Archie's 1 BIG "Dislike" of the iPhone and 15 "Likes"

surur

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one thing my friends/enemies: i do like where Archie is coming from in that some of it feels like a breath of fresh air, not so Treo-centric. i also agree with him in that so many in this place only want to hear the positive and will defend themselves and the Treo brand til the end.

I dont think its that way that much, not as much as the Apple fanboys are pushing in the opposite direction.

The fact is the IPhone is a very slick device, but deficient in many many ways (3rd party support, text entry, features such as GPS, HSDPA etc) and therefore for most applications, except video and music, and maybe web, the Treo's are actually objectively better right now.

Now if Archie came along and said 'Iphone is a much better multimedia phone than the Treo will ever ever be" than that would be easily defensible, but what he is saying its a better device that the Treo is right now, and that is just not true. It may be a better device for him, but he has steadfastly refused to say what his requirements are. One wonders why he was using a smartphone in the first place if 3rd party apps were not important to him. He and others seems intent to hype everyone of Job's words (e.g. the push imap story, the wonderful adaptive keyboard story and lack of need for one handed use, tactile feedback, no UMTS in the model he would lock himself in a two year contract in etc). If Palm tried to pull the same thing people would be much more skeptical.

Now everyone is impressed by the flash and glamour of the UI of the IPhone, but unless you just want to meld your razor and Ipod it falls far short of the industry smartphone standard at the moment, especially at the price.

Its style over function in the end, which is typical Apple.

Surur
 

oalvarez

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3rd party support: a thing of the ages

flash and glamour: yes, product design means a ton. has anyone ever wondered why they buy/don't buy certain clothes, cars and the like?

the treos out of the box (with the exception of the raised keyboard) will do not much more than the i-phone. why? because given the osx platform available to them and the like, they'd be crazy not to include the more popular pda feature set. they will have what it takes to develop a solid and well thought out device.

apple is thinking in the right way. palm is not.
 

mobileman

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Apr 28, 2004
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3rd party support: a thing of the ages

flash and glamour: yes, product design means a ton. has anyone ever wondered why they buy/don't buy certain clothes, cars and the like?

the treos out of the box (with the exception of the raised keyboard) will do not much more than the i-phone. why? because given the osx platform available to them and the like, they'd be crazy not to include the more popular pda feature set. they will have what it takes to develop a solid and well thought out device.

apple is thinking in the right way. palm is not.

Well then, there better be 1rst party support for the following, or no iPhone (cisco trademark) for me.
1. Exchange/Outlook sync
2. IM program (I have a bad feeling Cingular wont allow this)
3. MS office attachement support
 

bclancy

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3rd party support: a thing of the ages
...
the treos out of the box (with the exception of the raised keyboard) will do not much more than the i-phone. ...

That's the point of having 3rd party software. The "good" of this is that Palm does not have to do all the work themselves and take longer to get a device out. The "bad" of this is that we *have* to buy 3rd party apps to get the functionality we want.

... why? because given the osx platform available to them and the like, they'd be crazy not to include the more popular pda feature set. they will have what it takes to develop a solid and well thought out device.

Apple couldn't publish their API without giving away a lot of the functionality of the upcoming device. Without having pre-existing "3rd-party" apps, Apple has to create what people will need themselves. The advantage to this is they can create a consistent user experience and a common "mental model" or similarity between all apps. The big disadvantage is this is a closed-proprietary model until/if Apple opens up (or 3rd party developers reverse-engineer) the APIs. There is no "darwinism" and we'd have to rely on Apple to do the right thing. Also without the ability to program the device, the device can only be considered a "feature phone" and not a smartphone.

apple is thinking in the right way. palm is not.

That's a very subjective statement. I'd say that Apple is thinking in the way that is right for them, at the moment.

My Predictions: I fully expect that Apple will change this model as their mobile OS X platform matures. Once the cat (API) is out of the bag (as in Palm's case), they can't ignore the fact that others will write software and they will have to adapt their strategy (as Palm has done) to account for this. I expect that in about 2 years time, there will be 3 smartphone platforms: OSX-mobile, windows-moble, and Linux. Apple will be thinking in exactly the same way as the others, and all three will have chipped away at blackberry. I'm not sure what will happen to Symbian, but I think youl'll see most of those users migrate to OSX-mobile.

You heard it here first!
--
Bob
 

tirk

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5. 5 hours of battery life for talk/video/bwrowsing; 16 hours for audio playback. Note that this is with wi-fi and bluetooth going at the same time. This is unbelievable performance.

Quite right - I don't believe it either.
 

AdamK

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To this end, they also enlarge the keys as our finger approaches the screen (not yet touching) so that our brain can have some verification.

Wait, how is this possible? You seem to imply that there's a camera or other sensor that senses when your finger is above a key and enlarges it. I find that hard to believe.

Adam
 

mobileman

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Wait, how is this possible? You seem to imply that there's a camera or other sensor that senses when your finger is above a key and enlarges it. I find that hard to believe.

Adam

In the keynote Jobs said that there is a sensor in it, taht will recognize when you put it up to your face to make phone calls, it turns the screen of to save power.
 

KRamsauer

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In the keynote Jobs said that there is a sensor in it, taht will recognize when you put it up to your face to make phone calls, it turns the screen of to save power.

That's not a big deal at all. My camera has that feature. However, the fidelity of the feature described above (sensing where the finger is in relation to the screen when it hasn't even touched it yet) is amazing. I would be surprised if it actually did it by sensing the figure (as opposed to predictive text input).
 

archie

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Wait, how is this possible? You seem to imply that there's a camera or other sensor that senses when your finger is above a key and enlarges it. I find that hard to believe.

Adam
According to Apple's patent documentation, it is documented as using one or more OR all of the techniques below. It is kind of vague and from what I had read I do not know how to determine how many of the techniques where actually used (although you can probably rule out the ultrasonic proximity detection). My best guess, as to how they accomplished what I mention in this thread, is that they used a capacitive proximity detection system.

Capacitive proximity systems use capacitive sensing nodes to detect changes in capacitance above the I/O surface. Objects such as a finger affect the capacitance in a non trivial manner and therefore the changes can be used to determine whether the finger is present above the I/O surface.

Infrared proximity systems send out pulses of infrared light, and detect reflections of that light from nearby objects. The light may for example be reflected off of a finger located in front of the pulsed light. If the system detects reflected light, then an object is assumed to be present. If the system does not detect reflected light, then it is assumed that there is no object present. The light may be focused to a particular distance above the I/O surface.

Optical Shadow proximity systems use photodetectors or similar device to detect changes in light intensity. If the intensity is reduced, it can be assumed that this was caused by the presence of an object forming a shadow over the photodetector.

Ultrasonic proximity systems provide ultrasonic pulses of sound, and measures the length of time it takes for those pulses to hit nearby objects and return as echoes. The greater the time, the further the object.
 

cjdaniel

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CGLaguna's 15 Dislikes of the Iphone 1 like

Yeah the (Keynote) presentation was impressive, but as those of us who hit the Treo Roadshows know it's the "show" that you need to be concerned about. I was blown away ONE day later here are my thoughts.

I phone looks like a very cool device EXCEPT:

1. Why did we not see the camera in action?

2. Can you use MMS? I can now or I can email a picture but for communicating with other Mobile phone users sometimes it is the only option.

3. What no Video Camera or function?

4. Battery Internal, we haven't experienced that since Treo 600 and thank god that was quickly solved, nothing like being wired to a car charger or AC/adapter when your phone gets low.

5. No SD (Micro or Mini) expansion?

6. No OTA Syncing well I guess that puts us back a few years.

7. No demo of calendar function? Is it that clunky? Worse that WM Calendar?

8. No Edge Demo, thats scary too. When I got my 650 and Cingular got Edge it was rip roaring, it since as slowed considerably at least in my area. What would have the NY times page taken to laod with an edge connection rather than the WiFi they used?

9. No mention of DUN??? Proabably not possible.

10. No ICHAT?? I thought I chat was supposed to be the most awesome form of AIM.

11. Apple device with no direct downloading from itunes??

12. If this new and improved keyboard was so great (for those who watched Keynote) why didn't they have someone who could type demo ing it? Steve typing with one finger was a demostration of crap.

13. "Incredible Internet" We only saw steve hitting favorties keys, what would it be like typing an internet address. As you saw nothing he typed had symbols in it, how clunky is that?

14. That scrolling looks cool, but imagine I am on the 405 and scrolling through 500 contacts, what a nightmare, no favorite keys???

15. Voice dialing, my god that is so 10 years ago, it doesn't even have that?


Likes

1. Looks very cool and made by Apple