1. whmurray's Avatar
    You mean no GSM Palm OS 3G. OS can't handle UMTS, so I've read. Palm's OLD OS can't handle several things, it seems. :shake:
    One may infer that it cannot. However, one might infer that Cingular and T-Mobile are simply not interested in it.

    In any case "Not WM" can now handle UMTS. Ain't it grand?
    01-10-2007 04:13 PM
  2. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    Most other OS have been proven to handle UMTS, EXCEPT the Palm OS. WM, Symbian, UIQ all have UMTS phones out. Not all for the US however, but still they're available.
    01-10-2007 04:26 PM
  3. whmurray's Avatar
    Most other OS have been proven to handle UMTS, EXCEPT the Palm OS. WM, Symbian, UIQ all have UMTS phones out. Not all for the US however, but still they're available.
    I have no problem with infering that POS cannot do UMTS; I think it is a justified, if not "safe," assumption. I object to having to infer. I object to Palm's silence. If it is a fundamental limitation, they should say so. If there is never ever going to be a POS/UMTS device, they should say so. They should not leave us hanging. While I am not one of them, there may be some who would move to WM if they knew that it was futile to wait.

    If they have a plan to remove the limitation I would like them to say that too, but that is not as important.
    01-10-2007 05:23 PM
  4. Trevante's Avatar
    I have no problem with infering that POS cannot do UMTS; I think it is a justified, if not "safe," assumption. I object to having to infer. I object to Palm's silence. If it is a fundamental limitation, they should say so. If there is never ever going to be a POS/UMTS device, they should say so. They should not leave us hanging. While I am not one of them, there may be some who would move to WM if they knew that it was futile to wait.

    If they have a plan to remove the limitation I would like them to say that too, but that is not as important.
    They should say so, but it wouldn't look good for Palm to come out and say "Yea, our OS is really old and doesn't support multitasking, which is why it doesn't support UMTS and HSDPA or wifi". Generally, most companies aren't going to come out and say something that would potentially turn customers away or make them look bad, especially if they have some other less shameful excuse they can give you.

    I don't remember who exactly it was, but in one of the pre-700p vids, a higher up Palm person was interviewed about the 700p. He said the 700p didn't need wifi because it had Ev-DO and wifi would eat the battery too quickly. He didn't (and probably wouldn't ever) tell you that PalmOS can't handle wifi on a Treo.
    01-10-2007 06:15 PM
  5. Pearl_Diva's Avatar
    That's one of the same tired excuses they've been using for ages!
    01-10-2007 07:59 PM
  6. IIJBII's Avatar
    My 650 works fine.
    My daughter's 700p works fine.

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...63&postcount=3

    What features will the iPhone have. . . . . . that is not in the market?

    Just the Apple name is enough?
    Perry - The simple anwser: The iPhone will have a company that supports its product. Which is good enough for me!

    I personally don't think it's a question of "new" features. I think it's essentially built off of existing features but enhanced the "Apple" way. This is how I see Technology growing. There hasn't been anything really earth shattering lately, but there have been some great improvements on existing features.

    Not sure what you're looking for here. If the iPhone isn't for you, thats cool....Apple's shown (with the iPod) that they know what works. I'm sure they know there's a huge demand for this type of device.
    01-10-2007 08:23 PM
  7. Keefer Lucas's Avatar
    Me.

    I've been with Verizon Mobile, then Bell Atlantic Mobile since 1984.
    I'll happilly pay the termination fee, sell my 700w for whatever I can get for it and pick up a pair of the iPhones for my wife and myself.

    Right after you cash in those backdated stock options
    01-10-2007 09:58 PM
  8. razorpit's Avatar
    Steve demonstrated adding/editing contacts and favorites. I assume the same is possible for the calendar app.
    Thanks MrJoeC I missed that in the presentation. I assumed you could but you know whats happens....

    --Dave
    01-10-2007 11:16 PM
  9. oalvarez's Avatar
    die hards (or is it blow-hards) will always remain. and remember, there aren't as many as you think. this whole power user thing is freakin' nonsense.

    i agree with you Lady Diva
    01-10-2007 11:51 PM
  10. MacUser's Avatar
    How many people are willing to change carriers or pay a termination fee just to get a new phone, cool as it may be?
    I think a lot of people would switch, especially now that you can take your phone number with you.

    Remember, there are probably a lot of people who want an iPhone and now won't take on a new contract over the next 6 months anticipating their June Cingular purchase.

    Then, there are those that just have to have it and will terminate.
    01-10-2007 11:59 PM
  11. mrjoec's Avatar
    How many people are willing to change carriers or pay a termination fee just to get a new phone, cool as it may be?
    I don't have to, because I'm already with Cingular. But if Apple had gone with Verizon or Sprint, I probably would have been willing to switch, after thinking about it for maybe ten minutes or so.

    I wouldn't blame others who didn't want to, however. I never thought about switching to get a "better" Treo, when the 700p came out. 3G speed just wasn't enough of a motivator. The iPhone's UI would be worth the hassle and cost, for me at least.

    With 58 million current Cingular customers, Apple doesn't have to worry too much about convincing people to switch carriers. At least not at first.
    01-11-2007 01:05 AM
  12. mrjoec's Avatar
    Thanks for the comments, Marc. We (well, it's probably just me) don't get all of the variables at work in this game. You're right--it is to simplistic to think that a hardware manufacturer can make a decision without considering the (ahem) input from the carriers.
    This is true for Palm, but according to many reports, some from Steve and Cingular's CEO themselves, the iPhone was developed entirely by Apple according to exactly what Apple wanted. Cingular agreed to work with Apple without knowing any of the details of iPhone. No one at Cingular even saw iPhone until a few weeks ago. They worked together to make visual voicemail happen, but that was Apple's desire, and Cingular agreed to it.

    Palm just doesn't have the clout in the industry to pull that off. Doesn't mean that other companies don't.
    01-11-2007 01:15 AM
  13. mrjoec's Avatar
    That said, I avoid long term contracts. I pay the "termination fee" up front.
    I usually do too, but it looks like this time it won't be an option. The $599 is with a 2-year contract. No mention of whether or not iPhone will even be available without a contract. I assume not.
    01-11-2007 01:19 AM
  14. mrjoec's Avatar
    By the way, I went to the Expo today and got a glimpse for myself. Even under glass, iPhone, like most Apple products, looks even better in person than it does in pictures. It's smaller than I thought. Very slightly taller and wider than the Treo, but a LOT thinner. Should fit well into a pocket.

    I no longer believe Palm's excuse that the touch screen necessitates a fat device.

    I think the retail presence of Apple's and Cingular's physical stores is going to help sell this thing. It just begs to be touched and fiddled with.
    01-11-2007 01:23 AM
  15. MacUser's Avatar
    By the way, I went to the Expo today and got a glimpse for myself. Even under glass, iPhone, like most Apple products, looks even better in person than it does in pictures. It's smaller than I thought. Very slightly taller and wider than the Treo, but a LOT thinner. Should fit well into a pocket.

    I no longer believe Palm's excuse that the touch screen necessitates a fat device.

    I think the retail presence of Apple's and Cingular's physical stores is going to help sell this thing. It just begs to be touched and fiddled with.
    Thanks for the 1st hand accounting. I can't wait for a hands-on opportunity either.
    01-11-2007 06:29 AM
  16. Keefer Lucas's Avatar
    I usually do too, but it looks like this time it won't be an option. The $599 is with a 2-year contract. No mention of whether or not iPhone will even be available without a contract. I assume not.
    I, personally, can't wait for the postings to start from users who want to know if they can buy the phone without the dataplan
    01-11-2007 06:49 AM
  17. whmurray's Avatar
    I, personally, can't wait for the postings to start from users who want to know if they can buy the phone without the dataplan
    Come on, guys. This is all about price. Apple understands price. In the short run, there are not going to be enough of these at any price. People will be sleeping in the streets.
    01-11-2007 07:55 AM
  18. whmurray's Avatar
    They should say so, but it wouldn't look good for Palm to come out and say "Yea, our OS is really old and doesn't support multitasking, which is why it doesn't support UMTS and HSDPA or wifi". Generally, most companies aren't going to come out and say something that would potentially turn customers away or make them look bad, especially if they have some other less shameful excuse they can give you.

    I don't remember who exactly it was, but in one of the pre-700p vids, a higher up Palm person was interviewed about the 700p. He said the 700p didn't need wifi because it had Ev-DO and wifi would eat the battery too quickly. He didn't (and probably wouldn't ever) tell you that PalmOS can't handle wifi on a Treo.
    You may be right. A little candor might destroy Palm. They clearly think so.
    01-11-2007 07:59 AM
  19. whmurray's Avatar
    Newsweek list of ten companies that should fear the iPhone. Guess who made number 1 on the list....

    http://mytech.talk.newsweek.com/default.asp?item=424985
    Ed, this is what your friends say. The last real Palm innovation was the 600. Since then all you have done is re-arrange feature sets and carriers, deck chairs on the Titanic.
    01-11-2007 11:01 AM
  20. sschlesinger's Avatar
    Perry - The simple anwser: The iPhone will have a company that supports its product. Which is good enough for me!

    I personally don't think it's a question of "new" features. I think it's essentially built off of existing features but enhanced the "Apple" way. This is how I see Technology growing. There hasn't been anything really earth shattering lately, but there have been some great improvements on existing features.
    Not sure what you're looking for here. If the iPhone isn't for you, thats cool....Apple's shown (with the iPod) that they know what works. I'm sure they know there's a huge demand for this type of device.

    I think the main feature of this phone is not to have to carry around an ipod and separate phone at the same time. While you may not think of this as a main feature it is considered more of a functional feature, Apple knows what todays society wants, lets face it itunes just sold it's 2 billionth song now thats a lot of music. http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2007/01/09itunes.html
    Before I had a treo I had an ipod and separate phone and it sucked to have to charge two devices at once or buy two different types of accessories. Call me lazy and cheap (which I am). I like society want cheap, easy and convenience.
    01-12-2007 02:31 AM
  21. bigwalton's Avatar
    size:
    Someone mentioned this after seeing it in person and I had to pull out a ruler to convince myself, but the front view size of this thing is barely over the size of my 650 WITHOUT the antenna (tech specs on Apple's site). The photo on Apple's site appeared larger than actual size on my screen. Until I noticed that, i was thinking it was going to be too large.

    two key issues
    Everything will rest on two issues in my mind as to how much this will or won't kill Palm (supposing they don't quickly come out with new models): the utility of the touch-screen keyboard (I love my 650's keys) and how quickly they get developers to build out apps (Office documents especially for the business user).

    storage space
    The other thing that I've not seen mentioned is that this isn't a video iPod replacement necessarily, it's more like a video iPod shuffle. People keep commenting on the storage space being that of a nano, and it is, but that's why it syncs with your computer and iTunes already has the function to auto-fill a certain amount of space at random.

    Like with a shuffle and music... you can't have all of your music on it at once, but you can put enough on it for a good long while before your next sync puts something else on there automatically or you put things on there manually. Same with the iPhone exept it's video and music now.

    Apple has a HUGE iTunes/iPod customer base out there with stuff on their computer that they can swap out on the iphone all they want. They don't have to have it ALL on there, these folks are already used to syncing and it's not daunting for them to think about moving music and videos back and forth.... also, since it's a phone, you'll be interacting with it more often and will have it handy. I leave my iPod in my Jeep for weeks at a time, I'd be more apt to update an iphone a lot more often.

    two-finger actions
    We all should have seen this coming... anyone with a Mac laptop with the two-finger scrolling function tried using another laptop? I HATE having to deal without this.

    I will be in the store the first day they have these to play and play. Thank you SunCom for sucking so bad that I switched to Cingular for my 650!!!!

    coolest thing
    I can't wait to see what happens to this market now that all of the other companies will have to try to keep up. BRING ON THE COOL GADETS!!!
    01-12-2007 03:37 AM
  22. IIJBII's Avatar
    size:

    two key issues
    Everything will rest on two issues in my mind as to how much this will or won't kill Palm (supposing they don't quickly come out with new models): the utility of the touch-screen keyboard (I love my 650's keys) and how quickly they get developers to build out apps (Office documents especially for the business user).
    It seems we all keep forgetting this isn't geared towards "business" users initially. I think eventually it will grow to that, but the initial launch isn't targeted for that market. I think it's for consumers who like or wanted a Treo or BB but didn't make the jump yet.
    01-12-2007 06:09 AM
  23. bigwalton's Avatar
    It seems we all keep forgetting this isn't geared towards "business" users initially. I think eventually it will grow to that, but the initial launch isn't targeted for that market. I think it's for consumers who like or wanted a Treo or BB but didn't make the jump yet.
    I know that, but it's so close in all other respects, why wouldn't you go after that too as a big secondary market?

    IMHO, the fact that it will have Wifi makes it almost STUPID not to go after business users with the lack of that particular feature on most phones, Palms and BBs. I'm around wifi almost all day except in the car. Wifi speed all day long makes me smile and remember about the only cool part about my old Tungsten C other than the keyboard.

    With the iphone running some flavor of OSX, I'm assuming that VPNs and corporate mail access won't be a big problem... so what else is there that would stop it from being perfect for a business user? My biggest personal need would be Office apps (I'm assuming PDFs wouldn't be an issue either with OSX as an OS)
    01-12-2007 10:14 AM
  24. IIJBII's Avatar
    I know that, but it's so close in all other respects, why wouldn't you go after that too as a big secondary market?

    IMHO, the fact that it will have Wifi makes it almost STUPID not to go after business users with the lack of that particular feature on most phones, Palms and BBs. I'm around wifi almost all day except in the car. Wifi speed all day long makes me smile and remember about the only cool part about my old Tungsten C other than the keyboard.

    With the iphone running some flavor of OSX, I'm assuming that VPNs and corporate mail access won't be a big problem... so what else is there that would stop it from being perfect for a business user? My biggest personal need would be Office apps (I'm assuming PDFs wouldn't be an issue either with OSX as an OS)
    I agree that in the future they should make a model geared at business users... if they want to go into that market with this device. My opinion of this current device is that some folks are compairing it to devices that arent geared for the same use. Clearly its not an Enterprise geared device. Corp america won't be trading in their Treos and BB to make a massive move to the iPhone. This isn't what Apple built the device around.... Therefore; compairing it to a Treo or a BB is difficult (again my opnion). It's like trying to make the Pink Razr fit a business need/requirement....You can try, but its going to be difficult to do. This is because thats not the market it has been designed for. I feel we need to keep this in mind when compairing devices. Otherwise I think expectations and preceptions can be skewed.

    Again this is totally my opnion on this, I may be WAY off-Base all together. I'm not trying to offend anyone either, I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents to the iPhone.
    01-12-2007 10:37 AM
  25. Trevante's Avatar
    I know that, but it's so close in all other respects, why wouldn't you go after that too as a big secondary market?

    IMHO, the fact that it will have Wifi makes it almost STUPID not to go after business users with the lack of that particular feature on most phones, Palms and BBs. I'm around wifi almost all day except in the car. Wifi speed all day long makes me smile and remember about the only cool part about my old Tungsten C other than the keyboard.

    With the iphone running some flavor of OSX, I'm assuming that VPNs and corporate mail access won't be a big problem... so what else is there that would stop it from being perfect for a business user? My biggest personal need would be Office apps (I'm assuming PDFs wouldn't be an issue either with OSX as an OS)
    Having wifi does not necesarily mean it's geared to or will appeal towards business users

    For starters, how is a business user going to sync his iPhone with his corporate Exchange server? If everything we've read about third party apps not being available and Apple hasnt put in Exchange support themselves, then how will people access Exchange servers?

    How is a business user going to have office productivity on the go?

    Where's the high speed data connection? A real business user would rather go for a TyTn (8525) or a 750 because of the faster data speeds. EDGE, or UMTS/HSDPA....which would you rather have if you're trying to get things done quicker?

    I'm quite sure the main reason they put wifi on it was because of the lack of 3G data, and because their targer market (the consumer market) may not want to pay Cingular's high data rates (I believe it's something like $40 a month for unlimited data)

    Not to mention that most corporations wouldn't want to spend $500 or $600 on phones for their employees, when they could get more functional, more practical devices for less than that.

    If they want business users to get interested in the iPhone, remove the 4GB/8GB of storage and put in an external memory slot (SD), put on a real keyboard, and proper Exchange support and Office productivity. It would probably be a good idea to also open up to third parties so people can use Goodlink and Blackberry Exchange if they need to.
    01-12-2007 10:39 AM
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