1. tadpoles's Avatar
    It's quite absurd at the lengths many will go to defend Apple on this issue. I own an iPhone X right now and I refuse to defend Apple on this. Many people were screwed out of millions of dollars (collectively) because none of them were told that all they needed to do was replace the battery in their phone. They were told that the phone itself was the problem and they needed to get a new phone to get a fully functioning device again.
    Yeahps, a corporation doing what corporations do, trying to make more money instead of less. Par for the course.
    Just_Me_D and nikkisharif like this.
    01-19-2018 05:00 PM
  2. Tartarus's Avatar
    It's quite absurd at the lengths many will go to defend Apple on this issue. I own an iPhone X right now and I refuse to defend Apple on this. Many people were screwed out of millions of dollars (collectively) because none of them were told that all they needed to do was replace the battery in their phone. They were told that the phone itself was the problem and they needed to get a new phone to get a fully functioning device again.
    Are we doing this dance again?
    No, people weren’t forced, no people weren’t screwed over.

    People tend to upgrade, regardless of the performance of their phones.
    People tend to upgrade every year or every two years. Some even every three years.

    There are even people using their phones longer than that.

    The negligible few that did upgrade because of this throttling will hardly amount to even 1 or 2 percent.
    nikkisharif likes this.
    01-19-2018 05:05 PM
  3. tadpoles's Avatar
    Apple is almost giving away replacement batteries to make amends. I’m not sure how much more is reasonable to expect. Worse come to worse some bought new phones with newer features than they otherwise might have. Good for them. No one is forced to use an iPhone or to buy one. There are other options. Heck, I’ve seen new phones as low as $30 (ZTE Android hardware). Anything more than the basics is a choice.
    Tartarus and nikkisharif like this.
    01-19-2018 05:26 PM
  4. ItnStln's Avatar
    I think you guys are only focusing on one aspect of the word “forced”. There are varying interpretations of the word. If I want to get to point C, and both path A and path B can get me there, but path B is closed, technically I’m “forced” to take path A. Just because I have the option to forgo my trip doesn’t change the fact that in the context of the situation, I was forced to take one path.

    “4. required by circumstances;”
    Exactly!
    01-19-2018 06:20 PM
  5. ItnStln's Avatar
    I don’t think disputing the transaction is going to get you very far honestly.
    Probably not, but I want to curse them out anyway because I was out of town the last week and they locked my card out.
    01-19-2018 06:21 PM
  6. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Except that people were forced to get a new phone. They were never given the option from Apple Store employees to fix the battery. They either had to deal with a terribly slow phone or get a new one, and since that nobody wants to use a slow device, they were forced to get a new one.
    Nope. That’s a choice they opted to make. Not wanting to choose a slower phone is not ‘forcing’ someone to upgrade. Sure, a majority of the people chose the new phone and even considered it the only “logical” choice. Nonetheless, it was still a choice they themselves made.
    nikkisharif likes this.
    01-19-2018 06:33 PM
  7. ItnStln's Avatar
    I know there are some who love Apple and feel they didn’t (or possibly even couldn’t) do anything as “shady” as let us believe that the only option available was to buy a new phone. I don’t subscribe to that and I don’t believe Apple has any more moral forthrightness than any other tech company with a product to sell.

    Does Apple make more money if we buy new phones as opposed to upgrading batteries? Yes. So that was the option that was often, if not always, presented. Apple would rather you buy a new phone than a new battery.

    Shocker.

    This is not molecular science. They got caught being less than as communicative as they could have been about a less expensive option.

    Shocker.

    That doesn’t change my opinion of them because my opinion was never to place them on an underserved pedestal. I like Apple and I like their products. However, I know that they’re not a church or a charity. There goal is to make money by providing products we often think we need. They do a fine job of that as is evidenced by their valuation.

    They’re no better or worse, to me than, Huawei, LG, Samsung or many others.

    So yes, they may have “forced” (by a low level definition) some to get a new phone. If that bothers some a lot, vote with your wallet and shop elsewhere. Otherwise just realize you’re dealing with a corporation whose position is to make money.
    Well said
    01-19-2018 06:34 PM
  8. ItnStln's Avatar
    For those that just feel grumpy about this how do you think Samsung or LG or others would have handled the whole thing? No exploding phone jokes please.
    I don’t think they’re so unethical they’d intentionally throttle the processor.
    01-19-2018 06:36 PM
  9. Tartarus's Avatar
    I don’t think they’re so unethical they’d intentionally throttle the processor.
    So in your words it’s ethical to allow phones to shut down with 30% or 40% charge left?
    Are those people affected by that not buying new phones?
    01-19-2018 06:44 PM
  10. ItnStln's Avatar
    It had everything to do with the fact, that I WANTED a new phone. The decision was all mine, and I came to it all by myself. It was my own free will.
    By your own admission you “WANTED a new phone” so you got one.

    As for the issue of Force, that is being debated in this thread, I do not think Apple forced anyone to get a new phone. Rather, the issue of a poor battery compelled you to feel the need to get a new phone... perhaps sooner than you normally would have. In all seriousness, wouldn't you have been getting a new phone sooner than later anyway? I ask this because it just seems that most people here on iMore get a new iPhone once every 1 or 2 years.
    By apple hiding their throttling the processors from consumers they did force the customer into a new phone. When the apple employee told me that I needed a new phone and said nothing about a new battery it was force. That phone was used for work and literally all I did on it was make and receive phone calls and the occasional text or email. So no, I wouldn’t have been getting a new phone sooner than later as that phone wasn’t my primary phone. However, on my primary phone I do get a new phone every year but that is beside the point.

    I am sorry for those of you who feel that you were. Either way, it seems that Apple is taking good strides to prevent this type of issue from happening again.
    I don’t feel I was forced into a new phone, I know I was. Having previously been in sales for over ten years I know shady sales tactics when I see it. If apple was transparent about what they were doing I would have accepted it for what it is, forcing consumers to purchase new phones.
    01-19-2018 06:49 PM
  11. ItnStln's Avatar
    It's quite absurd at the lengths many will go to defend Apple on this issue. I own an iPhone X right now and I refuse to defend Apple on this. Many people were screwed out of millions of dollars (collectively) because none of them were told that all they needed to do was replace the battery in their phone. They were told that the phone itself was the problem and they needed to get a new phone to get a fully functioning device again.
    Well said sir! This shady sales tactic by apple is why my X is my last apple phone I will buy. Sadly I’m forced to maintain an iPad due to ForeFlight not being available for any other OS.
    anon(5630457) likes this.
    01-19-2018 06:51 PM
  12. ItnStln's Avatar
    Are we doing this dance again?
    No, people weren’t forced, no people weren’t screwed over.
    This is the funniest thing I’ve read on iMore!
    01-19-2018 06:53 PM
  13. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    It's quite absurd at the lengths many will go to defend Apple on this issue. I own an iPhone X right now and I refuse to defend Apple on this. Many people were screwed out of millions of dollars (collectively) because none of them were told that all they needed to do was replace the battery in their phone. They were told that the phone itself was the problem and they needed to get a new phone to get a fully functioning device again.
    Defending Apple? No no no!

    Challenging the claim of being “forced to upgrade”? Definitely.

    In an earlier post, Quis brought up the definition of forced. Next to the number 4, before it was edited, were the words, “required by circumstances; emergency”. The semicolon in this regard was used to emphasize a relation. In other words, the “circumstances” were in relation to an “emergency.” No one is going to convince me that choosing a newer device, even if it’s a logical choice, is an emergency, and since it’s not an emergency, the choice is not forced. Coerced? Sure!
    Last edited by Just_Me_D; 01-20-2018 at 06:03 AM.
    01-19-2018 07:16 PM
  14. tadpoles's Avatar
    If one feels they were "Forced" to buy a new iPhone (...and as opposed to some other less expensive brand) what were the consequences had you said, "Thank you for your recommendation, but no thank you" left and kept using the iPhone or purchased some other brand? We're they going to steal your money? Not let you leave the store? Blacklist your Apple ID?

    That's where I'm caught up. I don't see how anyone "had" to buy a new iPhone. How anyone was "Forced" to. It still looks to me like some CHOSE to. Perhaps that choice was based on the recommendation of Corporation's employees (whose job it is to help Corporation make money).

    Still, no one said "You have to get a new phone and the only phone you can get is our iPhone. If you don't get our phone you won't be able to communicate and awful things will happen to you."

    In MY mind, had THAT been said one would have been "Forced". It may sound like I'm being silly, that is not my intent. All I can say at this juncture is that it takes some less to feel "Forced" into doing something than others.

    If I tell my son to go to bed or he'll be tired that is NOT the same as forcing him to go to bed.
    Last edited by tadpoles; 01-19-2018 at 08:54 PM.
    Just_Me_D and nikkisharif like this.
    01-19-2018 07:39 PM
  15. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    Defending Apple? No no no!

    Challenging the claim of being “forced to upgrade”? Definitely.

    In an earlier post, Quis brought up the definition of forced. Next to the number 4, before it was edited, were the words, “required by circumstances; emergency”. The semicolon in this regard was used to emphasize a relation. In other words, the “circumstances” was in relation to an “emergency.” No one is going to convince me that choosing a newer device, even if it’s a logical choice, is an emergency, and since it’s not an emergency, the choice is not forced. Coerced? Sure!
    I didn’t even think of it in that sense and it brings our argument about “forced” even further.

    Of course the guy in this thread who claims he was held at gunpoint to upgrade to a new phone at the Apple store is being facetious, but what worries me is that there are millions of people with that “blame it on others” mentality that exist. They’ll make up anything before they blame themselves.
    01-19-2018 08:11 PM
  16. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    I didn’t even think of it in that sense and it brings our argument about “forced” even further.

    Of course the guy in this thread who claims he was held at gunpoint to upgrade to a new phone at the Apple store is being facetious, but what worries me is that there are millions of people with that “blame it on others” mentality that exist. They’ll make up anything before they blame themselves.
    ‘Nuf said...
    01-19-2018 08:40 PM
  17. scruffypig's Avatar
    The technical definition of salesmanship is: “The art and science of human persuasion”. The first principal of salesmanship is: “The customer is king”. The second principal of salesmanship is: “You can’t make anyone buy anything they don’t want”.
    nikkisharif likes this.
    01-19-2018 10:17 PM
  18. nikkisharif's Avatar
    Going back to the original question....I won’t even have my device long enough to care about switching to performance or not. Having options is definitely good, so I like this solution. With that being said, I honestly don’t think people will read this new information nor will most even know what it means to have the choice. A lot of people I talk to don’t even upgrade their devices for fear they’ll mess something up. Apple may have never said they were slowing the processor, but they did say the battery will degrade & it will cause performance issues after so many full charges.....again most people I speak to have no idea that this info was in their user manual. And they don’t know because they don’t want to take responsibility and actually read the information they’re given. Call me anal, but as a consumer I read everything. Being informed and asking questions when issues arise are the best ways to protect yourself. Otherwise you’ll be “forced” to do something you, an adult, don’t want to do lol
    01-20-2018 07:54 AM
  19. Lee_Bo's Avatar
    How about an option for uploading photos or downloading large app updates via LTE if we have an unlimited plan?
    01-20-2018 02:55 PM
  20. Tartarus's Avatar
    How about an option for uploading photos or downloading large app updates via LTE if we have an unlimited plan?
    If you mean syncing over cellular data for iCloud Photo Library, then this is already possible.

    BreakingKayfabe and Lee_Bo like this.
    01-20-2018 03:24 PM
  21. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    If you mean syncing over cellular data for iCloud Photo Library, then this is already possible.

    https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...85165db36c.jpg
    Learned this the hard way a few weeks ago. Took a 13 minute 4K video with an X and hadn't charged my iPhone 7 (second line) in a few days. I have decent speeds in my office and when I plugged it in it must have started the upload of that video. I noticed my office television lagging in streaming PS Vue. I restarted my router not having realized what was going on and my iPhone 7 just kept uploading on LTE. Within a half hour I was down about 4 gigs.
    Just_Me_D likes this.
    01-20-2018 04:43 PM
  22. Lee_Bo's Avatar
    If you mean syncing over cellular data for iCloud Photo Library, then this is already possible.

    https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...85165db36c.jpg
    Whoops. Looks like I missed that. Thanks.
    Tartarus likes this.
    01-20-2018 05:01 PM
  23. ItnStln's Avatar
    The second principal of salesmanship is: “You can’t make anyone buy anything they don’t want”.
    You apparently have never been in sales because if you were you’d know that’s not true. What apple did was force consumers into a new phone by leading them to believe their old phone was the problem, not the battery.
    01-21-2018 06:50 AM
  24. ItnStln's Avatar
    Bottom line. Apple made a change in iOS to slow the CPU’s in aging batteries so the phones didn’t die. I believe this because it’s basic business economics, phones dying before they should is bad for business.
    That’s not the point at all.

    True, they didn’t tell us about it, and true they should have.
    But they didn’t so that’s the problem! At best they used shady sales techniques to sell phones and at worse they forced consumers into a new phone like in my case where I was told I needed a new phone.

    Fact, it probably wasn’t told even to Apple Store employees so that they wouldn’t technically be lying when the only option appeared to be needing a new phone.
    I know it wasn’t disclosed to frontline at&t employees but I have no idea about its disclosure among tech support or upper management. A friend of mine who works for Verizon Wireless wasn’t aware of it until it hit the news. However, I am sure apple disclosed it among their employees.

    I should note that hooking my phone up to at&t’s SmartChk machine didn’t show anything but that’s to be expected. SmartChk is borderline useless and I’ve never had it show an issue with any phone I’ve ever tested.

    This is where that whole being forced to upgrade aspect comes in to play.
    Exactly! By apple not disclosing the throttling to me and after being told by an apple employee that I needed a new phone apple forced me to purchase a new phone. I was never given an option to replace the battery and there was no problem with my battery life before or after I updated iOS. The problem after I updated was the phone slowed down to a crawl and even factory resetting didn’t help. Restarting the phone throughout the day didn’t help either. I hope apple gets their *** handed to them in a lawsuit and I hope the courts make an example.
    01-21-2018 07:05 AM
  25. scruffypig's Avatar
    You apparently have never been in sales because if you were you’d know that’s not true. What apple did was force consumers into a new phone by leading them to believe their old phone was the problem, not the battery.
    Here is a good place for you to start: https://books.google.com/books/about...d=omCaCwAAQBAJ
    01-21-2018 11:11 AM
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