1. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    They can change the charge as they investigate more. They charged him with something they felt they could already convict on. The other three officers should be arrested as well. The violence of our police in this country is out of control. This needs to stop and these protests are our only method for accomplishing that.
    The only thing I disagree with is “the violence of police in this country is out of control”. Heck, it’s not even close to being “out of control”. What is indeed out of control are the numerous crimes perpetrated by the general public’s criminal elements on a daily basis throughout this nation. The incidents perpetrated by rogue, inexperienced or cocky police officers are a mere blip on the screen in comparison, in my opinion.

    Again, I am only disagreeing with one statement from your previous post, but I wholeheartedly respect your viewpoint.
    BrindawithanI likes this.
    05-31-2020 01:29 PM
  2. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    They can change the charge as they investigate more. They charged him with something they felt they could already convict on. The other three officers should be arrested as well.
    Great point. However, the cynic in me says that he will in some fashion get off, if not totally absolved of this somehow. It sucks, but it's the pre-conceived notion I get whenever something like this happens because the past 20 years has conditioned to me believe so.
    05-31-2020 01:42 PM
  3. TgeekB's Avatar
    The only thing I disagree with is “the violence of police in this country is out of control”. Heck, it’s not even close to being “out of control”. What is indeed out of control are the numerous crimes perpetrated by the general public’s criminal elements on a daily basis throughout this nation. The incidents perpetrated by rogue, inexperienced or cocky police officers are a mere blip on the screen in comparison, in my opinion.

    Again, I am only disagreeing with one statement from your previous post, but I wholeheartedly respect your viewpoint.
    Let’s remember, the victim was not involved in a violent crime. We have to stop ignoring the difference in how people are treated in this country based on the color of their skin. Not only by some police officers but everyone. I am not, in any way, making a statement against police officers.
    05-31-2020 03:04 PM
  4. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Let’s remember, the victim was not involved in a violent crime.
    There’s nothing in any of my above posts that even hints at the victim doing anything wrong. In fact, I made it clear that if anyone should be upset, it’s the family. With that being said, my sole dispute with your previous post is in regard to the police violence being out of control. Your mention of police was in general and so was my reply.
    We have to stop ignoring the difference in how people are treated in this country based on the color of their skin. Not only by some police officers but everyone. I am not, in any way, making a statement against police officers.
    What we have to do and what we will do are two different things. “Generally speaking”, if we all have likes and dislikes then there will be times when we pass judgement on someone, whether we intended to or not. As a nation, we are striving to be better and no one can dispute that great strives have been made. That’s not to say more work doesn’t need to be done because it does, but isn’t that what “striving” means?
    05-31-2020 03:49 PM
  5. TgeekB's Avatar
    There’s nothing in any of my above posts that even hints at the victim doing anything wrong. In fact, I made it clear that if anyone should be upset, it’s the family. With that being said, my sole dispute with your previous post is in regard to the police violence being out of control. Your mention of police was in general and so was my reply.
    What we have to do and what we will do are two different things. “Generally speaking”, if we all have likes and dislikes then there will be times when we pass judgement on someone, whether we intended to or not. As a nation, we are striving to be better and no one can dispute that great strives have been made. That’s not to say more work doesn’t need to be done because it does, but isn’t that what “striving” means?
    You are replying to the wrong person. I never said police violence was out of control. There have been, however, many examples of black individuals being killed while in police custody. There, rarely, is justice. We cannot remain blind to reality, in my opinion.

    As far as us, as a nation, making great strides I would argue that is subjective. If we have our eyes open and are aware of what we see, we realize little has changed. We still see white men in power get off when doing crimes. We see white men on the steps of state Capitols with AK-47’s and that is ok. We will never improve until we are honest and decide that we are stronger together, when we treat everyone as equal and then, only then, will we see our country’s true greatness.
    grover5 likes this.
    05-31-2020 04:28 PM
  6. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    You are replying to the wrong person. I never said police violence was out of control.
    You’re right. I’m sorry.
    There have been, however, many examples of black individuals being killed while in police custody.
    No doubt about it.
    There, rarely, is justice. We cannot remain blind to reality, in my opinion.
    Rarely is not never and on some occasions, the officer was found not guilty because all of the facts were present, unlike on the news whose interest was in viewership. Still, I can’t ignore the ones that indeed got away with murder, especially pre-1970.

    As far as us, as a nation, making great strides I would argue that is subjective. If we have our eyes open and are aware of what we see, we realize little has changed.
    I’ll be 57 years old in a matter of days and I can assure you a lot has changed., but my life experiences and the things I’ve seen can be different from yours so I can’t dispute that little has changed from your perspective.
    We still see white men in power get off when doing crimes. We see white men on the steps of state Capitols with AK-47’s and that is ok. We will never improve until we are honest and decide that we are stronger together, when we treat everyone as equal and then, only then, will we see our country’s true greatness.
    I’ve seen men and woman in power, regardless of color, get away with or get what amounts to be a slap on the wrist. We see people rioting and looting and clearly folks think that’s okay. I’m not naive to think that at some point we are all going to live in complete harmony. That’s just not gonna happen. Generally speaking, we treat those with fame and influence far better than we do to those who are broke and homeless. Those who have kids pick and choose who they allow their kids to hang with so how are we going to start treating everyone as equals?
    05-31-2020 04:48 PM
  7. TgeekB's Avatar
    You’re right. I’m sorry. No doubt about it. Rarely is not never and on some occasions, the officer was found not guilty because all of the facts were present, unlike on the news whose interest was in viewership. Still, I can’t ignore the ones that indeed got away with murder, especially pre-1970.

    I’ll be 57 years old in a matter of days and I can assure you a lot has changed., but my life experiences and the things I’ve seen can be different from yours so I can’t dispute that little has changed from your perspective. I’ve seen men and woman in power, regardless of color, get away with or get what amounts to be a slap on the wrist. We see people rioting and looting and clearly folks think that’s okay. I’m not naive to think that at some point we are all going to live in complete harmony. That’s just not gonna happen. Generally speaking, we treat those with fame and influence far better than we do to those who are broke and homeless. Those who have kids pick and choose who they allow their kids to hang with so how are we going to start treating everyone as equals?
    I’ll leave it at that. I’m 58, so we’re very close in age but have a different perspective on racism. That’s ok as long as we keep the conversation open and civil.

    Now I’m off to work to rid the world of COVID-19.
    Be safe everyone!
    Just_Me_D and grover5 like this.
    05-31-2020 05:12 PM
  8. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    I’ll leave it at that. I’m 58, so we’re very close in age but have a different perspective on racism. That’s ok as long as we keep the conversation open and civil.

    Now I’m off to work to rid the world of COVID-19.
    Be safe everyone!
    It was great chatting with you, and I hope you have a safe and pleasant work-shift. Take care.
    TgeekB, grover5 and Annie_M like this.
    05-31-2020 06:04 PM
  9. Al Paca's Avatar
    Posted in a separate thread. Here’s a photo of the Walnut Street Apple Store in Philadelphia. Since the riot and looting there have been photos of people with device home screens showing Apple does indeed have the devices locked and are aware of their location. Whether the photos are shopped or Apple truly knows, it is very possible these devices are not usable. Certainly not the issue to focus on, but worthy of noting.

    Minneapolis Apple store ransacked by looters-adjustments.jpg
    Minneapolis Apple store ransacked by looters-adjustments.jpg
    05-31-2020 09:31 PM
  10. Quis89's Avatar
    The only thing I disagree with is “the violence of police in this country is out of control”. Heck, it’s not even close to being “out of control”. What is indeed out of control are the numerous crimes perpetrated by the general public’s criminal elements on a daily basis throughout this nation. The incidents perpetrated by rogue, inexperienced or cocky police officers are a mere blip on the screen in comparison, in my opinion.

    Again, I am only disagreeing with one statement from your previous post, but I wholeheartedly respect your viewpoint.
    This is...wow...
    05-31-2020 11:50 PM
  11. TgeekB's Avatar
    06-01-2020 02:52 AM
  12. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    This is...wow...
    Are you saying crimes/violence perpetrated by police are greater or have become greater in frequency than those that are not?
    Last edited by Just_Me_D; 06-01-2020 at 07:54 AM.
    06-01-2020 05:45 AM
  13. grover5's Avatar
    Are you saying crimes/violence perpetrated by police are greater or have become greater in frequency than those that are not?
    Is that your bar? No offense, but open your eyes.
    BreakingKayfabe likes this.
    06-01-2020 10:11 AM
  14. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Is that your bar? No offense, but open your eyes.
    No offense taken, and my eyes are open. Please show me the stats that indicate crimes/murders committed by police higher or even close to being higher than those committed by the general public.

    For the record, I am not defending the police, especially in regard to the incident involving Mr. Floyd. I want to make that perfectly clear.

    I am, however, is disputing the claim that murders/crimes committed by police is getting out of hand and/or outnumber those committed by the GP.
    06-01-2020 10:43 AM
  15. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    Can anyone here point me out to the claim that anyone made in this thread that “police getting out of hand” actually “outnumber” crimes committed by the general public? I can’t find evidence that anyone made that claim, so don’t understand why anyone is arguing a “claim” that was never made.
    TgeekB likes this.
    06-01-2020 10:49 AM
  16. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Can anyone here point me out to the claim that anyone made in this thread that “police getting out of hand” actually “outnumber” crimes committed by the general public? I can’t find evidence that anyone made that claim, so don’t understand why anyone is arguing a “claim” that was never made.
    Here you go:
    ........The violence of our police in this country is out of control. This needs to stop and these protests are our only method for accomplishing that.
    Grover used the phrase “out of control”. I disagreed with it and still disagree with it. With that being said, if it is “out of control”, “out of hand”, or any other similar phrase, how so in comparison to the crimes committed by non-police officers?
    06-01-2020 02:56 PM
  17. TgeekB's Avatar
    Here you go:

    Grover used the phrase “out of control”. I disagreed with it and still disagree with it. With that being said, if it is “out of control”, “out of hand”, or any other similar phrase, how so in comparison to the crimes committed by non-police officers?
    Isn’t more than none too many? Shouldn’t the bar we set be that people aren’t killed over $20, selling cigarettes, or jogging?

    I’m having a hard time understanding how anyone could say we don’t have an issue with race and the killing of innocent people in this country, by police and civilians. We have had too many examples and they are right there in plain sight for anyone to examine and accept if they choose.
    06-01-2020 03:05 PM
  18. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    Here you go:

    Grover used the phrase “out of control”. I disagreed with it and still disagree with it. With that being said, if it is “out of control”, “out of hand”, or any other similar phrase, how so in comparison to the crimes committed by non-police officers?
    So he did not claim that police crimes outnumber the crimes of those of the general public.

    I am, however, is disputing the claim that murders/crimes committed by police is getting out of hand and/or outnumber those committed by the GP.
    Mister Williams, you are the one who that started bringing up comparisons to police committing crimes as opposed to those of the general public.

    So in this case, who cares how police officer crimes compare to those of the general public? That's not what the discussion here is.

    My point is whenever someone makes a point, there is usually one of your kind there to say, "yeah, but", thus, trying to change the conversation to something that isn't even being questioned. It's that old trick in advertising in which you try to shift the conversation to something else when you don't like what's being said.

    I think it's terrific that you are of the opinion that police committing these crimes aren't getting out of control. It would just be nice for one of your kind to just stick the opinion without the "yeah, but" to follow.
    TgeekB likes this.
    06-01-2020 03:07 PM
  19. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    So he did not claim that police crimes outnumber the crimes of those of the general public.



    Mister Williams, you are the one who that started bringing up comparisons to police committing crimes as opposed to those of the general public.

    So in this case, who cares how police officer crimes compare to those of the general public? That's not what the discussion here is.

    My point is whenever someone makes a point, there is usually one of your kind there to say, "yeah, but", thus, trying to change the conversation to something that isn't even being questioned. It's that old trick in advertising in which you try to shift the conversation to something else when you don't like what's being said.

    I think it's terrific that you are of the opinion that police committing these crimes aren't getting out of control. It would just be nice for one of your kind to just stick the opinion without the "yeah, but" to follow.
    I cannot dispute anything you just said. With that being said, this is the time when I have to remind everyone that my job is to keep the conversation going and I do that and have always done that by I taking specific statements and replying to them. You should know this by now. That doesn’t mean that I don’t mean what I say because I do, but I reply to the statement/comment and not the whole.

    I’m going to do the same thing on the next hotbed topic that comes up in the forums....
    Annie_M likes this.
    06-01-2020 03:33 PM
  20. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    I’m going to do the same thing on the next hotbed topic that comes up in the forums....
    Thank you and have yourself a Merry Christmas.
    Just_Me_D likes this.
    06-01-2020 03:35 PM
  21. TgeekB's Avatar
    So he did not claim that police crimes outnumber the crimes of those of the general public.



    Mister Williams, you are the one who that started bringing up comparisons to police committing crimes as opposed to those of the general public.

    So in this case, who cares how police officer crimes compare to those of the general public? That's not what the discussion here is.

    My point is whenever someone makes a point, there is usually one of your kind there to say, "yeah, but", thus, trying to change the conversation to something that isn't even being questioned. It's that old trick in advertising in which you try to shift the conversation to something else when you don't like what's being said.

    I think it's terrific that you are of the opinion that police committing these crimes aren't getting out of control. It would just be nice for one of your kind to just stick the opinion without the "yeah, but" to follow.
    Nothing will change until people are strong enough and willing to speak up. Making excuses has been our answer to difficult topics for far too long. It’s very easy to see when people are unwilling to engage in a meaningful topic.
    grover5 and BreakingKayfabe like this.
    06-01-2020 03:38 PM
  22. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    It’s very easy to see when people are unwilling to engage in a meaningful topic.
    Most especially because it fits their agenda. It's funny and strange at the same time to see the hills that certain people are wiling to die on.
    TgeekB likes this.
    06-01-2020 03:47 PM
  23. TgeekB's Avatar
    Most especially because it fits their agenda. It's funny and strange at the same time to see the hills that certain people are wiling to die on.
    Those of us who think and believe differently just have to climb higher, be heard, and not accept the “norm”. This is an Apple forum, an unlikely place to discuss racism but, why not? We need to discuss it with our friends, family, coworkers and anywhere we can elicit change. Being civil and spreading the truth will keep the conversation alive.
    06-01-2020 04:11 PM
  24. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    It would be more pleasant to insult each other politely if you must do it at all...
    Well stated, but I’m my own man so I can take it. Still, it strengthens the question: How can we all live in harmony when some of us can’t even stand hearing an alternative viewpoint? ....Just sayin’....
    06-02-2020 10:15 AM
  25. Annie_M's Avatar
    Well stated, but I’m my own man so I can take it. Still, it strengthens the question: How can we all live in harmony when some of us can’t even stand hearing an alternative viewpoint? ....Just sayin’....
    Excellent point!
    06-02-2020 10:18 AM
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