1. Ipheuria's Avatar
    It's not just the icons, it's the whole OS that is one big cluster****, I'm sorry, but the fanboys can't explain this one for Apple, this pre-school non-design is just bad, nothing wrong with admitting that, it's the truth. The folder icons are horrid, the signal dots are horrid, the dialer is horrid, the plain and confusing whitewashed background in everything now is fugly, non-user friendly, and will NOT work better if not changed come GM.

    iOS was "PERFECT" according to most people here just two weeks ago, now it was old, stale, and needed a complete change, funny how minds change so fast..

    And btw, I loved the look of the iPhone 4 when we got the spy shots, a vocal minority hated, not "everyone". The iPhone 4 was also a beautiful, classy, elegant design, can't say the same for iOS 7.
    There is almost no point to responding to what you have said. According to you "fanboys" will try to explain iOS 7 shortcomings away. The problem is no one is explaining anything away. They are stating their opinion, the problem is you state your opinion as fact. The fact that you think it's a pre-school non-design means anyone that doesn't agree is just "explaining it away". I had no problem saying that I hated the design of the iPhone 4 at first but again you say you didn't as if you are the meter stick of good design. Everyone is welcome to their opinion and my opinion is that many people will love iOS 7. My opinion is that iOS 7 is great and besides a few ugly icons I love the new features it brings to the table. I love not having to check for updates, love the way swipes in applications look, love the way the interface looks with the white or black elements. Sure there are other things that are still missing that I want but maybe they will come in time.
    06-20-2013 09:08 AM
  2. pappy53's Avatar
    Apple is sure making it harder for people with less than perfect eyesight, with light colors and light text. I just don't understand this. A tiny screen AND unreadable text is unacceptable for such people.
    It seems that Apple is becoming smaller and smaller in Android's rearview mirror, and that is a shame, as I really do like iPhones. But I have to go with what I can use. Maybe someday they will come out with a "S4" size screen, and make it easier for a large section of people to use. Here's hoping.
    redbeard likes this.
    06-20-2013 03:32 PM
  3. Fausty82's Avatar
    Apple is sure making it harder for people with less than perfect eyesight, with light colors and light text. I just don't understand this. A tiny screen AND unreadable text is unacceptable for such people.
    It seems that Apple is becoming smaller and smaller in Android's rearview mirror, and that is a shame, as I really do like iPhones. But I have to go with what I can use. Maybe someday they will come out with a "S4" size screen, and make it easier for a large section of people to use. Here's hoping.
    First of all, iOS 7 is nowhere near finished yet...

    And I would argue that Apple is NOT "becoming smaller and smaller in Android's rearview mirror". Apple is still selling lots and lots of products... frankly the only time Android/Samsung makes a move on Apple's position as the leader is in the 6 months or so before Apple releases its new phone.

    There will always be people who aren’t fans or prefer another OS/product over Apple's... and there will always be those who prefer a mini-tablet sized phone, but for the life of me, I couldn’t tell you why. For me and many that I know, the 4" screen is plenty big enough.
    06-20-2013 03:42 PM
  4. Angelo_Campher's Avatar
    Apple is sure making it harder for people with less than perfect eyesight, with light colors and light text. I just don't understand this. A tiny screen AND unreadable text is unacceptable for such people.
    It seems that Apple is becoming smaller and smaller in Android's rearview mirror, and that is a shame, as I really do like iPhones. But I have to go with what I can use. Maybe someday they will come out with a "S4" size screen, and make it easier for a large section of people to use. Here's hoping.
    Why don't you just change the text size under accessibility settings as well as toggle on enhance text legibility and background contrast (not working system wide due to it being beta)?

    Anyway, it seems you are after a phone with a larger display which Apple doesn't yet make. Nothing is stopping you from getting a S4 though...
    06-20-2013 03:44 PM
  5. pappy53's Avatar
    First of all, iOS 7 is nowhere near finished yet...

    And I would argue that Apple is NOT "becoming smaller and smaller in Android's rearview mirror". Apple is still selling lots and lots of products... frankly the only time Android/Samsung makes a move on Apple's position as the leader is in the 6 months or so before Apple releases its new phone.

    There will always be people who aren’t fans or prefer another OS/product over Apple's... and there will always be those who prefer a mini-tablet sized phone, but for the life of me, I couldn’t tell you why. For me and many that I know, the 4" screen is plenty big enough.
    Apple's position as the leader? Apple has not led over Android in a long time, at any time of the year. Android is the clear leader in the U.S. and worldwide. But my point is that I hope that Apple makes iOS 7 readable to people with less than perfect eyesight. Is that too much to ask?
    redbeard likes this.
    06-20-2013 04:01 PM
  6. pappy53's Avatar
    " Nothing is stopping you from getting a S4 though...".

    Yeah, nothing but money! Lol.
    redbeard likes this.
    06-20-2013 04:04 PM
  7. warcraftWidow's Avatar
    Apple's position as the leader? Apple has not led over Android in a long time, at any time of the year. Android is the clear leader in the U.S. and worldwide. But my point is that I hope that Apple makes iOS 7 readable to people with less than perfect eyesight. Is that too much to ask?
    Depends on whether you view market share or profit share when you call Android or Apple the "leader". Yes there are more Android handsets (although lots of those are low-end and probably don't get used as smartphones), but Apple has a very high percentage of industry profits considering that its one company compared to many Android phone manufacturers.
    Just_Me_D and Fausty82 like this.
    06-20-2013 07:37 PM
  8. pappy53's Avatar
    Depends on whether you view market share or profit share when you call Android or Apple the "leader". Yes there are more Android handsets (although lots of those are low-end and probably don't get used as smartphones), but Apple has a very high percentage of industry profits considering that its one company compared to many Android phone manufacturers.
    I was speaking of marketshare, and I would venture to say that Fausty82 was speaking of marketshare, also. I am an iOS fan just as much as I am an Android fan, but let's face it, Android phone sales blow iPhone sales out of the water. And that is marketshare.
    06-20-2013 07:59 PM
  9. warcraftWidow's Avatar
    I was speaking of marketshare, and I would venture to say that Fausty82 was speaking of marketshare, also. I am an iOS fan just as much as I am an Android fan, but let's face it, Android phone sales blow iPhone sales out of the water. And that is marketshare.
    Android absolutely has market share, no doubt. Personally I'd rather have the money though

    I also have to wonder how many Android phones are truly used as smartphones when mobile Safari is consistently seeing far more traffic than the various Android browsers. Maybe the Android users only use other apps, I don't know, but most stats I've seen for apps say iOS users are far more likely to pay for apps.

    Anyway I have nothing against Android although if I ever got one it would have to he a Nexus device. Just sometimes interesting and sometimes meaningless differences between the users of each type of device.
    06-20-2013 09:04 PM
  10. Fausty82's Avatar
    I was speaking of marketshare, and I would venture to say that Fausty82 was speaking of marketshare, also. I am an iOS fan just as much as I am an Android fan, but let's face it, Android phone sales blow iPhone sales out of the water. And that is marketshare.
    You would be incorrect. I was speaking of cash profit from sales of their devices. Show me the money. Apple may want an iPhone in every pocket, but they continue to be focused on their margins, as well. Market share is good, but you can’t spend it if there’s no (or not much) profit in it.

    Android may sell more units world wide (and even domestically), but they are lower end, $99 units (or free with contract)... many of which aren’t on the current level of OS. The fragmentation is a major factor in Android's effort to conquer the world. WIth multiple manufacturers building multiple models, you have so many phones competing for that share of the Android profit.

    As they say in the negotiation game, "money talks, BS walks"...
    06-20-2013 09:36 PM
  11. pappy53's Avatar
    You would be incorrect. I was speaking of cash profit from sales of their devices. Android may sell more units world wide (and even domestically), but they are lower end, $99 units (or free with contract)... many of which aren’t on the current level of OS. The fragmentation is a major factor in Android's effort to conquer the world.

    As they say in the negotiation game, "money talks, BS walks"...
    And you know that they are low-end phones, how? Or just guessing?
    06-20-2013 09:40 PM
  12. Fausty82's Avatar
    And you know that they are low-end phones, how? Or just guessing?
    Because every ad I see in print on TV is for a $99 or less phone. I don’t "know" because I haven’t researched every single one, but from the ads that I have seen, it appears to be true. To quote the great Lawrence "Yogi" Berra, "you can observe a lot just by watching".
    06-20-2013 09:45 PM
  13. pappy53's Avatar
    Because every ad I see in print on TV is for a $99 or less phone. I don’t "know" because I haven’t researched every single one, but from the ads that I have seen, it appears to be true. To quote the great Lawrence "Yogi" Berra, "you can observe a lot just by watching".
    I can't argue with Yogi.
    Fausty82 likes this.
    06-20-2013 09:53 PM
  14. swarlos's Avatar
    I never understand why this marketshare argument keeps getting pounded to death. Yes we all know that there a boat load of Android devices out there but Apple doesn't care about that they're bringing in more profit than any Android manufacture based off the amount of iDevices they sell.

    Now Samsung makes a good chunk of change as well but they don't nearly make as much profit per a device as Apple does.

    There's a really good article that discusses the favor of profit share over market share in the iOS vs Android argument I'm pretty sure it was on iMore but don't have the link.


    Sent from the collector home world.
    06-20-2013 10:15 PM
  15. Richard Nieves's Avatar
    While this is largely true, I think people have a valid complaint with regard to the icons in iOS 7. Flat icons are one thing but ugly flat icons are another thing entirely. It lacks the usual Apple panache and is reminiscent of something from a 70's comic book. I sincerely hope they rethink the direction they've taken there. I kind of like what they did with the WWDC app icon... Light gradient, colourful, no gloss... Just gorgeous, instead of the overly bright remix of pastel and fluorescence in the iOS 7 system apps.

    The other aspects of iOS 7 are brilliant and well thought out though and worth the update alone.
    As many have said, the thing about design is, it's subjective. Some will like it, some will not. I personally hated the WWDC app. It looked inconsistent and very boring. Too much grey. The new apps may have a lot of white but the translucency and accent colors balance it out better. However, like you, i agree that the wwdc app icon looked good and i am not a fan of the icons used in ios 7. they feel out of place. Of course that's my opinion and I don't expect everyone to agree :-)
    06-21-2013 12:56 AM
  16. Richard Nieves's Avatar
    I never understand why this marketshare argument keeps getting pounded to death. Yes we all know that there a boat load of Android devices out there but Apple doesn't care about that they're bringing in more profit than any Android manufacture based off the amount of iDevices they sell.

    Now Samsung makes a good chunk of change as well but they don't nearly make as much profit per a device as Apple does.

    There's a really good article that discusses the favor of profit share over market share in the iOS vs Android argument I'm pretty sure it was on iMore but don't have the link.


    Sent from the collector home world.
    Me neither. Honestly, is it even fair to count every android phone? There are several manufacturers and models. I feel like the iPhone does quite good considering its one device. Why is it that they are "supposed" to compete with several devices? It's one phone and it does well.
    06-21-2013 01:03 AM
  17. swarlos's Avatar
    Me neither. Honestly, is it even fair to count every android phone? There are several manufacturers and models. I feel like the iPhone does quite good considering its one device. Why is it that they are "supposed" to compete with several devices? It's one phone and it does well.
    Exactly! There's like 100's of different Android devices so of course it's easy for Android to smash in market share the markets so freaking saturated with low end devices I mean just look at how many freaking variants there are of the Galaxy Suck 4 alone.

    So I absolutely think Apple is killing it with their lineup.


    Sent from the collector home world.
    06-21-2013 01:06 AM
  18. Dryland's Avatar
    Exactly! There's like 100's of different Android devices so of course it's easy for Android to smash in market share the markets so freaking saturated with low end devices I mean just look at how many freaking variants there are of the Galaxy Suck 4 alone.
    It's like comparing apples to the whole produce section at the grocers. Personally, I never felt that it was Apple against android. There are too many variants of android. I say pick a particular android model and then compare sales/market share. If apple licensed iOS to manufacturers it would be fair to compare against all android devices, but this isn't the case. In my scenario, Apple wins hands down.
    06-21-2013 01:27 AM
  19. Dryland's Avatar
    Using iOS 6 on my iPad and using iOS 7 on my iPhone shows me instantly the difference. Using iOS 6 has started to feel so weird, old, wrong.
    I've had this thought a few times since using iOS 7. I can't wait to get it on my iPad mini. My mini is jail broken but I'm willing to lose that for the simplicity of iOS 7.

    Saying its simpler is also a bit of an lie. iOS 7 has introduced many advanced features that probably won't be used by 75% of iPhone users. But for "pro" users it feels right. I truly could care less about the icons, half of them are hidden in folders anyways. For me, the new design makes it feel like a new phone.

    I wonder how many complaints regarding the new design are coming from people who have actually used iOS 7. I haven't heard many at all.
    iSeans likes this.
    06-21-2013 01:38 AM
  20. bunjy's Avatar
    You would be incorrect. I was speaking of cash profit from sales of their devices. Show me the money. Apple may want an iPhone in every pocket, but they continue to be focused on their margins, as well. Market share is good, but you cant spend it if theres no (or not much) profit in it.

    Android may sell more units world wide (and even domestically), but they are lower end, $99 units (or free with contract)... many of which arent on the current level of OS. The fragmentation is a major factor in Android's effort to conquer the world. WIth multiple manufacturers building multiple models, you have so many phones competing for that share of the Android profit.

    As they say in the negotiation game, "money talks, BS walks"...
    Fausty82 is correct when it comes to profits. I just finished my MBA this year, and interestingly, we did a Harvard business case on Apple in 2012. I even wrote a paper about what I thought Apple should do from a strategic perspective going forward. Anyway, our professor shared some analysis that showed how much more profitable Apple is compared to the rest of the industry. Of course, Samsung is catching up. Apple's margins took a small hit with the iPad mini, but they are still the envy of the industry. Technically, Android has a higher market share of device sales, but profits win out no matter what. This is another reason why Apple has been hesitant this far to release a "cheaper" iPhone. They don't want to weaken their strong margins.
    06-21-2013 01:51 AM
  21. pappy53's Avatar
    Fausty82 is correct when it comes to profits. I just finished my MBA this year, and interestingly, we did a Harvard business case on Apple in 2012. I even wrote a paper about what I thought Apple should do from a strategic perspective going forward. Anyway, our professor shared some analysis that showed how much more profitable Apple is compared to the rest of the industry. Of course, Samsung is catching up. Apple's margins took a small hit with the iPad mini, but they are still the envy of the industry. Technically, Android has a higher market share of device sales, but profits win out no matter what. This is another reason why Apple has been hesitant this far to release a "cheaper" iPhone. They don't want to weaken their strong margins.
    No, profits do not win out, no matter what. There is a thing called "fanboy bragging rights". Now, an Android fanboy can say "we sell the most phones by far", while the Apple fanboys say "yeah, but Apple made more profit off of me". I'm just kidding, of course. At this time, since Jelly Bean has been released, the playing field has leveled at least, or probably Android is the better OS now for features. If you want simplicity, then iOS is probably best for you. But, if you want customization, ability to handle attachments, a file manager system, text wrap, and a larger screen with great resolution, then Android is for you. It's just a matter of what works best for each person. The age old argument of lag is pretty much gone with Jelly Bean, and the screens on phones such as S4, DNA, and HTC One are absolutely fantastic. Retina is a fine display, but not close to these. But I am sure that Apple will step it up.

    BTW, congrats on the MBA!
    06-21-2013 10:46 AM
  22. iSeans's Avatar
    I've had this thought a few times since using iOS 7. I can't wait to get it on my iPad mini. My mini is jail broken but I'm willing to lose that for the simplicity of iOS 7.

    Saying its simpler is also a bit of an lie. iOS 7 has introduced many advanced features that probably won't be used by 75% of iPhone users. But for "pro" users it feels right. I truly could care less about the icons, half of them are hidden in folders anyways. For me, the new design makes it feel like a new phone.

    I wonder how many complaints regarding the new design are coming from people who have actually used iOS 7. I haven't heard many at all.
    I'm itching to get it on my iPad 3rd gen. My only issue is that my boy uses it all the time and he won't be happy if there is a chance his apps no longer work. haha
    06-21-2013 11:32 AM
  23. bunjy's Avatar
    No, profits do not win out, no matter what. There is a thing called "fanboy bragging rights". Now, an Android fanboy can say "we sell the most phones by far", while the Apple fanboys say "yeah, but Apple made more profit off of me". I'm just kidding, of course. At this time, since Jelly Bean has been released, the playing field has leveled at least, or probably Android is the better OS now for features. If you want simplicity, then iOS is probably best for you. But, if you want customization, ability to handle attachments, a file manager system, text wrap, and a larger screen with great resolution, then Android is for you. It's just a matter of what works best for each person. The age old argument of lag is pretty much gone with Jelly Bean, and the screens on phones such as S4, DNA, and HTC One are absolutely fantastic. Retina is a fine display, but not close to these. But I am sure that Apple will step it up.

    BTW, congrats on the MBA!
    Thanks. With a wife and three kids and a full-time job, I'm glad to be done with school.

    Sure, if you're taking a "fanboy" perspective, you have a legitimate argument when it comes to market share only. However, that kind of thing means very little in the grand scheme of things. Just ask HTC what they think is more important. I promise you, they'd rather have a share of Apple's profits than a share of Android's "fanboy bragging rights".
    Fausty82 likes this.
    06-21-2013 12:05 PM
  24. Angelo_Campher's Avatar
    No, profits do not win out, no matter what. There is a thing called "fanboy bragging rights". Now, an Android fanboy can say "we sell the most phones by far", while the Apple fanboys say "yeah, but Apple made more profit off of me". I'm just kidding, of course. At this time, since Jelly Bean has been released, the playing field has leveled at least, or probably Android is the better OS now for features. If you want simplicity, then iOS is probably best for you. But, if you want customization, ability to handle attachments, a file manager system, text wrap, and a larger screen with great resolution, then Android is for you. It's just a matter of what works best for each person. The age old argument of lag is pretty much gone with Jelly Bean, and the screens on phones such as S4, DNA, and HTC One are absolutely fantastic. Retina is a fine display, but not close to these. But I am sure that Apple will step it up.

    BTW, congrats on the MBA!
    Not close to these? You must be joking right...

    From the DisplayMate tests the iPhone 5's screen is on par with those you mention despite it being 8 months older.

    Display technology has come a long way and these tests are very scientific. The differences are not apparent to the naked eye...

    So how do you arrive at the conclusion that Retina is not even close when you haven't done a study of your own? Or have you?
    06-21-2013 12:27 PM
  25. pappy53's Avatar
    Not close to these? You must be joking right...

    From the DisplayMate tests the iPhone 5's screen is on par with those you mention despite it being 8 months older.

    Display technology has come a long way and these tests are very scientific. The differences are not apparent to the naked eye...

    So how do you arrive at the conclusion that Retina is not even close when you haven't done a study of your own? Or have you?
    Yes, I have done a study, as I have owned an iPhone 5, S4, and DNA. The colors really pop on the Androids, as compared to the i5, and text is crisper on the Androids. Also, video playback is clearer. And with the superior camera of the S4, and even the other cameras, pictures look better on the Android screens.
    06-21-2013 12:53 PM
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