1. archie's Avatar
    One BIG dislike.

    1. No OTA syncing. What are they thinking?

    The only thing I can imagine that may happen here is that once .Mac is updated and announced, they will allow for cellular based syncing to .Mac services. Still; If this is the case, WHAT WERE THEY THINKING!



    Now for my many likey-likes.

    1. Mac friendly. (Eat it Palm)

    2. Context sensitive keyboard that pops up when needed. This is extremely useful and really well done.

    3. Bizarre and unheard of concepts like "touching your music" and "Visual Voicemail" actually make sense in using the iPhone.

    4. The iPhone screen faade can actually be quickly and simply wiped clean with its unique edgeless design. This is to say nothing of the specially selected screen material chosen for use with grimy, greasy fingers.

    5. 5 hours of battery life for talk/video/bwrowsing; 16 hours for audio playback. Note that this is with wi-fi and bluetooth going at the same time. This is unbelievable performance.

    6. Two-finger zooming gesture

    7. Two-finger pinching gesture

    8. One-finger scrolling gesture

    9. One-finger swiping gesture

    10. THE BEST mobile browsing experience. Period. . . . I... I mean period

    11. Push-IMAP support, not that IDLE stuff or the fake pushing either.

    12. Coolest implementation of Google Maps I have ever seen.

    13. Easiest Conference call-management I have ever seen.

    14. The keyboard - I know a little bit about what they are doing to make this unique keyboard a success. Every little space on that screen is tracking and measuring and relating to every other little space. There is a great deal of processing power required JUST for the simple act of typing. And reading how your finger hits the screen and what part of your finger hits first and the total amount of space that it hits — all in an effort to account for inaccuracies. There is a lot of research that has been done here. They even take into account a person's inability to accurately predict what part of their finger actually hits the screen. You see, it seems that we fail to take into account the curve of our finger and how it actually hits the screen based on the overhead view we have in watching the screen as we type. To this end, they also enlarge the keys as our finger approaches the screen (not yet touching) so that our brain can have some verification. Then of course there is the software based auto-correcting type of feature that analyzes which keys you MIGHT have meant to hit and figures out the word you wanted.

    15. With all this, this phone device still holds an incredible amount of "potential". By this, I mean to say it can bring yet even more to the table.

    This is evidenced by even just looking at the initial screen shots (probably purposefully done for marketing reasons). You can see that there is so much more room for other widgets to be loaded. As if to say, "This phone will take us into the future." For example; it seems logical they will convert FileMaker Mobile, which I bought for the Palm OS about 5 years ago, so that it will run on the iPhone.

    And then there is the obvious move to implement interfacing with the iPod. I mean they have to keep the sales of these going too, right? How else but to allow each device to cover for the others shortcomings. In the future we may be able to plug in high capacity (30, 40, 60, 80, even 100 GB) iPods to transfer content to and from an iPhone. I doing so, Apple will be enhancing the usefulness of each of these separate products and pushing sales when considering a "Halo" type of affect.
    01-10-2007 03:50 PM
  2. Chatter's Avatar
    Archie - I see no reference to anything other than standard IMAP IDLE (which is EXACTLY what push-imap is, with a few enhancements); you act as though it's something completely new and revolutionary. And it's with Yahoo - ugh.

    Marc
    01-10-2007 04:02 PM
  3. archie's Avatar
    Archie - I see no reference to anything other than standard IMAP IDLE (which is EXACTLY what push-imap is, with a few enhancements); you act as though it's something completely new and revolutionary. And it's with Yahoo - ugh.

    Marc
    Are you still beating this... did you not see my response from the other thread?

    IMAP IDLE differs from Push-IMAP in that it reduces the time and effort needed to synchronize messages. It uses as little bandwidth as possible by using compression and command macros. The emails just GO to the phone. Yahoo!'s service is Push-IMAP. And its FREE... for iPhone users only!

    I pulled this info from wikipedia. Check it out.
    01-10-2007 04:08 PM
  4. Malatesta's Avatar
    10. THE BEST mobile browsing experience. Period. . . . I... I mean period
    You act like you've used it already.

    Sheesh, you watched a commercial for the product. I can't say I was blown away by the 30 second download of the NY Times...on Wifi nonetheless.

    How do you think that browser is going to operate on EDGE? Jobs says we don't have "those baby or WAP browsers", which is cool but the reason we had those browsers was b/c data speeds lagged behind. This does nothing to address that.

    But I final reserve judgment till you know...it actually comes out.
    01-10-2007 04:10 PM
  5. bcaslis#IM's Avatar
    Watch the keynote on Apple's site. You can see how the UI works. It's an hour of iPhone working not a few seconds. Watch and then say you aren't impressed.
    01-10-2007 04:18 PM
  6. Chatter's Avatar
    Archie - sorry, but you're no expert on email or IMAP.

    Marc
    01-10-2007 04:18 PM
  7. mobileman's Avatar
    I have a feeling that "Push Imap" is just a sexy way of saying IDLE Imap support. If thats the case, I wonder if this will only work with yahoo.

    Marc, I thought I would be the first to ask, when is iChatter coming out?
    01-10-2007 04:22 PM
  8. Malatesta's Avatar
    Watch the keynote on Apple's site. You can see how the UI works. It's an hour of iPhone working not a few seconds. Watch and then say you aren't impressed.
    Are you implying I'm not impressed or that I didn't watch the grandstanding for an hour? It took a long time to fully download that NY Times page on Wifi.

    The device is nice. But if it can't do email doc attachments, it has only 2g data, Cingular is way more expensive than Sprint (I'd be almost doubling my monthly bill) and I'd actually loose service that's not something I am interested in. I like my Slingplayer, I like my Google/Skype VOIP.

    Maybe if it were Sprint with RevA (or Wimax). But no I'm not interested in this.
    01-10-2007 04:24 PM
  9. stroths's Avatar
    Marc is an expert on IMAP considering his Chatter background, so I have to defer to him on this one.

    On another note, I think the Palm Treo 950 running ALP offers the best browsing experience ever.
    01-10-2007 04:25 PM
  10. archie's Avatar
    Marc is an expert on IMAP considering his Chatter background, so I have to defer to him on this one.
    I don't doubt that. I am just repeating what was explained at the keynote... and also referencing wikipedia for the more technical explanation. I just cut and paste. So don't proclaim that I (along with the rest of the world) must be wrong because I am saying something taht you don't want to hear (I guess this is just like every other time I post here at TreoCentral so not really surprised).
    01-10-2007 04:36 PM
  11. treo_md's Avatar
    Are you implying I'm not impressed or that I didn't watch the grandstanding for an hour? It took a long time to fully download that NY Times page on Wifi.

    I just tried loading NY times on my 2.5x2 G5 Powermac over a 5 Mbs cable connection. Took about the same amount of time. NYTimes is just a huge resource hog, and it takes a lot of time to download and render.
    01-10-2007 04:41 PM
  12. lardawge's Avatar
    I just tried loading NY times on my 2.5x2 G5 Powermac over a 5 Mbs cable connection. Took about the same amount of time. NYTimes is just a huge resource hog, and it takes a lot of time to download and render.

    ??? Just did it on mine (Quad G5) 2 seconds tops.
    01-10-2007 04:55 PM
  13. surur's Avatar
    Ive watched that very long and drawn out keynote, and I'm not impressed. Its a very good media player, but its no smartphone.

    Archie seems very convinced that the UI is very well suited to mobile use, but having to use two hands ALL the time seems far from ideal. You even have to look at the screen to answer the phone, else you may accidentally ignore the call.

    Archie talks about the wonderful intelligent text entry, but Steve made plenty or errors, typed slowly, and there did not seem any other options of text entry.

    This clearly is not a device for people who generate content on the move, even those short SMS messages seemed painful.

    Isnt the very same Safari browser in the E61?

    As Ive mentioned in another thread, Archie must be using his device for hardly anything at all, if he finds the IPhone so compelling.

    Surur
    01-10-2007 04:57 PM
  14. Malatesta's Avatar
    I just tried loading NY times on my 2.5x2 G5 Powermac over a 5 Mbs cable connection. Took about the same amount of time. NYTimes is just a huge resource hog, and it takes a lot of time to download and render.
    4 seconds on my 2.5 year old XP system.

    Either way, that was on Wifi. EDGE won't be as forgiving. I'm all for full browsers on mobile devices(to an extent, not psyched about ads really) but there was a reason for not having one on the 2g networks.

    Both in the onstage demo and during my hands-on hour, the Web speed was OK—not great, but OK. But all of this used the phone’s built-in Wi-Fi, not Cingular’s notoriously slow Edge network. I couldn’t help wondering how bad the speed will be when you’re connecting over the cellular airwaves. (Here again, though, I was playing with a prototype whose software will undergo a lot of fine-tuning between now and June.)
    link

    Maybe it'll be super awesome, maybe not. Either way I don't want to pay Cingular's data plans, so I'm out. It's just a step backwards for me.
    01-10-2007 05:00 PM
  15. Chatter's Avatar
    Archie - The problem on message boards, generally, is that people think they are experts because they read an article. I understand that you're taking your info from wikipedia, but you're not interpreting it properly. (I also think you misinterpreted what Apple was actually saying, by the way; they never said push-imap as opposed to "push IMAP", as far as I know).

    So I think it's fair to say that you are mistaken. And this has nothing to do with what I want to hear; it really has to do with what YOU want to hear!

    Marc
    01-10-2007 05:06 PM
  16. Malatesta's Avatar
    Yahoo!'s service is Push-IMAP. And its FREE... for iPhone users only!
    Actually, with Yahoo's GO! service (Version 2 out now for nokia, WM5 version around the corner), Yahoo has been offering free push email for awhile. Nothing big there. Also, Windows Live! for WM5 offers free push Hotmail too (betas have been floating around for months).
    01-10-2007 05:19 PM
  17. archie's Avatar
    Archie - The problem on message boards, generally, is that people think they are experts
    Yeah. I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN.
    I wasn't claiming to be an expert. I was merely expressing my excitement for this new product. It is you staking the territory of being an expert here on this message board. And I understand why now.

    I understand that you're taking your info from wikipedia, but you're not interpreting it properly. (I also think you misinterpreted what Apple was actually saying, by the way; they never said push-imap as opposed to "push IMAP", as far as I know).
    Apple AND Yahoo! press releases specifically say "Push IMAP". That is a capital "P".

    They also specifically say it will be free for iPhone customers only, which is also to infer that it is Push IMAP and not the other stuff you are claiming, which is freely available to anyone.
    01-10-2007 05:23 PM
  18. archie's Avatar
    Actually, with Yahoo's GO! service (Version 2 out now for nokia, WM5 version around the corner), Yahoo has been offering free push email for awhile. Nothing big there. Also, Windows Live! for WM5 offers free push Hotmail too (betas have been floating around for months).
    Ah yes, I found the press release... issued 22 hours ago. Ah, the fast paced tech market that we live in.
    01-10-2007 05:29 PM
  19. Certs's Avatar
    You're 1 big DISLIKE is OTA syncing? Does EDGE not matter to you?

    Cingular is the ONLY company right now offereing voice/data simultaneously, and Apple cannot take advantage of this. Unbelievable.

    Picture taking a Mercedes SL65 AMG, and putting a 4 cylinder motor in it. All that handling, all that cornering capability, gone to waist. Sotrry but that's how I feel about this phone until a 3G version comes out.

    Other than that, this phone is ABSOLUTELY AMAZING. To be fair.
    01-10-2007 06:46 PM
  20. oalvarez's Avatar
    one thing my friends/enemies: i do like where Archie is coming from in that some of it feels like a breath of fresh air, not so Treo-centric. i also agree with him in that so many in this place only want to hear the positive and will defend themselves and the Treo brand til the end.

    the Treo does work for many purposes but it's the oldest and most stale piece of technology out there. that doesn't mean that it isn't any good it just means that there is SOOOOO much more out there that can do the same if not even better in a more pocketable fashion. ya, not one device suits everyone's needs but the more stodgy folk around here need to open their eyes and invest the initial $ to try out more devices for themselves.

    i like Archie in that he's coming from a different angle and has a different approach. lets not bang on him for doing such. i remember getting flamed for saying that there would be many, many more 680's being returned along with mine given its misgivings, then came the "you're just a troll/basher, etc.." i'd hardly say that the 680 was a resounding success and was correct in saying there would be a great number of returns.

    i'll get off my soapbox now
    01-10-2007 08:34 PM
  21. Chatter's Avatar
    Archie - Push IMAP has been available for many years (in Chatter alone for 3 1/2 years). There's no such thing as a trademark for "Push IMAP".

    Marc
    01-10-2007 08:34 PM
  22. surur's Avatar
    one thing my friends/enemies: i do like where Archie is coming from in that some of it feels like a breath of fresh air, not so Treo-centric. i also agree with him in that so many in this place only want to hear the positive and will defend themselves and the Treo brand til the end.
    I dont think its that way that much, not as much as the Apple fanboys are pushing in the opposite direction.

    The fact is the IPhone is a very slick device, but deficient in many many ways (3rd party support, text entry, features such as GPS, HSDPA etc) and therefore for most applications, except video and music, and maybe web, the Treo's are actually objectively better right now.

    Now if Archie came along and said 'Iphone is a much better multimedia phone than the Treo will ever ever be" than that would be easily defensible, but what he is saying its a better device that the Treo is right now, and that is just not true. It may be a better device for him, but he has steadfastly refused to say what his requirements are. One wonders why he was using a smartphone in the first place if 3rd party apps were not important to him. He and others seems intent to hype everyone of Job's words (e.g. the push imap story, the wonderful adaptive keyboard story and lack of need for one handed use, tactile feedback, no UMTS in the model he would lock himself in a two year contract in etc). If Palm tried to pull the same thing people would be much more skeptical.

    Now everyone is impressed by the flash and glamour of the UI of the IPhone, but unless you just want to meld your razor and Ipod it falls far short of the industry smartphone standard at the moment, especially at the price.

    Its style over function in the end, which is typical Apple.

    Surur
    01-10-2007 09:19 PM
  23. oalvarez's Avatar
    3rd party support: a thing of the ages

    flash and glamour: yes, product design means a ton. has anyone ever wondered why they buy/don't buy certain clothes, cars and the like?

    the treos out of the box (with the exception of the raised keyboard) will do not much more than the i-phone. why? because given the osx platform available to them and the like, they'd be crazy not to include the more popular pda feature set. they will have what it takes to develop a solid and well thought out device.

    apple is thinking in the right way. palm is not.
    01-10-2007 10:15 PM
  24. Tom Jefferson's Avatar
    Archie / Chatter... get a room.
    01-11-2007 08:07 AM
  25. mobileman's Avatar
    3rd party support: a thing of the ages

    flash and glamour: yes, product design means a ton. has anyone ever wondered why they buy/don't buy certain clothes, cars and the like?

    the treos out of the box (with the exception of the raised keyboard) will do not much more than the i-phone. why? because given the osx platform available to them and the like, they'd be crazy not to include the more popular pda feature set. they will have what it takes to develop a solid and well thought out device.

    apple is thinking in the right way. palm is not.
    Well then, there better be 1rst party support for the following, or no iPhone (cisco trademark) for me.
    1. Exchange/Outlook sync
    2. IM program (I have a bad feeling Cingular wont allow this)
    3. MS office attachement support
    01-11-2007 08:49 AM
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