Minneapolis Apple store ransacked by looters

[Just_Me_D]

Can anyone here point me out to the claim that anyone made in this thread that “police getting out of hand” actually “outnumber” crimes committed by the general public? I can’t find evidence that anyone made that claim, so don’t understand why anyone is arguing a “claim” that was never made.

Here you go:

........The violence of our police in this country is out of control. This needs to stop and these protests are our only method for accomplishing that.

Grover used the phrase “out of control”. I disagreed with it and still disagree with it. With that being said, if it is “out of control”, “out of hand”, or any other similar phrase, how so in comparison to the crimes committed by non-police officers?

 

[anon(50597)]

Here you go:

Grover used the phrase “out of control”. I disagreed with it and still disagree with it. With that being said, if it is “out of control”, “out of hand”, or any other similar phrase, how so in comparison to the crimes committed by non-police officers?

Isn’t more than none too many? Shouldn’t the bar we set be that people aren’t killed over $20, selling cigarettes, or jogging?

I’m having a hard time understanding how anyone could say we don’t have an issue with race and the killing of innocent people in this country, by police and civilians. We have had too many examples and they are right there in plain sight for anyone to examine and accept if they choose.

 

[BreakingKayfabe]

Here you go:

Grover used the phrase “out of control”. I disagreed with it and still disagree with it. With that being said, if it is “out of control”, “out of hand”, or any other similar phrase, how so in comparison to the crimes committed by non-police officers?

So he did not claim that police crimes outnumber the crimes of those of the general public.

I am, however, is disputing the claim that murders/crimes committed by police is getting out of hand and/or outnumber those committed by the GP.

Mister Williams, you are the one who that started bringing up comparisons to police committing crimes as opposed to those of the general public.

So in this case, who cares how police officer crimes compare to those of the general public? That's not what the discussion here is.

My point is whenever someone makes a point, there is usually one of your kind there to say, "yeah, but", thus, trying to change the conversation to something that isn't even being questioned. It's that old trick in advertising in which you try to shift the conversation to something else when you don't like what's being said.

I think it's terrific that you are of the opinion that police committing these crimes aren't getting out of control. It would just be nice for one of your kind to just stick the opinion without the "yeah, but" to follow.

 

[Just_Me_D]

So he did not claim that police crimes outnumber the crimes of those of the general public.



Mister Williams, you are the one who that started bringing up comparisons to police committing crimes as opposed to those of the general public.

So in this case, who cares how police officer crimes compare to those of the general public? That's not what the discussion here is.

My point is whenever someone makes a point, there is usually one of your kind there to say, "yeah, but", thus, trying to change the conversation to something that isn't even being questioned. It's that old trick in advertising in which you try to shift the conversation to something else when you don't like what's being said.

I think it's terrific that you are of the opinion that police committing these crimes aren't getting out of control. It would just be nice for one of your kind to just stick the opinion without the "yeah, but" to follow.

I cannot dispute anything you just said. With that being said, this is the time when I have to remind everyone that my job is to keep the conversation going and I do that and have always done that by I taking specific statements and replying to them. You should know this by now. That doesn’t mean that I don’t mean what I say because I do, but I reply to the statement/comment and not the whole.

I’m going to do the same thing on the next hotbed topic that comes up in the forums....

 

[BreakingKayfabe]

I’m going to do the same thing on the next hotbed topic that comes up in the forums....

Thank you and have yourself a Merry Christmas.

 

[anon(50597)]

So he did not claim that police crimes outnumber the crimes of those of the general public.



Mister Williams, you are the one who that started bringing up comparisons to police committing crimes as opposed to those of the general public.

So in this case, who cares how police officer crimes compare to those of the general public? That's not what the discussion here is.

My point is whenever someone makes a point, there is usually one of your kind there to say, "yeah, but", thus, trying to change the conversation to something that isn't even being questioned. It's that old trick in advertising in which you try to shift the conversation to something else when you don't like what's being said.

I think it's terrific that you are of the opinion that police committing these crimes aren't getting out of control. It would just be nice for one of your kind to just stick the opinion without the "yeah, but" to follow.

Nothing will change until people are strong enough and willing to speak up. Making excuses has been our answer to difficult topics for far too long. It’s very easy to see when people are unwilling to engage in a meaningful topic.

 

[BreakingKayfabe]

It’s very easy to see when people are unwilling to engage in a meaningful topic.

Most especially because it fits their agenda. It's funny and strange at the same time to see the hills that certain people are wiling to die on.

 

[anon(50597)]

Most especially because it fits their agenda. It's funny and strange at the same time to see the hills that certain people are wiling to die on.

Those of us who think and believe differently just have to climb higher, be heard, and not accept the “norm”. This is an Apple forum, an unlikely place to discuss racism but, why not? We need to discuss it with our friends, family, coworkers and anywhere we can elicit change. Being civil and spreading the truth will keep the conversation alive.

 

[Just_Me_D]

It would be more pleasant to insult each other politely if you must do it at all...

Well stated, but I’m my own man so I can take it. Still, it strengthens the question: How can we all live in harmony when some of us can’t even stand hearing an alternative viewpoint? ....Just sayin’....

 

[Annie_M]

Well stated, but I’m my own man so I can take it. Still, it strengthens the question: How can we all live in harmony when some of us can’t even stand hearing an alternative viewpoint? ....Just sayin’....

Excellent point!

 

[grover5]

Well stated, but I’m my own man so I can take it. Still, it strengthens the question: How can we all live in harmony when some of us can’t even stand hearing an alternative viewpoint? ....Just sayin’....

That’s all good and well but I never mentioned a comparison between the level of police crimes vs the general public. That’s a straw man that you chose to create.

 

[BreakingKayfabe]

Pretends there's an argument that wasn't being made and chooses to label it as an "alternative viewpoint". No wonder why this country is screwed into oblivion.

 

[anon(50597)]

Well stated, but I’m my own man so I can take it. Still, it strengthens the question: How can we all live in harmony when some of us can’t even stand hearing an alternative viewpoint? ....Just sayin’....

I’m all for alternative viewpoints but right now, amongst the continue killing of innocent Americans because of the color of their skin, which we have seen all too often, we need to focus on improving our country. We always forget after a short time. We say we’re going to do something but never do. We go back to our privileged lives and pretend all is good.

Let’s not make this about ourselves and our viewpoints, let’s make it about positive change.

 

[Just_Me_D]

I’m all for alternative viewpoints but right now, amongst the continue killing of innocent Americans because of the color of their skin, which we have seen all too often, we need to focus on improving our country. We always forget after a short time. We say we’re going to do something but never do. We go back to our privileged lives and pretend all is good.

Let’s not make this about ourselves and our viewpoints, let’s make it about positive change.

Thread was never about me until we came to the part about “your kind”. Some of you were looking at things from one perspective whereas I was looking at it from another, but apparently since I was not looking at it like some of the others, something is clearly wrong with me. Right? Everybody’s different, but are somehow expected to act the same or think the same.

Not one time did I speak ill of Mr Floyd. I did, however, state that some people took advantage of the situation to steal under the guise of being angry over the incident. I also stated that I disputed the comment about violence by police getting out of hand.

Lastly, not one time did I speak ill of anyone who replied in this thread, but the same cannot be said of speaking ill of me. Oh and I’m under the impression that we should be outraged at the killing of any innocent person, regardless of the perpetrator or his or her color, and not just in certain situations...so yeah, let’s make this about positive change.

 

[anon(50597)]

Thread was never about me until we came to the part about “your kind”. Some of you were looking at things from one perspective whereas I was looking at it from another, but apparently since I was not looking at it like some of the others, something is clearly wrong with me. Right? Everybody’s different, but are somehow expected to act the same or think the same.

Not one time did I speak ill of Mr Floyd. I did, however, state that some people took advantage of the situation to steal under the guise of being angry over the incident. I also stated that I disputed the comment about violence by police getting out of hand.

Lastly, not one time did I speak ill of anyone who replied in this thread, but the same cannot be said of speaking ill of me. Oh and I’m under the impression that we should be outraged at the killing of any innocent person, regardless of the perpetrator or his or her color, and not just in certain situations...so yeah, let’s make this about positive change.

You seem to be taking this personal. We’re having a discussion about a difficult but necessary topic. It’s really not about your or my perspective, it’s about having an open conversation. If our emotions get involved, as always, we will shut down and nothing will change.

I agree that people are taking advantage of the situation. I watched last night the coverage from Washington D.C. and most of the protestors were very civil, marching down the street letting their voices be heard. It was a small group of individuals, not related to the protestors, who looted stores. Some of them were caught and should be charged as such.

Lastly, we should be outraged at any innocent killing no matter the skin color of the victim. The problem is it is disproportionally happening to certain people. In this day, with technology making it easy to videotape these incidents, we have evidence of exactly that. We should, as a nation and community, stand against it.

I hope you keep commenting in this thread. You are a good person and have always been fair to me. Remember the leaders who have stood up for what is right and were often persecuted for it, even with death. This is easy compared to what they went through.

Have a great night everyone.

 

[Just_Me_D]

You seem to be taking this personal. We’re having a discussion about a difficult but necessary topic. It’s really not about your or my perspective, it’s about having an open conversation. If our emotions get involved, as always, we will shut down and nothing will change.

Then you may need to redirect your statement elsewhere.........I can take it....

I agree that people are taking advantage of the situation. I watched last night the coverage from Washington D.C. and most of the protestors were very civil, marching down the street letting their voices be heard. It was a small group of individuals, not related to the protestors, who looted stores. Some of them were caught and should be charged as such.

No doubt about.

Lastly, we should be outraged at any innocent killing no matter the skin color of the victim.

Yep. No doubt.

The problem is it is disproportionally happening to certain people. In this day, with technology making it easy to videotape these incidents, we have evidence of exactly that. We should, as a nation and community, stand against it.

No doubt about it.

I hope you keep commenting in this thread. You are a good person and have always been fair to me. Remember the leaders who have stood up for what is right and were often persecuted for it, even with death. This is easy compared to what they went through.

Have a great night everyone.

Oh you know me. Where there’s controversy, I’ll try to.....um....stimulate the conversation a bit...

 

[Quis89]

Are you saying crimes/violence perpetrated by police are greater or have become greater in frequency than those that are not?

I'm not sure what you're asking here. But I am saying there is an issue with police brutality in this country and I'm unsure how you can rationally deny this in addition to the proven differences in how people of color are treated by police and the judicial system in comparison to whites.

 

[Quis89]

Here you go:

Grover used the phrase “out of control”. I disagreed with it and still disagree with it. With that being said, if it is “out of control”, “out of hand”, or any other similar phrase, how so in comparison to the crimes committed by non-police officers?

Why are we comparing crimes committed by police to those committed by non-police? Why are you deflecting from the issue we are discussing?

 

[Just_Me_D]

Why are we comparing crimes committed by police to those committed by non-police? Why are you deflecting from the issue we are discussing?

In one of my previous posts, I said I disagreed with the statement about violence by the police in this country being out of control. To “me”, that is saying their crimes are on par with or have exceeded those committed by non-police.

Your reaction was something to the effect of....this is...wow.

With the mindset I just explained, I asked if you’re saying that violence by police outnumber those by non-police.

Now to your question above, are we limited to thinking one way? Do I have to think like you and others or am I free to think how I wish to think? Can I also have a viewpoint that different from yours or anyone else’s? If not, why? Mr. Floyd was killed by a police officer. Mr. Floyd was killed and he had not committed a crime. Some people are so upset or claim they are upset to the point of lawlessness. Some people (not in this thread) say they have a right to riot and loot to bring about change. I say they do not have the right to riot and loot. Am I aware of black men dying at the hands of police? Sure. Do I like it? No, I do not. Have I seen non-black men die at the hands of police? Sure have. Did I like it? No, I did not.

Now that we’ve got that out the way, admit that you, me and others are not discussing the thread topic which is the Apple Store being looted. Since we’re not talking about the thread topic, then it shouldn’t matter if I compare police crimes to crimes by people who are not police. You didn’t have to respond, but you did.

 

[anon(50597)]

I would argue that Police should be held to a higher standard than the general public when it comes to committing violent crimes. They are trained as such in how to handle different situations including, first always, how to deescalate.

Since I’m in the healthcare industry (RN), it would be like asking if mistakes by nurses and doctors is out of control and then saying “not more than the general public”. I should be held to a higher standard because, again, I have been trained and educated on medical procedures, medication use, etc.

I’m not sure if that comparison works to explain my view but....I gave it a try!