would be a size tradeoff. You have to add a new layer to shield the internal components, then the connections so you can pop it out. Maybe a door, or perhaps the battery built into the door.

    I don't think there is really a way to keep it at that size without adding something to it.

    I am impressed with what they managed to cram in there. Typical Apple.
    01-16-2007 09:51 PM
  13. archie's Avatar
    I can't believe that people still fail to grasp the engineering feat that Apple has accomplished here in regards to power management and engineering.

    Let's consider the iPhone's size. The iPhone is literally half the size of a Treo (11mm thickness compared to 23mm thickness). Even smaller when compared to the older models.

    Now, what would you imagine the overall space would be that the battery occupies in the new iPhone. Considering the entire size of the phone and the components involved:

    8GB of RAM
    A huge 320 by 480 multi-touch screen
    Quad-band (MHz: 850, 900, 1800, 1900) radio
    Wi-fi
    Bluetooth
    Camera
    Antenna
    Speakerphone
    Headphone jack
    iPod interconnect
    SIM card
    Main processor
    DSP processor
    Multitude of circuit boards

    What kind of room can they possibly have left for a phone. Based on the size of the iPhone, a person would have to imagine that half of it would be dedicated solely to the battery to get 5 hours from it.

    Yet, this is impossible. Look at the list of stuff they have shoved in there (in addition to the bits of electronics I know nothing of that are required for such a device).

    My point is that the battery is quite small and to engineer the ability to allow the user to swap batteries in and out would impact the resulting size to a much greater degree than if for example Palm were to make this same change given the Treos existing size.

    Do you get it? The iPhone's battery would lose a greater overall percentage of its mass to engineer an iPhone design that would allow for a swappable battery because the space to hold the battery is so small to begin with. The iPhone would end up with 2-3 hours of battery life.

    I am glad Apple chose to engineer a built in (non-swapable) battery.

    Besides; the whole idea of making these "smartphones" like a Treo or a Blackberry or the iPhone is to give the advantage of convergence. I will be able to just grab my iPhone and go - not worrying about also unplugging that extra battery pack and carrying that around with me too.
    This is what was on my list earlier in this thread.

    You forgot 8GB of RAM
    CPU (central processor unit)
    DSP (digital signal processor)
    PCB (printed circuit boards)
    and the touch screen controller
    01-16-2007 09:55 PM
  14. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    I have had my iPod for a couple of years. Not one losing any of its advertised battery use yet.

    Of course it has a hard drive so I don't leave it in the glove compartment or in the center console like I suspect your friends did. I say this knowing that the sweltering heat in a car can effect the battery (the battery of anything, including a Treo) just like the hard drive.

    By the way, I think its funny that you have to insinuate that Apple's products lose 20% of their battery life each year. This is a ridiculous claim and one that goes against Apple's pensiveness for quality control.
    Apple already said expect the iPod battery to be replaced at about 18 months. Most people just go ahead and buy a new iPod.
    01-16-2007 09:55 PM
  15. kmrivers's Avatar
    Apple already said expect the iPod battery to be replaced at about 18 months. Most people just go ahead and buy a new iPod.
    I hope they sell the old one. They hold their value well.
    01-16-2007 09:57 PM
  16. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    It wouldn't be a weight tradeoff, it would be a size tradeoff. You have to add a new later to shield the internal compenents, then the connections so you can pop it out. Maybe a door, or perhaps the battery built into the door.

    I don't think there is really a way to keep it at that size without adding something to it.

    I am impressed with what they managed to cram in there. Typical Apple.
    Honestly, if the phone were a little thicker due to having a removable battery, it'd be OK with me!
    01-16-2007 10:00 PM
  17. oalvarez's Avatar
    Lithium ion batteries after a year have a shortened battery life.

    a shortened battery life after a year. what does that mean? are you saying that their capacity/duration of charge becomes lessened? i could understand that, but even then, i personally have never had to replace a battery in any Treo including the blackberries i have owned. from what you say, you did not purchase one but your intentions were to. so i suppose i not ever having to buy one negates you wanting to buy one.

    i still don't think oem batteries are replaced, in Treos (non-680 as it's an outlier), by the general public, within a year's time period. do i really care if they are? not really. why? because with all of the Treo's i've owned (and blackberries) i've never had to.

    not important to me i suppose. i simply don't think it's all that important to so many others especially those non-Treocentral consumers.
    01-16-2007 10:04 PM
  18. oalvarez's Avatar
    valid question: for all of you who don't care about the iPhone (and you know who you are): do you care about the Treo? if so, why spend so much time here in the Apple iPhone forum? kind'a funny that you do.

    looking forward to the release of the iPhone and for Palm to realize that it's the 21st century.
    01-16-2007 10:09 PM
  19. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Let me make myself even clearer...for Me personally the nonremovable battery is what ppl call a dealbreaker...I would NOT want to leave my phone with all my info with anybody, be it Apple ot otherwise - apart from cost it is an issue of security..also convenience and safety are real issues considering I will be out of touch with those I need to be unless I have/carry around a backup phone...it's sad that 10 yrs ago this was a nonissue as I didn't even have one, but times have changed lol!

    Anyway as the weight difference between the iPhone and treo 680 is only 0.7 ounces despite the difference in depths i would be willing to take a heavier iPhone if it mean a removable battery - after all they weren't and still aren't under any conviction to keep the phone at 4.8 ounces..it was a design choice not necessity - same with the type of battery.

    For that premium price it shouldn't be as limited as it is imo, and I'll wait on the next generations (like maybe the rumoured 3G version coming 6 months later)....
    That's a very good point!!
    01-16-2007 10:10 PM
  20. Malatesta's Avatar
    valid question: for all of you who don't care about the iPhone (and you know who you are): do you care about the Treo? if so, why spend so much time here in the Apple iPhone forum? kind'a funny that you do.
    Start a new thread.

    This is off topic as it has nothing to do with why we think the iPhone sucks.
    01-16-2007 10:11 PM
  21. oalvarez's Avatar
    from popular science just in case it doesn't come with a replaceable battery and all else remains constant:

    how to replace an ipod battery:

    http://web.archive.org/web/200407221...8084-2,00.html
    01-16-2007 10:14 PM
  22. oalvarez's Avatar
    Start a new thread.

    This is off topic as it has nothing to do with why we think the iPhone sucks.
    no need to. the message has already been delivered. thanks for the suggestion though.

    01-16-2007 10:16 PM
  23. NextDream's Avatar
    valid question: for all of you who don't care about the iPhone (and you know who you are): do you care about the Treo? if so, why spend so much time here in the Apple iPhone forum? kind'a funny that you do.

    looking forward to the release of the iPhone and for Palm to realize that it's the 21st century.
    This is a good question. I had a horrible experience with a 700P but i'm not in that forum talking sh__ about what a horrible POS it is. I wonder if a "Top the reasons I hate the 700P" or "No multi-Tasking on the 700P" thread would actually be allowed.
    01-17-2007 04:15 PM
  24. Certs's Avatar
    This is a good question. I had a horrible experience with a 700P but i'm not in that forum talking sh__ about what a horrible POS it is. I wonder if a "Top the reasons I hate the 700P" or "No multi-Tasking on the 700P" thread would actually be allowed.
    The name of this website says TREO in it, yet you choose THIS forum to spend your time. And your asking US why that is????? Unreal...

    I like this forum because it actually has some good discussion (despite the cheap shots and occasional dumb questions), and the arguments are a good read sometimes!

    And we are not TREO lovers because they are treo's, we are "treo lovers" because we love what the treo does. And if Apple were to make a phone that did those things better, we'd ALL buy it.
    01-17-2007 04:32 PM
  25. Malatesta's Avatar
    This is a good question. I had a horrible experience with a 700P but i'm not in that forum talking sh__ about what a horrible POS it is. I wonder if a "Top the reasons I hate the 700P" or "No multi-Tasking on the 700P" thread would actually be allowed.
    Here's yours too...



    Seriously, you done yet?

    Why does it suck?

    Sprint 700p. the "p" stands for piece of s***

    Sprint Sucks

    AGGGHHH!! Bye-bye 700p...


    Bluetooth Activesync Sucks on Treo

    Treo 650 SIGNAL sucks!!!!

    My Verizon Treo Kind of Sucks
    01-17-2007 04:37 PM
102 ... 2345
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD