1. theafricannerd's Avatar
    -Now we can hold Palm to a higher standard

    -Now Palm has no excuses

    -The iPhone may set a precedent that allows less meddling by Carriers with regards to the functionality of the phone which should allow Palm to better innovate.
    01-11-2007 11:17 AM
  2. vw2002's Avatar
    -Now we can hold Palm to a higher standard

    -Now Palm has no exuses

    -The iPhone may set a precedent that allows less meddling by Carriers with regards to the functionality of the phone which should allow Palm to better innovate.

    Palm, unfortunately, will ALWAYS have excuses. It is the nature of their business model. I have been a customer of the company since the palm pilot, and this is all I have seen from them. Unless their upper management team is replaced, what you`ve seen so far is what you`re going to get going forward.

    They are too conservative to innovate at the level needed to upstage Steve Jobs.
    01-11-2007 11:23 AM
  3. MarkY's Avatar
    -The iPhone may set a precedent that allows less meddling by Carriers with regards to the functionality of the phone which should allow Palm to better innovate.
    If the deal Apple struck with Cingular is a precedent then that will allow for more meddling by carriers, IMO. If Cingular is the only carrier to ever release the device then they (and Apple) are free to do what they want unless someone else comes out with an equally compelling device. The same will be true of any other device maker with a high demand product entering an exclusive agreement with a provider.
    01-11-2007 11:29 AM
  4. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Still waiting for built-in wifi and BT 2.0 from Palm. :shake:
    01-11-2007 11:50 AM
  5. bclinger#IM's Avatar
    The great thing about the iPhone is that it does not support 3rd party software! Wow. That would .... want something better after a while? Go somewhere else or back to Palm.

    Ben
    01-11-2007 04:08 PM
  6. sinebubble's Avatar
    -Now we can hold Palm to a higher standard

    -Now Palm has no excuses

    -The iPhone may set a precedent that allows less meddling by Carriers with regards to the functionality of the phone which should allow Palm to better innovate.
    I wish I could believe that, but I cannot. You're way too optimistic that this sudden competition is going to kick Palm in gear. What did RIM really do for Palm? Versamail and a crippled blackberry connect (years too late). What did MS mobile do? Made Palm pretty much abandon PalmOS. Competition has never led Palm to innovation.

    People complain about the iPhone lacking 3G/UMTS. Well, I never complained that my 600/650 and 680 lacked 3G/UMTS. They complain about no third party apps. Well, it's already clear that Apple's standard apps are going to blow away Palm's standard apps (Memo? Tasks? ugh), so why would I need a third party app? Vindigo? After seeing a much better google maps, give me a break. Documents to Go? My phone is a business phone, but I've never used Docs2Go. PocketTunes? iPod. Blazer? Safari. Versamail? Mail.app. Etc, etc. If Palm did it right the first time, we wouldn't need to spend additional money for third party apps.

    After 3 generations of Treo we're still using the same basic design and feature set. The same OS, the same<2.0 bluetooth, the same Memo, Tasks, etc. And paying for the non-upgrade each year.

    Honestly, I feel angry and cheated by Palm. I have spent SO much money over the last couple of years buying new and replacement Treos (and their PDA's before that) thinking I was getting best effort. Now that I see with wide eyes what can actually be done, by some company that can, with their first attempt, raise the bar so stupidly high...it just disgusts me that Palm has wasted YEARS doing NOTHING innovative.

    And even worse for them that there is nothing they can license from Apple to get around their lack of innovation. They'll just be a niche player in the MS mobile arena.

    What do I expect from Palm now? Absolutely nothing.

    However, I do expect other phone manufacturers to respond to the iPhone. I'm certain Nokia and Sony will rise to occasion and give us 75% of iPhone for 50% of the cost in a years time.
    01-11-2007 06:51 PM
  7. sinebubble's Avatar
    The great thing about the iPhone is that it does not support 3rd party software! Wow. That would .... want something better after a while? Go somewhere else or back to Palm.

    Ben
    Ben, when did you last buy third party apps for your Blackberry, Nokia, Moto or Sony phone? If Palm did it right the first time, I wouldn't have to buy apps for my Treo. I was initially upset about this as well, but they I realized I was stuck in the wrong mind-set. We should all be able to go to the phone store with a list of needs and buy the phone that fits them. That is why Blackberry exists, after-all. I look at the third party apps (free and pay) on my phone and wonder how essential they are...they're not. Vindigo is the only one that comes close and I'm convinced google maps and a decent browser will render it horribly useless really soon. I mean, I actually pay for Vindigo every year?!? I'm finally embarrassed about that.

    If there is a true need for a robust third party application platform then Palm should open source PalmOS so someone else can fix it and create something that developers can write decent software for. But to hold Palm up as some kind of third party software mecca is a serious joke.
    01-11-2007 07:01 PM
  8. sinebubble's Avatar
    Palm, unfortunately, will ALWAYS have excuses. It is the nature of their business model. I have been a customer of the company since the palm pilot, and this is all I have seen from them. Unless their upper management team is replaced, what you`ve seen so far is what you`re going to get going forward.

    They are too conservative to innovate at the level needed to upstage Steve Jobs.
    For years we have sucked it up and bought Palm's me-too products. And walked by the display cases showing Palm PDA's from 5 years ago still on sale for outrageous prices. Now we see an opening salvo that is going to radically change the data-centric phone market. I got over my disappointment that this device wasn't coming from Palm really quick because I never expected it would be Palm to begin with.
    01-11-2007 07:10 PM
  9. naftalim's Avatar
    For me, the unforgiveable Palm issue is the lack of WiFi. This is particulary an issue here in Canada with high data costs. I just shelled out $900 for a Vodaphone 750v, and yet, I would take a very hard look at the iPhone when it comes to Canada.

    I am now using Windows Mobile not because I want to, but because Palm could not make a 3G phone with their OS.

    This raises the bar in many ways and I am happy about that. This includes Windows Mobile. Third party apps for this are total crap. I removed all of them from my device, the only one left is MemMaid. (Funny that the only WM 3rd party app I use is the one that cleans up the crap left by WM apps.)
    01-11-2007 07:11 PM
  10. bclinger#IM's Avatar
    My lovely wife has had three Blackberry phones and was very happy to get my 650 when I up'd to a 700p. She did also complain about the lack of third party apps and the cost of those apps. So, that is a problem. When you buy your Blackberry and similar type of phone, try to get an application that does better than the built in one - and frankly, we all are that way. We want more. At least with the Treo you can get more. You cannot with many other phones.

    As for Blackberry email, it holds nothing to ChatterEmail.

    I frankly have a problem with someone buying a product, hating it and still keeping it. The Treo does more than the Blackberry and most other devices out there. As for ease of use, tell me why the Treo scores as high as it does? An archaic operating system? It works and it works well. Many of us do not need multitasking. My 700p is a work device - hours a day with HanDBase, a couple of hours a week with DTG, email between 6:45-10P 7 days a week. It is also a relaxing device - eReader, a couple of games, music, Internet music, IM, et cetera.

    Ben

    Ben, when did you last buy third party apps for your Blackberry, Nokia, Moto or Sony phone? If Palm did it right the first time, I wouldn't have to buy apps for my Treo. I was initially upset about this as well, but they I realized I was stuck in the wrong mind-set. We should all be able to go to the phone store with a list of needs and buy the phone that fits them. That is why Blackberry exists, after-all. I look at the third party apps (free and pay) on my phone and wonder how essential they are...they're not. Vindigo is the only one that comes close and I'm convinced google maps and a decent browser will render it horribly useless really soon. I mean, I actually pay for Vindigo every year?!? I'm finally embarrassed about that.

    If there is a true need for a robust third party application platform then Palm should open source PalmOS so someone else can fix it and create something that developers can write decent software for. But to hold Palm up as some kind of third party software mecca is a serious joke.
    01-11-2007 07:17 PM
  11. MacUser's Avatar
    Still waiting for built-in wifi and BT 2.0 from Palm. :shake:
    Well, you can get all that with an iPhone in June...I know you want to check one out
    01-11-2007 07:19 PM
  12. bclinger#IM's Avatar
    Me-too products? it is the other way around. The iPhone does not radically change the data-centric phone market. There is no way anyone could possibly consider it to be a serious work device at its current stage.

    As for expecting it to begin with Palm - the Treo series meets the needs of many users and with the appropriate third party applications, it meeds the needs of many more. People like myself for instance - I have a 650 and 700p that are very stable, used in a work environment and still are able to handle entertainment needs. There is nothing the iPhone does that the Treo cannot do. I want a work oriented device, not a music oriented device.

    Ben

    For years we have sucked it up and bought Palm's me-too products. And walked by the display cases showing Palm PDA's from 5 years ago still on sale for outrageous prices. Now we see an opening salvo that is going to radically change the data-centric phone market. I got over my disappointment that this device wasn't coming from Palm really quick because I never expected it would be Palm to begin with.
    01-11-2007 07:19 PM
  13. sinebubble's Avatar
    My lovely wife has had three Blackberry phones and was very happy to get my 650 when I up'd to a 700p. She did also complain about the lack of third party apps and the cost of those apps. So, that is a problem. When you buy your Blackberry and similar type of phone, try to get an application that does better than the built in one - and frankly, we all are that way. We want more. At least with the Treo you can get more. You cannot with many other phones.

    As for Blackberry email, it holds nothing to ChatterEmail.

    I frankly have a problem with someone buying a product, hating it and still keeping it. The Treo does more than the Blackberry and most other devices out there. As for ease of use, tell me why the Treo scores as high as it does? An archaic operating system? It works and it works well. Many of us do not need multitasking. My 700p is a work device - hours a day with HanDBase, a couple of hours a week with DTG, email between 6:45-10P 7 days a week. It is also a relaxing device - eReader, a couple of games, music, Internet music, IM, et cetera.

    Ben
    Ben, I don't hate my Treo. I just feel that I have been wasting my money on a platform that took a lot of my money to give me the same thing over and over again (I have bought 4 Treos in the last 3 years). And now I feel this massive disappointment because I see what is possible, rather than focusing on what I was given. That's an important distinction.

    When I spend $300 -$600 on a data-centric phone, I do not think it unreasonable that I'm getting a innovative and productive application suite. With that in mind, there is, IMO, no way anyone could claim Palm lives up to that expectation. Tasks, Memo, Versamail, PocketTunes, Contacts, Blazer, etc do not compare favorably with the apps Apple demonstrated on iPhone. Who wants to surf the web with Blazer? But I know I would with the iPhones Safari. And looking at Apple's fast progress with MacOSX, I have no doubt that they will be providing a much more robust support path than Palm.

    Ben, I admit that it would be ideal if there is a robust third-party app ecosystem for any device. However, a recent (this week?) web article asked several Palm developers to provide their opinions of the state of development for PalmOS. It was clear that the PalmOS development platform was seriously lacking. Chattermail is great, but $60 to connect to my companies Exchange server?!? That's why I used clunky Versamail to do the same task. And most of those other apps you mentioned will be included with the iPhone. Yes, too bad I won't be able to install PalmMAME. But I'll take what Apple showed us any day over PalmMAME (sorry PalmMAME).

    I'm going to shed a tear of disappointment each one of the 10 times a day I have to open Vindigo and chop my way around the awful interface...
    01-11-2007 07:41 PM
  14. sinebubble's Avatar
    Me-too products? it is the other way around. The iPhone does not radically change the data-centric phone market. There is no way anyone could possibly consider it to be a serious work device at its current stage.

    As for expecting it to begin with Palm - the Treo series meets the needs of many users and with the appropriate third party applications, it meeds the needs of many more. People like myself for instance - I have a 650 and 700p that are very stable, used in a work environment and still are able to handle entertainment needs. There is nothing the iPhone does that the Treo cannot do. I want a work oriented device, not a music oriented device.

    Ben
    Yes, "me-too". I say that because I honestly believe Palm cannot innovate. I've stated why I believe that previously. No reason to re-hash it.

    Data-centric phone does not mean work phone. Will companies adopt the iPhone? Probably not. They will continue to use Blackberries and Windows Mobile devices. And those same companies typically have rules denying the use of third-part apps on their corporate phones.

    Those makers of those devices will only see a small dip in their market share or none at all. It's PalmOS that is at risk, however. The PalmOS is primarily a consumer OS, so once the heat gets turned up on them by Apple and Apple's competiters (Sony, Nokia, Moto), they will likely abandon PalmOS and focus on the Windows Mobile market. Once they abandon the consumer market, they are going to have to be far more aggressive in the Windows Mobile market to make up the difference. There are a lot of sharks in that pool, too, but their development costs should be lower than the consumer market, at least.

    My Treo is not an *official* work device. My company will not sanction its use due to crippled security with the blackberry connect software.

    Ben, I'm sure your phone works great for you. It works for me as well. However, it's the same device for the last 3 -4 years. The same hardware with minor tweaks, the same 1990's OS. Palm can't take it to the next level. I'm tired of paying Porsche prices for last year's Saturn.
    01-11-2007 07:56 PM
  15. Certs's Avatar
    -Now we can hold Palm to a higher standard

    -Now Palm has no excuses

    -The iPhone may set a precedent that allows less meddling by Carriers with regards to the functionality of the phone which should allow Palm to better innovate.
    Carriers prevent Palm from innovating??? Sounds like someone ELSE is making excuses for Palm! Cingular/Sprint/Verizon didn't ask for half of a BT stack, or a 240x240 screen. I could see the wifi part (barely), but everything else is just absurd
    01-11-2007 10:48 PM
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