Archie's 1 BIG "Dislike" of the iPhone and 15 "Likes"

archie

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You know 22 seconds to download all of the NYT during that demo compared to 10 seconds on my 5Mb desktop connection isn't bad.
 

Woof

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Not to continue the pissing match, but gee archie get real. If Marc isn't an expert on IMAP, who is? If the creation and perfection of Chatter doesn't elevate him to expert nothing does.

Apple AND Yahoo! press releases specifically say "Push IMAP". That is a capital "P".

They also specifically say it will be free for iPhone customers only, which is also to infer that it is Push IMAP and not the other stuff you are claiming, which is freely available to anyone.

The fact that it can be configured for iphone customers only doesnt make it anything special. You thinking it does because you read a press release only says that you believe alot stuff just cause you read it. I could put a capital B on bs and it doesnt make it a new kind of bs.
 

Chatter

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I still think the big stinker here will be battery life, but we'll see. A smallish battery, fast processor, and a hankering to browse or listen to music or get your mail pushed to you = less than a day of use for semi-power users and up.

Something to think about: These non power-users who Apple is aiming at (i.e. the consumer market); are they used to charging their phones every night? If they really take advantage of this phone, they will have to. Or will they then stop using those features and keep it as a phone so it will be usable for a few days...

Marc

p.s. I still want one (for looking at)
 

MacUser

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I still think the big stinker here will be battery life, but we'll see. A smallish battery, fast processor, and a hankering to browse or listen to music or get your mail pushed to you = less than a day of use for semi-power users and up.

Something to think about: These non power-users who Apple is aiming at (i.e. the consumer market); are they used to charging their phones every night? If they really take advantage of this phone, they will have to. Or will they then stop using those features and keep it as a phone so it will be usable for a few days...
I know that I have an iPod charger in my car, on my desk at my office and one at home. I'm thinking most people have a second charger and would easily use it at least once a day to keep their iPod/cell phone/media player/mobile web browser charged.

Just my 2 cents.
 

mikec#IM

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gawd

Archie...you still here? It's seems just like yesterday I served you (or FITA, for you South Park fans) when you invented all sorts of lies about Apple.

Anyway, Marc is da man, and knows more about email than you ever hope to. He is an expert, and you are just a CAPper (cut and paster - quote sources without understanding them).

Marc, you have amazing patience and civility in your replies to him; I strive for such zen-ness.

As for the iPhone, yes, it's sexy and cool. I am sure people will by it. I prob will, just to have the gadget.

It's basically an Apple version of a combined Palm's Lifedrive, LG phone, with a little Sony PSP throw in for good measure, in a sexy package. It looks great and has nice features. I love the form factor.

But, the creaming of pants will subside...it's a long 6 months to June.

Here are the problems with it for those of us with live on the Treo:

1.) Non-replaceable battery - unacceptable in any phone. A phone is not an MP3 player. If my MP3 player runs out, I am annoyed, if my phone does, I am effed.

2.) Requires two hands to use effectively (one to hold phone, the other to use finger as stylus. Sure, you can use thumb, but that is a "limited" digit, so to speak).

The Treo can be used with one hand very well (as can most phones). This a something most people overlook.

3.) No Office integration, or loadable 3rd party apps. This is a big problem.

4.) Um...instant messaging? SMS is not IM...where's the Trillian app that will save the day?

As for 3G and the keyboard, I guess we will see. Wifi does not make up for EDGE, and Wifi is not as ubiquitous as some think. Sure when I am home and at work, I have it. (or at a Starbucks). but everywhere else, it's 2.5G or 3G.
I suspect a HSPDA upgrade down the road ala the Treo 750v.

And the price...$600 phone+1680 (2 years mimimal voice (40 plus tax) and data (20) =70 a month x 24 months) means close to $2300. That's a steep price for something whose battery will likely be dead before then.
 

archie

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Wolf, I did some checking and found that this free push email you are speaking of actually requires an application to sit on your phone which checks the yahoo e-mail account. This is not Push IMAP email technology of any sort.

...and I never said Chatter was not an expert. If you check back it was Chatter denouncing me as no expert - never having claimed to be.

Alll I said is that Yahoo was providing free Push IMAP email for iPhone customers and Chatter had to jump in to seemingly knock the iPhone down a few pegs or something to that affect.
 

archie

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Wolf,

I forgot to add in the post above taht I did find two free services but they were only free as a limited 1 month trial. Can you point me to what you were speaking of?
 

mikec#IM

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Wolf, I did some checking and found that this free push email you are speaking of actually requires an application to sit on your phone which checks the yahoo e-mail account. This is not Push IMAP email technology of any sort.

...and I never said Chatter was not an expert. If you check back it was Chatter denouncing me as no expert - never having claimed to be.

Alll I said is that Yahoo was providing free Push IMAP email for iPhone customers and Chatter had to jump in to seemingly knock the iPhone down a few pegs or something to that affect.

I think you should read

http://www.isode.com/whitepapers/imap-idle.html

"Push IMAP" and IMAP IDLE are one in the same. I am nearly 100% sure this is what the iPhone will use. "Push IMAP" just sounds better than "IMAP IDLE".

It will not be "True Push", for several reasons.

I read the post; you claim the iPhone has "true push...no that "fake stuff".
You elevated the iPhone, Marc corrected, and then you CAPpered with a Wiki article you didn't understand.
 

Malatesta

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Tell me how it long it takes to download the NYT on your mobile phone.
No no...you don't get to do that.

I'll tell you how fast on my mobile phone PLUS my Wifi connection since that is what Steve did: 24 seconds.

Now imagine loading that page over EDGE (I did it in about 38 seconds over EvDO, which blows EDGE out of the water)

But I would never browse the NY Times on any mobile device b/c it looks dumb! You're going to zoom and pan all over the place to read part of an article? Blah.

I use http://mobile.nytimes.com/ which is formatted for my Treo 700wx.

You know how long it takes me over EvDO to zip through each story?

4-7 seconds (depending on if there is a picture or not).

I get the entire story, no zooming or panning, no ads and perfectly legible because it was made for mobile browsing.

Once again, there is a reason we don't use "full browsers" on mobile devices: b/c you have to pan and scan all over, zoom here, format there, download ads. It's a waste and unbearable over 2g.

Screen008-1.png
Screen009.png


Screen001-7.png

Then tell me how long it takes to download it on your desktop connection.
You're kidding, right?

On my 2+ year old PC: 5 seconds flat.

That's not what Steve Jobs said today.
You're not getting it. Yes, there will be a 3g iPhone but not for at least 1 year. This current iPhone is not upgradable (so it seems) since it only has one radio.

You'll be stuck at 2g with this device while I have a cheaper data/voice plan and 3g now and 4g (Wimax) within 12-14 months.

And you'll never be able to do this on your iPhone v1, which is kind of sad.

By the way, some of us enjoyed the iPhone's layout so much we copied (for free to boot!) :p

iPhoneWM5.jpg
 

Woof

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these two posts prove what many have said about you reading but not understanding.
Wolf, I did .........

archie said:
Wolf,

I forgot to add........


Take a look just a bit to the left. You'll see the name is Woof. There is no L. It's in pretty big type too.

Seriously though, what the hell are talking about here?
archie said:
Wolf,

I forgot to add in the post above taht I did find two free services but they were only free as a limited 1 month trial. Can you point me to what you were speaking of?

I said nothing in my posts about trials or free services or anything like that.
 

Woof

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No no...you don't get to do that.

I'll tell you how fast on my mobile phone PLUS my Wifi connection since that is what Steve did: 24 seconds.

Now imagine loading that page over EDGE (I did it in about 38 seconds over EvDO, which blows EDGE out of the water)

But I would never browse the NY Times on any mobile device b/c it looks dumb! You're going to zoom and pan all over the place to read part of an article? Blah.

I use http://mobile.nytimes.com/ which is formatted for my Treo 700wx.

You know how long it takes me over EvDO to zip through each story?

4-7 seconds (depending on if there is a picture or not).

I get the entire story, no zooming or panning, no ads and perfectly legible because it was made for mobile browsing.

Once again, there is a reason we don't use "full browsers" on mobile devices: b/c you have to pan and scan all over, zoom here, format there, download ads. It's a waste and unbearable over 2g.

Screen008-1.png
Screen009.png


Screen001-7.png


You're kidding, right?

On my 2+ year old PC: 5 seconds flat.


You're not getting it. Yes, there will be a 3g iPhone but not for at least 1 year. This current iPhone is not upgradable (so it seems) since it only has one radio.

You'll be stuck at 2g with this device while I have a cheaper data/voice plan and 3g now and 4g (Wimax) within 12-14 months.

And you'll never be able to do this on your iPhone v1, which is kind of sad.

By the way, some of us enjoyed the iPhone's layout so much we copied (for free to boot!) :p

iPhoneWM5.jpg

ok Mal I want that!
 

Malatesta

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ok Mal I want that!
funny thing is, a lot of the WM5 community groans when they see those pics :D

but I think it's funny and kind of cool. I'm using the phonealarm skin which looks nice. Apple does have flare and style, that's for sure.

Screen007-1.png
 

archie

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My apologies Woof. It is hard keeping track of all the different people attacking me here. The question was meant for Malatesta.

Malatesta, I had said that I found two free services but they were only free as a limited 1 month trial. I then asked if you could point me to what you were speaking of?

Not a huge deal really. I'm loosing my inclination to post here any more.


Have fun guys.
 

Woof

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My apologies Woof. It is hard keeping track of all the different people attacking me here. The question was meant for Malatesta.

Malatesta, I had said that I found two free services but they were only free as a limited 1 month trial. I then asked if you could point me to what you were speaking of?

Not a huge deal really. I'm loosing my inclination to post here any more.


Have fun guys.

Apology accepted. Asides from the crack about getting my name wrong, I was barely attacking you. I was trying to make the point that when faced with the choice of a wikipedia article and a guy who has lived imap for better than three years, it would be wise to choose the latter. Seems like such a Duh! moment to me. Like taking the word of a book on heart surgery over the surgeon who has been operating on hearts for that last 3 1/2 years.

Also your post on why you think the iphone is so great was bound to draw critics and you know it. Stop whining about attacks. You as much as asked for contradicting opinions.
Not to mention youre spewing about a device 6 MONTHS away from the street like you have one in your hand. You saw a COMMERCIAL!!! I guess that means the new Suzuki suv is the best ever cause I saw a commercial last nite. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Lets wait til June before we get all tight in the shorts huh?

And
bcaslis said:
No kidding. It seems these forums seem to attract people who just want to slam anything not windows mobile based.

Are you flipping kidding? You are trying to turn this into a win vs mac argument? That barely deserves comment.:shake:
 

bigwalton

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The fact is the IPhone is a very slick device, but deficient in many many ways (3rd party support, text entry, features such as GPS, HSDPA etc) and therefore for most applications, except video and music, and maybe web, the Treo's are actually objectively better right now.

I'm an Apple "fanboy" but I agree with you in this statement when comparing the FIRST iphone to the (insert generation number here)th Treo.

I want one, but that's because I'm already on Cingular and would keep my Treo.

What's extrordinarily exciting for me though is to look at where the iPod has gone since the first version and take that development model and use it to forecast the iphone's future.

I'd offer that Apple developed (meaning made significant improvement) in the iPod faster than any company has developed a single device in the same timeframe AND MADE PEOPLE WANT THEM. I know people that have had each rev of the iPod (same with Palms, but many more for iPods).

If the iPod's gone from a 5GB music player with a pushbutton interface to a touch-controlled 80GB music/video player, what's the iphone going to be capable of in the same timeframe :D

Best part is that, unlike with the iPod (amazingly still to this day), there's real, established competitors who will have to try to compete and innovate ;)

That bodes VERY well for smartphones/prosumer/consumer phones in the near future.

Even as a Mac "fanboy", I sure hope Palm is one that keeps up!