1. surur's Avatar
    People may have gotten the impression that I am anti-Iphone, but to me it is a pretty desirable device, not a replacement for my smartphone, but something I would give to a family member so I can secretly play with it myself (but wife does not want it as it cant do GPS )

    Anyway, here in UK the Iphone is still a very long way of, but Iphone copycats may get here sooner. How do you think the Iphone would (or should) influence the designs of others. My short list are:

    1) Larger screens with smaller borders.
    2) much more flash storage.
    3) Thinner designs (already happening)
    4) less emphasis on the need for keyboards (that was the fashion of 2006 (Moto Q, E61, SE M600, Treo, Blackjack, Dash etc).
    5) More consumer friendly, less business-like design.
    6) More scrolling options.
    7) Possibly more flashy software, but possibly not as soon,as hardware seems easier to modify than software.


    What do people think? How will the Iphone change the industry.

    Surur
    01-13-2007 09:22 PM
  2. samkim's Avatar
    Good list.


    Here are some more predictions:

    Touch screens will become much more common. And without styluses.

    I think a few more companies will try the near-buttonless face (LG already has one); it'll catch on, but most people will want at least a keypad.

    Future versions of Windows Mobile, Symbian, and ALP will have flashier interfaces.

    Most phones will eventually be able to sync music, photos, calendar, and contacts with the PC.

    There will be standardization of random access voicemail across carriers.

    The iPhone's high price will increase people's willingness to pay for a phone amd will give other manufacturers leeway to invest in more features. The average cost of manufacturing a phone will rise.

    We'll see a glossy black device from Palm within the next 18 months.
    01-13-2007 10:10 PM
  3. Mtreosexual's Avatar
    Apple has shown all these things can be done . 'The engineers & software developers at Palm and otehr manufacturers need to find some other excuse.
    01-14-2007 10:25 AM
  4. surur's Avatar
    Of course it can be done. Apple is however also making excuses about third party apps. They could have sandboxed apps like the blackberries do for example.

    Surur
    01-14-2007 10:41 AM
  5. Malatesta's Avatar
    I'm thinking that this will open up the market for more "luxury" type smartphones, with high resolution screens, real slick design, etc.

    For better or worse, I'm a guy, so all of these aesthetic arguments about the iPhone don't really hold much water with me. I don't really care if my phone looks like a mangled toaster or is a svelte slab as long as it does what I need it to do. For me the iphone is a lot of looks but little substance.

    As far as the OS: more emphasis on usability and design once again.

    We'll also probably see lots of 'copycat' designs, though with Steve's penchant for suing anything and everything that even looks like it saw an iPhone, it'll be tough (evidently, he has a lock on icons on the home screen)
    01-14-2007 12:24 PM
  6. whmurray's Avatar
    Apple has shown all these things can be done . 'The engineers & software developers at Palm and otehr manufacturers need to find some other excuse.
    Palm does not make excuses.
    01-14-2007 08:53 PM
  7. Tastypeppers's Avatar
    Palm does not make excuses? That's not the only thing Palm does not make.
    01-14-2007 09:20 PM
  8. Chatter's Avatar
    A real keyboard will be a necessity for many users; there's no touchscreen technology that will change that.

    Marc
    01-14-2007 10:04 PM
  9. Certs's Avatar
    I think this will motivate MS to make there mobile OS more graphically appealing. More Vista-like. 3D, higher res, etc etc.

    Just a side note, MS does already cater to high res, but manufacturers claim they are too expensive to put in a phone and maintain a moderate price. I hope this changes that philosophy...
    01-14-2007 10:35 PM
  10. MacUser's Avatar
    there's no touchscreen technology that will change that.

    Marc
    It's tough to knock it till you've tried it. Let's wait till we have the opportunity to try the NEW touchscreen technology, and then make that claim.
    01-14-2007 10:58 PM
  11. surur's Avatar
    I think this will motivate MS to make there mobile OS more graphically appealing. More Vista-like. 3D, higher res, etc etc.

    Just a side note, MS does already cater to high res, but manufacturers claim they are too expensive to put in a phone and maintain a moderate price. I hope this changes that philosophy...
    Crossbow will already have more polish than WM5, and Photon (2008) is apparently very IPhone like (according to the Engadget team, who have seen it).

    It is really unfortunate that MS will be accused of copying Apple when they have been showing around the OS for months now.
    http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=12490

    Surur
    01-15-2007 02:28 AM
  12. marcol's Avatar
    Crossbow will already have more polish than WM5, and Photon (2008) is apparently very IPhone like (according to the Engadget team, who have seen it).
    I can't seem to find the article on the Engadget site and would be grateful for the link.

    Anyway (and at the risk of being completely contradicted by what's in the Engadget piece ), I'm finding it a bit hard to believe that photon will replicate the iPhone UI in important ways:

    1) Finger-based navigation. One of the defining features of the iPhone UI is not just that it's based on touch-screen input, it's that you use your finger as the pointing device. It's obviously possible that Microsoft could go someway down this route, but I'm doubtful they'd go the whole way to the point that OEMs will be shipping devices without a stylus, menu buttons, and a five-way navigator. To do that you'd have to be very sure that every app that will ever run on the device won't need those forms of input, and that would require massive redesigns of nearly all third-party software. In fact, it's probable that however clever you are, some tasks (and thus the apps that allow you to perform them) simply aren't suitable for finger-based input.

    I suppose it might be that Microsoft will have some sort of halfway-house solution: the basic functions (phone, launching apps, etc) and at least aspects of the the bundled apps would be finger-based, but stylus/button/navigator input would still be supported to allow easier transition for developers and the support of apps that really aren't suitable for finger-based input. For some users ('power users') that might be a best-of-both-worlds solution, but for others, it would probably just add confusion. It would also mean of course that OEMs would still need to build devices with a stylus, menu buttons and a navigator - hardly an elegant state of affairs.

    2) It seems unlikely to me that Microsoft will remove some of the familiar things that people like, such as the Today screen and the Start Menu.
    01-15-2007 05:20 AM
  13. surur's Avatar
    Its from the last Engadget Podcast. They do not give any details. Its a pity MS will be accused of copying Apple when they have been showing around the OS for a long time now.

    It does not have to be an exact copy, just software with a similar level of pizazz. It seems many people that have seen Photon were impressed. The Iphone UI is certainly impressive, so for it to be seen as being on the same level is encouraging at least.
    http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=12490

    I think the finger based UI is bunk in any case. Just because Jobs is doing it does not mean everyone should copy him.

    Surur
    01-15-2007 05:30 AM
  14. marcol's Avatar
    Its from the last Engadget Podcast. They do not give any details.
    Thanks. That'll be the one I fell asleep listening to

    Its a pity MS will be accused of copying Apple when they have been showing around the OS for a long time now.
    I don't think any sensible observer will accuse them of copying unless it becomes known (from those who've seen a preview) that it's changed to be much more iPhone-like since it was last shown.

    It does not have to be an exact copy, just software with a similar level of pizazz.
    So nicer graphical abilities, prettier icons, transitions, animations, etc? I hope so. I've used Palm OS, WM5 (not for very long), and S60 in the last few months and they all look rather dull and sterile (not to mention cluttered, messy and just plain ugly) compared to what we've seen so far of the iPhone UI. But really that's not the most important thing to my mind:

    I think the finger based UI is bunk in any case.
    I think the finger-based UI is the most distinctive and radical thing about the iPhone. It's a bold move for sure. The question is, is it any good?

    I've been trying to think about this by trying to think of similar things I've used in the past. There aren't a lot, but the one that first comes to mind is TomTom on the Treo 650. The UI for this app replicates that of the company's personal navigation devices, which is designed to be navigated by tapping the touch-screen with a finger while in a car. Although I disliked the fact that this form of input was completely different to everything else on the 650, I found the 'tap a big icon with a finger' input to be extremely efficient and easy to do. I particularly liked it that options are visible on the screen and not hidden way in an invisible menu. In the car the device is mounted on the dash, but even holding the 650 I had no problem using most of the TomTom functions one-handed (tapping the icons with a a thumb). So, the icon/onscreen button tapping thing on the iPhone should be just fine (for me at least).

    Of course, there is more to finger input on the iPhone than just tapping icons and it's not clear how easy other aspects will be. Scrolling I'd guess will be fine (actually, I think from what we've seen it looks really good). Similarly the zoom in, zoom out, pinch gesture thing looks very sweet, but how about:

    1) Picking out a link on a web page, especially when there are other links nearby (for instance the page navigation links, < 1 2 3 > etc, in a forum like this)? You'd have to imagine that this would be difficult.* Apple may well be able to make every option in every one of their apps to be tappable or gesture controllable but they certainly can't control the content of every web page.

    2) Entering text without tactile feedback? Will it really be able to compete with a physical QWERTY keyboard? Only time will tell but it may well be that this device isn't for those who enter lots of text. Still, unless it's truly terrible it should be much better than T9.

    3) Moving around entered text to make edits? If you have to precisely tap the point of the edit, this could be awful. On the other hand, if there's some clever way to move though text using scroll-like gestures this could be very quick and intuitive.

    4) Deleting a word in text? Highlighting text, copying and pasting? Again, this could be good or bad depending on how well it's implemented.

    Just because Jobs is doing it does not mean everyone should copy him.
    Whether copying is desirable or not rather depends on how well Apple have executed. I don't sensibly see how we can judge this at this time.

    EDIT: *I guess to some extent this depends on how much zooming the ZUI allows. Even if it's a lot though having to zoom for each and every closely-packed link would still seem to be a pain.
    01-15-2007 07:44 AM
  15. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    When's Crossbow coming officially?
    01-15-2007 08:29 AM
  16. marcol's Avatar
    When's Crossbow coming officially?
    Not sure about 'officially', but 'late Q1/early Q2 2007' according to this:

    http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/10..._screens_leak/

    Says Photon a year later.
    01-15-2007 08:46 AM
  17. CGK#IM's Avatar
    I know someone on the "team" and it's looking more like Q3.

    For those who don't know much about crossbow - here's a rundown:

    http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/art...ssbow-en.shtml
    01-15-2007 08:50 AM
  18. surur's Avatar
    Crossbow is already Released To Manufacturers. I guess June= Q3, but middle of the year sounds closer than that.

    Surur
    01-15-2007 09:28 AM
  19. Malatesta's Avatar
    Crossbow is already Released To Manufacturers. I guess June= Q3, but middle of the year sounds closer than that.

    Surur
    It's suppose to drop Q2 and the Samsung i760 on Verizon should be the 1st with it:

    http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2006/1...the-blackjack/
    01-15-2007 11:08 AM
  20. marcol's Avatar
    Back on topic.

    How do you think the Iphone would (or should) influence the designs of others. My short list are:

    1) Larger screens with smaller borders.
    If by smaller borders you mean smaller black bits around the edges that do nothing, I hope the answer is yes. Doesn't really take Apple to tell OEMs these are a bad idea though. Nokia seem to have worked this out already: my E61 has almost none.

    'Larger screens' is a bit more of a conundrum. Apple managed to do this (and keep the device small) by eliminating all but one button from the front of the device and could only do so because the UI is designed for a single button. I wouldn't expect to see one button S60, WM5 or POS devices anytime soon because that would require pretty hefty OS/UI redesign. A WM5 device, for example, really needs at least nine buttons on the front to be effective (up, down, left, right, select, Start menu, OK, two buttons mapped to screen menus). One button might be possible with UIQ.

    2) much more flash storage.
    Would be good. 16 GB by the end of the year? I can dream

    3) Thinner designs (already happening)
    Not just thinner but probably a general trend to smoother and sexier. HTC are heading that way with the P3300 and I wouldn't be surprised to see something even more svelte from them within the next twelve months. It's about time they made a sexy consumer device. Whatever happened to the Melody?

    4) less emphasis on the need for keyboards (that was the fashion of 2006 (Moto Q, E61, SE M600, Treo, Blackjack, Dash etc).
    Only likely if Apple manage to demonstrate that you really don't need one even for heavy text entry? Doubtful in my view, at least for a while.

    5) More consumer friendly, less business-like design.
    Nokia smartphones are mainly consumer oriented already and they're most of the market. Presumably they're not perceived as unfriendly by those that buy them. Here's a pretty one :

    http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/..._5MP_Camer.php

    6) More scrolling options.
    We already have a gazillion different four-way navigators, joysticks, track balls, scroll wheels etc plus good ol' dragging-the-scroll-bar-with-a-stylus and the occasional appearance of a cursor. Scrolling la iPhone, however, would probably require OS support, at least if it's to be system wide, so, again, this might take some time. Seems like a fine idea though.

    7) Possibly more flashy software, but possibly not as soon,as hardware seems easier to modify than software.
    Agreed.

    What do people think? How will the Iphone change the industry.
    3.5 mm headphone jacks will be standard - hurrah
    01-15-2007 12:12 PM
  21. CGK#IM's Avatar
    Back on topic.

    Agreed.

    3.5 mm headphone jacks will be standard - hurrah
    I hope so - it's one of my few complaints with the nokia (well before I got a proper media player) - pop-port headphones. Who wants to play around with various adapters? not me!
    01-15-2007 12:18 PM
  22. marcol's Avatar
    I hope so - it's one of my few complaints with the nokia (well before I got a proper media player) - pop-port headphones.!
    Ridiculous things. I swear the pop-port adaptor is bigger than the 8 GB nano I just bought.
    01-15-2007 12:30 PM
  23. surur's Avatar
    I am thinking scroll bars like the T-Mobile Dash, on the top and side of the screen, basically moving the scroll bars of the screen, and meaning you could scroll easily with your finger.

    Surur
    01-15-2007 01:01 PM
  24. skfny's Avatar
    People may have gotten the impression that I am anti-Iphone, but to me it is a pretty desirable device, not a replacement for my smartphone, but something I would give to a family member so I can secretly play with it myself (but wife does not want it as it cant do GPS )

    Anyway, here in UK the Iphone is still a very long way of, but Iphone copycats may get here sooner. How do you think the Iphone would (or should) influence the designs of others. My short list are:

    1) Larger screens with smaller borders.
    2) much more flash storage.
    3) Thinner designs (already happening)
    4) less emphasis on the need for keyboards (that was the fashion of 2006 (Moto Q, E61, SE M600, Treo, Blackjack, Dash etc).
    5) More consumer friendly, less business-like design.
    6) More scrolling options.
    7) Possibly more flashy software, but possibly not as soon,as hardware seems easier to modify than software.


    What do people think? How will the Iphone change the industry.

    Surur
    #1,2,3,6,7: ok
    4,5: I truly hope manufacturers don't follow the iPhone in this regard. If most do, those that are outside the reality distortion field should clean up among business users.
    01-15-2007 03:35 PM
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