1. newtonjack's Avatar
    The iPhone will be a mulit-year exclusive with Cingular.

    Multi-year! Think about that, what do you think Sprint and Verizon are gonna do? Just sit back and watch?

    I believe Sprint and/or Verizon have or will make a deal with Palm to produce a competing product, perhaps that is what the next big thing is. Palm could easily make a similar if not better looking device. Look at the Lifedrive it looks a lot like the iPhone except thicker, and Palm was developing that more than 2 years ago. And software you say? The os x is better? This is where Microsoft steps in and helps in that area.

    Palm could make this device and Verizon/Sprint subsidize the cost to make it cheaper than the iPhone.

    No way Microsoft, Verizon and Sprint and gonna take this iPhone threat lying down.
    01-11-2007 11:03 PM
  2. MacUser's Avatar
    How long do you think before Palm "stands-up" and does something about it?
    01-11-2007 11:09 PM
  3. newtonjack's Avatar
    How long do you think before Palm "stands-up" and does something about it?
    Remember Sept 06? Palm did the unthinkable, teamed with Microsoft and Verizon to produce the 700W which everyone said would never happen. This same treo (hah) may be at work as we speak to fight the iPhone.
    01-11-2007 11:16 PM
  4. sinebubble's Avatar
    Remember Sept 06? Palm did the unthinkable, teamed with Microsoft and Verizon to produce the 700W which everyone said would never happen. This same treo (hah) may be at work as we speak to fight the iPhone.
    Gee, maybe a new phone running PalmOS v 5.4.9.1? I'm not even sure if Colbalt would be much of an announcement anymore...
    01-11-2007 11:39 PM
  5. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Palm COULD. But I bet they don't. All they keep saying is their model works and nothing else really does. As long at they're in that mode, nothing's going to change.
    01-12-2007 06:21 AM
  6. MacUser's Avatar
    Palm COULD. But I bet they don't. All they keep saying is their model works and nothing else really does. As long at they're in that mode, nothing's going to change.
    /agreed.
    01-12-2007 06:46 AM
  7. surur's Avatar
    To really answer this device. Microsoft need only do one thing - integrate their PMP interface with Windows Mobile. They should have done this years ago (and many people said so) but they stubbornly refused to do this, until Apple one-upped them. Take a look at the interface - a slightly fancier version is in the Zune.



    I suggest they move the scroll lines to the side of the screens (top and side) like they currently have on the T-Mobile Dash, and in this way they would copy much of the functionality of the IPhone without infringing on any patents.

    The proximity sensor on the IPhone is just fluff. The multi-touch screen is cool, but also not essential. The web browser is nice, but I think PIE and Opera is good enough on WM. What they need, and what the main appeal of the Iphone is, is a great media player. Microsoft already has the code developed and out there, so it should be only the work of a few months to integrate it.

    If they do it now they will have a chance to make an Iphone-like device to sell to the rest of the world, while Apple is stuck with Cingular. Maybe it wont be as great as the Iphone in the areas where it excels, but much like the Razr knock-off's which are now taking over the world (e.g. the LG devices) they will satisfy the majority at half the price, while having greater functionality like being able to run third party software.

    The solution is simple, and even Palm could do it. It remains to be seen if anyone will rise to the challenge, or if they are going to wait and see how well the Iphone is received before throwing their own hat in the ring.

    Surur
    01-12-2007 07:41 AM
  8. treoneo's Avatar
    I hate palm & I hate my treo
    01-12-2007 07:47 AM
  9. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    MSFT could get to work on that Zune phone they were talking about! At least they might move faster than Palm will!
    01-12-2007 08:23 AM
  10. surur's Avatar
    MSFT could get to work on that Zune phone they were talking about! At least they might move faster than Palm will!
    The Zune phone will have the same problem the Iphone has, being that it will be a closed system without third party apps. For the majority the simplicity of this is a plus I guess, but for me its a deliberately crippled system. You have the potential of a general purpose device without being able to take advantage of it e.g. with a large screen and 8 GB of storage the Iphone would make a great GPS device, but as there is no third party apps this potential is wasted. Not so with a real Smartphone however.

    Surur
    01-12-2007 08:35 AM
  11. skfny's Avatar
    The Zune phone will have the same problem the Iphone has, being that it will be a closed system without third party apps. For the majority the simplicity of this is a plus I guess, but for me its a deliberately crippled system. You have the potential of a general purpose device without being able to take advantage of it e.g. with a large screen and 8 GB of storage the Iphone would make a great GPS device, but as there is no third party apps this potential is wasted. Not so with a real Smartphone however.

    Surur
    IMO a closed system is only marginally better than a RAZR regardless of the specs. If you take any POS or WM smartphone and prohibit 3rd party apps, how many users on this forum would still buy one? Not I.

    I do realize we're in the minority. Most users outside of this forum have no idea what a third party app is.
    01-12-2007 08:48 AM
  12. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Is MSFT committed to no 3rd party apps? They never really elaborated on the Zune phone. Apple still has time to change it's mind and/or add more apps of it's own to sweeten the deal.
    01-12-2007 08:54 AM
  13. mulcher's Avatar
    Yea but the big advantage of a closed system is it never crashes.

    Open systems will reign kings with power users like us which make up maybe 15% of the market. But closed systems, just power on and work, like an XBox, or a toaster.

    I must reset or reboot my treo 700p 4 times a day and have boatloads of 3rd party apps and know that is 90% of the reason why it crashes all the time.

    Average joe doesn't want to know from ripping the battery out and replacing it while driving to make a darn call.
    01-12-2007 08:57 AM
  14. Dunc's Avatar
    Yea but the big advantage of a closed system is it never crashes...

    I must reset or reboot my treo 700p 4 times a day and have boatloads of 3rd party apps and know that is 90% of the reason why it crashes all the time....

    Average joe doesn't want to know from ripping the battery out and replacing it while driving to make a darn call.
    I would imagine though, that part of the reason you bought your 700p was so that you could run some of those 3d party apps. It may not be pleasant to reboot, but you're using those apps.

    The average joe would most likely not have many of those custom apps and their phone would work wonderfully. I know my 650 used to crash all the time, but I knew lots of people that used nothing but the stock apps on their 650's and they looked at me like I was 'smoking rope' everytime I asked them if their phones crashed.

    I was very enthusiastic about the iPhone when I watched the initial press conference. The knowledge that the phone was running OSX made me think that I could even run my own shell scripts, or code my own small apps. The thought, now, that 3rd party apps will be banned makes me know that the phone will be useless - as far as I'm concerned.

    Dunc
    01-12-2007 09:05 AM
  15. curlinmerlin's Avatar
    iPhone put Palm in the position of grabbing their ankles.

    Palm has been coasting since the Treo 600, having failed to innovate with their own OS which now looks absolutely ancient compared to the iPhone. You seem to forget PalmOS doesn't even have decent mail, wont' sync with the latest Outlook and you can't even listen to a .WAV voicemail without a third party app. The third party apps are Palm's biggest weakness because they are so buggy.

    I doubt jumping to Windows Mobile will help save Palm either. Windows Mobile runs better on the HTC handsets and HTC turns them out much faster than Palm can manage.

    I think Palm is dead in two years once the iPhone ships, presuming it is as good as it looks. Maybe there is some hobbyist phone market for people who want to load their own software and tweak the creaky PalmOS. I doubt it is big enough to support an entire company the size of Palm.
    01-12-2007 10:30 AM
  16. Malatesta's Avatar
    I doubt jumping to Windows Mobile will help save Palm either. Windows Mobile runs better on the HTC handsets and HTC turns them out much faster than Palm can manage.
    Says who?

    The consensus is almost the exact opposite: Palm's tricks on the 700wx have made it one of the BEST Windows mobile devices out there. It's faster yet has a slower processor (better battery life), we have threaded SMS, cool on screen VM controls, ignore call with SMS, simple contact lookup, etc, etc.

    There are dozens of threads of former 6700 users loving the 700w(x), not so much the other way.

    In fact, Windows Mobile now accounts for HALF of Palm's Treo sales and they did that in 1 year.

    Getting to the other point: Palm could do more, no doubt but lets look at Apple's position:

    - The company is huge both in money and engineers. Dwarfs Palm.
    - They had no phone and could spend years developing, care free and testing, no lost revenue for them since this wasn't their business
    - They have some great designers and can afford to pay them top notch

    I think if Palm could take nearly 3 years off, have endless supply of money and top engineers and not worry about their stocks, almost anyone could make something amazing. (maybe not though, MS continually disappoints with things like the Zune)
    01-12-2007 10:38 AM
  17. mulcher's Avatar
    Exactly, but like me, you are one of those 15% power users. So it goes back to the fact that the iphone is great and will kick some market *** if they can get beyond cingular/at&t, but it won't capture our 15%.

    That being said, it will put serious heat on others to improve substantially. They have proven you can put in a huge screen and have a ton of technology in a form factor that is much thinner than the fat little Treo.

    I agree with the post right above mine. I'm in the software industry and when a player get's lazy, they minimize the R&D effort.

    The cost for apple to develop the iPhone is way out of range of Palm, they just don't have the market cap or cash to do that and keep investors happy at the same time. Thus if the CEO's choice is to maximize shareholder wealth (the definition of a CEO's job) or take a hit to that wealth for a long term payback, they go with the first because wall street wants to know what you did this quarter, not what you are doing to develop a great company long term.

    Palm Innovated with the Treo 600, no doubt, and they got alot of mileage out of the OS. I'm not convinced that Windows Mobile is that much better. They put some prettier colors on what was basically a palm ripoff, and in typical microsoft fashion, it isn't as usable as the cruder Palm technology. But since they are microsoft and can practically give away the licensing, they still win battles.

    Apple, like in the PC space, stands up to Microsoft, not on price, but on executing better and slowly but surely they chink away at the power of the Monopoly.

    Wii is the same thing. Sony and Microsoft just came out with faster prettier consoles playing basically the same ol' games the same ol way with the same ol' controller.

    Nintendo broke the paradigm and reinvented the console.

    Apple looks to do the same here. There will definitely be some warts, but as with the iPod, apple doesn't want to make people wait a year between models for incremental changes, they are happy to keep coming out with improved versions.

    This whole thing is going to take 12 to 24 months to settle out. The only huge issue is the cingular tie in which may make this take longer than it should.

    Again, I don't see an iphone in my future because, I'll try it, but considering how crappy it is to dial a phone number on the palm screen, I couldn't imagine typing an email that way. But for the masses that don't live for email on the phone, the iPhone has "game over" written all over it.
    01-12-2007 10:39 AM
  18. curlinmerlin's Avatar
    Exactly, but like me, you are one of those 15% power users. So it goes back to the fact that the iphone is great and will kick some market *** if they can get beyond cingular/at&t, but it won't capture our 15%.
    If Palm loses 85% of their market (i.e. everyone except the 'power users' jumps ship) then Palm as we know it today will likely cease to exist.

    Maybe Palm could survive as a hardware firm building Windows Mobile compatible handsets in competition with the Taiwanese, but they would have to cut costs brutally (and probably ditch PalmOS in the process). Hardware design is not much of a future either, since HTC appear to run rings around Palm in terms of cycle time for new designs.
    01-13-2007 10:31 PM
  19. curlinmerlin's Avatar
    Says who?

    The consensus is almost the exact opposite: Palm's tricks on the 700wx have made it one of the BEST Windows mobile devices out there. It's faster yet has a slower processor (better battery life), we have threaded SMS, cool on screen VM controls, ignore call with SMS, simple contact lookup, etc, etc.
    I'm basing that on people I know who switched to HTC from Treo's. I could well be wrong, but in the big picture I think it doesn't really matter. I don't see how Palm can thrive as a phone designer building WM phones, with Apple as a major new player taking the bulk of new customers.

    IMHO HTC seems to be able to turn out new models quicker than Palm can launch new Treo's. Palm would have to gut themselves to match the cost structure of Taiwanese vendors like HTC.
    01-13-2007 10:37 PM
  20. meyerweb#CB's Avatar
    How long do you think before Palm "stands-up" and does something about it?
    Unfortunately, too long, IMHO. (And I LIKE the PalmOS, and my Treo.)

    Palm hasn't shown any innovation in more years than I can remember. Everything innovative about the Treo was done by Handspring. Palm's fiddled with OS's (Cobalt), Physical layouts (Lifedrive), with no success. All they've done with Treo's is fiddle with screen res and keyboard layouts. Other than keyboard, screen, and EVDO (the last 2 designed by and sourced from outside suppliers), what has Palm really done to advance the Treo? Oh, that's right. They changed the name from treo to Treo!

    A recent article here on TC said Palm was bragging that they had more software engineers than hardware engineers. They must be the most bored software engineers in the country, as they seem to do nothing but minor upgrades to Garnet several times a year.

    I'm hoping for much from Palm, but expecting little or nothing.
    01-13-2007 11:06 PM
  21. specimen38's Avatar
    Palm's response and iPhone dilemma is quite a bit more complicated than simply teaming up w/microsoft. Or building a better device that looks space age like the iPhone. Profit margins per WM5 are steep, if you put an iPod/Zune class MP3 player in it - you'd be relegated to using one of the other online MP3 providers, which according to data and by all accounts are least preferred. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs having this debate in the media about all in one "end to end" solutions versus the collaborative commoditied approach. Palm needs leverage with its partners if it is going to succeed. I think Palm is in weak position and ripe for takeover.

    [Edit]
    Palm needs to be able to leverage their relationships with the wireless companies, parts providers, dev. community and Microsoft. It was evident during Steve Jobs' keynote that Apple is not under any pressure from Cingular to develop the iPhone a certain way. The CEO from Cingular appeared on stage with Steve and said in a paraphrased way Cingular had no hand in the development of the iPhone. They (Cingular) hadn't even seen the iPhone until it was released. They were trusting Apple. That's leverage!

    On the other hand, Palm desperately needs OS development muscle, cash and a new marketing strategy. The split of Palmsource and PalmOne was suppose to accomplish the former, but its failure left Palm reeling to Microsoft. Palm needs partners while the company in Redmond needs customers for its Zune.
    01-13-2007 11:43 PM
  22. specimen38's Avatar
    Takeover by who? Microsoft
    01-13-2007 11:46 PM
  23. MacUser's Avatar
    Again, I don't see an iphone in my future because, I'll try it, but considering how crappy it is to dial a phone number on the palm screen, I couldn't imagine typing an email that way. But for the masses that don't live for email on the phone, the iPhone has "game over" written all over it.
    I am a heavy email user and will be giving the iPhone a try. A lot of R&D has gone into the touch screen technology. I'm very doubtful that it will be that bad after 2.5 years of product development. I could be wrong, but it just doesn't make sense. Either way, how could you not try it out to see?
    01-14-2007 09:07 AM
  24. holvoetn's Avatar
    I guess if you are a heavy email user, you will not like the virtual keyboard.
    I know I would hate it ...
    01-14-2007 09:27 AM
  25. Mtreosexual's Avatar
    Guys believe it or not !!
    iphone is coming to take over . Palm 's only future seems to be microsoft.
    It is going to be another ipod like product . So many MP3 players exist todate, some of them better sounding than ipod. It 's the design , ease of use , apple has shown that with ipod , iphone is the next product .( "Be different" ).
    Ipod has to a limited extent and iphone will introduce more people to mac computers and take away from microsoft. All i can say is that Suckular is in for their largest increase in subscription by the end of the year

    Specimen 38 ,
    How ya doin ?
    Nice to be back .
    I haven't bought any Treo after T650.
    Currently on Nokia E61 , Come June life will be different.
    01-14-2007 09:51 AM
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