1. specimen38's Avatar
    What's up Mtreosexual? I'm doin' well. Hope things are well with you. I am with you on the iPhone. As a debut product, it's years beyond everything else even without 3G. The lack of 3rd party stuff doesn't concern me because that's coming. Also, "ultimately" I think the we do not have much to worry about using the touchscreen keyboard. I don't think Steve Jobs (a heavy email user) is dumb enough to release a product that is crippled. Good hearing from you. I was in Manhattan last month for a few days. Take care....


    Specimen 38 ,
    How ya doin ?
    Nice to be back .
    I haven't bought any Treo after T650.
    Currently on Nokia E61 , Come June life will be different.
    01-14-2007 10:50 AM
  2. Malatesta's Avatar
    Guys believe it or not !!
    iphone is coming to take over . Palm 's only future seems to be microsoft.
    It is going to be another ipod like product . So many MP3 players exist todate, some of them better sounding than ipod. It 's the design , ease of use , apple has shown that with ipod , iphone is the next product .( "Be different" ).
    Ipod has to a limited extent and iphone will introduce more people to mac computers and take away from microsoft.
    It'll do well but there will be limited market saturation because of the following

    1) Only Cingular (phone is locked). Some will switch, most will not.
    2) Price barrier
    3) Need: some will want it, anyone over 40 will look the other way
    4) No enterprise market

    And don't forget, years after those admittedly impressive Mac computers, laptops and iPods it's still just 5% of the total computer market.

    No one will "take over" the phone market, it'll be like anything else: 2 or maybe 3 dominant OS developers.
    01-14-2007 12:12 PM
  3. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Says who?

    The consensus is almost the exact opposite: Palm's tricks on the 700wx have made it one of the BEST Windows mobile devices out there. It's faster yet has a slower processor (better battery life), we have threaded SMS, cool on screen VM controls, ignore call with SMS, simple contact lookup, etc, etc.

    There are dozens of threads of former 6700 users loving the 700w(x), not so much the other way.

    In fact, Windows Mobile now accounts for HALF of Palm's Treo sales and they did that in 1 year.
    What it also tells you is that the Palm OS might as well just cease to exist if it doesn't revamp soon. If people are willing to use WM with tweaks, but are no longer buying the Palm OS Treos as much, that's not necessarily good IMO. Palm's flagship OS(what many recognize Palm for in the first place) is going down the tubes fast!! And if Apple's Mobile OS X takes off(it certainly looks more advanced than the Palm OS), how long before a real Apple smartphone emerges? If it happens before they get Cobalt(or Palm 6.0) ready for prime time...
    01-14-2007 06:31 PM
  4. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    It'll do well but there will be limited market saturation because of the following

    1) Only Cingular (phone is locked). Some will switch, most will not. I agree that this may be a REALLY bad move to keep the phone locked at those prices!
    2) Price barrier I agree.
    3) Need: some will want it, anyone over 40 will look the other way Speak for yourself.
    4) No enterprise market It looks like it was meant to be a concept phone for the consumer anyway. Where is the most money at this time, consumer or enterprise buyers? I'm not really sure, to tell you the truth. But I suspect Apple thinks consumers.

    And don't forget, years after those admittedly impressive Mac computers, laptops and iPods it's still just 5% of the total computer market.

    No one will "take over" the phone market, it'll be like anything else: 2 or maybe 3 dominant OS developers.
    My thoughts in red. I hope Apple does something about the first 2. I agree that those are BIG sticking points for the average buyer.
    01-14-2007 06:41 PM
  5. MacUser's Avatar
    It'll do well but there will be limited market saturation because of the following

    1) Only Cingular (phone is locked). Some will switch, most will not.
    2) Price barrier
    3) Need: some will want it, anyone over 40 will look the other way
    4) No enterprise market
    1. Many will switch.
    2. A definite concern.
    3. I disagree. For those less tech savy, this will provide new access.
    4. We'll have to see what Steve has up his sleeve come June.
    01-14-2007 06:42 PM
  6. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    One problem about switching though, Cingular can't make up it's mind who it is. Now they're going to phase out "Cingular" and phase in "ATT" again! Many people might get confused again! Remember all the blue(former ATT customers who got phased over) and orange Cingular(those who signed up while Cingular was actually Cingular) crap! So now we're all going to be blue again, or what?
    01-14-2007 07:02 PM
  7. Mtreosexual's Avatar
    It'll do well but there will be limited market saturation because of the following

    1) Only Cingular (phone is locked). Some will switch, most will not.
    2) Price barrier
    3) Need: some will want it, anyone over 40 will look the other way
    4) No enterprise market

    And don't forget, years after those admittedly impressive Mac computers, laptops and iPods it's still just 5% of the total computer market.

    No one will "take over" the phone market, it'll be like anything else: 2 or maybe 3 dominant OS developers.
    1. No exclusive for life contract exists . Apple can make other versions similar to palm for others. There are rumors on thinksecret about it.
    2. Calculate the cost of your 3rd party apps , treo's aren't dirt cheap either.
    3. Need ; The whole world does not do VOIP on cell phone or networking administration only a very few people. You would b esurprised how many people over 40 are using ipods and a non smartphone cell phone .
    4. May be a different version down the line for enterprise market or may not be . Still a large number of non enterprise users will go for it .

    Simialr can be said for Microsoft Zune . What 's the market share of MP3 world ,not even 5%.
    01-14-2007 07:23 PM
  8. kmrivers's Avatar
    It'll do well but there will be limited market saturation because of the following

    1) Only Cingular (phone is locked). Some will switch, most will not.
    2) Price barrier
    3) Need: some will want it, anyone over 40 will look the other way
    4) No enterprise market

    And don't forget, years after those admittedly impressive Mac computers, laptops and iPods it's still just 5% of the total computer market.

    No one will "take over" the phone market, it'll be like anything else: 2 or maybe 3 dominant OS developers.
    Mac marketshare is gaining major steam. Jobs reported that 50% of the Macs sold in all retail stores (apple and elsewhere) are to customers new to the Mac. The Macbooks have been selling like hotcakes. I don't have any current marketshare data but it is over 5% now and pushing 10% last I heard.

    Also, note that isn't a measure of Windows computers vs. Mac Computers. It is Apple vs Dell, Gateway, HP, etc, etc. Much bigger pool.

    The iPod has close 70% of the MP3 player marketshare.
    01-14-2007 07:26 PM
  9. Malatesta's Avatar
    1. No exclusive for life contract exists . Apple can make other versions similar to palm for others. There are rumors on thinksecret about it.
    2. Calculate the cost of your 3rd party apps , treo's aren't dirt cheap either.
    3. Need ; The whole world does not do VOIP on cell phone or networking administration only a very few people. You would b esurprised how many people over 40 are using ipods and a non smartphone cell phone .
    4. May be a different version down the line for enterprise market or may not be . Still a large number of non enterprise users will go for it .

    Simialr can be said for Microsoft Zune . What 's the market share of MP3 world ,not even 5%.
    I thought it was no fun arguing with me and yet your back?

    1) No doubt that an iPhone will go to other carriers but not till mid-2009
    2) Yes, they are expensive (depends on how much you invest though, you are not forced to buy those)
    3) It's just not VOIP
    4) Speculation. Who knows at this point.

    Zune stinks, no argument there. It's also been on the market for what 3 months? I'm not sure I'd compare it to Apple's computer business, either way no it will never catch up to the iPod.
    01-14-2007 07:29 PM
  10. Mtreosexual's Avatar
    Did you just drink coolaid ?
    Seem to have simmerD...
    01-14-2007 07:33 PM
  11. Malatesta's Avatar
    Did you just drink coolaid ?
    Seem to have simmerD...
    lol, no.

    I want to make clear: I'm not some rabid MS or PalmOS fan. Those systems/OSs have their clear limitations and problems. They are certainly not for everyone whereas a closed-system like the iPhone will be (for those who can afford it).

    I'm just trying to a get a grip on what it can and can't do in relation to today's high end PDA phones.

    At the end of the day though as I've always maintained:

    - It will be a huge hit
    - People will love it
    - It will inspire innovation and make the market better

    What I'm not convinced of (in it's current form) is that it can "kill off" the PDA phone market, which I do not think it is suppose to do anyways.

    It will be in it's own category.
    01-14-2007 07:50 PM
  12. bruckwine's Avatar
    Yea but the big advantage of a closed system is it never crashes.

    Open systems will reign kings with power users like us which make up maybe 15% of the market. But closed systems, just power on and work, like an XBox, or a toaster.

    I must reset or reboot my treo 700p 4 times a day and have boatloads of 3rd party apps and know that is 90% of the reason why it crashes all the time.

    Average joe doesn't want to know from ripping the battery out and replacing it while driving to make a darn call.
    Are you serious?! EVERYTHING crashes! The iPod crashes esp once music is on it..sure the iPhone might not crash out of the box but once you put some files on it there is the probability it will! I think you mean it's less likely to crash...any aps that are on it put there by Apple in all probability will crash it at some stage...we're only human after all!
    01-14-2007 09:05 PM
  13. MacUser's Avatar
    Are you serious?! EVERYTHING crashes! The iPod crashes esp once music is on it..sure the iPhone might not crash out of the box but once you put some files on it there is the probability it will! I think you mean it's less likely to crash...any aps that are on it put there by Apple in all probability will crash it at some stage...we're only human after all!
    My iPod has never crashed.
    I think the iPhone will be unlikely to crash as well.
    01-14-2007 10:07 PM
  14. bclancy's Avatar
    Yea but the big advantage of a closed system is it never crashes.
    Never is an awfully strong word!

    I must reset or reboot my treo 700p 4 times a day and have boatloads of 3rd party apps and know that is 90% of the reason why it crashes all the time.
    My 700p resets a lot but my 600 hardly ever did. I think Palm can solve the reset problems without having every s/w developer work around it if they really want to. (And I think Apple is giving them that incentive!)

    -- Bob
    01-14-2007 10:47 PM
  15. Malatesta's Avatar
    My iPod has never crashed.
    I think the iPhone will be unlikely to crash as well.
    I think the iPhone will be quite stable but I'm sure there will the occasional hiccup.

    Having said that my iPod nano has crashed, which I was even surprised. Happens sometimes when I sync or connect it up to my Pioneer car stereo. Not often but a few times.

    I do hate iTunes on the PC. Memory hog.
    01-14-2007 11:24 PM
  16. surur's Avatar
    My wife's new 5.5 G Ipod crashed and I had to hold down two buttons to reset it. In fact, isn't the reset procedure on the plastic cover? Having it happen within days of owning it suggests its quite common.

    Surur
    01-15-2007 02:18 AM
  17. CGK#IM's Avatar
    I don't think I've had a treo that's not reset within an day of having it - so what you are saying is that it's likely to be twice as reliable.

    I think when you get down to it - none of those "smart" type device have ever been that reliable (well except for my e61 which has been rock-solid from day 1).
    01-15-2007 04:42 AM
  18. skfny's Avatar
    This is the first time Palm has been forced to innovate in a LONG time. I firmly believe we'd still have a 160x160 screen on all Palms if it wasn't for Sony pushing the envelope many years ago. When Sony left POS, they took almost all innovation with them. Palm had no reason to innovate.

    Either way, this is good for the consumer. I've been looking for the Treo killer for years. This isn't it, but I think it may inspire one.
    01-15-2007 07:49 AM
  19. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    My wife's new 5.5 G Ipod crashed and I had to hold down two buttons to reset it. In fact, isn't the reset procedure on the plastic cover? Having it happen within days of owning it suggests its quite common.

    Surur

    I had one Nano reset to the factory page(I didn't understand that). I think the screen blanked out on another but worked again after I plugged it in. But I never had a problem on the hard drive player.
    01-15-2007 08:18 AM
  20. marcol's Avatar
    (well except for my e61 which has been rock-solid from day 1).
    Mine too. Apps have crashed (closed without being told too, one hung and couldn't be closed) but never the device itself. Four months without crashing is pretty good in my opinion. The only other computers I've had with similar stability have run OS X, which might bode well for iPhone if it has similar memory protection.
    01-15-2007 08:40 AM
  21. CGK#IM's Avatar
    In some respects I have been a bit disappointed with the lack of 3rd party apps but the trade-off was worth it - the amount of times that my 650 would lock during calls or during dialing.

    After having the e61 for a bit (which pardoxically gets far more use than my treo 650 loaded with apps ever did), I've come to the conclusion that I don't require a PDA with a phone stuck on it (treo) but a Phone that has some PIM* function - which is what the e61 is.


    * compared to the Palm PIM or 3rd party apps like Agendus or Datebk5 - the symbian PIM is seriously weak but I've got used to it.
    01-15-2007 08:57 AM
  22. bigwalton's Avatar
    I guess if you are a heavy email user, you will not like the virtual keyboard.
    I know I would hate it ...
    This kind of comment reminds me of how people screamed at how stupid Apple was to drop the floppy drive in all of their computers when the first iMacs came out and towers went floppy-less.

    I imagine that we'll all be wondering what the heck we were thinking when we were saying that hard-button keyboards were the only way to go...


    For the record, I'm highly skeptical of what the on-screen keyboard will be like compared to the Treo's, but I'm not so closed-minded to think that it couldn't be better and, as Apple is famous for, the first example of the future of the phone-keyboard interfaces.

    I'm picturing the proximity sensor acting in the way that Apple's dock does when you have the magnify setting on. Sensing where your fingertip is and enlarging the key/keys near where you are so that the functional size of the keys is much larger than the on-screen size when you don't have a finger hovering.

    I could see this working very well IF the proximity sensor dealio works well and lasts as long as the phone.
    01-15-2007 02:42 PM
  23. holvoetn's Avatar
    I had no issue with the floppy being removed, it could not have been done sooner. Actually I still carried one for 2 years in my laptop without ever using it (some Compaq thing).

    On my current laptop I have a CD/DVD combo, also that may be taken out if I had something to say about it (never use CD/DVD unless home, so I can just as well make a network connection to my desktop computer).

    I see your point though, and I think I was very clear this was a personal opinion. Everyone is entitled to have one.

    Luckily we all are quite different in our needs and wants, it would be a dull place otherwise (and we would not be having this discussion either )
    01-15-2007 02:55 PM
  24. bigwalton's Avatar
    Yeah, sorry, nothing against you specifically, your post just clarified something that was bothering me about the knocks on the on-screen keyboard.

    I was thinking that Apple was one generation too early in the floppy removal back then. I wasn't screaming by any means, but I was skeptical.

    I've said in other posts that the way that the keyboard works will make or break this phone for those of us that are at the high-end of the target market (prosumers, if I had to put a label on it).

    Having used Macs for so long and a Treo touchscreen, I feel like I have a good guess what the user experience will be like, at least 80% of it, but the one thing I want to play with in person is the keyboard
    01-15-2007 07:28 PM
  25. Mtreosexual's Avatar
    In some respects I have been a bit disappointed with the lack of 3rd party apps but the trade-off was worth it - the amount of times that my 650 would lock during calls or during dialing.

    After having the e61 for a bit (which pardoxically gets far more use than my treo 650 loaded with apps ever did), I've come to the conclusion that I don't require a PDA with a phone stuck on it (treo) but a Phone that has some PIM* function - which is what the e61 is.


    * compared to the Palm PIM or 3rd party apps like Agendus or Datebk5 - the symbian PIM is seriously weak but I've got used to it.

    Right on !!
    E 61, made me realize , i need a solid phone first and PDA functions are secondary and if needed, i will sacrifice the later.
    Great battery life , awesome sound quality ,rock solid . A tad slow UI , but reflexes have adapted. My T650 is gathering dust for last 6 months.
    I am looking forward to iphone.
    01-16-2007 12:04 AM
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