1. samkim's Avatar
    Too much hype and hysteria, IMO.

    It's definitely an awesome phone, and it'll sell well, but it's mostly indirect competition for the Treo. The iPhone is a music phone.

    For business users, the data entry is poor. Among the Treo's competitive advantages are one-handed operation and tactile feedback with one of the best keyboards on a smartphone. It's amazing how Steve can convince people that lack of a keyboard and stylus is a good thing. Note that in the keynote, Steve mentioned the calendar app as a key component, but skipped right past it in the demo. He only showed a quick screenshot. I wonder why? Imagine trying to enter appointments or take notes with the iPhone. Like a lot of devices with poor data entry, you'll be best off typing into your PC and syncing.

    As for the consumer smartphone market, Palm's strategy is to reach the masses who want mobile email with lower-cost smartphones. Apple is not going to reach the same people. Journalists have speculated that Apple doesn't want carriers to subsidize the phone. I think the truth is that Cingular realizes that the masses are not going to sign up for the expensive data plans that help subsidize other smartphones. Most iPhone buyers will use it to just replace their iPod and cellphone with one device. And unless Cingular introduces a budget data plan for widgets and email only, the keyboard will primarily be limited to SMS.

    I think Colligan had it right when he said that it's not easy getting smartphones right. The iPhone hit a home run as a music phone (and that market is huge), but as with all Apple products, it's not going to do great in the business market. My opinion.
    01-10-2007 05:11 PM
  2. NextDream's Avatar
    Too much hype and hysteria, IMO.

    It's definitely an awesome phone, and it'll sell well, but it's mostly indirect competition for the Treo. The iPhone is a music phone.

    For business users, the data entry is poor. Among the Treo's competitive advantages are one-handed operation and tactile feedback with one of the best keyboards on a smartphone. It's amazing how Steve can convince people that lack of a keyboard and stylus is a good thing. Note that in the keynote, Steve mentioned the calendar app as a key component, but skipped right past it in the demo. He only showed a quick screenshot. I wonder why? Imagine trying to enter appointments or take notes with the iPhone. Like a lot of devices with poor data entry, you'll be best off typing into your PC and syncing.

    As for the consumer smartphone market, Palm's strategy is to reach the masses who want mobile email with lower-cost smartphones. Apple is not going to reach the same people. Journalists have speculated that Apple doesn't want carriers to subsidize the phone. I think the truth is that Cingular realizes that the masses are not going to sign up for the expensive data plans that help subsidize other smartphones. Most iPhone buyers will use it to just replace their iPod and cellphone with one device. And unless Cingular introduces a budget data plan for widgets and email only, the keyboard will primarily be limited to SMS.

    I think Colligan had it right when he said that it's not easy getting smartphones right. The iPhone hit a home run as a music phone (and that market is huge), but as with all Apple products, it's not going to do great in the business market. My opinion.

    I wonder if I could get a free phone from Palm by volunteering to be their cheerleader(during these hard times) in online chat rooms.....

    Just a thought.
    01-10-2007 06:37 PM
  3. KRamsauer's Avatar
    I wonder if I could get a free phone from Palm by volunteering to be their cheerleader(during these hard times) in online chat rooms.....

    Just a thought.
    Probably not.

    It isn't the iPhone by itself which will present a problem for Palm -- they are more business than that. And it isn't the Blackberry that presents a problem -- they are more personal than that. However, between those two goalposts, I'm not sure there's enough room for a standalone smartphone maker, especially as the goalposts grow closer...
    01-10-2007 06:44 PM
  4. samkim's Avatar
    I wonder if I could get a free phone from Palm by volunteering to be their cheerleader(during these hard times) in online chat rooms.....

    Just a thought.
    I like to stay in touch with reality. As I said, I think the iPhone is an awesome device. I wish Palm could design as well as Apple.

    I'm just pointing out that the iPhone, as wonderful as it is, is actually not targeted at the same market as the Treo. You're not going to see IT managers buying up iPhones for their businesses. People who try to use the iPhone primarily for email or calendar will be frustrated as hell. The browser will likely be used mostly on WiFi networks because most iPhone buyers will NOT subscribe to a data plan. Tell me if you actually disagree with anything I've said.
    01-10-2007 07:26 PM
  5. oalvarez's Avatar
    i absolutely agree. it's not to say that it won't be capable of fulfilling business purposes and needs, it just won't be as effective and efficient in doing so. if the virtual keyboard will be anything like the ones we've seen on other devices it just doesn't stand a chance at fulfilling data entry needs in a functional manner.

    will it make a tremendous secondary phone for the serious business user? absolutely.
    01-10-2007 07:34 PM
  6. scotttreo's Avatar
    I think we have to see and try the phone.
    When the iPod was released it was the same issue for people: Too expensive. there are already plenty of other players. UI wasn't totally clear. etc.
    I think you'll be seeing a number of executives requesting iPhones which may open up some of the iT departments as much as theyd hate to do it.
    01-10-2007 08:23 PM
  7. samkim's Avatar
    When the iPod was released it was the same issue for people: Too expensive. there are already plenty of other players. UI wasn't totally clear. etc.
    Different issue. The iPod wasn't positioned as a business device. (And its use in companies as a training tool today is still a niche market.)

    I think you'll be seeing a number of executives requesting iPhones which may open up some of the iT departments as much as theyd hate to do it.
    Sure, they can request them...
    01-10-2007 10:05 PM
  8. oalvarez's Avatar
    Too much hype and hysteria, IMO.
    no, it's a well thought out device that will appeal to mainstream america for the feature set that it offers.

    soccer mommy's and daddy coaches will love this thing as will most all other "non-power users" (which i continue to think is less and less with the exception of a few on here).

    it will fly and the market is telling you so.
    01-10-2007 10:26 PM
  9. Chatter's Avatar
    I don't know. Palm has a very small niche in the phone market, because most people, well, most people want a phone, not a swiss-army knife. Whether this kind of fancy thing has mass-market potential is questionable.

    Marc
    01-10-2007 10:46 PM
  10. oalvarez's Avatar
    exactly. this, treocentral, is a microcosm (but perhaps one that is heard) of the pda universe. in other words, it is not an accurate or significant statistical sample. when you omit all posters with 50 or less posts it even becomes less significant.

    treocentral while powerful is not the mass market, it's just a few of us.
    01-10-2007 11:06 PM
  11. Treo Rat's Avatar
    I don't know. Palm has a very small niche in the phone market, because most people, well, most people want a phone, not a swiss-army knife. Whether this kind of fancy thing has mass-market potential is questionable.

    Marc
    You might be understimating the Mac market. It's bigger than you think and they're quite fanatical (and supportive) over the Mac OS and their Apple devices (toys?). I'm one of them. That market alone will likely give Apple their estimate of 10 million iPhones sold by 2008.

    I've been loyal to the Palm OS for a long time and was eagerly waiting for a Treo with WiFi but I doubt if Coligan would be able to convince the carriers to allow him this feature in his lifetime.

    By June, like possibly many of the Mac/Treo users here, I will be officially out of here.:cry:
    01-10-2007 11:17 PM
  12. MacUser's Avatar
    I like to stay in touch with reality. As I said, I think the iPhone is an awesome device. I wish Palm could design as well as Apple.

    I'm just pointing out that the iPhone, as wonderful as it is, is actually not targeted at the same market as the Treo. You're not going to see IT managers buying up iPhones for their businesses. People who try to use the iPhone primarily for email or calendar will be frustrated as hell. The browser will likely be used mostly on WiFi networks because most iPhone buyers will NOT subscribe to a data plan. Tell me if you actually disagree with anything I've said.
    I'll have my Cingular unlimited data plan, so I guess I disagree. Sure, the wifi will be nice, but I'll often be out of range of one and need a data connection.
    01-10-2007 11:24 PM
  13. MacUser's Avatar
    You might be understimating the Mac market. It's bigger than you think and they're quite fanatical (and supportive) over the Mac OS and their Apple devices (toys?). I'm one of them. That market alone will likely give Apple their estimate of 10 million iPhones sold by 2008.

    I've been loyal to the Palm OS for a long time and was eagerly waiting for a Treo with WiFi but I doubt if Coligan would be able to convince the carriers to allow him this feature in his lifetime.

    By June, like possibly many of the Mac/Treo users here, I will be officially out of here.:cry:
    He speaks the truth. I know a lot of Mac users that rallied around Palm OS and Treos because of the anti-Windows Mobile feel. Now that there's something a little closer to home...

    I think Palm is seriously going to have to raise their bar...
    01-10-2007 11:41 PM
  14. oalvarez's Avatar
    does that make all of you "until june" posters, trolls and bashers?

    01-10-2007 11:48 PM
  15. samkim's Avatar
    no, it's a well thought out device that will appeal to mainstream america for the feature set that it offers.

    soccer mommy's and daddy coaches will love this thing as will most all other "non-power users" (which i continue to think is less and less with the exception of a few on here).

    it will fly and the market is telling you so.
    I agree that it's a great product that will sell very well in the mass consumer market.
    01-11-2007 12:37 AM
  16. samkim's Avatar
    You might be understimating the Mac market. It's bigger than you think and they're quite fanatical (and supportive) over the Mac OS and their Apple devices (toys?). I'm one of them. That market alone will likely give Apple their estimate of 10 million iPhones sold by 2008.
    I think it's the iPod base that Apple is appealing to.
    01-11-2007 12:41 AM
  17. KRamsauer's Avatar
    I think you'll be seeing a number of executives requesting iPhones which may open up some of the iT departments as much as theyd hate to do it.
    Not too sure about that. Yes, a lot of people would be curious, but the lack of a keyboard and the lack of any sort of secure email (Yahoo? Yeah right. GE is going to turn over their email to Yahoo) will keep this completely absent from the business world for a while. On the other hand, I would love to see the look on a clients face when two businesses show up, one checking his blackberry and the other his ipod...
    01-11-2007 10:08 AM
  18. KRamsauer's Avatar
    The browser will likely be used mostly on WiFi networks because most iPhone buyers will NOT subscribe to a data plan. Tell me if you actually disagree with anything I've said.
    There is no way Cingular lets this out the door without a really really really expensive plan (read: data). They have consumers over a barrel and they know it.
    01-11-2007 10:09 AM
  19. KRamsauer's Avatar
    I think Palm is seriously going to have to raise their bar...
    And that is a positive not only for all of us, but for all users.
    01-11-2007 10:10 AM
  20. jbinbi's Avatar
    As I said on another post, its a great piece of technology. What will limit it is that it is tied to cingular, and many people are tied into their carriers. I have vzw with family plan. My 2 teenage sons have razr and ipods. They would love to have one device, and it would be an upgrade as they could surf web, take better pics, do email, etc.

    Am I going to throw away the $700 invested in current equip? No way. Would I spend $500 when contract expires? Maybe, but then part of family is on vzw and part on cingular. Calls to each now cost.

    If apple gets this onto vzw, then by the time new every 2 comes up, i probably would get at least my kids this. ipods for teens probably the same life of a phone, so a combo device is probably worth having more features in a single device.

    Consider how many people have razr (or some phone like that)/ipod. As they are eligible for new phone, how many would change to iphone. I would bet a ton. Cingular is going to get alot of business from this.

    Compare how many Treos there are vs. ipods or even razrs? Treos are for power users. We are a superset of the iPhone. The question is, how many have Treos that just use what the iPhone has, and not all the features of a Treo? Those Treo users will jump ship, leaving a smaller and smaller base.

    Palm needs to get with it, making a slimmer, sleeker, newer (not just the tiny revs we see between 650-->700 upgrade). It can be viable.

    I think if you took a Q, added a better music interface with big SD card, you have something that could compete with iphone since there is such a big price diff.
    01-11-2007 10:51 AM
  21. skfny's Avatar
    Sprint SERO + Treo 700p OR
    Cingular (data plan more expensive than entire SERO) with iPhone AND lose dozens of POS apps that just work so well... hmm

    The iPhone will be the most popular smartphone on the market. It will draw in more people into the smartphone concept, but I don't see it capturing a large segment of the POS or (specially) WM installed user bases. Seriously, how long do you think it will take for HTC to copy this design, fix some oversights, and slap WM on it?
    01-11-2007 10:55 AM
  22. samkim's Avatar
    There is no way Cingular lets this out the door without a really really really expensive plan (read: data). They have consumers over a barrel and they know it.
    Cingular has said that they will require a two-year contract to even purchase the iPhone. I think that's as far as they can push people. IMO, requiring an expensive data plan on top of that would put this out of reach of the masses. An optional $8/mo budget data plan? Maybe. Mandatory $50/mo data? No way.
    01-11-2007 11:48 AM
  23. KRamsauer's Avatar
    Cingular has said that they will require a two-year contract to even purchase the iPhone. I think that's as far as they can push people. IMO, requiring an expensive data plan on top of that would put this out of reach of the masses. An optional $8/mo budget data plan? Maybe. Mandatory $50/mo data? No way.
    We'll see. As high as the price tag is, I'd imagine there's still quite a loss to make up for through monthly charges...
    01-11-2007 11:50 AM
  24. littlewaywelt's Avatar
    This phone is going to appeal to almost everyone. Power users of smartphone type products are very small %-wise. Most use little of the phone's capability. The iPhone will do 95% of what 95% of the public needs & wants. Simple mobile email, web browsing and contact management & scheduling, coupled with a phenomenal form factor, elegant factor, cool factor and media capability.

    To the first poster that said this device would replace iPods, that's simply not true. It's far too small storage-wise and too big size-wise to replace most people's ipods.

    I'm guessing this phone will be more popular than iPods. It will bring mobile email and web to a much broader group and a more important group than the biz community or power user community.
    01-11-2007 12:02 PM
  25. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Too much hype and hysteria, IMO.

    It's definitely an awesome phone, and it'll sell well, but it's mostly indirect competition for the Treo. The iPhone is a music phone.

    For business users, the data entry is poor. Among the Treo's competitive advantages are one-handed operation and tactile feedback with one of the best keyboards on a smartphone. It's amazing how Steve can convince people that lack of a keyboard and stylus is a good thing. Note that in the keynote, Steve mentioned the calendar app as a key component, but skipped right past it in the demo. He only showed a quick screenshot. I wonder why? Imagine trying to enter appointments or take notes with the iPhone. Like a lot of devices with poor data entry, you'll be best off typing into your PC and syncing.

    As for the consumer smartphone market, Palm's strategy is to reach the masses who want mobile email with lower-cost smartphones. Apple is not going to reach the same people. Journalists have speculated that Apple doesn't want carriers to subsidize the phone. I think the truth is that Cingular realizes that the masses are not going to sign up for the expensive data plans that help subsidize other smartphones. Most iPhone buyers will use it to just replace their iPod and cellphone with one device. And unless Cingular introduces a budget data plan for widgets and email only, the keyboard will primarily be limited to SMS.

    I think Colligan had it right when he said that it's not easy getting smartphones right. The iPhone hit a home run as a music phone (and that market is huge), but as with all Apple products, it's not going to do great in the business market. My opinion.
    Did Jobs even say this was a smartphone for business? I'm not sure I heard him say that. So I didn't expect it to replace a serious smartphone anyway.
    01-11-2007 12:05 PM
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