Minneapolis Apple store ransacked by looters

[grover5]

I would argue that Police should be held to a higher standard than the general public when it comes to committing violent crimes. They are trained as such in how to handle different situations including, first always, how to deescalate.

Since I’m in the healthcare industry (RN), it would be like asking if mistakes by nurses and doctors is out of control and then saying “not more than the general public”. I should be held to a higher standard because, again, I have been trained and educated on medical procedures, medication use, etc.

I’m not sure if that comparison works to explain my view but....I gave it a try!

To protect and serve. Not to kill and abuse their power.

 

[Quis89]

In one of my previous posts, I said I disagreed with the statement about violence by the police in this country being out of control. To “me”, that is saying their crimes are on par with or have exceeded those committed by non-police.

Your reaction was something to the effect of....this is...wow.

With the mindset I just explained, I asked if you’re saying that violence by police outnumber those by non-police.

Now to your question above, are we limited to thinking one way? Do I have to think like you and others or am I free to think how I wish to think? Can I also have a viewpoint that different from yours or anyone else’s? If not, why? Mr. Floyd was killed by a police officer. Mr. Floyd was killed and he had not committed a crime. Some people are so upset or claim they are upset to the point of lawlessness. Some people (not in this thread) say they have a right to riot and loot to bring about change. I say they do not have the right to riot and loot. Am I aware of black men dying at the hands of police? Sure. Do I like it? No, I do not. Have I seen non-black men die at the hands of police? Sure have. Did I like it? No, I did not.

Now that we’ve got that out the way, admit that you, me and others are not discussing the thread topic which is the Apple Store being looted. Since we’re not talking about the thread topic, then it shouldn’t matter if I compare police crimes to crimes by people who are not police. You didn’t have to respond, but you did.

But literally, nobody argued that violence by police was on par or outnumbered violence perpetuated by non-police. You introduced an argument nobody was making. You keep acting like you’re a victim here being told how and what to think. Nobody is telling you that. What we are saying is that it’s disingenuous for you to inject an argument nobody made. Of course there is more violence committed by non-police. But what does that have to do with the FACT that there is a problem with police brutality in this country? Your argument is essentially like responding to someone complaining about employee theft in a retail store by saying “Well don’t customers steal?”. Ok...yes...BUT that doesn’t negate the fact that we are discussing employee theft and THAT is a problem.

Same thing here. Yes...people commit crimes. But that is an entirely separate point. We aren’t asking you to think like everyone else. We are asking you to focus on the topic of police brutality. If you don’t believe there is an issue, then say that. But you can’t say, “Police brutality isn’t an issue because more people commit crimes”. That’s not how this works.

You’re “All Lives Mattering”ing this conversation and that dialog honestly isn’t helpful to the issue that people are trying to bring forth. It’s disingenuous. You’ve seen black men die at the hands of police and didn’t like it? You’ve seen non-black people die at the hands of the police and didn’t like it? Ok...what have you done to ensure it doesn’t happen again? What initiatives have you supported? So many of you want to jump into these conversations by saying, “I thought we wanted equality for everyone” yet you aren’t doing a single thing to get it. Instead, you’re entering conversations being initiated by oppressed people and saying, “Well what about....”. Rather than saying “What about”...simply go protest for those people you’re asking about. Start a movement. If you aren’t interested in being a part of the one taking place, simply don’t engage at all. It’s not that hard.

Do I agree with the rioting and looting? Nah. I don’t. But you know what I disagree with more? The countless black men and women who have been killed by the hands of police officers for no reason other than improper training and bias. That is the topic. That is the focus of the movement. End that...and you will end the responses to these deaths that you disagree with.

 

[Just_Me_D]

I would argue that Police should be held to a higher standard than the general public when it comes to committing violent crimes. They are trained as such in how to handle different situations including, first always, how to deescalate.

Since I’m in the healthcare industry (RN), it would be like asking if mistakes by nurses and doctors is out of control and then saying “not more than the general public”. I should be held to a higher standard because, again, I have been trained and educated on medical procedures, medication use, etc.

I’m not sure if that comparison works to explain my view but....I gave it a try!

Well stated....

 

[Just_Me_D]

But literally, nobody argued that violence by police was on par or outnumbered violence perpetuated by non-police. You introduced an argument nobody was making. You keep acting like you’re a victim here being told how and what to think. Nobody is telling you that. What we are saying is that it’s disingenuous for you to inject an argument nobody made. Of course there is more violence committed by non-police. But what does that have to do with the FACT that there is a problem with police brutality in this country? Your argument is essentially like responding to someone complaining about employee theft in a retail store by saying “Well don’t customers steal?”. Ok...yes...BUT that doesn’t negate the fact that we are discussing employee theft and THAT is a problem.

Same thing here. Yes...people commit crimes. But that is an entirely separate point. We aren’t asking you to think like everyone else. We are asking you to focus on the topic of police brutality. If you don’t believe there is an issue, then say that. But you can’t say, “Police brutality isn’t an issue because more people commit crimes”. That’s not how this works.

You’re “All Lives Mattering”ing this conversation and that dialog honestly isn’t helpful to the issue that people are trying to bring forth. It’s disingenuous. You’ve seen black men die at the hands of police and didn’t like it? You’ve seen non-black people die at the hands of the police and didn’t like it? Ok...what have you done to ensure it doesn’t happen again? What initiatives have you supported? So many of you want to jump into these conversations by saying, “I thought we wanted equality for everyone” yet you aren’t doing a single thing to get it. Instead, you’re entering conversations being initiated by oppressed people and saying, “Well what about....”. Rather than saying “What about”...simply go protest for those people you’re asking about. Start a movement. If you aren’t interested in being a part of the one taking place, simply don’t engage at all. It’s not that hard.

Do I agree with the rioting and looting? Nah. I don’t. But you know what I disagree with more? The countless black men and women who have been killed by the hands of police officers for no reason other than improper training and bias. That is the topic. That is the focus of the movement. End that...and you will end the responses to these deaths that you disagree with.

Well stated...

 

[Quis89]

I would argue that Police should be held to a higher standard than the general public when it comes to committing violent crimes. They are trained as such in how to handle different situations including, first always, how to deescalate.

Since I’m in the healthcare industry (RN), it would be like asking if mistakes by nurses and doctors is out of control and then saying “not more than the general public”. I should be held to a higher standard because, again, I have been trained and educated on medical procedures, medication use, etc.

I’m not sure if that comparison works to explain my view but....I gave it a try!

Exactly. It is incredibly dangerous to imply police officers and civilians should be equated. It is irresponsible to state crime by police isn’t an issue because regular civilians commit more crime. Of course civilians commit more crime. That is literally the reason we have police.

The crime committed by police SHOULD be zero. If there is even one crime committed by a police officer, that is too many.

Chris Rock said it best. To summarize, his stance was some industries can’t have bad apples. Do you want to be on an airplane piloted by a “bad apple”? Absolutely not. If we can’t hold police to a higher standard than the rest of us, then why do we have them?

 

[anon(50597)]

Chris Rock said it best. To summarize, his stance was some industries can’t have bad apples. Do you want to be on an airplane piloted by a “bad apple”? Absolutely not. If we can’t hold police to a higher standard than the rest of us, then why do we have them?

Well said by Chris. He’s exactly right. When you have people’s lives in your hands; someone’s mother, sister, uncle, you have to be fully mindful of your commitment to serve. If you cannot fulfill this promise, you should chose another profession.

 

[BreakingKayfabe]

Some of you were looking at things from one perspective whereas I was looking at it from another, but apparently since I was not looking at it like some of the others, something is clearly wrong with me. Right? Everybody’s different, but are somehow expected to act the same or think the same.

Not at all. You came in like you usually do in these types of threads being all uppity and acting like you're posing some question that nobody else has thought of so you can feel like you're outthinking the room. Then when someone calls you out on it, there you are with, "wah! was! why can't I have my own viewpoint!" Go ahead, have your viewpoint. Ain't no-one here telling you that you have to think a certain way. Just don't expect every single person to be all proper and tiptoe around you when you're challenged. Grow a sack.

Another word that was invoked in this thread regarding your behavior was 'disingenuous' and I think that is the best way to describe it. I already had that notion of you from my moderation days, which I have evidence of through contradictory statements through mod emails and your own posts from a time when things got a little out of control here a few years ago.

Yes, I have invoked another subject here. See how dumb it looks?

It's funny, after I made my comment to describe what I think you are, I got a couple of PM's from 2 regulars on here who engage in discussion with you telling me how happy they were someone finally said it. So I know I'm not the only one.

Note to those of you who are engaged in a more civil discussion with this guy: I'd like to have the level of patience and courtesy that you all have, but unfortunately people like myself exist for a reason. I just have to outright say it.

 

[Just_Me_D]

Not at all. You came in like you usually do in these types of threads being all uppity and acting like you're posing some question that nobody else has thought of so you can feel like you're outthinking the room. Then when someone calls you out on it, there you are with, "wah! was! why can't I have my own viewpoint!" Go ahead, have your viewpoint. Ain't no-one here telling you that you have to think a certain way. Just don't expect every single person to be all proper and tiptoe around you when you're challenged. Grow a sack.

Another word that was invoked in this thread regarding your behavior was 'disingenuous' and I think that is the best way to describe it. I already had that notion of you from my moderation days, which I have evidence of through contradictory statements through mod emails and your own posts from a time when things got a little out of control here a few years ago.

Yes, I have invoked another subject here. See how dumb it looks?

It's funny, after I made my comment to describe what I think you are, I got a couple of PM's from 2 regulars on here who engage in discussion with you telling me how happy they were someone finally said it. So I know I'm not the only one.

Well stated....

 

[anon(50597)]

Note to those of you who are engaged in a more civil discussion with this guy: I'd like to have the level of patience and courtesy that you all have, but unfortunately people like myself exist for a reason. I just have to outright say it.

Thank you for speaking your mind. I believe it takes different voices, standing for the same effort, to get the message across. We need to use all means to get our message out and finally make much needed change. I appreciate your words.

 

[Golfdriver97]

Posted in a separate thread. Here’s a photo of the Walnut Street Apple Store in Philadelphia. Since the riot and looting there have been photos of people with device home screens showing Apple does indeed have the devices locked and are aware of their location. Whether the photos are shopped or Apple truly knows, it is very possible these devices are not usable. Certainly not the issue to focus on, but worthy of noting.

View attachment 128869
View attachment 128870

Assuming for a moment that the photo of the device is legit, it is pretty cool that Apple is somewhat proactively deterring the use of stolen goods.

 

[Lee_Bo]

Oh you know me. Where there’s controversy, I’ll try to.....um....stimulate the conversation a bit...

I love it. I wish I had HALF of your intellect.

 

[Just_Me_D]

I love it. I wish I had HALF of your intellect.

(Laughing)...You are sick!...Heck, I didn’t even know I was “uppity” until it was brought to my attention........Now I feel downright special...ROTFL

 

[Lee_Bo]

(Laughing)...You are sick!...Heck, I didn’t even know I was “uppity” until it was brought to my attention........Now I feel downright special...ROTFL

Well there are different levels of special.

 

[Just_Me_D]

Well there are different levels of special.

No doubt about that, sir.

 

[grover5]

(Laughing)...You are sick!...Heck, I didn’t even know I was “uppity” until it was brought to my attention........Now I feel downright special...ROTFL

Did you know you were being disingenuous when you introduced the straw man?

 

[Annie_M]

Let’s focus on the issue and not each other. It’s never possible to agree on everything so let’s please agree to disagree and refrain from personal attacks.

 

[anon(50597)]

Let’s focus on the issue and not each other. It’s never possible to agree on everything so let’s please agree to disagree and refrain from personal attacks.

I agree. Let’s focus on the issue, racism.

Looting seems to have lessened, which is good.
The protests are continuing, which is good.
Justice will hopefully be served, which is good.
The military is being turned against American citizens, which is not good.

This could/should be a pivotal time in American history. Policies need to reflect fairness and equality. We are better than what we have shown in the past. The people are speaking up.

Just my 2 cents for the day.

 

[Quis89]

I agree. Let’s focus on the issue, racism.

Looting seems to have lessened, which is good.
The protests are continuing, which is good.
Justice will hopefully be served, which is good.
The military is being turned against American citizens, which is not good.

This could/should be a pivotal time in American history. Policies need to reflect fairness and equality. We are better than what we have shown in the past. The people are speaking up.

Just my 2 cents for the day.

It’s because we have a dunce for a President who has continued to show his inability to display any level of empathy towards those he disagrees with. But we shouldn’t expect much from someone who would send military members to tear gas peaceful protestors to take an awkward picture stern faced holding a bible in front of a church he’s never attended.

You really can’t write these stories anymore. People really elected a clown into the White House.

The place we are as a nation is truly sick.

 

[BrindawithanI]

It’s because we have a dunce for a President who has continued to show his inability to display any level of empathy towards those he disagrees with.

Oh and he’s received SO much empathy from those who disagree with him?

The “peaceful protestors” in MY city, shattered every window in my office building, and burnt down a new, unopened apartment complex being built for low income housing. Brand. New. Did you, by ANY chance notice that the worst hit cities are led by Dems? I’m NOT making this political, but merely stating FACTS. Have you also recognized the fact that those “bad cops” report to police commissioners, who in turn report to the mayors of those very cities? If you want to cast blame, you have to start at the level where the problem perpetuates. If you want “change” you have to start at that same place. I’m sure this post will get me torched versus making some think about what I’ve said and THIS is also part the problem. And don’t spout white privilege my way either. I’ve worked full time since I was 15.5 years old. As an adult, 60+ hours a week to make ends meet. No one gave me a thing. If that makes me privileged, just know that my old @$$ is worn out from all my “privilege”.

 

[Quis89]

Oh and he’s received SO much empathy from those who disagree with him?

The “peaceful protestors” in MY city, shattered every window in my office building, and burnt down a new, unopened apartment complex being built for low income housing. Brand. New. Did you, by ANY chance notice that the worst hit cities are led by Dems? I’m NOT making this political, but merely stating FACTS. Have you also recognized the fact that those “bad cops” report to police commissioners, who in turn report to the mayors of those very cities? If you want to cast blame, you have to start at the level where the problem perpetuates. If you want “change” you have to start at that same place. I’m sure this post will get me torched versus making some think about what I’ve said and THIS is also part the problem. And don’t spout white privilege my way either. I’ve worked full time since I was 15.5 years old. As an adult, 60+ hours a week to make ends meet. No one gave me a thing. If that makes me privileged, just know that my old @$$ is worn out from all my “privilege”.

Oh boy....

1. He's the President of the United States. That necessitates a higher standard of conduct. So playing "whataboutism" by saying "What about the empathy for him" is irrelevant.

2. If you go outside and actually take part in what's going on, you'd easily see there are both peaceful protests and non-peaceful protests. You lumping all protesters into one basket is no different than people saying all cops are bad or all white people are racist or all black people are violent. There is literal evidence that the protesters outside of that church prior to your presidents photo op were peaceful. I'm not sure what city you live in, but I can GUARANTEE that there have been both peaceful protests and non-peaceful ones. In my city, I've been to several of the peaceful ones. Don't discredit the movement and those being peaceful because you want to be ignorant and lump the troublemaking crowd into one group.

3. Your point about the cities hit the worst being ran by Dems is pointless. Of the 50 largest cities in the country, Republicans only control 13 of them. 35 led by Dems and 2 led by Independents. You have no viable data that would point to outcomes being any different under Republicans. Example, Miami is Republican led and DID have destruction from riots. So again...your point is irrelevant and it isn't backed by ANY data. But if you care to actually dive into the data, you should review the racial makeup of republican led cities. In other words, check diversity levels and then we can have a conversation about why you may notice lower levels of unrest in when discussion police brutality and racial discrimination.

4. You saying, "I've worked my whole life" as a rational behind your believed absence of "white privilege" shows you don't actually understand privilege at all. Privilege exists amongst a variety of social groups. Men have male privilege for example. I as a man understand that. The inability of people like you to understand the privileges you hold is what will hold everyone else back. Additionally, you don't sound like someone who cares to understand it so I won't waste my keystrokes attempting to explain it.