1. I Can Be Your Hero's Avatar
    Hi so I've had the iPhone 12 Pro Max for over a week now and while I like it a couple things are kind of irking/confusing me.

    For some reason when I open the camera and tap on 2.5x, I've noticed that the camera doesn't actually engage the telephoto lens. It just used the main f1.6 lens and just digitally crops in, which leads to a pretty low quality shot.

    I've tested this also by opening the camera, putting my finger over the telephoto lens, switching to 2.5x and then taking a photo - it didn't swap the lens at all. Only when you zoom further than 2.5x does the telephoto camera engage.

    Just want to know if this is a fault or working as intended? Because my previous Android phone (Pixel) I'm finding takes substantially better photos than the 12 Pro Max in just about every condition, especially with zoom.
    11-27-2020 10:29 PM
  2. popkurn611's Avatar
    Hi so I've had the iPhone 12 Pro Max for over a week now and while I like it a couple things are kind of irking/confusing me.

    For some reason when I open the camera and tap on 2.5x, I've noticed that the camera doesn't actually engage the telephoto lens. It just used the main f1.6 lens and just digitally crops in, which leads to a pretty low quality shot.

    I've tested this also by opening the camera, putting my finger over the telephoto lens, switching to 2.5x and then taking a photo - it didn't swap the lens at all. Only when you zoom further than 2.5x does the telephoto camera engage.

    Just want to know if this is a fault or working as intended? Because my previous Android phone (Pixel) I'm finding takes substantially better photos than the 12 Pro Max in just about every condition, especially with zoom.
    This in not a fault, this is how Apple misleads you with a telephoto lens. In certain lighting condition, when you click on that 2.5x it indeed is not using the optical zoom...it defaults to the primary wide angle and crops in like you said. Most people are getting the pro models for that 3rd lens, when in fact it isn’t even really being used when intended.

    If you watch any tech videos on YouTube, Tailosive Tech (Drew) speaks about this on multiple occasions in his iPhone 12 videos. Here is a link to one. You can fast forward to 13:06 to hear him talk about it. Pretty lame by Apple if you ask me!

    11-27-2020 10:57 PM
  3. I Can Be Your Hero's Avatar
    This in not a fault, this is how Apple misleads you with a telephoto lens. In certain lighting condition, when you click on that 2.5x it indeed is not using the optical zoom...it defaults to the primary wide angle and crops in like you said. Most people are getting the pro models for that 3rd lens, when in fact it isn’t even really being used when intended.

    If you watch any tech videos on YouTube, Tailosive Tech (Drew) speaks about this on multiple occasions in his iPhone 12 videos. Here is a link to one. You can fast forward to 13:06 to hear him talk about it. Pretty lame by Apple if you ask me!

    That's very disappointing and imo very misleading by Apple.

    Apple have put in a 2.5x telephoto lens on the camera, but when you tap on the 2.5x button, it often doesn't use the lens. I was under the assumption that when I press 2.5x, it would use the optical zoom every time rather than the digital. I guess that's why I'm getting images like this from the camera:

    I’m noticing the 2.5x photo isn’t using the telephoto lens.-ynaqgi3.jpg

    That was a very poor 2.5x zoom image from my iPhone 12 Pro Max. It used the main lens and just digitally cropped in.

    That is quite disappointing to hear to be honest. I get that when framing the shot, the phone thinks it'll take a better image using the main sensor and just cropping in, but the results from my usage have been quite bad. I'm having a hard time because I've come from a Pixel phone which takes outstanding photos and the camera on the iPhone 12 Pro Max is the one aspect of the phone that I'm not satisfied with. Seems to consistently take worse shots and now it doesn't always use the optical lens despite it being advertised with one and the option to zoom to 2.5x would imply it's engaging the telephoto lens. Is there a way to force the camera to use the 2.5x telephoto lens?

    For comparison, this is what I got from my Pixel phone using 2x zoom:

    I’m noticing the 2.5x photo isn’t using the telephoto lens.-ldutjpm.jpg

    A much, much better shot. Can actually see the details on the spider. It's not a blurry mess.
    Last edited by I Can Be Your Hero; 11-27-2020 at 11:54 PM.
    C6TX6 likes this.
    11-27-2020 11:23 PM
  4. C6TX6's Avatar
    I wish the stock camera app had a pro mode like Samsung.
    There are pro camera apps available, however.

    IIRC this has always been the way (Apple) has been since they went multi lens.
    Due to the smaller aperture used in the "telephoto" lens, in darker environments they use the wider lens and crop.
    At this point, you're better off shooting with the wide and doing what you need in post.
    But it shouldn't have to be that way!
    Sure the smaller aperture is going to need a longer shutter speed or higher iso (combination of both) to maintain exposure needed.
    Give us the ability to use that lens along with RAW so the users that know what they're doing can apply their own post. Pictures would come out looking far better for sure.
    I Can Be Your Hero likes this.
    11-28-2020 03:54 AM
  5. popkurn611's Avatar
    That's very disappointing and imo very misleading by Apple.

    Apple have put in a 2.5x telephoto lens on the camera, but when you tap on the 2.5x button, it often doesn't use the lens. I was under the assumption that when I press 2.5x, it would use the optical zoom every time rather than the digital. I guess that's why I'm getting images like this from the camera:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    That was a very poor 2.5x zoom image from my iPhone 12 Pro Max. It used the main lens and just digitally cropped in.

    That is quite disappointing to hear to be honest. I get that when framing the shot, the phone thinks it'll take a better image using the main sensor and just cropping in, but the results from my usage have been quite bad. I'm having a hard time because I've come from a Pixel phone which takes outstanding photos and the camera on the iPhone 12 Pro Max is the one aspect of the phone that I'm not satisfied with. Seems to consistently take worse shots and now it doesn't always use the optical lens despite it being advertised with one and the option to zoom to 2.5x would imply it's engaging the telephoto lens. Is there a way to force the camera to use the 2.5x telephoto lens?

    For comparison, this is what I got from my Pixel phone using 2x zoom:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    A much, much better shot. Can actually see the details on the spider. It's not a blurry mess.
    I totally agree with everything you are saying and Apple made this huge hype how the 12 pro max cameras are even better than the 12 pro (non max) camera, which is retrospect I have yet to see side by side comparisons that make me say wow I need the max model. In normal day to day and point to shoot usage, the updates are minor.

    I had an 11 pro and bought the 12 pro, but quickly realized that the regular 12 model this year is the best bang for my buck. I only saved about $150 but that $150 for a telephoto lens that doesn’t even really get used most of the time and stainless steel edges along with the gimmick of Lidar left little to be desired for me this year. I’m perfectly happy and content with the two cameras on the 12 and if I need to, I just digitally zoom with my main lens which usually results in an almost identical image as my 11 pro telephoto shot. Apple will never tell you any of this though!

    The pixel in my opinion has the best cameras, but video on the iPhones are amazing.
    I Can Be Your Hero likes this.
    11-28-2020 07:47 AM
  6. I Can Be Your Hero's Avatar
    I had an 11 pro and bought the 12 pro, but quickly realized that the regular 12 model this year is the best bang for my buck. I only saved about $150 but that $150 for a telephoto lens that doesn’t even really get used most of the time and stainless steel edges along with the gimmick of Lidar left little to be desired for me this year. I’m perfectly happy and content with the two cameras on the 12 and if I need to, I just digitally zoom with my main lens which usually results in an almost identical image as my 11 pro telephoto shot. Apple will never tell you any of this though!

    The pixel in my opinion has the best cameras, but video on the iPhones are amazing.
    I think you're right here. Seems like the best bang-for-buck model is the iPhone 12. You get the wide and ultra-wide lenses and when you zoom on the Pro models, it uses the regular wide lens anyway, so you're getting the same result as the 12 non-Pro. I'm still in the return window, so I might just return the Pro Max and move to the 12 as well.

    And agree with you that the iPhone takes better video than the Pixels. I'm very happy with the video I get from the phone, albeit I don't video much. But I do a lot of photography and I'm not finding the iPhone 12 Pro Max to be better than the Pixel at all. Other than that though, the iPhone is such a nice phone from a hardware/design perspective. I love the design of it. I've just come from 10 years of android phones so I'm still getting used to iOS, but it's a nice OS - with a few quirks heh.

    I might try a bunch of camera apps and see if there's one that can force the telephoto lens. Maybe I'll find something I'll like.
    11-28-2020 08:09 AM
  7. popkurn611's Avatar
    I think you're right here. Seems like the best bang-for-buck model is the iPhone 12. You get the wide and ultra-wide lenses and when you zoom on the Pro models, it uses the regular wide lens anyway, so you're getting the same result as the 12 non-Pro. I'm still in the return window, so I might just return the Pro Max and move to the 12 as well.

    And agree with you that the iPhone takes better video than the Pixels. I'm very happy with the video I get from the phone, albeit I don't video much. But I do a lot of photography and I'm not finding the iPhone 12 Pro Max to be better than the Pixel at all. Other than that though, the iPhone is such a nice phone from a hardware/design perspective. I love the design of it. I've just come from 10 years of android phones so I'm still getting used to iOS, but it's a nice OS - with a few quirks heh.

    I might try a bunch of camera apps and see if there's one that can force the telephoto lens. Maybe I'll find something I'll like.
    From what I’ve heard, the app called Halide works well with iOS. I like using all stock as I’m sure you do coming from a pixel. I have seen you over on the Android central forums for years as I have always tried to get immersed into the google pixel ecosystem and I was never able to stick with it. The iOS ecosystem is just unmatched at this point. Apple has amazing support, and everything they offer works in conjunction with each other so smoothly. The biggest drawback with pixels for me were the lack of brightness on the displays which they still can’t seem to get a hold of and video recording is just no where near the quality of iPhones.

    I picked up a pixel 5 last week because I needed to get it out of my system that I probably wouldn’t keep it, and I am returning it after using it for a couple of days haha. Like you said in the AC forums, it is not a premium feeling device. I feel like I’m holding my toddlers fisher price phone at times. I also could not even notice the 90hz refresh rate because iOS’ 60hz is just so freakin smooth.

    I also think the telephoto on the p4 models was way better than the ultra wide they moved to now. It my everyday use, I zoom in way more than I zoom out. I have two younger kids and find myself not being close enough to them in that moment, I can just zoom in and get the better shot. Ultra wide for me is really only used for scenic landscape shots which I rarely take.

    I definitely think you should try the 12. It may surprise you. Apple finally cut down on the weight with this model and it is so much more comfortable to use. The pro models are just too heavy...yes they feel premium with that heft but get tiring at times for me. The 12 is lighter, but not pixel 5 light. Not sure if you are into cases but the new Apple silicone cases paired with the 12 are really nice.
    I Can Be Your Hero likes this.
    11-28-2020 08:23 AM
  8. C6TX6's Avatar
    The 12 Pro Max camera's larger sensor is demonstrably superior to the 12 Pro. Problem is for 90% of the users, they won't be able to tell!
    Long exposure times (ex. astrophotography) will make this quite clear. For the majority of snaps, they aren't much different.
    11-28-2020 09:10 AM
  9. I Can Be Your Hero's Avatar
    From what I’ve heard, the app called Halide works well with iOS. I like using all stock as I’m sure you do coming from a pixel. I have seen you over on the Android central forums for years as I have always tried to get immersed into the google pixel ecosystem and I was never able to stick with it. The iOS ecosystem is just unmatched at this point. Apple has amazing support, and everything they offer works in conjunction with each other so smoothly. The biggest drawback with pixels for me were the lack of brightness on the displays which they still can’t seem to get a hold of and video recording is just no where near the quality of iPhones.

    I picked up a pixel 5 last week because I needed to get it out of my system that I probably wouldn’t keep it, and I am returning it after using it for a couple of days haha. Like you said in the AC forums, it is not a premium feeling device. I feel like I’m holding my toddlers fisher price phone at times. I also could not even notice the 90hz refresh rate because iOS’ 60hz is just so freakin smooth.

    I also think the telephoto on the p4 models was way better than the ultra wide they moved to now. It my everyday use, I zoom in way more than I zoom out. I have two younger kids and find myself not being close enough to them in that moment, I can just zoom in and get the better shot. Ultra wide for me is really only used for scenic landscape shots which I rarely take.

    I definitely think you should try the 12. It may surprise you. Apple finally cut down on the weight with this model and it is so much more comfortable to use. The pro models are just too heavy...yes they feel premium with that heft but get tiring at times for me. The 12 is lighter, but not pixel 5 light. Not sure if you are into cases but the new Apple silicone cases paired with the 12 are really nice.
    Thanks mate - I'll check out Halide.

    Definitely see what you're saying with the ecosystem. I have the Apple Watch and Air Pods Pro. The phone is the gateway to a bunch of other products and they work so well and seamlessly together. Something that is not paralleled on Android. There are some individually good products, but nothing cohesive like with Apple.

    I'm kinda like you but in the opposite direction. I like the iPhone a lot but finding myself finding the Pixel more convenient. Assistant is more useful to me than Siri, the recorder app I use a lot and is excellent on the Pixel. I do prefer the Pixel UI, notifications system and a bunch of other small things. Totally agree that the Pixel 5 feels like a cheap toy, doesn't feel good and I felt they cut way too many corners to charge US $700 for the phone. It's not worth what they're charging and I hope they go back to making premium devices (especially an XL model) next year. I also agree with you that even though the 12 Pro doesn't have a 90hz or 120hz screen, the way iOS animates and scrolls, it's not a big deal. I notice the difference between 60hz and 90hz immediately on android, but not so much on iOS.

    And yeah I think I'll try the regular 12. Has an AMOLED screen, an easier to use size and similar cameras to the 12 Pro.
    11-28-2020 09:16 AM
  10. popkurn611's Avatar
    Thanks mate - I'll check out Halide.

    Definitely see what you're saying with the ecosystem. I have the Apple Watch and Air Pods Pro. The phone is the gateway to a bunch of other products and they work so well and seamlessly together. Something that is not paralleled on Android. There are some individually good products, but nothing cohesive like with Apple.

    I'm kinda like you but in the opposite direction. I like the iPhone a lot but finding myself finding the Pixel more convenient. Assistant is more useful to me than Siri, the recorder app I use a lot and is excellent on the Pixel. I do prefer the Pixel UI, notifications system and a bunch of other small things. Totally agree that the Pixel 5 feels like a cheap toy, doesn't feel good and I felt they cut way too many corners to charge US $700 for the phone. It's not worth what they're charging and I hope they go back to making premium devices (especially an XL model) next year. I also agree with you that even though the 12 Pro doesn't have a 90hz or 120hz screen, the way iOS animates and scrolls, it's not a big deal. I notice the difference between 60hz and 90hz immediately on android, but not so much on iOS.

    And yeah I think I'll try the regular 12. Has an AMOLED screen, an easier to use size and similar cameras to the 12 Pro.
    Notifications have and will always be better on Android. That is a given fact! But, what I have noticed being an iOS user for so long that there are SO MANY more notifications that alert me on Android devices, specifically the pixel with its google integration. Like for example, with Amazon, I get an alert that my order was delivered on my iPhone. That is pretty much it. On the pixel, I get your order is out for delivery, you can track your delivery now!, your order is now 5 stops away! and finally, your order has been delivered. I feel like I am glued to my iPhone enough as it is and on the pixel as well as other Android devices I am just bothered by notifications that much more. Yes, they can be fine tuned and adjusted with settings but to sit and do that is quite tedious and I just can’t be bothered with that.

    So to your point, yes the way Android handles the notifications is better. The status bar at the top is super nice to see, but I’ll go back to what I said before....if it is staring at me I am going to get the urge to check it! Not having that on the iPhone keeps me a little more less attentive which is good for me. It’s on my Lock Screen and if I so happen to look at my Lock Screen then that notification will be my reminder. I don’t need it in multiple spots.

    Just food for thought since you are on the Android side migrating to iOS. Even the pixel being as simplistic as it is, the iPhone is even more simplistic. You will notice the shortcomings but I think they are good ones in the end if you can get used to them.

    Let me know when you get the 12! I really want to hear your thoughts.
    11-28-2020 09:28 AM
  11. popkurn611's Avatar
    The 12 Pro Max camera's larger sensor is demonstrably superior to the 12 Pro. Problem is for 90% of the users, they won't be able to tell!
    Long exposure times (ex. astrophotography) will make this quite clear. For the majority of snaps, they aren't much different.
    There is no doubt the Max model cameras are superior, but the question is how superior? Not superior enough IMO. Like you said 90% of users can’t tell. Even if you can tell, it is just so marginal. I never took pictures of the stars with my phones so to me that is just not a big enough feature to charge me for. You can still get a nice Astro shot on the iPhone 11 series and 12 series on a tripod with the long exposure set.
    11-28-2020 09:30 AM
  12. imwjl's Avatar
    This stuff doesn't bother me at all. In quite a few circumstances I find the new zoom capabilities superior, same for higher spec mid camera. I have some third party apps and an experiment with Halide gave me the impression it uses each camera. With it a night time test of the 2.5x camera got me a less processed photo than the stock camera.

    I got the Halide/Spectre bundle for Spectre when my XS Max had less low light capability. At that point I was more prone to use ProCam also good. I'm sure there will be if not already some best third party apps for the cameras. I view them just like I have a SLR system with specialty lenses and flash units.

    Maybe this goes on for many people. Smart phones are mature now. For many a generation change isn't much. For me this change got 5G and camera upgrades that do make a difference. Display quality and speed are frosting on the cake. Maybe by job and hobby interests are part of it. The 12 Pro Max is great for being an IT director, photo hobbyist, and my adventure sports.
    11-28-2020 10:53 AM
  13. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    I think you're right here. Seems like the best bang-for-buck model is the iPhone 12.
    This is absolutely true. The Max model (which I own) is primarily for anyone who is looking for either the biggest display and/or better low-light photography performance. After reading through Hallide’s Pro Max review I started going through my low-light shots that I took on a 12 Pro for the 3 weeks I used one before I got the Pro Max and was able to see the differences highlighted in this review.

    I’m not saying they are differences that I notice at a glance, but now I can’t unsee some of the blurriness in some photos now that I’ve seen what the differences can be.

    All in all, if you don’t care that much about those small differences then yes, the 12 is the best bang foe your buck.

    https://blog.halide.cam/the-iphone-1...y-267ad4ac94e2
    11-28-2020 11:43 AM
  14. imwjl's Avatar
    This is absolutely true. The Max model (which I own) is primarily for anyone who is looking for either the biggest display and/or better low-light photography performance. After reading through Hallide’s Pro Max review I started going through my low-light shots that I took on a 12 Pro for the 3 weeks I used one before I got the Pro Max and was able to see the differences highlighted in this review.

    I’m not saying they are differences that I notice at a glance, but now I can’t unsee some of the blurriness in some photos now that I’ve seen what the differences can be.

    All in all, if you don’t care that much about those small differences then yes, the 12 is the best bang foe your buck.

    https://blog.halide.cam/the-iphone-1...y-267ad4ac94e2
    With some time I also noticed the Max gets detail that's often blown out when there's a lot of light and dark in same photo. $100 for the camera, battery life and superior reading tool was a no brainer here.

    My brother who also does IT work is rethinking his 11 Pro purchase for both Max size, camera advantages and 5G.
    11-28-2020 12:14 PM
  15. Mr Segundus's Avatar
    I totally agree with everything you are saying and Apple made this huge hype how the 12 pro max cameras are even better than the 12 pro (non max) camera, which is retrospect I have yet to see side by side comparisons that make me say wow I need the max model. In normal day to day and point to shoot usage, the updates are minor.
    MKBHD said that exact same thing in his review of the 12 Pro Max. He said don't get the 12 Pro Max vs the other iPhone 12 models for the camera since there isn't any difference between the cameras on the 12 Pro and the 12 Pro Max in real world usage. He said the only reason to get the 12 Pro Max is for the bigger display and bigger battery. But at the end of his review, he said the 12 Pro is a better buy.
    11-29-2020 09:55 AM
  16. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    MKBHD said that exact same thing in his review of the 12 Pro Max. He said don't get the 12 Pro Max vs the other iPhone 12 models for the camera since there isn't any difference between the cameras on the 12 Pro and the 12 Pro Max in real world usage.
    I take his opinion's on smartphone cameras with a grain of salt at this point.
    11-29-2020 10:10 AM
  17. popkurn611's Avatar
    MKBHD said that exact same thing in his review of the 12 Pro Max. He said don't get the 12 Pro Max vs the other iPhone 12 models for the camera since there isn't any difference between the cameras on the 12 Pro and the 12 Pro Max in real world usage. He said the only reason to get the 12 Pro Max is for the bigger display and bigger battery. But at the end of his review, he said the 12 Pro is a better buy.
    If the max model this year actually gained some sort of multitasking with that even larger screen then that would make sense for people to buy it, along with the battery life. Apple has a 6.7” monster display with absolutely zero multitasking features over all the other models. Plus the fact that it has the same exact grid space layout as an iPhone 12 mini. WASTED SPACE
    Mr Segundus and St_Deborah like this.
    11-29-2020 10:12 AM
  18. strikeIII's Avatar
    Yeah I was under the impression that telephoto lens wouldn't be used poor lighting conditions but it still not being used even in bright outdoor situations. It's not consistent as I can keep my finger on the telephoto lens and when I switch to 2.5 it still uses the main sensor but while still covering the tele lens if I close and reopen the camera app and switch again to 2.5 then it'll try to use the tele lens. Kinda bizarre on how it behaves and maybe it's bug. BTW, I'm also running iOS 14.3 beta so that can be a factor as well.
    11-29-2020 12:46 PM
  19. Mr Segundus's Avatar
    If the max model this year actually gained some sort of multitasking with that even larger screen then that would make sense for people to buy it, along with the battery life. Apple has a 6.7” monster display with absolutely zero multitasking features over all the other models. Plus the fact that it has the same exact grid space layout as an iPhone 12 mini. WASTED SPACE
    I agree. If the Max model had split screen multitasking (the iPad does--not sure why the Max phone doesn't), then I would've easily bought it.
    popkurn611 likes this.
    11-30-2020 08:59 AM
  20. Mr Segundus's Avatar
    I take his opinion's on smartphone cameras with a grain of salt at this point.
    He wasn't the only one who said that.
    St_Deborah likes this.
    11-30-2020 08:59 AM
  21. imwjl's Avatar
    He wasn't the only one who said that.
    I waded into the YouTube mess of "experts" looking for case info but caught lots of garbage reviews. Few did the decent sort of analysis the way ARS Technica often does for one example. They're mostly about getting your attention for their ad and sponsor revenue.

    It's not always, but at this point I've had several times when the Max doesn't go into the highly processed low light mode. Third part apps give you control of the cameras and files that can show a difference. A family hike aiming cameras across a bay showed 2.5 vs 2x zoom is a meaningful upgrade.

    The differences might not be important to everyone but they exist. Holding the 6.7 next to 6.1 phones, 2.5 zoom and battery life make the Max a bargain and worth carrying for lots of people.
    BreakingKayfabe likes this.
    11-30-2020 10:47 AM
  22. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    He wasn't the only one who said that.
    The ones who said this were the same ones as himself who have state of the art studio lighting and barely test low-light in the real world.
    11-30-2020 11:27 AM
  23. I Can Be Your Hero's Avatar
    The differences might not be important to everyone but they exist. Holding the 6.7 next to 6.1 phones, 2.5 zoom and battery life make the Max a bargain and worth carrying for lots of people.
    I'll give you better battery life but I have yet to see my 12PM use the telephoto lens at all when zooming 2.5x. it's really frustrating me and I've tried a few apps now and nothing seems to trigger the correct lens.

    I really think I just need to return it and move to the regular 12. Photos will be pretty much the same anyway.
    12-01-2020 09:00 AM
  24. popkurn611's Avatar
    I'll give you better battery life but I have yet to see my 12PM use the telephoto lens at all when zooming 2.5x. it's really frustrating me and I've tried a few apps now and nothing seems to trigger the correct lens.

    I really think I just need to return it and move to the regular 12. Photos will be pretty much the same anyway.
    So, I’m curious to hear if you made any moves yet.
    12-06-2020 09:44 PM
  25. I Can Be Your Hero's Avatar
    So, I’m curious to hear if you made any moves yet.
    I did! I purchased the iPhone 12 in black. Just got it yesterday.

    It seems like it's 95% of the phone the 12PM is, just a bit smaller, but otherwise, it's pretty much identical. Camera from what I can tell is equal to the 12PM, honestly can't tell a difference between the main and ultra-wide cameras. Maybe in low light the differences will be more apparent.

    Telephoto isn't a big deal in the iPhone. Per this thread, the 2.5x telephoto lens doesn't seem to engage much anyway, so no big loss there.

    TBH I'm still struggling with small things that I was used to on Android, and I honestly don't feel the iPhone takes images as good as the Pixel. But the iPhone 12 so far seems to be the best bang for buck iPhone 12 model at the moment. I don't think the 12PM is worth it, especially when the 12 is so good and is 95% of the phone for 70% of the cost.
    Mr Segundus likes this.
    12-12-2020 07:00 AM
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