1. cjdaniel's Avatar
    Well, I can appreciate that, fellow Mac user. I see you're thinking of going to a 750. How well will that work with your Mac? Will you be going Missing Sync? Have you tried the WM and like it? I've tried my friend's and I guess you can't really get a feel for one in an hour, but I just didn't like it. Personally, I love the idea of a seemless sync of all my data. The one thing I'm trying to figure out is how I'm going to get along without SplashID. I simply love it.
    Honestly I am a new Mac user. I have been looking at the OS for awhile from afar, I thought I would try it. My first computer was an Apple IIc, and went PC after that... I was a computer major and the Macs from the 90's in my opinion were horrid by design, the company I went to work for was all Mac. I convinced them to go all Dell and it has been that way for 10 years, without regret...

    In the last few years I have relooked at Macs and they are pretty appealing. i do part time video editing (Avid) right now and am semi pro photographer.. So I have been interested in at least trying one.

    I was going to jump in with a full featured Macbook Pro 2.33mhz 2GB but chickened out at the last minute cuz of the $2300 price tag.

    Found online a new Macbook 2.0 Duo/superdrive for $699. Decided to play with that for a while before I plunge a bunch of money down.

    With 3 Pc's at home including home theatre pc, and 2 pc laptops, I have not considered trying to sync the Treo with the Mac. I am hoping for OTA sync for any phone in my future.
    01-13-2007 12:36 PM
  2. oalvarez's Avatar
    But it's not an alternative to the Treo, that's the point some of us are trying to stress here and that you are ducking.

    Maybe an alternative "multimedia phone" in the generic sense but unless you are using the Treo in it's barest form, it is far from an alternative:

    - no Outlook synching
    - no Word, PowerPoint, Excel viewing, let alone editing
    - no GPS
    - no IM (yet)
    - no 3g
    - no Slingbox
    - no VOIP (Skype or Google Talk)
    - no choice in networks (locked/exclusive)
    - no 3rd party apps (in the traditional form/may change later, maybe not)
    - no replaceable battery
    - no internet radio

    Now, if you don't need any of the above that is totally fine but it begs the question: why are you using a Treo in the first place?

    I still ask the question: besides aesthetics (bigger screen, pretty UI, thinner, etc.), what can it do better than a smartphone?

    Once again, this is not to take away from anything the iPhone may or may not be but it is people like yourself who are intent on trying to push the argument that this is a "treo killer", not I.

    alternative, option, choice, extension, replacement, compliment....it's whatever i want it to be. i'm not ducking anything, and never said it was a treo killer. do i really need to explain my device needs to you? i've owned everything from treos to blackberries to ppc's/slideouts, because i can, because corporate america makes these choices available to us as consumers. like i've said in many other posts, half of the people in this place and those who you see walking around with treos don't really even need them but they own them nonetheless. i don't care what you use your phone for, not sure why you're so worried and concerned about my needs. and it's not what the iphone can do better than the treo but what the treo and palm do not have. it's all in the eye of the beholder, and i'll enjoy whatever it is that i see in it that you can't or don't.

    you're a gem
    01-13-2007 12:42 PM
  3. Malatesta's Avatar
    do i really need to explain my device needs to you?
    Of course you don't! And no one is trying to dissuade anyone from buying the iPhone. Just about everyone here agrees it's an awesome multimedia device but not necessarily a smartphone in the traditional sense.

    But when you say such things as

    the treos out of the box (with the exception of the raised keyboard) will do not much more than the i-phone. why? because given the osx platform available to them and the like, they'd be crazy not to include the more popular pda feature set. they will have what it takes to develop a solid and well thought out device.

    apple is thinking in the right way. palm is not.
    die hards (or is it blow-hards) will always remain. and remember, there aren't as many as you think. this whole power user thing is freakin' nonsense.
    i'm still waiting for all of the Treo power users and Treo die-hards to chime in...they've been awful quiet with the exception of "the keyboard issue" and "EDGE being so slow."

    where are all of the supporters?
    even as an owner of a brand spanking new 750c.....what does it have that i like? a raised keyboard. anything else? not really. a brick is a brick is a brick.
    ...Forgive me if I actually want to respond and address those comments and feel that you may be making out the iPhone more than it is. :hmm:
    01-13-2007 01:19 PM
  4. oalvarez's Avatar
    awesome job..thanks!
    01-13-2007 01:23 PM
  5. Treolo's Avatar
    Palm has till June to come out with a wide-screen Treo with a better OS and at least 4GB of space. In the case that they keep making the same Treo with minor cosmetic changes I will have to seriously consider the iPhone. However, I don't want to leave Sprint. Therefore, the day Sprint comes out with an iPhone with a 16GB hard drive I will be the first in line to get this baby. After so many years of been a loyal Palm geek I'm willing to go to Apple. At least I never went to the dark side (Win Mobile)

    Al
    01-13-2007 04:23 PM
  6. Mtreosexual's Avatar
    But it's not an alternative to the Treo, that's the point some of us are trying to stress here and that you are ducking.

    Maybe an alternative "multimedia phone" in the generic sense but unless you are using the Treo in it's barest form, it is far from an alternative:

    - no Outlook synching
    - no Word, PowerPoint, Excel viewing, let alone editing
    - no GPS
    - no IM (yet)
    - no 3g
    - no Slingbox
    - no VOIP (Skype or Google Talk)
    - no choice in networks (locked/exclusive)
    - no 3rd party apps (in the traditional form/may change later, maybe not)
    - no replaceable battery
    - no internet radio

    Now, if you don't need any of the above that is totally fine but it begs the question: why are you using a Treo in the first place?

    I still ask the question: besides aesthetics (bigger screen, pretty UI, thinner, etc.), what can it do better than a smartphone?

    Once again, this is not to take away from anything the iPhone may or may not be but it is people like yourself who are intent on trying to push the argument that this is a "treo killer", not I.

    Oh Gosh,
    The phone was just announced . Do you think DOCs to GO will sit and not make a version for this bad boy or other wise apple would not make an app to open word document or excel for that matter? Similarly Outlook syncing ?
    Slingbox will come as the phone comes,for sure by the end of the year .
    People will find a way to unlock this bad boy and than T mo users will come .
    3G is the only issue , however if wifi is that frequently available , i atleast do n't care about 3G .
    You may or may not need that much battery life . I bet the charger is going to be small and easy to carry .
    In other words give the phone sometime .
    01-14-2007 10:13 AM
  7. oalvarez's Avatar
    In other words give the phone sometime .
    you're wasting your time with him.
    01-14-2007 12:34 PM
  8. Bronxboy's Avatar
    To quote Iuliu Blaga of Playfuls.com

    "the disadvantages:

    - legal battle over name with Cisco's Linksys. Computerworld says: "An Apple executive told PC World that because the Cisco iPhone is a voice over IP (VoIP) phone and the Apple iPhone is a cell phone, Apple is not violating Cisco's trademark." But Cisco has another opinion on the matter. Todays iPhone is not tomorrows iPhone. The potential for convergence of the home phone, cell phone, work phone and PC is limitless, which is why it is so important for us to protect our brand, said Mark Chandler, senior vice president and general counsel, Cisco.

    - price: $499 for entry level (4GB) and $599 (6 GB) for premium version (you can buy the premium version of PS3 for $600)
    - locked on Cingular GSM networks (this also means no access to faster CDMA-2000 internet connectivity); also not compatible with GSM's latest 3G network. "Cingular executives I've spoken with say they anticipate people will change (mobile phone) carriers so they can buy an iPhone -- I doubt that," says Sascha Segan, chief mobile phone analyst for PC Computing Magazine. "People choose call carriers on (cell-phone) coverage, call quality and price -- not device."
    - quality issues (some analysts are questioning if iPhone will be able to resist to scratches and drops, as an usual phone is)
    - on-screen keyboard may be hard to use (hard to type on such a small surface with your thumbs)
    - its still unclear it will support third party applications, and Steve Jobs suggested it wont: We define everything that is on the phone, Jobs said. You dont want your phone to be like a PC. The last thing you want is to have loaded three apps on your phone and then you go to make a call and it doesnt work anymore. These are more like iPods than they are like computers.

    Jobs said Apple plans to sell 10 million units by end of 2008. Many can't see that happening in real life, although it's almost certain people will line up in June when the iPhone (or whatever its name is going to be then) will hit the shelves. Apple also promised it's going to work hard on improvements before the product is going on the market.

    I guess it comes down to whether you think the iPhone's unquestionable innovations outweigh its flaws. It remains to be seen if iPhone will follow the iPod in sales. What I can say for sure at this moment is that is certain iPhone will secure a certain niche of buyers, especially among Mac users."

    In addition lets not forget about DRM and the battery since its non removable. you can't just pop in another when one goes dead or malfunctions.The I phone also does not accept SD cards and 6GB is your limit. not bad for a phone but we treo users already have 8GB.

    "You dont want your phone to be like a PC. The last thing you want is to have loaded three apps on your phone and then you go to make a call and it doesnt work anymore"????? This is why Microsoft whooped your a** Jobs. We all want smaller pc's with built in phones. Nobody wants to lug around laptops anymore when they don't need too.
    01-14-2007 12:39 PM
  9. CGK#IM's Avatar
    Palm has till June to come out with a wide-screen Treo with a better OS and at least 4GB of space.

    Al

    Hum - I really don't see that happening - what is more likely is that you get a new treo XXX with go-faster stripes and they claim it's a "major upgrade".
    01-14-2007 12:40 PM
  10. mobileman's Avatar
    Mtreo,

    your out of your mind if you think there will be a slingplayer version available by the end of the year. I doubt steve will ever allow a competing video format on this device. Also the makes of docs to go would need to have permission and access to a sdk before they could create anything.
    01-14-2007 12:40 PM
  11. Malatesta's Avatar
    you're wasting your time with him.
    Just b/c you put a smiley at the end doesn't negate the fact you're being a jerk.
    01-14-2007 12:49 PM
  12. Malatesta's Avatar
    Oh Gosh,
    The phone was just announced . Do you think DOCs to GO will sit and not make a version for this bad boy or other wise apple would not make an app to open word document or excel for that matter? Similarly Outlook syncing ?
    Slingbox will come as the phone comes,for sure by the end of the year .
    People will find a way to unlock this bad boy and than T mo users will come .
    3G is the only issue , however if wifi is that frequently available , i atleast do n't care about 3G .
    You may or may not need that much battery life . I bet the charger is going to be small and easy to carry .
    In other words give the phone sometime .
    Slingplayer? How are you going to do that over 2g unless you are now saying I'll require a wifi connection. Awesome.

    You forgot streaming radio, GPS, network admin, VOIP, system security, ability to add 3rd party programs.

    Once again, this is a fancy multi-media phone not a smartphone as much as you want it to be.

    And lack of 3g is huge considering even regular handsets have that.

    see my other post on all of this:
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...0&postcount=12

    The RAZR does more "smartphone" things than the iPhone.

    Give it time? So you can proclaim it will do all of the above without giving time but I have to wait to say it does not compete with a Treo? Sounds fair. :shake:
    01-14-2007 12:55 PM
  13. oalvarez's Avatar
    Just b/c you put a smiley at the end doesn't negate the fact you're being a jerk.

    hey, why not one more!


    hopefully that will make you feel a little better, and perhaps want to treat others with some respect. and while you're trying to find some goodness in your heart, realize that others can have any opinion they want on these devices and that yours is not the only one. we understand that you think it is.

    can't wait to see what the iphone can do when released.
    01-14-2007 01:00 PM
  14. Malatesta's Avatar

    hey, why not one more!


    hopefully that will make you feel a little better, and perhaps want to treat others with some respect. and while you're trying to find some goodness in your heart, realize that others can have any opinion they want on these devices and that yours is not the only one. we understand that you think it is.

    can't wait to see what the iphone can do when released.
    Guess you ran out of actual arguments since you can't refute my posts.

    I'm confused as to what this forum is about: debate or just heap praise on a not yet-released-device?

    See, I thought we put forth positions/opinions then discuss or debate them. I'm not here to convince people to buy the 700wx or to not buy the iPhone, I am here to point out the differences between the two and to take the position that they are not equals in functionality.

    Others take the oppositie position and then we debate the merits of each others points put forth. If you do not like that system then you do not have to participate here.
    01-14-2007 01:06 PM
  15. taylorh's Avatar
    The way I see it. The iPhone really isn't intended to compete with or replace the PDA phones (WM5, Palmos, Sybmian.) Rather it's targeted toward 'phone' users like Razrs, flip phones, etc and particylarly those that are ipod users. After all it's the 'iPhone' not the 'iPDA'. So it'll do VERY well in that market. I just think it's way too expensive for what it is.

    Will the iPhone support push email? I didn't see tht feature.

    Lastly, it has no buttons, and I like buttons on my phones.
    01-14-2007 01:14 PM
  16. Malatesta's Avatar
    Will the iPhone support push email? I didn't see tht feature.
    It does but only from Yahoo. They seemed to have inked an exclusive deal (though not really exclusive as we can get push Yahoo via Yahoo 2go service already)
    01-14-2007 01:22 PM
  17. bruckwine's Avatar
    The way I see it. The iPhone really isn't intended to compete with or replace the PDA phones (WM5, Palmos, Sybmian.) Rather it's targeted toward 'phone' users like Razrs, flip phones, etc and particylarly those that are ipod users. After all it's the 'iPhone' not the 'iPDA'. So it'll do VERY well in that market. I just think it's way too expensive for what it is.

    Will the iPhone support push email? I didn't see tht feature.

    Lastly, it has no buttons, and I like buttons on my phones.
    exactly ! if anything Apple is trying to create a new niche between the one palm created adn the one companies like motorola and nokia dominate....thus of course they will get more sales than a treo...there are more ppl who use so-called 'dumb" phones (including myself) and this will draww fromt ht wide base..but it won't be killing any smartphones anytime soon..though it WILL stunt Palm's push into that low-end market with the 680 (which is still a much smarter phone)...
    01-14-2007 01:29 PM
  18. theafricannerd's Avatar
    The way I see it. The iPhone really isn't intended to compete with or replace the PDA phones (WM5, Palmos, Sybmian.) Rather it's targeted toward 'phone' users like Razrs, flip phones, etc and particylarly those that are ipod users. .
    I agree with this, but what gets under my skin is how Steve presentation purposely compared the iPHone to Smartphones, giviing the illusion that the iPHone is a better smartphone.
    01-14-2007 01:46 PM
  19. bruckwine's Avatar
    I agree with this, but what gets under my skin is how Steve presentation purposely compared the iPHone to Smartphones, giviing the illusion that the iPHone is a better smartphone.
    what he's doing with that RDF spin is get poptential smartphone buyers (say ppl who might try the treo 680 or blackjack)...unfortunately for them if they don't do the research well and the iPhone stays as it is now, spec and app-wise, they'll end up with a $600 (plus contractual $80 per month data+voice package for 2 yrs) with very limited productivity - it'll be more than enough for the mass consumer however so good for them.
    01-14-2007 02:02 PM
  20. bcaslis#IM's Avatar
    Where do you get this stuff from? They are offering it with Yahoo, but they have full IMAP and POP. There's nothing that says it does or doesn't do IMAP IDLE which is push. Until more details are available you can't make this assertion.

    It does but only from Yahoo. They seemed to have inked an exclusive deal (though not really exclusive as we can get push Yahoo via Yahoo 2go service already)
    01-14-2007 03:08 PM
  21. Malatesta's Avatar
    Where do you get this stuff from? They are offering it with Yahoo, but they have full IMAP and POP. There's nothing that says it does or doesn't do IMAP IDLE which is push. Until more details are available you can't make this assertion.
    The OP asked if it does PUSH email.

    Yes, with Yahoo.

    Where do I get this stuff from? I dunno, maybe Steve Jobs during his presentation?

    Maybe it does work with IMAP Idle, maybe it doesn't. I'm going by what Steve said and promoted.

    Why assert that "maybe it can do others" when there is no evidence? I'm going by what we actually know right now, not speculation. :shake: Last I checked WM5 and POS do IMAP too but no Idle (natively).

    Maybe it will allow me to fly, Steve didn't say it couldn't, right? How can I assert otherwise?

    I tell you what though: seeing as Yahoo made a special deal with Apple to promote and use their Push email system, I can almost guarantee you are locked into using it.

    Lets meet back in 4-5 months.
    01-14-2007 03:11 PM
  22. kmrivers's Avatar
    Anything with DRM is a no go in my book
    Wheres the DRM?
    01-14-2007 03:22 PM
  23. kmrivers's Avatar
    Slingplayer? How are you going to do that over 2g unless you are now saying I'll require a wifi connection. Awesome.

    You forgot streaming radio, GPS, network admin, VOIP, system security, ability to add 3rd party programs.

    Once again, this is a fancy multi-media phone not a smartphone as much as you want it to be.

    And lack of 3g is huge considering even regular handsets have that.

    see my other post on all of this:
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...0&postcount=12

    The RAZR does more "smartphone" things than the iPhone.

    Give it time? So you can proclaim it will do all of the above without giving time but I have to wait to say it does not compete with a Treo? Sounds fair. :shake:
    Most of America can not get 3G anyhow.

    From David Pogues FAQ List: "Does it get onto the HSDPA (3G) high-speed Internet network that Cingular has rolled out in a few cities? No. But Steve Jobs said a later version of the iPhone will once theres enough HSDPA coverage in this country to justify it."

    I am going to use this to comment on the 3rd party apps as well. It has already been stated from many outless direct from Jobs and others that there will be 3rd party support. How exactly that will be handled is unknown. It won't be open to everyone and their mother of course, I am fine with that. I would rather have apps that have gone through Apple to ensure quality and that the phone will work as a phone. Many apps have made my 650 tank.

    Documents will come. It reads PDFs right now. The lack of iWork at MWSF has some suggesting tight intergration between the iPhone and iWork.

    Within 6 months of release this phone will have documents both viewing and editing. As well as much of the other things people are talking about.

    Calm down folks. And yes give it time. I think Apple is off to a good start here. Honestly it doesn't seem like they are aiming for the professional with this one. Or maybe they need time to get some of those things in here.

    I saw one comment about the plan being $200 a month. Please. Apple isn't going to price themselves out of the market with a plan that expensive.

    My guess is that we will see custom pricing on a tier much like the other Apple products.

    My hope: Unlimted text and data on every plan. With varying minutes starting at $59.99.

    May be a dream, but if anyone can get it from Cingular it is Apple. Talk of custom plans have already been rumored. Doing this cuts down on the confusion associated with buying a product, which is how Apple likes it.
    01-14-2007 03:38 PM
  24. kmrivers's Avatar
    The OP asked if it does PUSH email.

    Yes, with Yahoo.

    Where do I get this stuff from? I dunno, maybe Steve Jobs during his presentation?

    Maybe it does work with IMAP Idle, maybe it doesn't. I'm going by what Steve said and promoted.

    Why assert that "maybe it can do others" when there is no evidence? I'm going by what we actually know right now, not speculation. :shake: Last I checked WM5 and POS do IMAP too but no Idle (natively).

    Maybe it will allow me to fly, Steve didn't say it couldn't, right? How can I assert otherwise?

    I tell you what though: seeing as Yahoo made a special deal with Apple to promote and use their Push email system, I can almost guarantee you are locked into using it.

    Lets meet back in 4-5 months.
    Did you watch the keynote. He mentioned multiple email services, said just about any email service is compatible with iPhone. So I dount you would be locked into using Yahoo.

    This isnt speculation. This is a fact. Will I be using the Yahoo when I get it? Heck yeah. It is push. I don't want to have to poll it myself.

    You wont have to use it though. And this is based on what Jobs said during the keynote.
    01-14-2007 03:45 PM
  25. Malatesta's Avatar
    Most of America can not get 3G anyhow.

    From David Pogues FAQ List: "Does it get onto the HSDPA (3G) high-speed Internet network that Cingular has rolled out in a few cities? –No. But Steve Jobs said a later version of the iPhone will — once there’s enough HSDPA coverage in this country to justify it."
    Most of America? Maybe with poor Cingular. (Sprint rolled out it's first 3g device in Sep 2005...)

    Either way that is a lame cop out. There is no reason that it couldn't come out with HSDPA and as the network grows, you get 3G.

    Or, like the Cingular Treo 750 have it upgradeable via software when the time is right (if the iPhone is software upgradeable it has not been mentioned and they're being very hush-hush about it. I keep hearing "later devices" which is a great way to screw customers...again. By the time you get a 3g iPhone, Sprint will be well into 4G Wimax. )
    Documents will come. It reads PDFs right now. The lack of iWork at MWSF has some suggesting tight intergration between the iPhone and iWork.

    Within 6 months of release this phone will have documents both viewing and editing. As well as much of the other things people are talking about.
    Maybe, maybe not. This is speculation. I'm not sure editing on such a device will be a fun adventure (highlighting, selecting, cells, etc.)
    01-14-2007 03:50 PM
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