iPhone put Palm in a great position

[specimen38]

Palm's response and iPhone dilemma is quite a bit more complicated than simply teaming up w/microsoft. Or building a better device that looks space age like the iPhone. Profit margins per WM5 are steep, if you put an iPod/Zune class MP3 player in it - you'd be relegated to using one of the other online MP3 providers, which according to data and by all accounts are least preferred. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs having this debate in the media about all in one "end to end" solutions versus the collaborative commoditied approach. Palm needs leverage with its partners if it is going to succeed. I think Palm is in weak position and ripe for takeover.

[Edit]
Palm needs to be able to leverage their relationships with the wireless companies, parts providers, dev. community and Microsoft. It was evident during Steve Jobs' keynote that Apple is not under any pressure from Cingular to develop the iPhone a certain way. The CEO from Cingular appeared on stage with Steve and said in a paraphrased way Cingular had no hand in the development of the iPhone. They (Cingular) hadn't even seen the iPhone until it was released. They were trusting Apple. That's leverage!

On the other hand, Palm desperately needs OS development muscle, cash and a new marketing strategy. The split of Palmsource and PalmOne was suppose to accomplish the former, but its failure left Palm reeling to Microsoft. Palm needs partners while the company in Redmond needs customers for its Zune.

 

[specimen38]

Takeover by who? Microsoft

 

[MacUser]

Again, I don't see an iphone in my future because, I'll try it, but considering how crappy it is to dial a phone number on the palm screen, I couldn't imagine typing an email that way. But for the masses that don't live for email on the phone, the iPhone has "game over" written all over it.

I am a heavy email user and will be giving the iPhone a try. A lot of R&D has gone into the touch screen technology. I'm very doubtful that it will be that bad after 2.5 years of product development. I could be wrong, but it just doesn't make sense. Either way, how could you not try it out to see?

 

[holvoetn]

I guess if you are a heavy email user, you will not like the virtual keyboard.
I know I would hate it ...

 

[Mtreosexual]

Guys believe it or not !!
iphone is coming to take over . Palm 's only future seems to be microsoft.
It is going to be another ipod like product . So many MP3 players exist todate, some of them better sounding than ipod. It 's the design , ease of use , apple has shown that with ipod , iphone is the next product .( "Be different" ).
Ipod has to a limited extent and iphone will introduce more people to mac computers and take away from microsoft. All i can say is that Suckular is in for their largest increase in subscription by the end of the year

Specimen 38 ,
How ya doin ?
Nice to be back .
I haven't bought any Treo after T650.
Currently on Nokia E61 , Come June life will be different.

 

[specimen38]

What's up Mtreosexual? I'm doin' well. Hope things are well with you. I am with you on the iPhone. As a debut product, it's years beyond everything else even without 3G. The lack of 3rd party stuff doesn't concern me because that's coming. Also, "ultimately" I think the we do not have much to worry about using the touchscreen keyboard. I don't think Steve Jobs (a heavy email user) is dumb enough to release a product that is crippled. Good hearing from you. I was in Manhattan last month for a few days. Take care....

Specimen 38 ,
How ya doin ?
Nice to be back .
I haven't bought any Treo after T650.
Currently on Nokia E61 , Come June life will be different.

 

[Malatesta]

Guys believe it or not !!
iphone is coming to take over . Palm 's only future seems to be microsoft.
It is going to be another ipod like product . So many MP3 players exist todate, some of them better sounding than ipod. It 's the design , ease of use , apple has shown that with ipod , iphone is the next product .( "Be different" ).
Ipod has to a limited extent and iphone will introduce more people to mac computers and take away from microsoft.

It'll do well but there will be limited market saturation because of the following

1) Only Cingular (phone is locked). Some will switch, most will not.
2) Price barrier
3) Need: some will want it, anyone over 40 will look the other way
4) No enterprise market

And don't forget, years after those admittedly impressive Mac computers, laptops and iPods it's still just 5% of the total computer market.

No one will "take over" the phone market, it'll be like anything else: 2 or maybe 3 dominant OS developers.

 

[Pearl_Diva]

Says who?

The consensus is almost the exact opposite: Palm's tricks on the 700wx have made it one of the BEST Windows mobile devices out there. It's faster yet has a slower processor (better battery life), we have threaded SMS, cool on screen VM controls, ignore call with SMS, simple contact lookup, etc, etc.

There are dozens of threads of former 6700 users loving the 700w(x), not so much the other way.

In fact, Windows Mobile now accounts for HALF of Palm's Treo sales and they did that in 1 year.

What it also tells you is that the Palm OS might as well just cease to exist if it doesn't revamp soon. If people are willing to use WM with tweaks, but are no longer buying the Palm OS Treos as much, that's not necessarily good IMO. Palm's flagship OS(what many recognize Palm for in the first place) is going down the tubes fast!! And if Apple's Mobile OS X takes off(it certainly looks more advanced than the Palm OS), how long before a real Apple smartphone emerges? If it happens before they get Cobalt(or Palm 6.0) ready for prime time...

 

[Pearl_Diva]

It'll do well but there will be limited market saturation because of the following

1) Only Cingular (phone is locked). Some will switch, most will not. I agree that this may be a REALLY bad move to keep the phone locked at those prices!
2) Price barrier I agree.
3) Need: some will want it, anyone over 40 will look the other way Speak for yourself.
4) No enterprise market It looks like it was meant to be a concept phone for the consumer anyway. Where is the most money at this time, consumer or enterprise buyers? I'm not really sure, to tell you the truth. But I suspect Apple thinks consumers.

And don't forget, years after those admittedly impressive Mac computers, laptops and iPods it's still just 5% of the total computer market.

No one will "take over" the phone market, it'll be like anything else: 2 or maybe 3 dominant OS developers.

My thoughts in red. I hope Apple does something about the first 2. I agree that those are BIG sticking points for the average buyer.

 

[MacUser]

It'll do well but there will be limited market saturation because of the following

1) Only Cingular (phone is locked). Some will switch, most will not.
2) Price barrier
3) Need: some will want it, anyone over 40 will look the other way
4) No enterprise market

1. Many will switch.
2. A definite concern.
3. I disagree. For those less tech savy, this will provide new access.
4. We'll have to see what Steve has up his sleeve come June.

 

[Pearl_Diva]

One problem about switching though, Cingular can't make up it's mind who it is. Now they're going to phase out "Cingular" and phase in "ATT" again! Many people might get confused again! Remember all the blue(former ATT customers who got phased over) and orange Cingular(those who signed up while Cingular was actually Cingular) crap! So now we're all going to be blue again, or what?

 

[Mtreosexual]

It'll do well but there will be limited market saturation because of the following

1) Only Cingular (phone is locked). Some will switch, most will not.
2) Price barrier
3) Need: some will want it, anyone over 40 will look the other way
4) No enterprise market

And don't forget, years after those admittedly impressive Mac computers, laptops and iPods it's still just 5% of the total computer market.

No one will "take over" the phone market, it'll be like anything else: 2 or maybe 3 dominant OS developers.

1. No exclusive for life contract exists . Apple can make other versions similar to palm for others. There are rumors on thinksecret about it.
2. Calculate the cost of your 3rd party apps , treo's aren't dirt cheap either.
3. Need ; The whole world does not do VOIP on cell phone or networking administration only a very few people. You would b esurprised how many people over 40 are using ipods and a non smartphone cell phone .
4. May be a different version down the line for enterprise market or may not be . Still a large number of non enterprise users will go for it .

Simialr can be said for Microsoft Zune . What 's the market share of MP3 world ,not even 5%.

 

[kmrivers]

It'll do well but there will be limited market saturation because of the following

1) Only Cingular (phone is locked). Some will switch, most will not.
2) Price barrier
3) Need: some will want it, anyone over 40 will look the other way
4) No enterprise market

And don't forget, years after those admittedly impressive Mac computers, laptops and iPods it's still just 5% of the total computer market.

No one will "take over" the phone market, it'll be like anything else: 2 or maybe 3 dominant OS developers.

Mac marketshare is gaining major steam. Jobs reported that 50% of the Macs sold in all retail stores (apple and elsewhere) are to customers new to the Mac. The Macbooks have been selling like hotcakes. I don't have any current marketshare data but it is over 5% now and pushing 10% last I heard.

Also, note that isn't a measure of Windows computers vs. Mac Computers. It is Apple vs Dell, Gateway, HP, etc, etc. Much bigger pool.

The iPod has close 70% of the MP3 player marketshare.

 

[Malatesta]

1. No exclusive for life contract exists . Apple can make other versions similar to palm for others. There are rumors on thinksecret about it.
2. Calculate the cost of your 3rd party apps , treo's aren't dirt cheap either.
3. Need ; The whole world does not do VOIP on cell phone or networking administration only a very few people. You would b esurprised how many people over 40 are using ipods and a non smartphone cell phone .
4. May be a different version down the line for enterprise market or may not be . Still a large number of non enterprise users will go for it .

Simialr can be said for Microsoft Zune . What 's the market share of MP3 world ,not even 5%.

I thought it was no fun arguing with me and yet your back?

1) No doubt that an iPhone will go to other carriers but not till mid-2009
2) Yes, they are expensive (depends on how much you invest though, you are not forced to buy those)
3) It's just not VOIP
4) Speculation. Who knows at this point.

Zune stinks, no argument there. It's also been on the market for what 3 months? I'm not sure I'd compare it to Apple's computer business, either way no it will never catch up to the iPod.

 

[Mtreosexual]

Did you just drink coolaid ?
Seem to have simmerD...

 

[Malatesta]

Did you just drink coolaid ?
Seem to have simmerD...

lol, no.

I want to make clear: I'm not some rabid MS or PalmOS fan. Those systems/OSs have their clear limitations and problems. They are certainly not for everyone whereas a closed-system like the iPhone will be (for those who can afford it).

I'm just trying to a get a grip on what it can and can't do in relation to today's high end PDA phones.

At the end of the day though as I've always maintained:

- It will be a huge hit
- People will love it
- It will inspire innovation and make the market better

What I'm not convinced of (in it's current form) is that it can "kill off" the PDA phone market, which I do not think it is suppose to do anyways.

It will be in it's own category.

 

[bruckwine]

Yea but the big advantage of a closed system is it never crashes.

Open systems will reign kings with power users like us which make up maybe 15% of the market. But closed systems, just power on and work, like an XBox, or a toaster.

I must reset or reboot my treo 700p 4 times a day and have boatloads of 3rd party apps and know that is 90% of the reason why it crashes all the time.

Average joe doesn't want to know from ripping the battery out and replacing it while driving to make a darn call.

Are you serious?! EVERYTHING crashes! The iPod crashes esp once music is on it..sure the iPhone might not crash out of the box but once you put some files on it there is the probability it will! I think you mean it's less likely to crash...any aps that are on it put there by Apple in all probability will crash it at some stage...we're only human after all!

 

[MacUser]

Are you serious?! EVERYTHING crashes! The iPod crashes esp once music is on it..sure the iPhone might not crash out of the box but once you put some files on it there is the probability it will! I think you mean it's less likely to crash...any aps that are on it put there by Apple in all probability will crash it at some stage...we're only human after all!

My iPod has never crashed.
I think the iPhone will be unlikely to crash as well.

 

[bclancy]

Yea but the big advantage of a closed system is it never crashes.

Never is an awfully strong word!

I must reset or reboot my treo 700p 4 times a day and have boatloads of 3rd party apps and know that is 90% of the reason why it crashes all the time.

My 700p resets a lot but my 600 hardly ever did. I think Palm can solve the reset problems without having every s/w developer work around it if they really want to. (And I think Apple is giving them that incentive!)

-- Bob

 

[Malatesta]

My iPod has never crashed.
I think the iPhone will be unlikely to crash as well.

I think the iPhone will be quite stable but I'm sure there will the occasional hiccup.

Having said that my iPod nano has crashed, which I was even surprised. Happens sometimes when I sync or connect it up to my Pioneer car stereo. Not often but a few times.

I do hate iTunes on the PC. Memory hog.