1. netnative's Avatar
    On November 12th I ordered an iPad mini with Retina display from Apple. Soon thereafter I began reading reports that its display has a narrower color gamut than the iPad Air and that some units are showing image-retention. This is the image-retention test page made by Marco Arment, the creator of Instapaper: Retina MBP (rMBP) image-retention test. I tried it on my first-generation iPad and was surprised to discover that it exhibits the image-retention issue. I would not have noticed if it was not for the test. And yet, after paying $829 for an iPad mini, I am not happy about purchasing a product with a lesser display --meaning a display with a narrow color gamut that is prone to image-retention. Since the first rumors that Apple was working on an iPad mini surfaced in February 2011, I have been holding-out on replacing my primitive iPad. When it was finally released without a Retina display on November 2012 I was disappointed and continued to wait. Should I return the iPad mini that has already shipped and wait until 2014 when Apple releases one with a better display? I do not like the larger 10-inch form-factor. What are your thoughts on this?
    11-19-2013 10:32 AM
  2. Fausty82's Avatar
    My thoughts on this?

    I bought my retina Mini and am happy with it. I don’t use it while comparing my screen constantly to the various metrics published on the web. I ran the image retention text on Marco Arment's web page, and didn’t see anything on my device that concerned me. Every screen has some level of image retention, but mine cleared in less than a second or two... as far as the "narrow color gamut", I don’t see that as an issue either. Mine is fine. The retina screen is nicer that I expected it to be, and I am happy with how I spent my money. If you have issues with your retina iPad Mini, or are simply not happy with it, return it.

    IMHO, sometimes I think all these "reports" on the Internet are doing us a huge disservice - I think that it’s funny that everything is fine until we read that someone else has a problem or "thinks" they have a problem... then suddenly their previously problem-free device is the worst device ever manufactured. I get the fact that we paid hard earned cash for these devices and want them to be as good as possible... but if you didn’t notice a problem until after you read an online report, WTF?

    [/Rant over]
    PatrickNSF and nikkisharif like this.
    11-19-2013 10:49 AM
  3. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    I ran the test and found image retention. I FOUND it because I was LOOKING for it.
    Last edited by Heisenberg; 11-19-2013 at 06:26 PM.
    Fausty82 and nikkisharif like this.
    11-19-2013 02:23 PM
  4. cardfan's Avatar
    I got the issues too. I haven't decided if I'm keeping the 829 version. I may downgrade it (such as going to the wifi version) not wanting to splurge on something that yet has some compromises . Or I may try an Air again. And something affecting both is still a very buggy iOS 7. I had my retina Mini freeze for like 30 seconds in safari (on iMore's site). This wasn't restored but fresh iOS 7. The home button didn't work, just frozen.
    11-19-2013 03:02 PM
  5. pgood4's Avatar
    I personally feel my retina mini is the best tablet I've owned. The color gamut may not be as broad as some, but I'm not doing major photo editing that requires a calibrated display, for that I'll use my desktop. As far as retention, the steps to recreate it had me keeping a black and white static image on the screen for 10 minutes! My personal usage profile never has a static image for 10 minutes so for me this is not an issue. I did run the test for a couple of minutes and I did not have any image retention. I will say if the retention happened after a minute or two I might feel differently, but for my usage it's fine and the sharpness is just phenomenal.
    nikkisharif likes this.
    11-19-2013 05:44 PM
  6. PatrickNSF's Avatar
    I may downgrade it (such as going to the wifi version) not wanting to splurge on something that yet has some compromises .
    That makes sense to me. I did that last year with the 1st gen mini, opting for 16GB w/ LTE, since I knew I'd upgrade to a Retina one if offered this year. This year I intended to buy a 32GB LTE, but ended up with a 64GB LTE as that was all I could find when I wanted it. Though my rMini doesn't have the image-retention issue, I'd be happier with a $629 investment in a tablet as opposed to a $729 investment, since this is just a supplement to my rMBP and not a laptop replacement for me.
    11-19-2013 05:51 PM
  7. Garz's Avatar
    Mine has it too. Not a deal breaker like the color issue though in my opinion. I agree, you have to look for this issue.
    11-19-2013 06:28 PM
  8. nikkisharif's Avatar
    My thoughts on this?

    I bought my retina Mini and am happy with it. I don’t use it while comparing my screen constantly to the various metrics published on the web. I ran the image retention text on Marco Arment's web page, and didn’t see anything on my device that concerned me. Every screen has some level of image retention, but mine cleared in less than a second or two... as far as the "narrow color gamut", I don’t see that as an issue either. Mine is fine. The retina screen is nicer that I expected it to be, and I am happy with how I spent my money. If you have issues with your retina iPad Mini, or are simply not happy with it, return it.

    IMHO, sometimes I think all these "reports" on the Internet are doing us a huge disservice - I think that it’s funny that everything is fine until we read that someone else has a problem or "thinks" they have a problem... then suddenly their previously problem-free device is the worst device ever manufactured. I get the fact that we paid hard earned cash for these devices and want them to be as good as possible... but if you didn’t notice a problem until after you read an online report, WTF?

    [/Rant over]
    I couldn't have said it better. My rMini was great before and after reading all these articles and blogs, its still great!!! I'm not using it at the same time as I'm using my iPad 3 or Air so color gamut isn't an issue and even after I ran the test, I have no image retention on any of my devices. I'm totally content with my purchase
    Fausty82 and Rocket_Girl like this.
    11-19-2013 09:31 PM
  9. fluppyboy's Avatar
    My original iPad mini has retention. Didn't know about it till I ran the test today. And you know what? It won't stop me from buying the iPad mini with Retina. The simple fact is, most displays will have some retention, especially if you leave the grid image up for 10 minutes, like suggested in the instructions.

    I wasn't even aware that my iPad mini had "problems" until I went looking for them. Ergo, I didn't have any problems with my iPad mini before today. (And I don't have any problems with it now. In normal use I do not see any image retention at all. None!)

    To turn this around: Have any iPad Air owners run the same test? Does the iPad Air exhibit image retention after running the test for the full 10 minutes? I'll bet there will be some retention, even if just brief.
    nikkisharif likes this.
    11-20-2013 02:11 AM
  10. nj1266's Avatar
    Who in there right mind would leave their screen on for 10 minutes on an image of a checkered flag. Are you freaking kidding me? Have human critical skills sunk so badly that they cannot see how highly unlikely anyone will do this on a day-to-day basis!!

    I understand the color gamut issue. We all want excellent color accuracy from our iPads. But I do not use my iPad for photo editing or photography. I got it with one aim in mind: a portable tablet that I can hold and lecture from while I walk in the classroom. I can also edit my lectures on the fly while lecturing. To me the resolution of the screen was far more important than the color accuracy. The screen is amazingly sharp and I can read with it just fine. The original iPad mini screen was just bad.

    Another issue I cared about was not having to worry about touch screen issues or GPS issues or apps that are not available or apps that are for a phone but are stretched to work on a tablet. I wanted a tablet that works right out of the box.

    I also wanted prompt updates should there be any issues with the OS.

    I thought about getting the Nexus 7 but reconsidered after reading about all the issues people are having with it. Then I discovered that the 7 is not even available on Verizon.


    Sent from my 64 gig Retina IPad Mini
    nikkisharif likes this.
    11-20-2013 04:00 AM
  11. netnative's Avatar
    11-20-2013 05:56 AM
  12. netnative's Avatar
    11-20-2013 07:33 AM
  13. Fausty82's Avatar
    If you want to see the problem, I guaranteed that you will find a way.

    IMHO, this thread is a colossal waste of bandwidth.
    nikkisharif likes this.
    11-20-2013 09:32 AM
  14. miscrap's Avatar
    My original iPad mini has retention. Didn't know about it till I ran the test today. And you know what? It won't stop me from buying the iPad mini with Retina. The simple fact is, most displays will have some retention, especially if you leave the grid image up for 10 minutes, like suggested in the instructions.

    I wasn't even aware that my iPad mini had "problems" until I went looking for them. Ergo, I didn't have any problems with my iPad mini before today. (And I don't have any problems with it now. In normal use I do not see any image retention at all. None!)

    To turn this around: Have any iPad Air owners run the same test? Does the iPad Air exhibit image retention after running the test for the full 10 minutes? I'll bet there will be some retention, even if just brief.
    If you stare at the image for 10 minutes you will experience retention issues with your vision. Better return your eyes!
    Rocket_Girl and nikkisharif like this.
    11-20-2013 10:45 AM
  15. netnative's Avatar
    If you want to see the problem, I guaranteed that you will find a way.

    IMHO, this thread is a colossal waste of bandwidth.
    I appreciate that you took the time to share your thoughts about this issue and value your opinion. I am even inclined to agree with you. But I will decide if the iPad mini Retina that I ordered is worth $829 after I use it. Given limited resources there is always an opportunity cost and I might decide that at this time my money is better spent on something else. One consideration is that I might regret the purchase if in March Apple gives the mini the same kind of display the Air now has. In the meantime, the display issues with the iPad mini Retina continue to attract the attention of the media as demonstrated by links that I shared. And I will continue to share them for the benefit of other forum members who have not made their decision.
    11-20-2013 11:02 AM
  16. Fausty82's Avatar
    I appreciate that you took the time to share your thoughts about this issue and value your opinion. I am even inclined to agree with you. But I will decide if the iPad mini Retina that I ordered is worth $829 after I use it. Given limited resources there is always an opportunity cost and I might decide that at this time my money is better spent on something else. One consideration is that I might regret the purchase if in March Apple gives the mini the same kind of display the Air now has. In the meantime, the display issues with the iPad mini Retina continue to attract the attention of the media as demonstrated by links that I shared. And I will continue to share them for the benefit of other forum members who have not made their decision.
    I fully understand your position, and agree to a point. But I have said all along that no device is perfect... and if you look hard enough you will find a flaw... but if you have to read an online blog then spend time searching for the reported "problem", that perhaps it’s not really an issue.
    11-20-2013 11:59 AM
  17. netnative's Avatar
    The more I use my ipad Mini retina, the less I think of these issues that aren't really issues (tested negative on burn in..but I feel like a dope for risking dmg to the screen with that test). The screen is fantastic. I really don't have a problem with it. It's a keeper.
    So there is an actual risk of damage to the display in performing Marco Arment's image-retention test? I thought that the warning was out of caution or a recommendation from Marco Arment's legal counsel.

    By the way, I enjoyed the insightful analysis on the use of the IGZO panel.
    11-20-2013 02:34 PM
  18. warcraftWidow's Avatar
    So there is an actual risk of damage to the display in performing Marco Arment's image-retention test? I thought that the warning was out of caution or a recommendation from Marco Arment's legal counsel.

    By the way, I enjoyed the insightful analysis on the use of the IGZO panel.
    No actual damage that I know of. Just a warning out of an abundance of caution on his part.
    11-20-2013 02:35 PM
  19. fluppyboy's Avatar
    If you stare at the image for 10 minutes you will experience retention issues with your vision. Better return your eyes!
    Absolutely! Expcept then the burn-in will move around as you move your eyes. But definitely do NOT stare at the screen as you run the test, not if you want to be able to see it properly afterwards.
    11-20-2013 06:21 PM
  20. Eileen89's Avatar
    I couldn't have said it better. My rMini was great before and after reading all these articles and blogs, its still great!!! I'm not using it at the same time as I'm using my iPad 3 or Air so color gamut isn't an issue and even after I ran the test, I have no image retention on any of my devices. I'm totally content with my purchase
    It is my understanding from reading up on this issue that not all of the rMini's have this problem. I also read a post where someone with the iPad Air found this problem and needed to have it exchanged. I tested my iPad Air and found no problem at all with this. However, even if I did find that my Air had this problem I don't think I would replace it if everything else on it was otherwise running as it should.
    11-20-2013 06:50 PM
  21. blueness's Avatar
    I received my mini last night, but haven't opened it ... yet.
    While I'm not very concerned about image retention, the lesser gamut is a bit of a let down, especially after a year's anticipation.

    I'm sure next year's mini will include Touch ID (nice, now that I'm used to it on my 5s) and a full sRGB coverage, but is there a point in waiting another year? With an original iPad and iPad 3 in the collection, I'd like the investment in a retina mini to enjoy some longevity before feeling compelled to upgrade.

    While comparing the Air and retina mini displays, I heard someone at Best Buy ask their friend, "Why do you need another? You already have an iPhone, an iPad, an iPod Touch..." I thought, "because this one is 'finally' the Goldilocks iPad we've been waiting for from Apple."

    In comparing the Air and the iPad mini retina, I noticed that the reduced gamut does a lot to make Apple's saccharine iOS 7 icons less toxically saturated and, in a sense, far more appealing. I might stick with this version of the iPad mini for that benefit alone!

    I forgot that I'd like to use my mini to run Sketchbook Pro with an Adonit Jot. In that usage case, I might miss a broader color gamut. Apple. Apple. Apple...
    Last edited by blueness; 11-21-2013 at 01:54 PM.
    11-21-2013 10:50 AM
  22. Rocket_Girl's Avatar
    On November 12th I ordered an iPad mini with Retina display from Apple. Soon thereafter I began reading reports that its display has a narrower color gamut than the iPad Air and that some units are showing image-retention. This is the image-retention test page made by Marco Arment, the creator of Instapaper: Retina MBP (rMBP) image-retention test. I tried it on my first-generation iPad and was surprised to discover that it exhibits the image-retention issue. I would not have noticed if it was not for the test. And yet, after paying $829 for an iPad mini, I am not happy about purchasing a product with a lesser display --meaning a display with a narrow color gamut that is prone to image-retention. Since the first rumors that Apple was working on an iPad mini surfaced in February 2011, I have been holding-out on replacing my primitive iPad. When it was finally released without a Retina display on November 2012 I was disappointed and continued to wait. Should I return the iPad mini that has already shipped and wait until 2014 when Apple releases one with a better display? I do not like the larger 10-inch form-factor. What are your thoughts on this?
    First- 'narrow' color range cracks me up when I recall childhood, with MSDOS in the wide range of: Amber. Or green. On sea of pixelated black.

    Better is quite relative. Will you buy when it seems like "best ever" or when it is loads better than what you've got?

    You could spend days comparing a bunch of images next to each other (on a screen that degrades them both). Or you could try try it --for real-- next to what you just called your "primitive iPad". That is the comparison you will *experience* vs the one you will read about and try to decide on based on images on your primitive iPad. Bit like viewing crystal through wax paper, that.

    Do let us know if you take your iPad to the store, compare it to the mini with retina, and walk away feeling like the mini-R is not good enough:-).
    11-22-2013 05:52 AM
  23. netnative's Avatar
    First- 'narrow' color range cracks me up when I recall childhood, with MSDOS in the wide range of: Amber. Or green. On sea of pixelated black.

    Better is quite relative. Will you buy when it seems like "best ever" or when it is loads better than what you've got?

    You could spend days comparing a bunch of images next to each other (on a screen that degrades them both). Or you could try try it --for real-- next to what you just called your "primitive iPad". That is the comparison you will *experience* vs the one you will read about and try to decide on based on images on your primitive iPad. Bit like viewing crystal through wax paper, that.

    Do let us know if you take your iPad to the store, compare it to the mini with retina, and walk away feeling like the mini-R is not good enough:-).
    Your comment about MS-DOS made me smile; I purchased my first PC in 1984. I compared the displays of the iPad Air and iPad mini Retina side-by-side at Best Buy. Of course, I prefer the bright saturated colors of the iPad Air but decided that it is worth making the compromise for the mini because of its convenient form-factor.
    Rocket_Girl likes this.
    11-22-2013 06:41 AM
  24. netnative's Avatar
    The iPad mini Retina that I ordered (128GB WiFi CELL Gray) arrived yesterday. These are my impressions after an initial inspection.

    The narrow color gamut is not an issue to me. I prefer having the convenience of the minis form factor than the bright saturated colors of the Air.

    After performing Marco Arment's test, I found the display to have image retention. The higher the brightness the more noticeable the image retention was. At 100% brightness the image retention issue was very noticeable. So far, image-retention is not noticeable during normal use. I did not notice yellowing or bleeding. Could not detect any dead pixels. And the brightness of the display was reasonably uniform.

    I will continue to observe how the unit performs, but I am not inclined to keep it for the full length of the usual life-cycle for tablets. I am disappointed. In my view, if Apple did not intend the display to have image-retention, it is a defect even if it is not noticeable during normal use. And who can assure me that image retention will not get worse over time?

    What are my options?


    1. Return it and order a new unit hoping that that it will not have the image-retention issue.
    2. Keep it until the next refresh of the iPad mini at which time I could give it to my child.


    According to the most recent results of the iMore poll, 33.49% of those who voted encountered image-retention with their iPad mini Retina displays. If I return it and reorder right way, my chances of winning the Apple display lottery would not be as high as if I wait until January 7th. By then, Apple might have secured a supply of better displays. Also by January 7th the rumor mill might provide an indication of whether Apple intends to refresh the iPad mini soon. It is rumored that Apple will release a 12.9 iPad together with the iPhone 6 on March 2014. And it is reasonable to anticipate that if Apple releases a new iPad it will equip its iPad line with fingerprint sensors.

    I will make my decision by January 7th.
    11-23-2013 12:22 PM
  25. nj1266's Avatar
    The iPad mini Retina that I ordered (128GB WiFi CELL Gray) arrived yesterday. These are my impressions after an initial inspection.

    The narrow color gamut is not an issue to me. I prefer having the convenience of the minis form factor than the bright saturated colors of the Air.

    After performing Marco Arment's test, I found the display to have image retention. The higher the brightness the more noticeable the image retention was. At 100% brightness the image retention issue was very noticeable. So far, image-retention is not noticeable during normal use. I did not notice yellowing or bleeding. Could not detect any dead pixels. And the brightness of the display was reasonably uniform.

    I will continue to observe how the unit performs, but I am not inclined to keep it for the full length of the usual life-cycle for tablets. I am disappointed. In my view, if Apple did not intend the display to have image-retention, it is a defect even if it is not noticeable during normal use. And who can assure me that image retention will not get worse over time?

    What are my options?


    1. Return it and order a new unit hoping that that it will not have the image-retention issue.
    2. Keep it until the next refresh of the iPad mini at which time I could give it to my child.


    According to the most recent results of the iMore poll, 33.49% of those who voted encountered image-retention with their iPad mini Retina displays. If I return it and reorder right way, my chances of winning the Apple display lottery would not be as high as if I wait until January 7th. By then, Apple might have secured a supply of better displays. Also by January 7th the rumor mill might provide an indication of whether Apple intends to refresh the iPad mini soon. It is rumored that Apple will release a 12.9 iPad together with the iPhone 6 on March 2014. And it is reasonable to anticipate that if Apple releases a new iPad it will equip its iPad line with fingerprint sensors.

    I will make my decision by January 7th.
    Try using this image retention test and tell me your results http://www.mitchmalone.name/retina-test/




    Sent from my 64 gig Retina IPad Mini
    11-24-2013 12:43 AM
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