I'm not a Treo die-hard by any means but one look at the demos Apple had on their site completely blew me away. Even though it will end up being an expensive move, I'm going to very seriously consider taking the ETF and ditching Sprint for Cingular after less than a year with the 700p. The Treo (and for that matter every other current gen smartphone on the market) simply won't be able to compete with the level of functionality and polish that this product will offer. Even if it is a buggy POS, it will still stand above the competition (which also all happen to be buggy POSes). I wonder what the 700p will fetch on Ebay?
THE Treo Killer - the iPhone
- Thread starter pabo
- Start date
I'm not a Treo die-hard by any means but one look at the demos Apple had on their site completely blew me away. Even though it will end up being an expensive move, I'm going to very seriously consider taking the ETF and ditching Sprint for Cingular after less than a year with the 700p. The Treo (and for that matter every other current gen smartphone on the market) simply won't be able to compete with the level of functionality and polish that this product will offer. Even if it is a buggy POS, it will still stand above the competition (which also all happen to be buggy POSes). I wonder what the 700p will fetch on Ebay?
Yeah, well, I admit the device is everything we could have ever hoped for and more. I can't believe Apple finally released a product that everyone has been screaming for so long. And did it beyond anyones hopes. Honestly, the Palm OS finally died today. Palm might limp along selling Windows CE Treo's to the business market, but Palm OS is dead dead dead.
It's hard to believe a company could jump into the smartphone market and with their first generation product not only leap-frog ALL the competition, but clobber it sufficiently that it will take years for any of them to come even close. Apple/NeXT spent DECADES building the foundation that sets this phone apart from anyone else's product. Symbian will take years to approach it. Windows CE, too. The only people who won't buy this phone will be those who can't afford it (until Apple can create a cheaper one) and those who have to use a business provided phone (Blackberry/CE/etc). In six months my Treo, and every other non-business smartphone, will be a paper weight.
Of course, the phone could be a buggy piece of crap on arrival in June, but somehow I really doubt it. And, of course, Sony could take the low road and dress up their phones with more glitter and better integrated apps and then sell them at a much lower price point than Apple. That's pretty much the industries only hope to sell around Apple.
And what really p***es everyone in the industry off? Apple doesn't license.
It's hard to believe a company could jump into the smartphone market and with their first generation product not only leap-frog ALL the competition, but clobber it sufficiently that it will take years for any of them to come even close. Apple/NeXT spent DECADES building the foundation that sets this phone apart from anyone else's product. Symbian will take years to approach it. Windows CE, too. The only people who won't buy this phone will be those who can't afford it (until Apple can create a cheaper one) and those who have to use a business provided phone (Blackberry/CE/etc). In six months my Treo, and every other non-business smartphone, will be a paper weight.
Of course, the phone could be a buggy piece of crap on arrival in June, but somehow I really doubt it. And, of course, Sony could take the low road and dress up their phones with more glitter and better integrated apps and then sell them at a much lower price point than Apple. That's pretty much the industries only hope to sell around Apple.
And what really p***es everyone in the industry off? Apple doesn't license.
I generally agree with that line of thinking, but in this case, I'd think that BT 2.0 and the kind of device it is means that A2DP is a given.
Also, I'm more than surprised when people are dismissive of 8 frickin' gigs of storage, when the Treo gets a pat on the back for falling short of 3-digit Megs.
That said,...
* dial-up networking is a must. (Maybe it shouldn't be, but it's more important to me than wi-fi.)
* MS Office-compatible programs are a must.
* Screen protection is a must, although I'm not sure how we can both protect it AND use it - even with a thin film over it. No buttons means fewer possible broken parts, but it also means you can't just keep the screen covered while you use the buttons.
Under what circumstances? Are you a new user? Did you sign a two-year contract?
Give us some context, please.
I like the ability to keep putting different cards in my Treo, too, but memory-wise, the iPhone kills all other smartphones AND most Nano's.
I'd love it if the thing accepted external cards, too (not to mention a removable battery), but I couldn't bring myself to say "only 8GB." I'm amazed that anyone could.
Btw, a removable battery is extremely important. I just had to say that, again.
sir_mycroft
Member
Why I am not buying the iPhone (yet).
It's not avaialable until June.
Alright all kidding aside, after my mini-technogasm and metophoric cigarette I have calmed down and examined the thing rationally. I have decided to will wait until iPhone's next gen to deside to abandon Treo for the following reasons:
1. GSM: Sorry you international folks, I have used both CDMA & GSM phones extensively, I just see no comparison for building penetration, reception, or voice quality here in the U.S. CDMA is superior.
2. Non-removable battery: Treo made this mistake in the begining too. But there is big difference with your ipod running out of juice and your phone running out.
3. No expansion card: I know, this is not how apple operates, they want you to buy new gadgets with higher GBs, but really, do you want to buy a new iphone every six months when you run out of space?
4. EDGE: It looked peppy on wifi, but what hapens when you take it off the rez? How can Jobs say this phone is 5 years ahead of the competition with 2 year old data speeds? I am sure when 3G rolls out for GSM this will not be an issue. I am also sure you will need to buy a new phone.
5. Contract: I think Apple is making a mistake with the exclusivity agreement with AT&T. People like choices, have carrier loyalty and have contract obligations. If they really wanted to seize market share the need to use multiple carriers. It would be throwing good money after bad for many to pay penalties to one carrier, just to fork over $600 to another.
6. Finally, it aint a smartphone: You take what Apple feeds you, and that's it. For most, this will not matter, and even I might live with it depending on software availability (an unknown at this time), but for many, the smartphone is the thing.
I have more, but those are the main issues. I will wait and see the bugs shake out before biting.
It's not avaialable until June.
Alright all kidding aside, after my mini-technogasm and metophoric cigarette I have calmed down and examined the thing rationally. I have decided to will wait until iPhone's next gen to deside to abandon Treo for the following reasons:
1. GSM: Sorry you international folks, I have used both CDMA & GSM phones extensively, I just see no comparison for building penetration, reception, or voice quality here in the U.S. CDMA is superior.
2. Non-removable battery: Treo made this mistake in the begining too. But there is big difference with your ipod running out of juice and your phone running out.
3. No expansion card: I know, this is not how apple operates, they want you to buy new gadgets with higher GBs, but really, do you want to buy a new iphone every six months when you run out of space?
4. EDGE: It looked peppy on wifi, but what hapens when you take it off the rez? How can Jobs say this phone is 5 years ahead of the competition with 2 year old data speeds? I am sure when 3G rolls out for GSM this will not be an issue. I am also sure you will need to buy a new phone.
5. Contract: I think Apple is making a mistake with the exclusivity agreement with AT&T. People like choices, have carrier loyalty and have contract obligations. If they really wanted to seize market share the need to use multiple carriers. It would be throwing good money after bad for many to pay penalties to one carrier, just to fork over $600 to another.
6. Finally, it aint a smartphone: You take what Apple feeds you, and that's it. For most, this will not matter, and even I might live with it depending on software availability (an unknown at this time), but for many, the smartphone is the thing.
I have more, but those are the main issues. I will wait and see the bugs shake out before biting.
That's a concern of mine. If your phone runs out of juice and you can't pop in another battery, you're in for quite the inconvience.
I'd love expansion options, but no fair suggesting the iPhone's 8GB will be insufficient in 6 mos, without saying the same about the Treo's piddly MegaBytes.
Sure, you can keep buying cards, but you're also switching'em out.
Again, I agree that expansion is a great option, but 8GB internal is impressive, as well.
What's "the rez" and why would I want to take something off of it?
I assumed (and admittedly, this is just an assumption) that Apple was just doing what Palm did - making the device available exclusively with one carrier, then expanding from there.
Hard to say. If it's really running a full operating system, there's great potential there - which could make it much smarter than the Treo ever was.
Kinda sad that we've got 6mos. to wait for the bugs to even debut.
shadowboxer
Member
Only 8 GIGS of memory????? Who needs a removable card with 8 GIGS of built in memory. OMG, think of the possibilities....
Go to this link http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/the-apple-iphone/, and page down somewhat, and there is indeed a finger operated querty keyboard that looks pretty cool.
As to the replaceable battery, the battery life looks phenomenal and like the ipods, I am sure apple will have a quick and easy battery replacement program for when the time comes. I don't see that as a problem.
all in all, compared to what is out there this thing is freaking unbelievable!!! (imho)
Battery Issues...
The non-removable battery issue is, imho, a moot point.
1. How many cell phones out there have removable batteries anyway? The vast majority of the public is used to recharging their cell phone periodically. End of story.
2. There are a number of portable recharging devices that can be used to recharge a cell or ipod. They are not much bigger than the treo 700 replacement batteries, and come in lots of varieties (take "AAA" batteries, etc).
Having looked at the iphone, I'm believe the treo will be greatly affected in the negative. My next phone will be the iPhone.
Lou
The non-removable battery issue is, imho, a moot point.
1. How many cell phones out there have removable batteries anyway? The vast majority of the public is used to recharging their cell phone periodically. End of story.
2. There are a number of portable recharging devices that can be used to recharge a cell or ipod. They are not much bigger than the treo 700 replacement batteries, and come in lots of varieties (take "AAA" batteries, etc).
Having looked at the iphone, I'm believe the treo will be greatly affected in the negative. My next phone will be the iPhone.
Lou
I feel a lot like you do, but when I think of taking a picture with the 2 MegaPixel camera (which I have yet to see in any demos) and not being able to slap the pic on a card and slapt the card in a computer, ...
When I got my first digital camera, I didn't see what the big deal was about hooking your device up to the computer to transfer pix. Now I see that it can be an inconvenience.
For one thing, keeping that doggone cord with you may be a pain. For another, the device has to be handy AND juiced-up.
It's an unnecessary inconvenience.
The quickest, easiest, AND CHEAPEST battery replacement solution is to allow the user to replace his/her own battery.Go to this link http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/the-apple-iphone/, and page down somewhat, and there is indeed a finger operated querty keyboard that looks pretty cool.
As to the replaceable battery, the battery life looks phenomenal and like the ipods, I am sure apple will have a quick and easy battery replacement program for when the time comes. I don't see that as a problem.
all in all, compared to what is out there this thing is freaking unbelievable!!! (imho)
Not really.
I dunno what phones you've been looking at, but there are a number of them that have replaceable batteries.
I'm not just talking smartphones, either. My previous clamshell had a removable battery and even had optional travel batteries with greater capacities.
Sometimes, we run out of juice at inconvenient times. It'd be nice - no, at times, it'd be ESSENTIAL to be able to replace the battery as quickly as I can do so with my Treo.
Are they one-use devices or can they be used time and again?
All I've seen are one-use devices. It'd be much more economical and convenient to put that power in the consumer's hands, from the get-go.
I'm extremely tempted, but I wanna know more, first.
waldo15
New member
I'll jump in to save the ugly maiden now called Treo... I'll do the best I can to play devil's advocate against the iPhone (Steve Jobs, please don't read my following post! I promise is just an excercise of the mind ):
- Lack of expandability. Yes, 8GB is a lot of memory by today's standards. And we are all assuming those 8GB are user accesible, no mention how much of that is taken by the OS/apps. Anyhow, assuming 8GB for the user, I can see myself filling it up with music and movies somewhat fast. A regular 1:30 hrs movie for a 320 by 240 screen takes about 200MB-500MB or so depending on the quality, and with the bigger iPhone screen I will certainly rip my movies for a larger format; AACs are slightly bigger than MP3s... so yes, expansion could be needed at some point. Let us say that expansion ports/cards so far have not made a phone worse.
- EDGE vs UMTS vs EVDO vs WiFi. This has been the ongoing Treo discussion for ages, as well as for other phones. Definitely is a let down any way you see it that the iPhone only handles EDGE, that is a hard fact that many webblogs are pointing out. The device certainly has other attractive features to distract us from that shortcoming, particularly the switch over to WiFi when possible.
UMTS/HSDPA are at this point very limited in coverage. EVDO today wins that race. How do I know? Because I own a 3G PC card from Cingular for my laptop and I have a Treo 700p that I can use as a modem too. In the same location I use both and I have not gotten solid 3G coverage yet in Portland, OR (Portland IS included in the 3G list by Cingular). True fact, when I get 3G the speeds are amazing.
EDGE certainly is usable, but the omision of a 3G service in the phone may be the one blemish that could tip a few users before upgrading.
And yes, as much as one wants to defend the Treo... the thing does not have WiFi included. Period. There's no saving grace in that around these days.
- Lack of real keyboard. As it was mentioned in a few of the several posts in this iPhone topic, tactile feedback is what makes or breaks usability. Indeed a touch-based keyboard sounds good for writting down a speedy note or short email, but to go and type a full blog post online while I am in my lunch break, I'll take my small Treo keyboard any day of the week. Ok, maybe after trying the iPhone I could change my mind, but today I am square-minded and I believe my real keyboard still deserves the crown.
- That screen is screaming scratches/cracks/you-name-it. If the Treo requires some extra care... man the iPhone requires national security level attention!
So those are my points on saving Private Treo... now Steve Jobs, if you did not pay attention and read my post, shame on you! But I am more than open to receive an iPhone sample to test and maybe that will help change my mind
):- Lack of expandability. Yes, 8GB is a lot of memory by today's standards. And we are all assuming those 8GB are user accesible, no mention how much of that is taken by the OS/apps. Anyhow, assuming 8GB for the user, I can see myself filling it up with music and movies somewhat fast. A regular 1:30 hrs movie for a 320 by 240 screen takes about 200MB-500MB or so depending on the quality, and with the bigger iPhone screen I will certainly rip my movies for a larger format; AACs are slightly bigger than MP3s... so yes, expansion could be needed at some point. Let us say that expansion ports/cards so far have not made a phone worse.
- EDGE vs UMTS vs EVDO vs WiFi. This has been the ongoing Treo discussion for ages, as well as for other phones. Definitely is a let down any way you see it that the iPhone only handles EDGE, that is a hard fact that many webblogs are pointing out. The device certainly has other attractive features to distract us from that shortcoming, particularly the switch over to WiFi when possible.
UMTS/HSDPA are at this point very limited in coverage. EVDO today wins that race. How do I know? Because I own a 3G PC card from Cingular for my laptop and I have a Treo 700p that I can use as a modem too. In the same location I use both and I have not gotten solid 3G coverage yet in Portland, OR (Portland IS included in the 3G list by Cingular). True fact, when I get 3G the speeds are amazing.
EDGE certainly is usable, but the omision of a 3G service in the phone may be the one blemish that could tip a few users before upgrading.
And yes, as much as one wants to defend the Treo... the thing does not have WiFi included. Period. There's no saving grace in that around these days.
- Lack of real keyboard. As it was mentioned in a few of the several posts in this iPhone topic, tactile feedback is what makes or breaks usability. Indeed a touch-based keyboard sounds good for writting down a speedy note or short email, but to go and type a full blog post online while I am in my lunch break, I'll take my small Treo keyboard any day of the week. Ok, maybe after trying the iPhone I could change my mind, but today I am square-minded and I believe my real keyboard still deserves the crown.
- That screen is screaming scratches/cracks/you-name-it. If the Treo requires some extra care... man the iPhone requires national security level attention!
So those are my points on saving Private Treo... now Steve Jobs, if you did not pay attention and read my post, shame on you! But I am more than open to receive an iPhone sample to test and maybe that will help change my mind
5) People like choices. - When dealing with inferior products or systems choices are a must as you are choosing between the lesser of two evile e.g., do I go with the 700wx that can multi-task or with the 700p that has a better screen. Choices are a moot point if something is a far superior product. Take a look at Itunes, that choiceless music system is working out just fine.
6)If you honestly went to www.apple.com/iphone, watched the keynote and think that ain't a smartphone then i'd hate to hear what you call a Treo!
whmurray
Well-known member
You CDMA folks have had it your way for a long time.
As to "superiority," I have used both. I believe the hype about the technical superiority of CDMA. However, it no longer makes a difference. My GSM is as good as my wire; that is good enough.
whmurray
Well-known member
whmurray
Well-known member
whmurray
Well-known member
whmurray
Well-known member
Not. I made enough money on my 100 shares of Apple to buy two before Jobs finished talking.Well at least Steve Jobs come out pounding. I will give him credit. The biggest draw back of this phone is the price. I mean, it's like a phone from da future!
sschlesinger
Well-known member
I think the Iphone is a very nice looking phone far better looking then the treo and most likely any other phone out there. I would love to get on EXCEPT no keyboard, I don't care how much that it has a special multi touch screen. No key board no phone. This is why I got rid of my 6700 for a treo atleast the 6700 had a slide out keyboard and sure it sucked for doing things one handed but i think having a keyboard will be a lot easier then touch screen.
Imagine how dirty the iphone screen is gonna get.
oh and one last thing for everyone to keep in mind before jumping on the iphone bandwagon.
FIRST GENERATIONS TOYS OF THIS MAGNITUDE USUALLY FIND TROUBLE I WOULD WAIT TILL SECOND OR THIRD GENS TO COME OUT.
Imagine how dirty the iphone screen is gonna get.
oh and one last thing for everyone to keep in mind before jumping on the iphone bandwagon.
FIRST GENERATIONS TOYS OF THIS MAGNITUDE USUALLY FIND TROUBLE I WOULD WAIT TILL SECOND OR THIRD GENS TO COME OUT.
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