1. Chatter's Avatar
    Here are some things I don't understand about all this rapturous iPhone talk (and let me say, I think the thing is gorgeous and might buy one just to look at it):

    1) Why does everyone act as though Apple is a David slaying the Goliath Palm? Apple has FIFTY TIMES the market cap of Palm, hugely more resources, etc.

    2) Why does everyone take Apple's PR and showmanship at face value? It may indeed be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but until there's a LOT more information, it's almost literally insane to think that it will live up to ALL of the hype.

    3) What makes everyone thing that slow releases, etc. are the fault of the phone manufacturer (i.e. Palm)? How many people realize the HELL involved in working with carriers, their 3 month certification cycles, etc.? What makes anyone think Apple will have an easier time of it than anyone else?

    4) Expensive phone, most expensive unlimited data plan, not G3, VERY uncertain battery life (I suspect anywhere from poor to terrible), maybe no third party apps, no removable battery, difficult one-handed use, no experience with real users, Yahoo?, etc, etc.

    I know the Kool-Aid looks and smells great, but I wouldn't be drinking any until a lot more is known.

    Marc
    01-10-2007 12:54 AM
  2. NextDream's Avatar
    Ahh, a Palm apologist. More is known, there was a 2 hour long synopsis of what the phone does and how it works on the Apple website. Have you seen it??


    1)Goliath in this equation is Apple, and guess who spent more in Research & Development?

    2)All the "hype" can be seen live and in the flesh by going to www.apple.com/iphone and watching the keynote address from Steve Jobs.

    3)So basically people who dropped $450 for 700P in June of 06 are unreasonable in expecting a ROM update? Sell crazy elsewhere ...which leads into

    4)Yes it's an expensive phone but the difference between the iphone and the Treo is worth the $100. Chances are if you have $399 to blow on a Treo you can come up with an additional $100 for a device that is far superior.

    www.apple.com/iphone

    We all liked the Treo until something better came along. It's like comparing regular tv to 1080p.
    01-10-2007 01:24 AM
  3. areyouwishing's Avatar
    I have to agree with some of these comments. The iPhone is a lot to get excited about, but more info needs to come forth before any real decisions can be made. It does have all the elements to be a treo killer. Stable OS, push email built in, seamless sync with PIM, good mac support, a company thats not afraid of firmware releases{{edit: forgot some things}}, WiFi, Bluetooth 2.0, Seamless skip-free Music, 2.0 megapixel camera, slim form-factor, built in h.264/quicktime/mp4/AAC support, no antenna bud, free push yahoo mail account, out of order voicemail.**

    I do not like that there has not been ONE official word from apple about a removable battery, yet everyone is assuming it's like an iPod. That would be like assuming the apple remote doesn't have a removable battery. See below for pic of the back bottom of the phone, you think that is there for design looks?

    Also, if you can't install 3rd party apps, that raises a lot of questions on whether I will get one or not. I also need a VPN to get to my exchange/IMAP email, so that also better be there. Im hoping apple doesn't get too consumer on us and release something that doesn't support server side software, caldav, and LDAP to be more specific. Syncing is so 1997.



    **Oh gosh, palm is doomed....even if they pull a palm and only half the features work as advertised.
    01-10-2007 01:55 AM
  4. mrjoec's Avatar
    Here are some things I don't understand about all this rapturous iPhone talk (and let me say, I think the thing is gorgeous and might buy one just to look at it):

    1) Why does everyone act as though Apple is a David slaying the Goliath Palm? Apple has FIFTY TIMES the market cap of Palm, hugely more resources, etc.

    2) Why does everyone take Apple's PR and showmanship at face value? It may indeed be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but until there's a LOT more information, it's almost literally insane to think that it will live up to ALL of the hype.

    3) What makes everyone thing that slow releases, etc. are the fault of the phone manufacturer (i.e. Palm)? How many people realize the HELL involved in working with carriers, their 3 month certification cycles, etc.? What makes anyone think Apple will have an easier time of it than anyone else?

    4) Expensive phone, most expensive unlimited data plan, not G3, VERY uncertain battery life (I suspect anywhere from poor to terrible), maybe no third party apps, no removable battery, difficult one-handed use, no experience with real users, Yahoo?, etc, etc.

    I know the Kool-Aid looks and smells great, but I wouldn't be drinking any until a lot more is known.

    Marc
    1) I don't think it's David slaying Goliath, but Palm is getting slain, all the same. Honestly, there's just about no hope for Palm to survive in the long term without a serious acceleration of their next OS release (ALP, or whatever) and maybe Hawkins' "secret" device by the end of this year, if it's as cool as I expect it will be. And I say this as a very long-time Palm user. I never would have considered switching to Windows Mobile, but I won't think twice about a mobile device running OS X.

    2) I agree that there are a lot of unanswered questions regarding iPhone. But regardless of whether iPhone sells well or not, the gold standard for mobile user interfaces just got rewritten today. Nokia, RIM, Motorola, etc. are all going to have to rethink their ease of use as a result of this announcement. This is another reason why I think Palm will have trouble surviving in the long run. It takes them way too long to catch up to innovations like this. Unless Microsoft manages to overhaul Windows Mobile, and then at least the "W" Treos will stand a chance.

    3) Apple solved this problem by partnering with one exclusive carrier, and then announcing the phone six months early, which will give Cingular plenty of testing time. They're also, as you mentioned, a much bigger company with a lot more pull in the tech world than Palm could ever dream of. Apple will still run into problems with Cingular, I'm sure, but Cingular will be much faster to resolve those issues when that phone call from Steve comes in.


    4) The phone is expensive, but when you factor in not having to buy an iPod (at least, if you were a nano owner) it's not really that bad. Unlimited data is a bit more expensive via Cingular, but I'm with Cingular already, and have been for years, so this is not an issue for me. Having to sign on for two years of contract REALLY sucks, but then again, iPhone will only work on Cingular's network for many years, from the looks of it, so where else would I go with it?

    No G3 is a bummer, but WiFi will be available to me at least 70% of the time. (Once the city of San Francisco gets completely wired for WiFi, even more.) And a future gen of iPhone will be 3G, according to Steve during the keynote. Besides, my 680 doesn't have 3G, either.

    No 3rd-party apps I find nearly impossible to believe. Apple can be stupid about this sort of thing, but it won't take long for them to see the that third-party developers are the key to iPhone's long-term success. It's OS X in there, after all. Why not let people write programs for it?

    Battery life was pretty well stated, except for standby time. Steve said clearly that iPhone would get 5 hrs. of talk/wireless email and browsing/video, and 16 hours of just iPod music playing. Apple already got in trouble for exaggerating battery life on iPod way back when, and ever since they've been understating their battery life a bit. So it's really just a matter of standby time to determine if this will be an issue at all. I suspect it will get 20-24 hours of standby, at least, which is better than I get with my 680, in any case.

    I'm not sure one-handed use will be an issue. At least, no more an issue than trying to hit the menu key on a 680 when you're holding it in your right hand, or trying to hit the option key when you're holding it with your left. The on-screen buttons look big enough to hit with the ball of your thumb. The rest of the interface looks fairly easy to operate with one or two hands.

    I'm sure this thing is not for everyone, but it's pretty much exactly what I need, and what Palm was almost—but never quite—able to give me. I like the Treo a lot more than any other phone I saw before today, and iPhone trumps Treo in just about every way for me. So, yeah, I'll drink that Kool-Aid.
    01-10-2007 01:56 AM
  5. archie's Avatar
    Here are some things I don't understand about all this rapturous iPhone talk (and let me say, I think the thing is gorgeous and might buy one just to look at it):

    1) Why does everyone act as though Apple is a David slaying the Goliath Palm? Apple has FIFTY TIMES the market cap of Palm, hugely more resources, etc.
    I did not know that everyone was acting as though Apple is a David slaying the Goliath Palm.

    I personally thank God that Apple has decided to make a phone that caters to a Mac user... a Mac user of 19 years, because no one else does. Palm started out doing this but then turned their back on Macs about the time the Treo 600 came out (well you know, at about the time they bought Handspring). I lobbied, rationalized and begged Palm for a good 2 or more years to recognize Mac users to a greater degree. It seemed with every effort and every bit of hope that I had, they were determined to work towards doing the opposite that much more. They refused to acknowledge the 25% (or more) share of Mac users tha they had. Those users are now gone. And now they have a place to turn to. I say, let Palm eat it. I DON'T feel sorry for them at all. They made their bed and have had every opportunity laid out for them.

    2) Why does everyone take Apple's PR and showmanship at face value? It may indeed be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but until there's a LOT more information, it's almost literally insane to think that it will live up to ALL of the hype.
    Yes it is Steve's carefully crafted and articulated words that create the product's (and the company's) image but this "showmanship" is affective because he knows how to talk to consumers, and reporters. His words are not cold and stale, full of boring buzz; they are easy to relate too and easy to understand. That is why I personally take it at face value. Have you every listened to an average run-of-the-mill tech CEO... BORRRING.

    The iPhone not being able to live up to the hype...? perhaps to the uninformed but I personally have followed this phone for the last two years, tracking Apple's business moves, observing patent applications, noting industry trends, and watching Apple put the pieces together. You will find evidence of this in hundreds of previous posts right here on TreoCentral. The name is Archie if you want to search for the stuff. I am aware of a lot what has gone into the making of this phone and know that it is not all hype. For instance, people think the keyboard experience will be awful. Granted, I have not used it, but I know what they are doing to make this unique keyboard a success. Every little space on that screen is tracking and measuring and relating to every other little space. There is a great deal of processing power required JUST for the simple act of typing and reading how your finger hits the screen and what part of your finger hits first and the total amount of space that it hits all in an effort to account for inaccuracies. There is a lot of research that has been done here. They even take into account a person's inability to accurately predict what part of their finger actually hits the screen. You see, it seems that we fail to take into account the curve of our finger and how it actually hits the screen based on the overhead view we have in watching the screen as we type.

    3) What makes everyone thing that slow releases, etc. are the fault of the phone manufacturer (i.e. Palm)? How many people realize the HELL involved in working with carriers, their 3 month certification cycles, etc.? What makes anyone think Apple will have an easier time of it than anyone else?
    Apple gets to do it their way. They have a special agreement with Cingular and it is Cingular that will be realizing the HELL involved in working with Steve. The only reason we have to wait is because Apple wanted to announce the phone rather than letting news slip uncontrollably through the FCC, which requires a good 3 months for approval. The phone will be out by June 1 so about 4 months down the road, we'll, I'll, have it in my hands.

    4) Expensive phone,
    $499 is less expensive than the Treo 650 when it came out. So is $599.
    most expensive unlimited data plan,
    Huh??? Where did you here this?
    not G3,
    That is because Cingular doesn't HAVE G3. They said at the keynote they when it is available, they will build a phone that will utilize it.
    VERY uncertain battery life (I suspect anywhere from poor to terrible),
    5 hours for phone, email and web use and 16 hours in using music playback. This beats the Treo 680.
    maybe no third party apps,
    Just because no development kits have been announced TODAY does not mean people cannot develop for it.
    no removable battery,
    Thank GOD! I hated that Palm did that. You will find me complaining about that too here on TreoCentral if you search. It is not good design/engineering; it is waisting precious realestate. What woul dyou rather have a phone that lasts for 4 hours or 5 hours because that is what this choice does for the user.
    difficult one-handed use,
    What makes you say this? This is not a hypothetical question. I really want to know your reasoning here.
    no experience with real users,
    Are you doubting Apple's ability to just walk right in to the phone market? Do you think a PC company is not just going to figure it out?


    Yahoo?,
    Yeah, Yahoo... AND Google. Apple has miraculously managed to partner with two competitors, Yahoo! & Google, and brought them under one roof to escalate the competition to bring ever improving services to the iPhone. GENIOUS the way they play the market. Yahoo! talked about its free exclusive PUSH IMAP service it is providing iPhone users and went on to detail some other stuff. Same with Google. I don't know HOW Apple (Steve probabally) did that.
    01-10-2007 02:12 AM
  6. Chatter's Avatar
    Free push IMAP email has been around for years. Yawn. And Yahoo? Ugh.

    Battery life will be significantly worse than the 650 (maybe not than the 680); I'd bet on it. Apple hasn't violated laws of physics, I'm pretty sure of that. When the battery runs out in 6-8 hours, you'd better be near the charger!

    Everything else - who knows? And what makes everyone think that Palm, Microsoft, Motorola, etc. are just sitting still? I can understand Mac users getting very excited about this, but otherwise, I think it's best to wait and see.

    Marc

    p.s. If you want some fair reporting on this, check out the WSJ article and other unbiased reports.
    01-10-2007 02:37 AM
  7. Tissa's Avatar
    "No 3rd-party apps I find nearly impossible to believe............... Why not let people write programs for it?"




    What about the widgets? Aren't they 3rd party apps?
    01-10-2007 03:04 AM
  8. driven01#IM's Avatar

    3) What makes everyone thing that slow releases, etc. are the fault of the phone manufacturer (i.e. Palm)? How many people realize the HELL involved in working with carriers, their 3 month certification cycles, etc.? What makes anyone think Apple will have an easier time of it than anyone else?

    Well ... I'll just take this one on:

    They have already announced the product with Cingular. When was the last time you saw Cingular announce a Palm product 6 months before it was going to be available?

    THAT's the way to build hype and gain early feedback from people.

    As for the hype part ... Apple very rarely ever fails to live up to it's hype.
    01-10-2007 03:17 AM
  9. archie's Avatar
    Free push IMAP email has been around for years. Yawn. And Yahoo? Ugh.
    You are thinking of the IMAP IDLE command. I'm talking Push-IMAP. Push-IMAP reduces the time and effort needed to synchronize messages. It uses as little bandwidth as possible by using compression and command macros. And its FREE!

    Everything else - who knows? And what makes everyone think that Palm, Microsoft, Motorola, etc. are just sitting still? I can understand Mac users getting very excited about this, but otherwise, I think it's best to wait and see.

    Marc

    p.s. If you want some fair reporting on this, check out the WSJ article and other unbiased reports.
    That is rather presumptuous to insinuate that I am not giving an accurate report. I beg to differ and appeal to you to state any inaccuracies, aside from your own.
    01-10-2007 03:20 AM
  10. ion++'s Avatar
    $499 is less expensive than the Treo 650 when it came out. So is $599.
    Huh??? Where did you here this?
    Did the 650 really cost more than $499 with a 2 year contract? The iphone and it's $499 and $599 is with a 2 year contract. Others has been comparing that to the $399 for the unlocked treo 680, but it should be compared to the "free offer" through TreoCentral Store. So $499 and $599 is not really that cheap.


    Are you doubting Apple's ability to just walk right in to the phone market? Do you think a PC company is not just going to figure it out?
    Apple did not just walk in, they spent 2,5 years making the phone.
    01-10-2007 04:48 AM
  11. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    While I also think the future of the iPhone is uncertain due to price and carrier(both too much money), Palm is behind in technology, plain and simple. Maybe that's why people are hyped up over the iPhone over Palm.

    The 680 is a cuter version of the 650. Nothing much to see there but a design and slight feature change. The 750 not having built-in wifi is just plain dumb! And it's quite expensive too.

    The iPhone is probably not meant to be a real smartphone anyway. More like a multi-media phone. So no 3rd party apps is not necessarily that unusual since it has a lot of apps already built-in. Now no removable battery could be a big problem.
    01-10-2007 05:46 AM
  12. archie's Avatar
    Now no removable battery could be a big problem.
    You can take solace in the fact that the phone isn't even released yet and there are already many battery solutions available for it.

    Like:




    01-11-2007 05:22 PM
  13. Malatesta's Avatar
    You can take solace in the fact that the phone isn't even released yet and there are already many battery solutions available for it.
    Actually, the big problem with non-removable LiON batteries is not their battery life per day of usage (though that is an issue for some, it is amendable via devices like above) but rather the fact the LiON deterioate quite a lot after 1 year of use and more so after 2 and will need to be replaced at some point (assuming you don't trade it out after 12-14 months).

    And considering most people leave their phones (ergo iPhone) on all the time this will be much more significant than say the replacement of iPod batteries since those are only "on" for a couple of hours a day. Couple this with the fact this is an "everything" device (iPod, phone, email, internet, etc.) people will be draining/recharging the battery a heck of alot, more than a normal cell phone (heating during charging is what can hurt the lifespan of Lion batteries).

    Having your battery serviced is not something many of us are excited about and buying a kit to do it yourself runs into the very issues that Apple is trying to scurry around: making the device "simple".
    01-11-2007 05:30 PM
  14. Malatesta's Avatar
    See below for pic of the back bottom of the phone, you think that is there for design looks?
    actually, I believe it was engadget where they reported on that exact black area: it's for the antenna for the cell radio.

    nice try though on the guesswork/apple belief system. lol

    The cell radio/antenna cannot be surrounded by the metal due to poor reception so rather "...an enclosure having structural walls formed from a ceramic material that is radio-transparent."

    Patent is here:
    http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=345
    01-11-2007 05:40 PM
  15. KMeloney's Avatar
    1) ...Apple has FIFTY TIMES the market cap of Palm, hugely more resources, etc.
    Right. Call the players what you will, but you've partly answered your own question here. Palm has a good chance of being "slain" by the market cap (and novel products, and support, etc.) power of Apple.

    2) Why does everyone take Apple's PR and showmanship at face value? It may indeed be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but until there's a LOT more information, it's almost literally insane to think that it will live up to ALL of the hype.
    ...And equally insane to think that it WON'T live up to the "hype" then, right? You obviously don't use Macs. And you obviously haven't paid attention to how Apple's iPod/iTunes success. Otherwise, you'd see how well Apple supports its "hype."

    4) ...VERY uncertain battery life (I suspect anywhere from poor to terrible), maybe no third party apps, ...difficult one-handed use, no experience with real users...
    "VERY uncertain battery life?" Why don't you rephrase that to say that YOU are uncertain of the battery life? Who knows if the life of the battery is "uncertain?" We simply don't know what the battery life is at the moment. So, why phrase it like that? Why do YOU suspect it's from "poor to terrible?" What do you know about it? Has someone given you the straight scoop on it? Clearly not, or you wouldn't be "suspecting" these things -- you'd know. And we'd all know. You just don't want to like this thing.

    "Maybe no third party apps?" If you had ever been around a Mac with the latest OS, you'd see just how many widgets there are -- and how many third parties there are writing them. This phone appears to use widgets. Do you know something we don't know?

    Are you concerned that you might not have the dexterity to use this thing?! Do you use your Treo with one hand (or with two hands, one hand holding a stylus)? This doesn't look bigger than a Treo. How hard can it be? And if it DOES require two hands, YOU SHOULD BE GOOD AT IT by now.

    Wait a minute... So, this phone was released without being TESTED? Or, by suggesting that "real users" haven't tried the iPhone yet, do you mean that actually "people" haven't tried it out yet? Oh, wait -- it hasn't been released yet. Maybe Apple will be able to hurry up and test it before it comes out in June... (What exactly are you saying here?!)

    I know the Kool-Aid looks and smells great, but I wouldn't be drinking any until a lot more is known.
    ...And yet, regardless of needing to wait until "a lot more is known," you're more than willing to voice so much skepticism about the phone in the meantime. Here's a question for you: Why?

    /< / /2 /<
    01-11-2007 08:20 PM
  16. Malatesta's Avatar
    "VERY uncertain battery life?" Why don't you rephrase that to say that YOU are uncertain of the battery life? Who knows if the life of the battery is "uncertain?" We simply don't know what the battery life is at the moment. So, why phrase it like that? Why do YOU suspect it's from "poor to terrible?" What do you know about it? Has someone given you the straight scoop on it? Clearly not, or you wouldn't be "suspecting" these things -- you'd know. And we'd all know. You just don't want to like this thing.
    I think it's obvious:

    - they are using 2 processors (one main, one for graphics. this is known already)

    - it has a very large, bright touch screen (number #1 drain on any device)

    - it has wifi

    - it has a large amount of memory

    - they haven't patented a new type of battery

    - it has quite a lot of sensors

    - there are tons of electronic devices from iPods, to PSPs to other PDAs to give us a clue to as what what is possible

    This isn't to say that Mac has not optimized the system to get the best battery life, indeed all of those sensors (which I'm sure use battery life) aid in that. But looking at what this can do, it is not unsuprising to think it's going to use a lot of battery life. Hence the skepticism.

    ...And yet, regardless of needing to wait until "a lot more is known," you're more than willing to voice so much skepticism about the phone in the meantime. Here's a question for you: Why?
    /< / /2 /<
    Skepticism is the hallmark of a rational mind. Assuming a hour long press conference by a company selling you something is completely accurate without caveats is dogmatic and frankly, silly.

    Some of us just want proof, not their word. This is not slamming the product, just being rational.
    01-11-2007 08:39 PM
  17. MacUser's Avatar
    2) Why does everyone take Apple's PR and showmanship at face value? It may indeed be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but until there's a LOT more information, it's almost literally insane to think that it will live up to ALL of the hype.
    All Mac people know that Jobs is fanatical about R&D and has been working on the iPhone for 2 and a 1/2 years. He does NOT like to disappoint.

    I know the Kool-Aid looks and smells great, but I wouldn't be drinking any until a lot more is known.

    Marc
    The Kool-Aid looks great, smells great, and I can't wait to have a taste because it's going to be...great.
    01-11-2007 09:56 PM
  18. KMeloney's Avatar
    I think it's obvious:

    - they are using 2 processors (one main, one for graphics. this is known already)

    - it has a very large, bright touch screen (number #1 drain on any device)

    - it has wifi

    - it has a large amount of memory

    - they haven't patented a new type of battery

    - it has quite a lot of sensors

    - there are tons of electronic devices from iPods, to PSPs to other PDAs to give us a clue to as what what is possible

    This isn't to say that Mac has not optimized the system to get the best battery life, indeed all of those sensors (which I'm sure use battery life) aid in that. But looking at what this can do, it is not unsuprising to think it's going to use a lot of battery life. Hence the skepticism.
    Thanks! Makes a lot of sense. (I just thought the original poster was being pessimistic, not simply skeptical.) Now, along the battery life line, isn't 16 hours of audio playback pretty darn long? (Or, is that NOT long -- by PHONE standards?) I figured that that was a good indicator of some serious standby time. Or can you not go by that?

    Skepticism is the hallmark of a rational mind. Assuming a hour long press conference by a company selling you something is completely accurate without caveats is dogmatic and frankly, silly.

    Some of us just want proof, not their word. This is not slamming the product, just being rational.
    Sure, I hear you. I'm just going on Apple's track record as of late here. If we were talking about the same kind of press conference, but with a co. that I didn't already feel really good about, I'd be more skeptical, that's for sure.

    I can't imagine that we all don't want proof. But, unfortunately, we all have to wait for the proof. In the meantime, some folks will remain excited about the what this phone might offer, and others are more inclined to look at the glass as half empty (and leaking). I don't see much good in the latter.

    Thanks for the info!

    /< / /2 /<
    01-11-2007 10:37 PM
  19. f1realtor's Avatar
    I doubt price will be a factor. for hs kids, perhaps, but not for a lot of people. People are blowing money on things like a ps3 and a phone like this would seem to be more important to most people imho.
    01-11-2007 10:42 PM
  20. bclinger#IM's Avatar
    Well, someone mentioned third party software - here is the link to Stevie himself about third party software:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/11/te...ge&oref=slogin

    Part of it below:

    Mr. Jobs is moving in that direction, too, but it appears that he wants to control his device much more closely than his competitors.

    “We define everything that is on the phone,” he said. “You don’t want your phone to be like a PC. The last thing you want is to have loaded three apps on your phone and then you go to make a call and it doesn’t work anymore. These are more like iPods than they are like computers.”

    The iPhone, he insisted, would not look like the rest of the wireless industry.

    “These are devices that need to work, and you can’t do that if you load any software on them,” he said. “That doesn’t mean there’s not going to be software to buy that you can load on them coming from us. It doesn’t mean we have to write it all, but it means it has to be more of a controlled environment.”

    Software developers at Macworld Expo, the trade show where Mr. Jobs made the iPhone announcement, said they were taking a wait-and-see attitude about the phone. Several noted that much of the phone’s usability will depend on what added functions Apple decides to place in the version of the Safari Web browser that is part of the system.



    Price is not a factor for me; if I want it, I buy it. However, I do take the time to look before buying.

    Ben
    01-12-2007 12:30 AM
  21. bclinger#IM's Avatar
    Steve Jobs has a well published history of mistakes; big mistakes.

    Read the link in the above post about a couple of failures and problems he has had.

    Ben

    All Mac people know that Jobs is fanatical about R&D and has been working on the iPhone for 2 and a 1/2 years. He does NOT like to disappoint.


    The Kool-Aid looks great, smells great, and I can't wait to have a taste because it's going to be...great.
    01-12-2007 12:32 AM
  22. driven01#IM's Avatar
    Well, someone mentioned third party software - here is the link to Stevie himself about third party software:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/11/te...ge&oref=slogin

    Part of it below:

    Mr. Jobs is moving in that direction, too, but it appears that he wants to control his device much more closely than his competitors.

    We define everything that is on the phone, he said. You dont want your phone to be like a PC. The last thing you want is to have loaded three apps on your phone and then you go to make a call and it doesnt work anymore. These are more like iPods than they are like computers.

    The iPhone, he insisted, would not look like the rest of the wireless industry.

    These are devices that need to work, and you cant do that if you load any software on them, he said. That doesnt mean theres not going to be software to buy that you can load on them coming from us. It doesnt mean we have to write it all, but it means it has to be more of a controlled environment.

    Software developers at Macworld Expo, the trade show where Mr. Jobs made the iPhone announcement, said they were taking a wait-and-see attitude about the phone. Several noted that much of the phones usability will depend on what added functions Apple decides to place in the version of the Safari Web browser that is part of the system.



    Price is not a factor for me; if I want it, I buy it. However, I do take the time to look before buying.

    Ben
    This doesn't mean there won't be third party applications, but rather a more controlled development environment. My guess is that he is referring to something like the "signed executables" concept that currently exists on WM5. My firm signs all of our apps before they ship which allows our apps to run natively with the same (or similar) security rights of WM5 itself.

    The difference here is the OSX on the phone isn't going to allow "unsigned" apps to run at all, unlike WM5. So .. they are going to eliminate the hobbiest coder. from a stability standpoint this isn't a bad thing.
    01-12-2007 12:39 AM
  23. sinebubble's Avatar
    Here's something *I* don't understand.

    1. On a 680, in Phone App -> Options -> Phone Display Options, why doesn't the "Fade" slider fade the silk screen controls? Instead, it fades the picture, which is totally useless. Here is an example of Palm going to the trouble of implementing some eye candy and totally getting it wrong. Look at the iPhone translucent silk screen gui/controls over the wallpaper.

    http://www.apple.com/iphone/technology/specs.html

    Why didn't Palm do it this way? It seems so obvious.
    01-12-2007 12:44 AM
  24. oalvarez's Avatar

    p.s. If you want some fair reporting on this, check out the WSJ article and other unbiased reports.

    wsj unbiased? who made them the authority? for heaven's sake, their workloads are probably half of yours and mine.

    so tired of the mossberg/mossburg thing....people read him because he is in print, not because of his technical genius.
    01-12-2007 01:26 AM
  25. bigwalton's Avatar
    Well, someone mentioned third party software - here is the link to Stevie himself about third party software:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/11/te...ge&oref=slogin

    Part of it below:

    Mr. Jobs is moving in that direction, too, but it appears that he wants to control his device much more closely than his competitors.

    “We define everything that is on the phone,” he said. “You don’t want your phone to be like a PC. The last thing you want is to have loaded three apps on your phone and then you go to make a call and it doesn’t work anymore. These are more like iPods than they are like computers.”

    The iPhone, he insisted, would not look like the rest of the wireless industry.

    “These are devices that need to work, and you can’t do that if you load any software on them,” he said. “That doesn’t mean there’s not going to be software to buy that you can load on them coming from us. It doesn’t mean we have to write it all, but it means it has to be more of a controlled environment.”
    Why hello there!!! Why isn't this being pointed out more?!

    Everyone's just saying that there's no 3rd party/additional apps allowed.... saying that the apps they showed on it at the keynote wouldn't be enough...

    At a bare minimum, it allows for the possibility that everyone seems to think can't happen, but at best, you can walk into an Apple store/Cingular and buy an Office suite, PDF reader, games, etc. etc. etc.

    Yeah, you may pay more than shareware on a Treo, but if it means that Apple's slapped their stamp of approval on it, it will be supported, and it will just work, I'll happily pay extra.

    Thanks for the link (and the hope )!
    01-15-2007 03:32 PM
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