1. doogald's Avatar
    I don’t understand why you posted that link. There is nothing but a quick mention, much like in your reply, about doing a restore. Is that your website?
    Not me, it is obviously somebody named Michael Glenn, but I linked because, due to performance issues, he theorized he had this battery issue, found out that he didn’t, did a backup/reset/restore, and found that his battery and performance issues had been resolved. The advantage of a restore over a reset and set up as new is that you don’t lose information (i.e., messages), don’t have to reinstall apps, don’t have to change global settings, don’t have to set permissions the first time that you run apps, etc. Though of course there are a few things that have to be redone (Touch ID and Apple Pay among them.)
    scruffypig likes this.
    12-30-2017 10:03 AM
  2. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    I really, really hope with all this money that Apple has that they’ll invest in reinventing battery technology altogether.
    12-30-2017 10:37 AM
  3. Quis89's Avatar
    To deem people “wrong” because of your inability to understand their reasoning is in and of itself “wrong”. What doesn’t make sense for some people makes perfect sense to others. I learned that a long time ago. As for Apple’s battery replacement option, some people will take advantage of it and some people won’t.
    “They” = Apple.
    BreakingKayfabe likes this.
    12-30-2017 01:34 PM
  4. mnc76's Avatar
    None of your Android devices have needed to throttle performance since they typically come with larger batteries that don't degrade so fast. Apple knew 100% their batteries would need throttling after a year or so and went ahead and planned to use to use batteries they knew would make the phone obsolete #plannedobsolesence

    They knew the batteries would need throttling and instead of including larger batts they slowed down your phone instead. Win win for them and lose lose for you
    12-31-2017 04:01 AM
  5. Rob Phillips's Avatar
    None of your Android devices have needed to throttle performance since they typically come with larger batteries that don't degrade so fast. Apple knew 100% their batteries would need throttling after a year or so and went ahead and planned to use to use batteries they knew would make the phone obsolete #plannedobsolesence

    They knew the batteries would need throttling and instead of including larger batts they slowed down your phone instead. Win win for them and lose lose for you
    Welcome to iMore! I’ve never heard of iPhone batteries degrading faster than Android batteries. I have, however, read lots of things about Android devices often requiring more battery to run, therefore requiring larger batteries.
    Planned obsolescence...There isn’t a smartphone manufacturer on the planet not guilty of this. I’m not saying Apple is innocent here, I just don’t think they were doing this maliciously. Their big mistake here was in not being more transparent to users. A slightly slower at times phone is better than one that crashes but nobody wants to hear their phone is being throttled.
    TgeekB likes this.
    12-31-2017 06:18 AM
  6. TgeekB's Avatar
    None of your Android devices have needed to throttle performance since they typically come with larger batteries that don't degrade so fast. Apple knew 100% their batteries would need throttling after a year or so and went ahead and planned to use to use batteries they knew would make the phone obsolete #plannedobsolesence

    They knew the batteries would need throttling and instead of including larger batts they slowed down your phone instead. Win win for them and lose lose for you
    Really? I highly doubt it.
    MasterDarque likes this.
    12-31-2017 08:38 AM
  7. reeneebob's Avatar
    None of your Android devices have needed to throttle performance since they typically come with larger batteries that don't degrade so fast. Apple knew 100% their batteries would need throttling after a year or so and went ahead and planned to use to use batteries they knew would make the phone obsolete #plannedobsolesence

    They knew the batteries would need throttling and instead of including larger batts they slowed down your phone instead. Win win for them and lose lose for you
    12-31-2017 12:50 PM
  8. Ledsteplin's Avatar
    None of your Android devices have needed to throttle performance since they typically come with larger batteries that don't degrade so fast. Apple knew 100% their batteries would need throttling after a year or so and went ahead and planned to use to use batteries they knew would make the phone obsolete #plannedobsolesence

    They knew the batteries would need throttling and instead of including larger batts they slowed down your phone instead. Win win for them and lose lose for you
    They don't need throttling after a year or so. Maybe after 2 years or more, only if the battery becomes very degraded. It's the same affect as Low Power Mode. I've used that a few times, but didn't notice any slowdown.
    12-31-2017 02:47 PM
  9. doogald's Avatar
    They don't need throttling after a year or so. Maybe after 2 years or more, only if the battery becomes very degraded. It's the same affect as Low Power Mode. I've used that a few times, but didn't notice any slowdown.
    Apple turned on throttling for the 6s last year with 10.2.1 presumably because it was necessary for some extremely heavy users who already had about 500 charge cycles in 15 or so months. The key thing is charge cycles; when they are about 500 on these batteries, that reportedly puts the battery in a condition where they cannot handle high drains.
    12-31-2017 03:12 PM
  10. Ledsteplin's Avatar
    Apple turned on throttling for the 6s last year with 10.2.1 presumably because it was necessary for some extremely heavy users who already had about 500 charge cycles in 15 or so months. The key thing is charge cycles; when they are about 500 on these batteries, that reportedly puts the battery in a condition where they cannot handle high drains.
    500 isn't that many. I probably have over 800 on my 6s Plus. No issues other than charging 3 times or more a day. Maybe I haven't had any high drains.
    MaxSmarties likes this.
    12-31-2017 10:49 PM
  11. MaxSmarties's Avatar
    None of your Android devices have needed to throttle performance since they typically come with larger batteries that don't degrade so fast. Apple knew 100% their batteries would need throttling after a year or so and went ahead and planned to use to use batteries they knew would make the phone obsolete #plannedobsolesence

    They knew the batteries would need throttling and instead of including larger batts they slowed down your phone instead. Win win for them and lose lose for you
    And your assumption that a relatively smaller battery means it degrades faster is based on what ?
    Since the battery life is comparable (sometimes even better on iPhone) I can’t find any reason to support that theory
    01-01-2018 04:53 AM
  12. MaxSmarties's Avatar
    500 isn't that many. I probably have over 800 on my 6s Plus. No issues other than charging 3 times or more a day. Maybe I haven't had any high drains.
    It’s not a fixed number. Batteries are different one to another. There are batteries that are depleted after 300 cycles (and you should have a in warranty swap for those), while others last above 500 cycles, which is considered as “normal”. I had an iPhone 5S with over 700 cycles and still above 88% health.
    01-01-2018 04:56 AM
  13. MaxSmarties's Avatar
    I pretty much share the same view as you. As for the iPhone 7, it’s arguably more of a preemptive move than confirmation of a definitive and widespread battery problem.
    Absolutely agree. It’s a preemptive move to address issues for heavy usage users (and weaker batches of batteries).
    01-01-2018 05:04 AM
  14. Bazza1's Avatar
    Denial of a problem until they are caught out, and now they are trying to get ahead of the bad press and lawsuits.
    It's the usual Apple game plan.

    Batteries wear out. We know that. Apple knows that. But when we buy a product, we expect it to work as intended for as long as it is able - in this case, until the battery finally dies. We don't expect that the product will be intentionally reduced in capabilities to cover failings elsewhere.

    (Heck, when we know the battery in our car is on its last legs, we don't expect the car to go only 80% as fast, or run only some of the accessories. It runs until the battery can no longer start and run the car)

    And if, with a degrading battery - be that wear and tear, bad design, wrong product or a deeper fault in the core of the OS that Apple has chosen to ignore - the iPhone is incapable of running the OS as it once did, perhaps Apple should simply have an OS version for each iPhone, and stop offering new 'features' in each OS version 'upgrade' they know a degraded battery cannot fully take advantage of. Or produce a product with a hot-swappable battery to extend the life of a product they say they intend users to love for as long as possible.

    But to deny - as long as they did - that users felt the OS upgrades slowed the devices (without explaining why) and then happily encourage their own retailers and 3rd Party providers to sell a new phone to customers when a battery swap would do? How many 6, 6s, 7, and 7s phones are sitting in junk drawers, replaced because they weren't working as expected, and Apple did not say why?

    Take advantage of the cheaper battery swap while you can, but ensure you sign nothing that removes your right to consumer protection, or to recompense should lawsuits proceed.
    01-01-2018 09:06 AM
  15. TgeekB's Avatar
    Comparing a car battery (that only starts the car) to a smartphone battery (that constantly runs different processes that require different loads) has no merit.

    I don’t believe Apple makes any promises about how long the battery, which they don’t make, will last. You also don’t have to upgrade to the latest software update.

    Go get a $29 battery upgrade or stop complaining. There was no conspiracy from Apple but perhaps aliens are alive at Area 51.
    01-01-2018 09:51 AM
  16. doogald's Avatar
    (Heck, when we know the battery in our car is on its last legs, we don't expect the car to go only 80% as fast, or run only some of the accessories. It runs until the battery can no longer start and run the car)
    So, would you rather your car just die while it is running when you press the gas when this fictional car battery is on its last legs, or just not speed up but continue running? Because that's what Apple did - slow the phone down **temporarily** so the phone just doesn't die in your hand. As it is, only electric cars run on batteries - most cars run on gasoline, and the battery just powers the electrical system. So, this is more like a car that can no longer deliver gasoline as fast as the engine needs it when you try to push the car hard. Would you want that fictional car to be smart enough not to die on the highway when you try to accelerate past a slower vehicle, or just fail hard and stall despite the fact there is plenty of fuel to keep on going at a normal speed? That's what this change is doing to the iPhone - it's preventing it from running the turbocharger but allowing it to continue at normal speed without a hard failure, making your car stop and forcing you to restart it and find that the gas tank still had enough fuel to continue going when it stopped.

    Unfortunately, smartphones are not cars. Cars are designed and meant to be regularly maintained over many years; smartphones are designed to be useful for only a short amount of time, and any smartphone maker who has tried to make a modular device that can be upgraded has not been successful in the market.

    But to deny - as long as they did - that users felt the OS upgrades slowed the devices (without explaining why) and then happily encourage their own retailers and 3rd Party providers to sell a new phone to customers when a battery swap would do? How many 6, 6s, 7, and 7s phones are sitting in junk drawers, replaced because they weren't working as expected, and Apple did not say why?
    This slowing just started last January, and only for 6/6s/SE, and these slowdown conspiracy theories are far older than that, allegedly for older iPhones than those.

    I can guarantee that there is not a single iPhone 7s sitting in a junk drawer, though.

    (I honestly think that more people upgrade not because their phones are slow but because the batteries no longer hold a charge for a sufficient amount of time.)

    Take advantage of the cheaper battery swap while you can, but ensure you sign nothing that removes your right to consumer protection, or to recompense should lawsuits proceed.
    Right, sue, sue, sue, that's the American way. (Why would you get excited about entering a class action suit that will fill lawyers' pockets and get you a check for a few cents or maybe dollars in ten years?)

    If you feel so strongly about it, make Apple hurt where it counts by not buying another iPhone. And, if you still want an iPhone, be happy that there is a vigorous group of journalists holding Apple's feet to the fire; without them, this program to change batteries for $29 rather than $69 (and only when the battery has less than 80% original life left) never would have happened.
    Tartarus, Annie_8plus and TgeekB like this.
    01-01-2018 09:57 AM
  17. Tartarus's Avatar
    So, would you rather your car just die while it is running when you press the gas when this fictional car battery is on its last legs, or just not speed up but continue running? Because that's what Apple did - slow the phone down **temporarily** so the phone just doesn't die in your hand. As it is, only electric cars run on batteries - most cars run on gasoline, and the battery just powers the electrical system. So, this is more like a car that can no longer deliver gasoline as fast as the engine needs it when you try to push the car hard. Would you want that fictional car to be smart enough not to die on the highway when you try to accelerate past a slower vehicle, or just fail hard and stall despite the fact there is plenty of fuel to keep on going at a normal speed? That's what this change is doing to the iPhone - it's preventing it from running the turbocharger but allowing it to continue at normal speed without a hard failure, making your car stop and forcing you to restart it and find that the gas tank still had enough fuel to continue going when it stopped.

    Unfortunately, smartphones are not cars. Cars are designed and meant to be regularly maintained over many years; smartphones are designed to be useful for only a short amount of time, and any smartphone maker who has tried to make a modular device that can be upgraded has not been successful in the market.



    This slowing just started last January, and only for 6/6s/SE, and these slowdown conspiracy theories are far older than that, allegedly for older iPhones than those.

    I can guarantee that there is not a single iPhone 7s sitting in a junk drawer, though.

    (I honestly think that more people upgrade not because their phones are slow but because the batteries no longer hold a charge for a sufficient amount of time.)



    Right, sue, sue, sue, that's the American way. (Why would you get excited about entering a class action suit that will fill lawyers' pockets and get you a check for a few cents or maybe dollars in ten years?)

    If you feel so strongly about it, make Apple hurt where it counts by not buying another iPhone. And, if you still want an iPhone, be happy that there is a vigorous group of journalists holding Apple's feet to the fire; without them, this program to change batteries for $29 rather than $69 (and only when the battery has less than 80% original life left) never would have happened.
    Exactly this^^
    If only I could like this post multiple times.
    Annie_8plus likes this.
    01-01-2018 10:07 AM
  18. SprSynJn's Avatar
    Interesting write up from Forbes about the upcoming iOS update. Well said in my opinion. Especially the part about what other companies have said regarding the issue.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonke...lem-slow-down/
    calebt likes this.
    01-02-2018 05:51 AM
  19. calebt's Avatar
    Interesting write up from Forbes about the upcoming iOS update. Well said in my opinion. Especially the part about what other companies have said regarding the issue.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonke...lem-slow-down/
    Thanks that's a good article, well now we know why the flash don't work on a cold iPhone.
    01-02-2018 06:52 AM
  20. Nodnerb's Avatar
    I certainly havent read every post in this thread, but to me the real problem is that apple is basically saying that their phones aren't able to run properly on a slightly degraded battery. I'm sure it is planned obsolescence under the guise of "we're doing this for you". So far no android phones seem to need to have a yearly battery replacement to keep them from crashing unless you slow the processor. What a joke. Apple resale value should take a huge hit for this. But of course apple doesn't care about that.
    01-02-2018 09:02 AM
  21. doogald's Avatar
    I certainly havent read every post in this thread, but to me the real problem is that apple is basically saying that their phones aren't able to run properly on a slightly degraded battery.
    Not really. The throttling happens after approximately 500 full charge cycles, when the battery is at about 80% of original capacity. That is not a slightly degraded battery. People who have to fully charge their phones more than once a day may hit this after a year, but most people will be at about two years. (My guess is that most people do not fully discharge their battery in a single day, so probably at most go through 5 charge cycles in a week.) My iPhone 6s (battery replaced in December 2016 as part of the battery recall) has 250 charge cycles in 13 months, with about 97% of the original capacity when at full charge, and Geekbench numbers remain the same as when the 6s was new - I am not being throttled. My guess is that I might be just hitting this if I still had the original battery, but I have had the phone for 2 years and 3 months. My use is probably slightly heavier than average.
    01-02-2018 09:49 AM
  22. Tartarus's Avatar
    I'd be pissed if my expensive device was being throttled for "my own good". Either give me a notification that the battery needs to be replaced or explicitly state that older phones will be throttled to preserve battery.

    I won't be purchasing another iPhone until either of those two conditions are met. My opinion isn't going to change on this.
    I saw elsewhere that you purchased a new iPhone X today.
    Enjoy it
    01-02-2018 03:53 PM
  23. Ledsteplin's Avatar
    Not really. The throttling happens after approximately 500 full charge cycles, when the battery is at about 80% of original capacity. That is not a slightly degraded battery. People who have to fully charge their phones more than once a day may hit this after a year, but most people will be at about two years. (My guess is that most people do not fully discharge their battery in a single day, so probably at most go through 5 charge cycles in a week.) My iPhone 6s (battery replaced in December 2016 as part of the battery recall) has 250 charge cycles in 13 months, with about 97% of the original capacity when at full charge, and Geekbench numbers remain the same as when the 6s was new - I am not being throttled. My guess is that I might be just hitting this if I still had the original battery, but I have had the phone for 2 years and 3 months. My use is probably slightly heavier than average.
    I've had my 6s Plus for 27 months. I'm a heavy user. The only issue I have is having to charge more often. Show me where Apple says it starts to slow phones at 500 cycles. I have at least 700 to 800 cycles behind me and am at 30% battery wear.
    Annie_8plus likes this.
    01-02-2018 04:01 PM
  24. doogald's Avatar
    I've had my 6s Plus for 27 months. I'm a heavy user. The only issue I have is having to charge more often. Show me where Apple says it starts to slow phones at 500 cycles. I have at least 700 to 800 cycles behind me and am at 30% battery wear.
    Fair enough; they haven't said the exact conditions, but this document details that batteries that have "chemically aged", coupled with batteries in extremely cold conditions, may have too much impedance and may "dynamically manage performance peaks". I got the 500 cycles/80% from Apple's warranty that the battery will be replaced if it falls below those totals while under warranty, and, until last week, Apple would not replace a battery by customer's request for $69 if the battery was above 80% health.

    Apple's iPhone battery warranty: https://www.apple.com/batteries/service-and-recycling/

    Your battery is designed to retain up to 80% of its original capacity at 500 complete charge cycles. The one-year warranty includes service coverage for a defective battery. If it is out of warranty, Apple offers a battery service for $79, plus $6.95 shipping, subject to local tax.
    It'd be interesting to see the results of a Geekbench test on your phone with your battery condition. That said, so far all of the reports about battery performance throttling that I have seen have been for the 4.7" and 4" phones, not the Plus sized models (though they are now also covered for the $29 battery replacement program.)
    01-02-2018 05:06 PM
  25. Ledsteplin's Avatar
    Fair enough; they haven't said the exact conditions, but this document details that batteries that have "chemically aged", coupled with batteries in extremely cold conditions, may have too much impedance and may "dynamically manage performance peaks". I got the 500 cycles/80% from Apple's warranty that the battery will be replaced if it falls below those totals while under warranty, and, until last week, Apple would not replace a battery by customer's request for $69 if the battery was above 80% health.

    Apple's iPhone battery warranty: https://www.apple.com/batteries/service-and-recycling/



    It'd be interesting to see the results of a Geekbench test on your phone with your battery condition. That said, so far all of the reports about battery performance throttling that I have seen have been for the 4.7" and 4" phones, not the Plus sized models (though they are now also covered for the $29 battery replacement program.)
    That warranty is just what they guarantee. But phones will go a lot more before having issues with the battery, other than frequent charging.
    TgeekB likes this.
    01-02-2018 05:25 PM
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