Jailbreaking a Verizon iPhone to Tether With Unlimited Data

bobbob1016

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You're partially correct. The 20Mbps is the aggregate stream. The download cannot exceed the 20Mbps. This isn't changed dependent upon how many connections there are to the phone. The phone cannot exceed the 20Mbps. If Netflix does not use the entire 20Mbps, let's say it uses 10Mbps, then one person streaming Netflix would only use half the available data at that point in time. With two connections, they'd use twice as much data by reaching the 20Mbps download speeds. If there were 3 or more connections, Netflix would either have to drop to a lower quality stream, thus sending less data per connection, or buffer videos. Either way, the download wouldn't exceed 20Mbps. It's simply not possible to exceed the 20Mbps. This is true no matter how many devices you connect to the device. Bandwidth isn't increased. You're sharing the bandwidth you already have. Just a heads up, your first example wasn't accurate. If 20 different devices are seeking the same movie, they'd each send a request. Netflix is connection based. The broadcast you offer wouldn't take place. Instead, each would have their own individual session open that would draw the same data as if they were 20 different videos.

You're partially correct. The 20Mbps is the aggregate stream. The download cannot exceed the 20Mbps. This isn't changed dependent upon how many connections there are to the phone. The phone cannot exceed the 20Mbps. If Netflix does not use the entire 20Mbps, let's say it uses 10Mbps, then one person streaming Netflix would only use half the available data at that point in time. With two connections, they'd use twice as much data by reaching the 20Mbps download speeds. If there were 3 or more connections, Netflix would either have to drop to a lower quality stream, thus sending less data per connection, or buffer videos. Either way, the download wouldn't exceed 20Mbps. It's simply not possible to exceed the 20Mbps. This is true no matter how many devices you connect to the device. Bandwidth isn't increased. You're sharing the bandwidth you already have. Just a heads up, your first example wasn't accurate. If 20 different devices are seeking the same movie, they'd each send a request. Netflix is connection based. The broadcast you offer wouldn't take place. Instead, each would have their own individual session open that would draw the same data as if they were 20 different videos.

As we seem to be using "partial" here:
It seems you only partially read my statement, or maybe my wording was confusing, I never said it would speed it up, at any point. What I meant is 20 cars on a highway create more traffic than 1 truck that is 20 cars long. That's the same thing here. 20 people, going 20 different ways, create more traffic on the switch than one person going one way.

That's twenty times the traffic in the same space. If there's a 50 lane highway, which causes more traffic, and which messes with the other drivers more, a 20 car long truck in one lane, or 20 cars in 20 lanes?
 

natasftw

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As we seem to be using "partial" here:
It seems you only partially read my statement, or maybe my wording was confusing, I never said it would speed it up, at any point. What I meant is 20 cars on a highway create more traffic than 1 truck that is 20 cars long. That's the same thing here. 20 people, going 20 different ways, create more traffic on the switch than one person going one way.

That's twenty times the traffic in the same space. If there's a 50 lane highway, which causes more traffic, and which messes with the other drivers more, a 20 car long truck in one lane, or 20 cars in 20 lanes?

I'm not sure you understand how data works.

Your car analogy only works if the original user was using 1Mbps to begin with. That's a truck 20 times longer than a typical car.

If they were already pushing the max at any point, it's the same as an "oversized load" that's the width of 20 cars. So which creates more "traffic?" Both equally block all 20 lanes.

Either way. That's not a relevant point. We're not discussing the data. We're discussing Mobile Hotspot. If I were one of the unlimited users and paid the additional fee for Mobile Hotspot, would you still view sharing data as theft? If so, it has absolutely nothing to do with the Mobile Hotspot fee. If you don't, then I'm not sure where you're basing your claim of theft on.

I read your entire statement. I just understand telecommunications so I understand how the tunnel works well enough not to believe the 20 car length truck analogy.
 

i7guy

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It's only pointless because you're making terrible analogies. In the case your analogies apply, you're correct. The problem is, they don't.

Let's look at a detailed discussion as using general ideas isn't getting anywhere.

You pay Verizon a fee for data of some amount. There are various ways to use this data.
Verizon offers Mobile Hotspot for a fee to plans that still have unlimited data as an option. We've agreed up until here.

Whew that was tough work getting to a point we agree on anything.

Mobile Hotspot does not add any additional data. It offers and additional service allowing the phone to act similar to a wifi router. It does not use a separate data stream. It uses the data already there. This is where your two analogies fail. In your ez-pass analogy, the driver uses the same roads to get to his destination without paying. This is the same as using Mobile Hotspot. The data, much like the destinations, is there regardless of the means you use to get to your laptop. Your analogy is true if you claim using MyWi is no different than using the access road. In this analogy, the destinations do not change. The only change is the means one uses to get between the two destinations. If you believe using the access road is stealing from the ez-pass, then I can understand why you view MyWi as stealing.

Your bank robbery uses the same exact cash. That's where your analogy fails. That's why I fixed your analogy to include the second bank. MyWi is the second bank. You're not using Mobile Hotspot. The data was already paid for. You cannot use an analogy that double dips on the data fee. You're only able to claim the Mobile Hotspot service.

Verizon: No free tethering for unlimited data plan customers | ZDNet

The above link although a little old, concisely summarizes the issue at hand. You don't like my analogies, that's fine.

Let's give another example using the ideas you've focused your entire argument on. If Verizon were to sign you to a two-year agreement with the T&C including a clause that claimed you were not able to use other cellular providers for 5 years from the end of your contract, would you view it as stealing from Verizon to use AT&T shortly after you cancelled your Verizon contract? That is the same idea as you're offering here. "It's against their T&C to use a competitor so it's stealing."

That provision probably wouldn't be enforceable in a court of law. It's like saying if you buy a Honda, you can't buy a Toyota.
 

natasftw

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The above link although a little old, concisely summarizes the issue at hand. You don't like my analogies, that's fine.

It's not that I don't like them. It's that they don't fit the point you're trying to make. They're fundamentally different. The article you link includes their position: Consumers that tether "may" use more data than others. As such, they want to charge for the data again. THAT is stealing.

The link you showed has them offering Mobile Broadband Connect to enable Mobile Hotspot. In that, they say you're only allowed to use their service.

That provision probably wouldn't be enforceable in a court of law. It's like saying if you buy a Honda, you can't buy a Toyota.

It's a provision of the same type as the one you're quick to defend in Verizon's T&C. You've made it clear you don't care about data usage. You made this clear when you claimed the amount of data wasn't important because the tethering is against the T&C. You don't believe high usage should see an additional charge, but you do believe only Verizon should be able to provide tethering. This is like saying if you use Verizon, you can't buy MyWi.
 

i7guy

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It's not that I don't like them. It's that they don't fit the point you're trying to make. They're fundamentally different. The article you link includes their position: Consumers that tether "may" use more data than others. As such, they want to charge for the data again. THAT is stealing.

The link you showed has them offering Mobile Broadband Connect to enable Mobile Hotspot. In that, they say you're only allowed to use their service.



It's a provision of the same type as the one you're quick to defend in Verizon's T&C. You've made it clear you don't care about data usage. You made this clear when you claimed the amount of data wasn't important because the tethering is against the T&C. You don't believe high usage should see an additional charge, but you do believe only Verizon should be able to provide tethering. This is like saying if you use Verizon, you can't buy MyWi.

Your data plan does not really fit the bill here as you are on family share. Having said that, whether you believe VZW is stealing or not is irrelevant. You, or your parents, signed a customer agreement, and agreed to abide by the terms and conditions at some point in time.

I'm glad you agreed that VZW does in fact make reference to charging a monthly fee for unlimited consumers to tether. Whatever your moral compass is from this point on, I don't care, and whether you feel VZW is stealing FROM YOU or CHARGING YOU TWICE is irrelevant to me.

I've already posted other links, obviously you are not interested in looking at those links. The bottom line is if the fee is circumvented it is stealing. If the masses do this and game the system, we all will be losers.

Over and out.
 

bobbob1016

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I'm not sure you understand how data works.

Your car analogy only works if the original user was using 1Mbps to begin with. That's a truck 20 times longer than a typical car.

If they were already pushing the max at any point, it's the same as an "oversized load" that's the width of 20 cars. So which creates more "traffic?" Both equally block all 20 lanes.

Either way. That's not a relevant point. We're not discussing the data. We're discussing Mobile Hotspot. If I were one of the unlimited users and paid the additional fee for Mobile Hotspot, would you still view sharing data as theft? If so, it has absolutely nothing to do with the Mobile Hotspot fee. If you don't, then I'm not sure where you're basing your claim of theft on.

I read your entire statement. I just understand telecommunications so I understand how the tunnel works well enough not to believe the 20 car length truck analogy.

Maybe I didn't concisely say it, but "One truck that is 20 cars long" presupposes that the one "truck" is 20Mbps, vs 20 "cars" that are 1/20th the length of the truck, or 1Mbps per car. I'm going to avoid being insulting here, but I'm not sure how much understanding is meant by "I just understand telecommunications".

Edit: Just saw this, my bad, stopping "Horse. Dead. Beating. Stop."
 

DayThyme

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Yeah, it is. No minds are going to change... Especially when at least one of those minds think others have lesser grey matter...
Just like people have various levels of physical capabilities, as this thread shows people also have various levels of cognitive capacities. However, some of you are smart enough to get it, and do get it, but can't admit when you are wrong.

In other words, while some here clearly do have lesser grey matter, others are just sore losers and will make ridiculous arguments just to save face.
 

natasftw

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Maybe I didn't concisely say it, but "One truck that is 20 cars long" presupposes that the one "truck" is 20Mbps, vs 20 "cars" that are 1/20th the length of the truck, or 1Mbps per car. I'm going to avoid being insulting here, but I'm not sure how much understanding is meant by "I just understand telecommunications".

Edit: Just saw this, my bad, stopping "Horse. Dead. Beating. Stop."
You can try to be insulting.

The one truck is NOT 20Mbps. It's 1Mbps for 20 seconds. You said it concisely. You didn't say it accurately.

I graduate in May with an EE degree with a focus on wireless communications. I have a pretty solid understanding of telecommunications. The term Mbps means "Megabits per second." If the truck is 20Mbps, it's using the entire width of the tunnel in that given second. If it's 20 length's long but doesn't use any additional bandwidth compared to the "car," it's using 20 seconds worth of the same 1Mbps. If you'd like to insult me for being aware of this, feel free. It won't hurt my feelings any.
 

natasftw

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The bottom line is if the fee is circumvented it is stealing. If the masses do this and game the system, we all will be losers.

Over and out.

The bottom line is you've never once been able to explain this in your own terms without saying "the T&C think so." I'm going to agree with Keith. I've asked you multiple times to explain it and you're unwilling to do so. If you'd like to continue this, you're free to message me.
 

i7guy

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The bottom line is you've never once been able to explain this in your own terms without saying "the T&C think so." I'm going to agree with Keith. I've asked you multiple times to explain it and you're unwilling to do so. If you'd like to continue this, you're free to message me.

I agree with Keith, this topic has run its course. It's been a fun internet exchange, showing most of us have a maturity level of adults, some unfortunately have a maturity age of said shoe size. This voluminous discussion would probably have been a 3 minute discussion face to face.
 

bobbob1016

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You can try to be insulting.

The one truck is NOT 20Mbps. It's 1Mbps for 20 seconds. You said it concisely. You didn't say it accurately.

I graduate in May with an EE degree with a focus on wireless communications. I have a pretty solid understanding of telecommunications. The term Mbps means "Megabits per second." If the truck is 20Mbps, it's using the entire width of the tunnel in that given second. If it's 20 length's long but doesn't use any additional bandwidth compared to the "car," it's using 20 seconds worth of the same 1Mbps. If you'd like to insult me for being aware of this, feel free. It won't hurt my feelings any.

Really, I know I said I'd stop, but 20 Mbps, as you said, is *20 megabits* per *second*, or 20 chicken nuggets per box, not 1 for 20 boxes. If that were the case, wouldn't 1Mbps then further reduce to .1Mbps for 10 seconds or something? Either way, you're creating 20 tunnels to 20 different end points through the one big tunnel. You're making 20 connections ti the same end point or user instead of 1 connection. If you were the only cars on the road sure, but these 20 cars can negatively impact the rest of the drivers on the road, or people on the tower.

I will really ignore this thread now, but I just felt obligated in some way to clarify this, for historians when the thread gets locked.
 

natasftw

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Really, I know I said I'd stop, but 20 Mbps, as you said, is *20 megabits* per *second*, or 20 chicken nuggets per box, not 1 for 20 boxes. If that were the case, wouldn't 1Mbps then further reduce to .1Mbps for 10 seconds or something? Either way, you're creating 20 tunnels to 20 different end points through the one big tunnel. You're making 20 connections ti the same end point or user instead of 1 connection. If you were the only cars on the road sure, but these 20 cars can negatively impact the rest of the drivers on the road, or people on the tower.

I will really ignore this thread now, but I just felt obligated in some way to clarify this, for historians when the thread gets locked.
That didn't offer much clarity. It actually did the opposite. If I understand your nuggets analogy, you're claiming 20 people using the tethering would be similar to the inefficiency of carrying 20 boxes rather than one box. In this explanation, the box is a second because the highway made less sense to you? The highway's width was equivalent of a second in the prior analogy. The length of the highway was the timeline. That's why 20Mbps means 20 lanes wide where 1Mbps for 20 seconds means 20 lengths long. In your new analogy, there is an "infinite" row of nugget boxes. Each box can hold 20 nuggets, which represent 1Mbps each. If that's the intent, here's where it's a bit off:

The phone ultimately has one outgoing data stream. This is the aggregate stream. It's similar to how the router works. It will receive the packet from each of the 20 people using the phone and forward the data out. Packets aren't infinite in size. Whether I pass 20 packets or 20 people pass 1 packet each, the phone would treat it as 20 outgoing packets. The overhead is mostly negligible. The bottle neck will be AT the phone rather than after the phone.

No, it wouldn't reduce to anything. If you're drawing 1Mbps, you're drawing 1Mbps. It won't reduce. If 10 people are collectively drawing 1Mbps, then each are essentially drawing 0.1Mbps, yes. If you were attempting to say each wanted to draw the 20Mbps instantly, then yes each would extend out. But, that has absolutely nothing to do with what you were saying in terms of trucks versus cars. That's simply claiming "more people could potentially use more data." I'm not sure that was ever a debate. He had suggested someone might setup a kiosk. If they did, that wouldn't increase the bandwidth. It creates an unrealistic scenario where people would pay to get less than dialup access where the Verizon customer would be paying ~$100/mo to provide that internet rather than providing the same access by purchasing internet at less than half the cost and installing a wifi router. It was a silly point to begin with. Your argument, using incorrect telecommunications explanations, didn't make it any stronger.

If you'd like to clarify, the same offer I provided i7 applies to you. You're free to send me a message. However, you're better off remaining with the highway analogy or using actual telecommunications terms than trying to create a new analogy. The nuggets were far less clear =/
 

3cit

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For the record, it took me at least thirty minutes to read through all this?
I don't know if it's legal or not.
I don't care.

I finagled my way into a 5s with unlimited data on my out of contract line. The third tweak I downloaded was mywi. I used it today so my kids could watch netflix on a long drive. I will buy it when my trial is over.
I will let you all know what Verizon does with my unlimited data plan.

Because honestly, unfortunately, none of your OPINIONS matter. I say unfortunately because you all have such strong OPINIONS. But like I said, it doesn't matter, until it comes up. When the first American is kicked off of unlimited data for unauthorized tethering, then it will start to matter, and will only then be resolved by someone's OPINION. That person however, will be a judge so it will be more than opinion, it will be fact.
 

DayThyme

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When the first American is kicked off of unlimited data for unauthorized tethering, then it will start to matter, and will only then be resolved by someone's OPINION. That person however, will be a judge so it will be more than opinion, it will be fact.
Well, the class action (which is what it would be) could settle before a judge ruled or if it did get to the point a judge ruled, then it would go through the appellate process and then either cert is denied or the SCOTUS rules on the issue before it would all be over.

However, Verizon isn't ever going to chance it for all of the reasons I indicated in my "opinion". Not gonna happen.
 

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