IPhone, the Final Treo Killer

[surur]

FYI, my HTC Universal has an ambient light sensor, to decide if the keyboard needs to be illuminated or not. Its not exactly new tech, its been around since at least 2002 (my Loox 600).

Regarding full scale browser, what does that exactly mean. We dont know how much of the web the IPhone browser supports. The Safari browser currently also runs on the Nokia Symbian phones, and are also said to be rather good. Netfront has excellent javascript support. Opera mobile renders full screen very well. Minimo (mozilla for windows mobile) is very much a full grown browser. Does safari even have a single column mode so you dont have to fiddle with the page all the time, or is that too retro for Jobs?

Browsing the internet while on the phone will only work while using WIFI, unlike what would happen if you had UMTS.

Widgets as apps are just nonsense. Widgets are just javascript, and Apple wont allow 3rd parties to even author these freely.

The sensor controlling rotating the screen takes the place of a simple button which could have done the same job cheaper and more reliably, not to mention landscape mode for all apps, not just the ones Jobs chooses.

The IPhone is much less innovative than you think.

Surur

 

[specimen38]

Why so skeptical my friend?

FYI, my HTC Universal has an ambient light sensor, one sensor to decide if the keyboard needs to be illuminated or not. Its not exactly new tech, its been around since at least 2002 (my Loox 600).

Regarding full scale browser, what does that exactly mean. It means everything your desktop browser can do it does. And I know from personal experience what Safari does on a desktop. We dont know how much of the web the IPhone browser supports. The Safari browser currently also runs on the Nokia Symbian phones, and are also said to be rather good. Netfront has excellent javascript support. Opera mobile renders full screen very well. On what what phone or phones? What size is the screen of that phone does Opera perform this function? Minimo (mozilla for windows mobile) is very much a full grown browser. Does safari even have a single column mode During the presentation you saw (I am assuming you saw the keynote) -- multitouch technology was introduced for that.. so you dont have to fiddle with the page all the time, or is that too retro for Jobs?

Browsing the internet while on the phone will only work while using WIFI, I'll take it unlike what would happen if you had UMTS.

Widgets as apps are just nonsense. Microsoft does not seem to think so. They'll be in Vista. Widgets are just javascript, and Apple wont allow 3rd parties to even author these freely. "What about 3rd party developers and the iPhone?" The old components approach is dependent on 3rd parties to write software that you have to continually upgrade when the OS upgrades while no one takes responsibility when things don't work together. The end to end approach increases the liklihood working software by providing a suite of base (killer app) products that work before a device is sold. I am certain Apple will invite the 3rd party developers into the "party" at an appropriate time when it can be certain bugs can be isolated in on a stable OS and reduced to a minimal, which makes the customer experience so much better.

The sensor controlling rotating the screen takes the place of a simple button which could have done the same job cheaper ....cheaper are the devices that lack imagination and innovation. and more reliably, not to mention landscape mode for all apps, not just the ones Jobs chooses.

The IPhone is much less innovative than you think. I don't think you understand!

Surur

You mentioned HTC, Nokia, Symbian, Netfront, Minimo and I only mentioned one device with everything integrated on it. iPhone baby!

 

[bruckwine]

my question..is visual voicemail an innovation or a service that was well overdue? wrt iPhone I really see two real innovations - multi-touch and... well uh that's it.
The browser bit I can't say is real innovation either but it IS a bold step - there's a reason most phones don't use full webpages..not cause they couldn't use that kind of browser witht heir hardware, but simply the screen size of anything that can fit in one palm/hand makes scrolling a pain pretty or not..imagine readding this forum with 10-20 post per page on a 4 " screen..might be cool using the finger scroll but also pretty tiresome after a while...imo it doesn't really matter unless and that is probably the key the pics mean more than the words ont eh page.
A widget is still just an application by another name - it's not true innovation to move something( first done back in the 80s - maybe "porting" it to mac was innovative?!) for the same basic system used on desktops (OS X) from one device to another e.g. desktop to laptop.
The iPhone will be great but despite what one may want to believe the only real innovation (apart from HOW you interact with the touchscreen) has been the combination of the features and not the features themselves. It'll create a better market though hopefully!

 

[specimen38]

my question..is visual voicemail an innovation or a service that was well overdue?

Probably both. No other company out there was thinking. I bet everyone will have on their next product iteration.

 

[whmurray]

FYI, my HTC Universal has an ambient light sensor, to decide if the keyboard needs to be illuminated or not. Its not exactly new tech, its been around since at least 2002 (my Loox 600).

Regarding full scale browser, what does that exactly mean. We dont know how much of the web the IPhone browser supports. The Safari browser currently also runs on the Nokia Symbian phones, and are also said to be rather good. Netfront has excellent javascript support. Opera mobile renders full screen very well. Minimo (mozilla for windows mobile) is very much a full grown browser. Does safari even have a single column mode so you dont have to fiddle with the page all the time, or is that too retro for Jobs?

Browsing the internet while on the phone will only work while using WIFI, unlike what would happen if you had UMTS.

Widgets as apps are just nonsense. Widgets are just javascript, and Apple wont allow 3rd parties to even author these freely.

The sensor controlling rotating the screen takes the place of a simple button which could have done the same job cheaper and more reliably, not to mention landscape mode for all apps, not just the ones Jobs chooses.

The IPhone is much less innovative than you think.

Surur

Tsk. Tsk.

 

[kmrivers]

FYI, my HTC Universal has an ambient light sensor, to decide if the keyboard needs to be illuminated or not. Its not exactly new tech, its been around since at least 2002 (my Loox 600).

Regarding full scale browser, what does that exactly mean. We dont know how much of the web the IPhone browser supports. The Safari browser currently also runs on the Nokia Symbian phones, and are also said to be rather good. Netfront has excellent javascript support. Opera mobile renders full screen very well. Minimo (mozilla for windows mobile) is very much a full grown browser. Does safari even have a single column mode so you dont have to fiddle with the page all the time, or is that too retro for Jobs?

1. Browsing the internet while on the phone will only work while using WIFI, unlike what would happen if you had UMTS.

2. Widgets as apps are just nonsense. Widgets are just javascript, and Apple wont allow 3rd parties to even author these freely.

3. The sensor controlling rotating the screen takes the place of a simple button which could have done the same job cheaper and more reliably, not to mention landscape mode for all apps, not just the ones Jobs chooses.

The IPhone is much less innovative than you think.

Surur

1. What a silly statement. So the EDGE isn't there huh? Guess Apple lied. And I am sure you have used it and you would know it doesn't work at all.

Not working is different then "not working the way I would like it to." Just because it isn't fast does not mean it doesnt work. I don't mean to get into the semantics of this, but even you can admit that is a stupid statement to make.

2. Widgets as apps are far from nonsense. In fact, right now I have a dictionary and a calculator. I am guessing you think the calculator app in windows isn't really an app right? Widgets can be games, are games not apps? I enjoy how you downplay it. With the introduction of dashcode in leopard making widgets will be easy for everyone. Anyhow. The future of 3rd party is unknown, so you can't propagate such a concrete statement on zero facts. At this point, it will be a more regulated system. No one has said "NO!." Until that happens try not to spread lies to downplay the phone.

3. Nice of you to down play the tech. Why not have a sensor replace someone have to press a button? And again I am sure you have used it enough to know how reliable it is correct? Landscape for all apps? Why? All the apps don't need landscape, how could landscape make my contacts list better? Maybe it could give me the contacts with their picture on the right, and maybe they will do that. Part of innovation is knowing how far to take it. Yeah it is a nice feature if everything flips to landscape but whats the point? Unless there is a real purpose. It seems like you are reaching a bit now, because this is truely a nitpick.

 

[Certs]

What a silly statement. So the EDGE isn't there huh? Guess Apple lied. And I am sure you have used it and you would know it doesn't work at all.

Not working is different then "not working the way I would like it to." Just because it isn't fast does not mean it doesnt work. I don't mean to get into the semantics of this, but even you can admit that is a stupid statement to make.

He said it will not work WHEN YOU'RE ON THE PHONE, which is no lie.

This phone not having 3G (coming from someone who uses 3g) is a shame. Apple is not giving the phone the capability to perform to its full potential. That's a fact, not opinion. I guess they feel that it will not be enough of a deal-breaker for consumers, and we'll find out in half an annum if they are right.

 

[kmrivers]

He said it will not work WHEN YOU'RE ON THE PHONE, which is no lie.

This phone not having 3G (coming from someone who uses 3g) is a shame. Apple is not giving the phone the capability to perform to its full potential. That's a fact, not opinion. I guess they feel that it will not be enough of a deal-breaker for consumers, and we'll find out in half an annum if they are right.

You are correct my bad. I misread that. I apologize surur, don't flame me

Lack of 3G is a shame. Which will have me waiting most likely. Unless they cram it in. You have to remember the market here though, the people who they are aiming for to some degree have probably never had a phone where they browse the web. For them, they may not even know any better. How many people really understand cell networks and the roadmaps for them? Not many I am guessing.

Plus, 3G coverage for Cingular is pretty weak. I can't get it. My Sprint contract isnt up until 2008. By that time, I hope 3G is here and iPhone has it. I can't see the iPhone going too far into '08 without 3G. Especially since they will be hitting Europe and Asia.

 

[oalvarez]

The IPhone is much less innovative than you think.

Surur

cool. i'll wait until the final version is released and in my hands to determine how innovative it is or it is not, for my needs.

thanks for the commentary though

 

[whmurray]

He said it will not work WHEN YOU'RE ON THE PHONE, which is no lie.

This phone not having 3G (coming from someone who uses 3g) is a shame. Apple is not giving the phone the capability to perform to its full potential. That's a fact, not opinion. I guess they feel that it will not be enough of a deal-breaker for consumers, and we'll find out in half an annum if they are right.

I expect Wi-Fi, EDGE, and Safari to be an improvement over EDGE and Blazer, which is what I have now.

 

[Certs]

I expect Wi-Fi, EDGE, and Safari to be an improvement over EDGE and Blazer, which is what I have now.

I totally agree, but remember that EDGE and BLAZER came out like 4 years ago, maybe more.

That's how far behind the Palm Operating System is. Flip phones can use 3G, and ALP's OS cannot. So embarassing. (Can't blame Palm for that one, it hasn't been their operating system for a few years now. They just build phones to run it). Even if they advance the OS to use it (since they recently reaquired it), that is going to take a LONG time

 

[samkim]

Innovation #5 - iPhone is first cell device in history to introduce a full scale browser which displays a full page (not a scaled down wap page).

Picsel Browser displays a full page on the Treo. Pretty useless though. You can zoom in on any part of the page, but it's much easier using cellphone-optimized webpages.

Picsel also has flick-and-scroll and flashy animations.

Innovation #6 - iPhone is first cell device in history to employ widgets as applications.

The "widgets" on the iPhone seem to be just applications that you launch. How are they different from other cellphone applications, aside from the shiny icons?

How about some non-innovations that we Treo users would love to have?

1) WIFI Yes
2) 4 or 8 Gigabytes Memory Yes
3) iPod (and cover flow technology to view our music) Don't need
4) MacOS X (i.e. multi-threaded/multi-tasking operating system) Yes
5) Ability to browse internet while talking on the phone (really important to me on a personal level) Don't need
6) Better volume on calls Never had a problem with volume on my Treo 650
7) Ability to sync a Macintosh or PC iTunes, Address book and files Don't need to sync iTunes; already can sync Outlook and DocsToGo

 

[samkim]

The future of 3rd party is unknown, so you can't propagate such a concrete statement on zero facts. At this point, it will be a more regulated system. No one has said "NO!." Until that happens try not to spread lies to downplay the phone.

He said, "Apple wont allow 3rd parties to even author these freely." This is true. Jobs said that IF third-parties are allowed to develop apps, they will be controlled.

 

[samkim]

iPods work as advertised.

The battery on my iPod lasts a couple hours max on a full charge. And the drive makes noises.

 

[cjdaniel]

speaking of light sensors, there used to be an app that controlled the lights and keyboard lights and even ringing via the built in Treo light sensor, the camera, what happened to that?

 

[surur]

I forgot about the sensor which detected when I flip and twist the screen and automatically rotates the screen from portrait to landscape. It never even occurred to me that its amazingly innovative, but I guess a micro-switch is these days. Or the sensor on the Wizard and Hermes which detects when you open the keyboard and does its "magic" and actually makes ALL the apps landscape.

Surur

 

[specimen38]

Samkins,

We please consider the following:

Innovation #5 - iPhone is first cell device in history to introduce a full scale browser which displays a full page (not a scaled down wap page).

Picsel Browser displays a full page on the Treo. Pretty useless though. You can zoom in on any part of the page, but it's much easier using cellphone-optimized webpages. Picsel is a product you purchase for $30 by a 3rd party developer. No phone has introduced a full scale browser. Re-read innovation #5. It comes standard with iPhone.
Picsel also has flick-and-scroll and flashy animations.

Innovation #6 - iPhone is first cell device in history to employ widgets as applications.

The "widgets" on the iPhone seem to be just applications that you launch. How are they different from other cellphone applications, aside from the shiny icons? One Huge Difference: PDA owners can write their own custom applications with ease free of charge and not be at the mercy of, or waiting on some 3rd party developers to do it.

1) WIFI Yes
2) 4 or 8 Gigabytes Memory Yes
3) iPod (and cover flow technology to view our music) Don't need
4) MacOS X (i.e. multi-threaded/multi-tasking operating system) Yes
5) Ability to browse internet while talking on the phone (really important to me on a personal level) Don't need This would be a power user's feature.
6) Better volume on calls Never had a problem with volume on my Treo 650 Because the iPhone is also an iPod - much attention has been given to sound quality output. Any phone call would have available to it the sound quality optimizing abilities of the iPod.
7) Ability to sync a Macintosh or PC iTunes, Address book and files Don't need to sync iTunes; already can sync Outlook and DocsToGo Forgone conclusion, you don't need an iPod, so you'd never sync iTunes. We're all syncing Outlook and DocsToGo.

 

[surur]

SO you just need one phone to ship with picsel browser and Jobs would be a liar?

Surur

 

[marcol]

The sensor controlling rotating the screen takes the place of a simple button which could have done the same job cheaper and more reliably

I forgot about the sensor which detected when I flip and twist the screen and automatically rotates the screen from portrait to landscape. It never even occurred to me that its amazingly innovative, but I guess a micro-switch is these days.

Without sensor: 1) push the button, 2) turn the device, 3) use.
With sensor: 1) turn the device, 2) use.

Seems perfectly reasonable to me. Saves one step, means you don't have to have a hard button cluttering up the device or an on-screen button cluttering up the screen.

If Apple did this first then it's an innovation. Not a massive one, but quite nice all the same. Not all innovations have to change the world.

Or the sensor on the Wizard and Hermes which detects when you open the keyboard and does its "magic" and actually makes ALL the apps landscape.

Also seems like a good idea. You'd rather it wasn't automatic and you had to push a button too?

 

[marcol]

Browsing the internet while on the phone will only work while using WIFI, unlike what would happen if you had UMTS.

Baffled. Do you have anything to support this statement? The S60 Webkit-based browser works perfectly with a GPRS connection, excepting that it's rather slow because it spends a lot of time waiting for data.

Don't get me wrong, I think not having a 3G radio is a major negative for the iPhone. If they released it like that in the UK (where there's almost no EDGE) then it would be a deal killer for many (probably including me). But to say Safari on the iPhone won't work with GPRS or EDGE? You didn't really mean this, right?