1. bobbob1016's Avatar
    I simply can't understand threads like this one. You apparently can find nothing positive to say about Apple, iPhone or iOS so why not switch to a different operating system that better fits your needs/wants. Coming into an Apple forum and saying things like the changes are stupid or there is no valid reason for certain changes are just your opinions. I'm not trying to criticize you, I'm just trying to understand what you are trying to accomplish.
    So I'll validate you in that I like that Apple let's me force apps to only use location when I use them. Not forcing "always" or "never".

    Also the one that I can finally stop being begged to rate apps, although that should've been off from the start, I instantly one star any app that asks for a review more than once.

    There's also the regression that the toggles in control center not turning wifi or Bluetooth off according to motherboard and Apple's documentation they just disconnect, not actually turn off.

    I've said they're opinions, but when I got calls for Apple, stuff like this was the main reason most people didn't upgrade.

    And to the opinion guy, I never intended this to be fact. It is fact that I think it is stupid. And it is fact that I haven't seen any justification for these UI changes. It is also fact that again, most of the people I spoke with working for Apple, didn't want things to change when they upgraded.

    I don't see any advantage to a big notice for "messages" or "settings" that was an intentional back step. Same with them onboarding me on apps I know after the upgrade.

    I carry two phones actually and my second is Android. That doesn't negate the fact that a device I paid significant money for had features changed/regressed for no reason with no recourse.

    Glad someone seems to have said Apple will sign a downgrade. I'm just unsure if I can since they kind of forced me to "upgrade" iCloud, not sure it works with iOS 10. Plus, Apple doesn't bsckport security fixes, so I either have an unsecure phone, or deal with their stupidity.
    09-21-2017 08:59 AM
  2. Ledsteplin's Avatar
    While most of what you complain about don't bother me, I do think the BIG titles seem ridiculous and a bit ugly. My biggest complaint with iOS 11 is they made 32 bit apps useless. I have several 32 bit apps I like a lot and can't find suitable replacements for. I'd rather have those apps than the new features and changes with iOS 11. But it is what it is. I'll deal with it next year when I upgrade.
    Tartarus likes this.
    09-21-2017 09:26 AM
  3. doogald's Avatar
    It’s too early to speculate about reachability on the X. It’s not out yet.
    There was no reachability on the X in the hands-on area, from what has been reported, so I'd say that speculation is ok.

    See https://www.imore.com/iphone-8-vs-ip...should-you-buy
    09-21-2017 10:12 AM
  4. Tartarus's Avatar
    There was no reachability on the X in the hands-on area, from what has been reported, so I'd say that speculation is ok.

    See https://www.imore.com/iphone-8-vs-ip...should-you-buy
    Reachability is a software thingie. I won’t be surprised if they include it in iOS 11.1 or iOS 11.2

    If they don’t, they’ll exclude a lot of people, which will lead in sales drops which in turn will force their hand to include it.
    09-21-2017 10:27 AM
  5. scotstoun's Avatar
    Hello. I was part of the iOS beta program and have generally welcomed it. One very strange problem I have encountered is printing from my iPhone 6 or my iPad pro. If I print a doc in pages or numbers it will come out in a minuscule font in one corner of an A4 page. Same doc can be printed from my MacBook Pro with no problems. Has anybody encountered this problem? The printer is an HP Officejet Pro 8500. No problems printing PDFs.
    09-21-2017 10:37 AM
  6. doogald's Avatar
    Reachability is a software thingie. I won’t be surprised if they include it in iOS 11.1 or iOS 11.2

    If they don’t, they’ll exclude a lot of people, which will lead in sales drops which in turn will force their hand to include it.
    We'll see. I think Apple will be happy to direct people who need reachability to the iPhone 8 series, which supports it just fine. I'm not sure that Apple has the necessary hardware in any of the buttons to allow a double tap of anything to cue a function like reachability, and double-press of the sleep/wake button is already defined to Apple Pay. But, maybe they'll do something like 3D press on the control that you swipe up to go home? I hope they do something - I use it a lot, on a 4.7" sized phone. And with control panel in the top right ear, I think I'd want reachability more.
    09-21-2017 10:48 AM
  7. Quis89's Avatar
    Also why no option to stop screenshots from lingering on my screen? I know when I take one, and don't need to edit it right away.

    It's like they made the OS for non techies, without the option to turn the kid's gloves off?

    How long is the revert window? Hoping the seemingly forced iCloud "upgrade" thing didn't make it incompatible with iOS 10.
    I actually like this feature. More often than not, when I take a screen shot it is to quickly send to someone. My photo gallery is full of screenshots that I forget to go in and delete. I like being able to send them quick and remove them when they are no longer needed.
    Tartarus and nikkisharif like this.
    09-21-2017 10:59 AM
  8. bobbob1016's Avatar
    I actually like this feature. More often than not, when I take a screen shot it is to quickly send to someone. My photo gallery is full of screenshots that I forget to go in and delete. I like being able to send them quick and remove them when they are no longer needed.
    I see the utility, but to me it lingers way too long. Could be a switch. I'm not as angry on that since I see the use, but there could be a switch.

    The control center not turning wifi/bluetooth off is also terrible.
    Epitome1 likes this.
    09-21-2017 12:12 PM
  9. Tartarus's Avatar
    I see the utility, but to me it lingers way too long. Could be a switch. I'm not as angry on that since I see the use, but there could be a switch.

    The control center not turning wifi/bluetooth off is also terrible.
    I agree that it lingers too much if you don’t need to interact with it, but I swipe it away anyway.
    09-21-2017 12:57 PM
  10. Craig's Avatar
    I see the utility, but to me it lingers way too long. Could be a switch. I'm not as angry on that since I see the use, but there could be a switch.

    The control center not turning wifi/bluetooth off is also terrible.
    So don't use Control Center to turn off Wifi or BT, use Siri or set up a Launch button.. it's not that big of a deal, since it addresses other issues and consumer requests for Wifi and BT.
    Tartarus likes this.
    09-21-2017 02:26 PM
  11. flyinion's Avatar
    So I realize this is Apple and mobile but the comparison I'm about to give is still valid. Complaining that a bunch of changes happened between iOS 10 and 11 is like a PC user complaining that Windows 10 doesn't look like Windows 7 or Windows XP. It's a new major version number. Things get revised. Sometimes after a new release they realize things don't quite work in the real world like they were envisioned and the X.n releases fix those up.
    Tartarus and DarkKnight08 like this.
    09-21-2017 02:56 PM
  12. bobbob1016's Avatar
    So don't use Control Center to turn off Wifi or BT, use Siri or set up a Launch button.. it's not that big of a deal, since it addresses other issues and consumer requests for Wifi and BT.
    Imho, it should also be an option. I know why they'll say they did this, but the privacy guy in me says this may be for tracking or something. Just should make it like long press for actually off.

    So I realize this is Apple and mobile but the comparison I'm about to give is still valid. Complaining that a bunch of changes happened between iOS 10 and 11 is like a PC user complaining that Windows 10 doesn't look like Windows 7 or Windows XP. It's a new major version number. Things get revised. Sometimes after a new release they realize things don't quite work in the real world like they were envisioned and the X.n releases fix those up.
    I've been following this long enough to know the four times I've seen Apple back step/admit a mistake on iOS. First, charging for iOS 2.0, second, Steve Jobs saying there won't be an app store, third, making the switch on the iPad work for rotation lock, and fourth, volume rocker as a camera shutter.

    I can change most things in Windows 10 in some way or another (not their awful telemetry, but that's a different story). These aesthetic changes in iOS are negative, and can and should easily be a switch. And have yet to see a good reason their apps need to tell me which app I'm in. They even ignore the "system haptics" switch that I've had off since ever.
    09-21-2017 05:35 PM
  13. doogald's Avatar
    I know why they'll say they did this, but the privacy guy in me says this may be for tracking or something. Just should make it like long press for actually off.
    Apple tracking people? Really?

    They've already said why they've done this. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208086

    In iOS 11 and later, when you toggle the Wi-Fi or Bluetooth buttons in Control Center, your device will immediately disconnect from Wi-Fi and Bluetooth accessories. Both Wi-Fi and Bluetooth will continue to be available, so you can use these important features:
    • AirDrop
    • AirPlay
    • Apple Pencil
    • Apple Watch
    • Continuity features, like Handoff and Instant Hotspot
    • Instant Hotspot
    • Location Services
    So, as somebody who once worked in AppleCare, I'm sure that you can imagine lots of non-technical people who used control center to turn off BT in order to disconnect a speaker and discover that their Apple Watch was disconnected, or their Apple Pencil stopped working with their iPad Pro, and couldn't understand why.

    I hope that they add some way to turn off the radios from CC for more technical people like us. Long press on the icon? A third toggle as an option? This is obviously a controversial change, and Apple does often alter features in later releases when they've seen that a change is not liked. (Such as adding button shapes as an option in iOS 7.1.)
    09-21-2017 07:31 PM
  14. Soreloser's Avatar
    So just revert back to iOS 10. No one is forcing you to use iOS 11.
    What is the procedure to do this?
    09-21-2017 11:14 PM
  15. SprSynJn's Avatar
    I see the utility, but to me it lingers way too long. Could be a switch. I'm not as angry on that since I see the use, but there could be a switch.

    The control center not turning wifi/bluetooth off is also terrible.
    See here is where someone like me would find this useful. I keep wifi on all the time, because I don't want to have to remember to switch it back on when I get home. However, at my office there is a very poor wifi signal that my iPhone keeps trying to connect to. When it does, I simply toggle the switch in Control Center and it disconnects from only that network. I find this a very useful feature for me. Now I do think it would be in their best interest to implement a 3D touch function that would permanently disable wifi instead of having to switch it off in the settings app though. To appease some people of course.
    09-22-2017 02:59 AM
  16. bobbob1016's Avatar
    Apple tracking people? Really?

    They've already said why they've done this. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208086



    So, as somebody who once worked in AppleCare, I'm sure that you can imagine lots of non-technical people who used control center to turn off BT in order to disconnect a speaker and discover that their Apple Watch was disconnected, or their Apple Pencil stopped working with their iPad Pro, and couldn't understand why.

    I hope that they add some way to turn off the radios from CC for more technical people like us. Long press on the icon? A third toggle as an option? This is obviously a controversial change, and Apple does often alter features in later releases when they've seen that a change is not liked. (Such as adding button shapes as an option in iOS 7.1.)
    I never had anyone call in knowing about Airdrop, and I've never personally used it. I honestly never, in 4 years there, got a call (or at least enough to remember) to disconnect from wifi or a BT device. And I'd just tell them to do the "rectangle with a triangle in it" and tap iPhone. I got "why can't I connect?" but never the opposite. Most didn't even know CC existed, let alone how to activate it when I explained it.

    Either way, they made a switch not a switch, and made it more complicated to actually turn things off.

    Re:tracking, you can't prove a negative. You can take them for their word, but you can't *know* how or what they track. They say they do the fuzzing thing, but without a code audit, they could be lying through their teeth. Arguably, I can't prove it was actually off in iOS10 either, but as you said a long press could easily be used.
    09-22-2017 04:39 AM
  17. Tartarus's Avatar
    I never had anyone call in knowing about Airdrop, and I've never personally used it. I honestly never, in 4 years there, got a call (or at least enough to remember) to disconnect from wifi or a BT device. And I'd just tell them to do the "rectangle with a triangle in it" and tap iPhone. I got "why can't I connect?" but never the opposite. Most didn't even know CC existed, let alone how to activate it when I explained it.

    Either way, they made a switch not a switch, and made it more complicated to actually turn things off.

    Re:tracking, you can't prove a negative. You can take them for their word, but you can't *know* how or what they track. They say they do the fuzzing thing, but without a code audit, they could be lying through their teeth. Arguably, I can't prove it was actually off in iOS10 either, but as you said a long press could easily be used.
    If the change to the way the toggles are working are inconveniencing enough people, they will revert it to the way it used to be.
    Until then there is nobody on this forum that can do something about it.

    We can go back and forth about this into oblivion, but achieve nothing.

    I urge you to submit a feedback through https://www.apple.com/feedback/ and let them know how you think about the subject.
    DarkKnight08 and Sherry_B like this.
    09-22-2017 05:55 AM
  18. Sherry_B's Avatar
    These are stupid changes.
    This is your opinion.

    I enjoy the animations. I prefer the giant text. I don't have the issues you have with haptics. I'll agree that reachability should not have been removed from iPhone 10 simply because there's no Home button. They could of left it in there and allowed us to create a gesture for it, and for all we know that may be a plan at some later date.
    09-22-2017 11:37 AM
  19. Hendri Hendri's Avatar
    Also why no option to stop screenshots from lingering on my screen? I know when I take one, and don't need to edit it right away.

    It's like they made the OS for non techies, without the option to turn the kid's gloves off?

    How long is the revert window? Hoping the seemingly forced iCloud "upgrade" thing didn't make it incompatible with iOS 10.
    I kinda of like the new screenshot. Usually i take screenshot if i want to share to someone, after sent the screenshot, it has option to delete and not stored on my picture folder
    09-22-2017 11:48 AM
  20. Hendri Hendri's Avatar
    See here is where someone like me would find this useful. I keep wifi on all the time, because I don't want to have to remember to switch it back on when I get home. However, at my office there is a very poor wifi signal that my iPhone keeps trying to connect to. When it does, I simply toggle the switch in Control Center and it disconnects from only that network. I find this a very useful feature for me. Now I do think it would be in their best interest to implement a 3D touch function that would permanently disable wifi instead of having to switch it off in the settings app though. To appease some people of course.
    Yes, it seems strange for apple to change it this way. But as per your experience, i found it useful, because In some area, i turn off my wifi, but always forget to turn it on again. With this new setting, it helps alot
    09-22-2017 12:01 PM
  21. xtremeled's Avatar
    Thank you for explaining how *I* feel. You know me, a complete stranger better than I know myself.

    These are not things I will ever like. I will have to learn to live with it until there's a jailbreak. Apple likes forcing these things on people. There's no reason for these changes. They're not good, the reachability thing an example that Apple can't code. Regression testing is a basic programming feature.

    Another thing they intentionally broke, since it must've had custom code removed, is that widgets used to be there when I brought down the top bar with no notifications. Again, these aren't big, but it's not polished, and all of these could EASILY be a switch, but Apple "knows better" and doesn't want anyone to "think different".

    More reason it's for non techies, it's still "onboarding" me for apps I know how to use.

    I would be willing to bet that if Apple polled people, they'd say they avoid upgrades because of these changes.
    Why are you here? If you dislike it so much, get a different phone. Why are you wasting time blowing up an Apple forum when clearly you dont like Apple.
    09-22-2017 08:32 PM
  22. bobbob1016's Avatar
    Why are you here? If you dislike it so much, get a different phone. Why are you wasting time blowing up an Apple forum when clearly you dont like Apple.
    Because I like some of what they do? I have my 7+ and my S8+. So apparently someone can't criticize things and like other aspects? What is it like in Pleasantville? (get it? that movie where everything was in black and white but then started getting color because of different views).

    Remember the 1984 commercial Apple did? Where they smashed the "think the same" thing? And their slogan was "think different" now I'm being asked to leave for doing so?

    And I'm on one thread on this. Bumped a lot consecutively by me because I can't multi reply from the app, but one thread and articles.

    I am on the Apple forum because I just updated my 7 from iOS 10 to 11, and didn't some changes so I ask Apple people if I can change them back/if they like them. Should I ask Android Central? I paid a lot for this phone, and think I should be able to comment on it changing.

    Feel free to block me, so you can avoid my posts.
    09-22-2017 08:44 PM
  23. Sherry_B's Avatar
    So apparently someone can't criticize things and like other aspects?
    There is a difference between corrective criticism and being aggressively critical. Your tone set the precedent here, and when others feel that type of tone they immediately go on the defensive.
    Tartarus likes this.
    09-23-2017 03:38 PM
  24. Mac Guy's Avatar
    Please tell me I can revert all these nonsense UI changes... I realize these may not be major..


    I feel that the new features and changes are nice.
    Your opinion is just that, an opinion. And I disagree. While some of the new features are nice, others I don't care for, such as the mucking with the WF and BT On/Off in Control Center.

    Or mandating extra steps now when fewer were needed in prior versions. In every iteration of iOS it seems Apple makes some changes that are wholly unnecessary and involve either a loss of functionality or efficiency. SHM. Sometimes an explanation of Apple's logic mitigates a particular decision but it's often left to others such as Rene or Andy to explain the Why. Even then that may not change the fact that something no longer works in a satisfactory way for someone.


    No one is forcing you to use iOS 11.
    There is Android as an alternative.
    Ah, the 'If you don't like it, leave' mentality. God forbid somebody critique the hardware or software.

    Apple has made some changes from time to time that are actually based on customer dissatisfaction and input. To dissuade someone from providing that input is a disservice. This is especially true if someone has invested just about any money in Apple's ecosystem.


    Cool
    Not helpful. Putting out fire with gasoline. Not very diplomatic. But you knew that.


    1st world problems.
    See above.


    Did you submit a feature request?
    This is actually a somewhat helpful response. It might not get anything done, but if enough people see this as an annoyance, Apple could respond, just as they did with the Home Button/Touch ID/Rest to Open situation. It could happen.

    Apple Feedback: https://www.apple.com/feedback/


    I simply can't understand threads like this one. You apparently can find nothing positive to say about Apple, iPhone or iOS so why not switch...
    Well, that's not exactly true, right? Yeah, the guy was a little over the top, but he stated he was venting. Now if this is he modus in every post, I'd agree that maybe another platform would be worth considering.

    He may be frustrated, but at the end of the day his observations are no less valid, whether or not I agree with them. While suggesting a different platform there's no mention of this being his typical modus. Sure, if he's a hater he should move on.

    Otherwise anybody who isn't happy about some aspect of software or hardware of any platform shouldn't feel awkward (to say the least) about posting their opinion. Being reasonable is appreciated by everyone, and shouldn't mean being in agreement.

    Being patronizing and condescending is merely 'handling' and does little to forward genuine discussion.

    Moving forward...
    bobbob1016 and DMP89145 like this.
    09-23-2017 04:04 PM
  25. bobbob1016's Avatar
    Your opinion is just that, an opinion. And I disagree. While some of the new features are nice, others I don't care for, such as the mucking with the WF and BT On/Off in Control Center.

    Or mandating extra steps now when fewer were needed in prior versions. In every iteration of iOS it seems Apple makes some changes that are wholly unnecessary and involve either a loss of functionality or efficiency. SHM. Sometimes an explanation of Apple's logic mitigates a particular decision but it's often left to others such as Rene or Andy to explain the Why. Even then that may not change the fact that something no longer works in a satisfactory way for someone.





    Ah, the 'If you don't like it, leave' mentality. God forbid somebody critique the hardware or software.

    Apple has made some changes from time to time that are actually based on customer dissatisfaction and input. To dissuade someone from providing that input is a disservice. This is especially true if someone has invested just about any money in Apple's ecosystem.




    Not helpful. Putting out fire with gasoline. Not very diplomatic. But you knew that.




    See above.




    This is actually a somewhat helpful response. It might not get anything done, but if enough people see this as an annoyance, Apple could respond, just as they did with the Home Button/Touch ID/Rest to Open situation. It could happen.

    Apple Feedback: https://www.apple.com/feedback/




    Well, that's not exactly true, right? Yeah, the guy was a little over the top, but he stated he was venting. Now if this is he modus in every post, I'd agree that maybe another platform would be worth considering.

    He may be frustrated, but at the end of the day his observations are no less valid, whether or not I agree with them. While suggesting a different platform there's no mention of this being his typical modus. Sure, if he's a hater he should move on.

    Otherwise anybody who isn't happy about some aspect of software or hardware of any platform shouldn't feel awkward (to say the least) about posting their opinion. Being reasonable is appreciated by everyone, and shouldn't mean being in agreement.

    Being patronizing and condescending is merely 'handling' and does little to forward genuine discussion.

    Moving forward...
    This. I like some of the things Apple does over Android. I like how they focus on doing things more privately and not saying "we see you're at this store, here's a coupon" which is beyond creepy. But there's minor things I've seen since this that I don't know why Apple tweaked. I can *understand* the switches, but I would like the option as that seems logical.

    I'm not a fan of the "use Android" line, even though I have both, because most people can't afford to switch after just buying one phone. On top of that, if you bought a car, and the dealership changed the dashboard and frame each oil change, and your favorite blue color and pleather seats were gone, you wouldn't be happy that you just spent $20k on it right?

    The last one I'll throw in here, and I may not have had it clear through my venting, "Is Apple still signing downgrades? If so is it still download IPSW, hold Command click Upgrade in iTunes, select IPSW? Also, I did the upgrade iCloud thing because it didn't seem clear to avoid, is that workable with iOS 10?"
    09-23-2017 04:24 PM
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